Am I emotionally unavailable or smart?

[Gb85]

Brief relationship history: a closed-off alpha male who never even told me he loved me because “I’m barely even able to tell my mom “; an ex husband who was a self proclaimed workaholic and looked great on paper but never really felt present (and later told me he didn’t realize marriage required him to really spend time with the person); a self-proclaimed sociopath who is still married on the other coast but voluntarily left his wife & child to be “free” and “selfish.” 
if a guy seems too nice / too interested then it’s automatically a turnoff. I mean the kind where it’s such a hard stop, I’d be forcing myself to do anything sexually and just want to flee. If I decide the guy is desperate or likes me too much, I’m so turned off it’s like the person is the wrong gender for me sexually.

most recent example: thought the guy was hot, also nice and successful, great first date. Second date he offers to come over and do my yard work, which seems desperate but I’m open. 

Manly/sweet, I tell myself. He ends up gushing about how he must be dreaming, telling me he’s never been in 1 relationship, calling me Snookums and mentioning his work holiday party. I refuse to do more than kiss him. The next day he takes me to church, I try to enjoy his company and conversation and remind myself he is cute. For the next date, he wants to take my daughter (the weekend I have her) to church and then take us out to breakfast! I am creeped out thinking why would he want to do all this and finding him desperate. My concern is if I can only get turned on by harder to get, more alpha male, less totally available men, then I may never find a good relationship. But there has to be a balance right? And I cannot force myself to have sex w someone to whom I’m not attracted,

[Alpacalia]

It's good that you're being cautious.

Offering to do yard work at your house and wanting to meet children and excessive use of pet names after one meeting should raise red flags for you.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Gb85]

Thank you for reading. I appreciate this. I have become so comfortable on my own & independent that I really have zero desperation about “having someone,” esp because I feel fear of being alone caused me to settle in past. You’re right I should trust my instincts w this guy, who also told me he “cried” after he didn’t get to see me the other night (I had my daughter and bowed out gracefully). My concern is whether I’ll eliminate any reasonable nice guy though bc I can’t “feel attracted.” With that said, I felt I was doing that with another guy I’ve been dating recently, but after he went on vacation w friends and stayed in daily communication but was cool and doing his own thing and didn’t seem desperate (has made sure to secure plans w me upon his return but not like, the day he gets back), my attraction is growing.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Gb85
Typo

[basil67]

I've only ever been attracted to good and kind men, but this new guy would set off all my alarms   It's all too fast and too gushy....I mean, he barely knows you.   And he shouldn't even be getting to know your daughter until you're sure he'll be a long term fixture in your life.  

[Gb85]

Thanks basil67, that’s why I politely bowed out last time- did NOT want my young daughter involved in me dating around. But then I really freaked when he said he “cried” over not seeing me… then he initiated convo about how my day was going which I responded to for a bit, then after a few hours of texts going unanswered he texts AGAIN asking about church and breakfast with my daughter in morning!!! There were other things I didn’t like, such as asking “oh is this front door just a keypad entry” or “can I look at” this invoice on my counter. The sociopath ex I mentioned actually did stalk me- hid and watched me leave restaurants on dates, Would call me furious and admit He was watching me, but now he gaslights and says “you psycho, I’ve never stalked you” 

[basil67]

26 minutes ago, Gb85 said:

But then I really freaked when he said he “cried” over not seeing me… then he initiated convo about how my day was going which I responded to for a bit, then after a few hours of texts going unanswered he texts AGAIN asking about church and breakfast with my daughter in morning!!! There were other things I didn’t like, such as asking “oh is this front door just a keypad entry” or “can I look at” this invoice on my counter.

Oh no no no no.  Give this guy a wide berth.  

Have you ended it with him yet?  If not, he sounds like the kind of guy you'd need to block after delivering the news

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, Gb85 said:

Thank you for reading. I appreciate this. I have become so comfortable on my own & independent that I really have zero desperation about “having someone,” esp because I feel fear of being alone caused me to settle in past. You’re right I should trust my instincts w this guy, who also told me he “cried” after he didn’t get to see me the other night (I had my daughter and bowed out gracefully). My concern is whether I’ll eliminate any reasonable nice guy though bc I can’t “feel attracted.” With that said, I felt I was doing that with another guy I’ve been dating recently, but after he went on vacation w friends and stayed in daily communication but was cool and doing his own thing and didn’t seem desperate (has made sure to secure plans w me upon his return but not like, the day he gets back), my attraction is growing.

These aren't rash behaviors for a man that you met once.

Either him telling you he cried after not seeing you is either joking or he's a control-freak.

Run forest, run.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Alpacalia

[ExpatInItaly]

Get rid of this new guy. 

He doesn't sound particularly stable. 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Gb85 said:

 he texts AGAIN asking about church and breakfast with my daughter in morning!!

Unfortunately this seems like too much too soon. It's creepy he wants your child involved this early on. Add to this that you're not even attracted to him.

Kindly and diplomatically tell him you're not a match. Don't just ghost or ignore. Speak up and put an end to it.

How is your co-parenting relationship with your child's father?  Is there residual stress and conflict?

If you are fine being alone there's no reason to settle for men you find too saccharine, intrusive and unattractive.

When you are ready to date, get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting men. Cut your losses early on if there's no chemistry. 

Also consider joining some groups and clubs, volunteering, talking some classes and courses and broadening your social horizons and getting to know men this way as well.

[glows]

Way too full on. Listen to your gut please. Goodbye and hire a gardener. Thank him and slowly back away. No more yardwork needed. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Well based on your background sentences, you're attracted to destructive, unavailable, toxic partners. If that's your strong and natural attraction, then you don't fix that by randomly dating someone who's very different. There is a lot of middle ground between the latest guy and the toxic folks you mention. 

You gotta explore that vast middle ground. 

[Ami1uwant]

this guy is too fast.  You're doing things that is too early in a realationship

 

you have a bad picker.  You seem attracted to guys that are unavailable who make you chase. If you get a genuine good guy you are pulling away.

[mark clemson]

21 hours ago, Gb85 said:

 My concern is if I can only get turned on by harder to get, more alpha male, less totally available men, then I may never find a good relationship. But there has to be a balance right?

Correct. Keep looking.

If you're concerned that you push away nicer men, maybe look into "attachment styles" and see if you think that has anything to do with your tendencies. However, yes this latest guy you describe was "too nice" and it's almost certainly a red flag.

Edited November 13, 2022 by mark clemson

[Gb85]

Thank you all. Yes I do like the toxic types, with some uncertainty which I translate into excitement, wanting to feel challenged/like I have to work a bit. The issue is (as I found w the sociopath), if I feel this way then it’s me wisely recognizing that the guy is a poor choice of a partner. In fact the sociopath would do things like try to tell me lies about this woman he’s known for 10 years/ they reconnected and now they’re making all kinds of rendezvous plans & talking every day (while he remains married to someone else too)… then I figure out that the woman doesn’t exist, she’s an actress in another country whose photos he stole, and even if he had been catfished he clearly lied to me about the 10 years etc/was just shoving her in my face to get a reaction and upset me: but after all of this did I lose my attraction to him? Of course not.

[Weezy1973]

@Gb85 So this particular guy is way too invested too early. And he doesn’t seem particularly stable. So ending it with him is probably for the best. 
 

As far as your emotional unavailability- I’ll tell you about my wife’s friend. She grew up in a rather toxic household, and was also the victim of childhood sexual abuse. She finds herself very attracted to unavailable men. Men that are already married. Men that are alcoholics. Men that are 40 years older than her. Just basically men that won’t make good lifelong partners. But she also want a family and kids, and knows that the types of men that would make good husbands and fathers aren’t the kinds of men she’s attracted to. So what’s the answer? For her, there hasn’t been one. She’s now in her mid30s still hoping for some magical combo of intense attraction with a stable guy. And it’s just not happening. So my advice would be this - if you know you want to have more kids, you’re going to have to settle for a man that you’re not extremely attracted to. If you don’t want more kids, then really it doesn’t matter much. Date whoever you want. Be smart about not introducing them to your kids. As long as you keep your dating life separate from your kids, have at it.

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Gb85 said:

In fact the sociopath would do things like try to tell me lies about this woman he’s known for 10 years/ they reconnected and now they’re making all kinds of rendezvous plans & talking every day (while he remains married to someone else too)… then I figure out that the woman doesn’t exist, she’s an actress in another country whose photos he stole, and even if he had been catfished he clearly lied to me about the 10 years etc/was just shoving her in my face to get a reaction and upset me: but after all of this did I lose my attraction to him? Of course not.

Have you thought about therapy?

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Have you thought about therapy?

Indeed, because there is world of men in between the sociopathic alpha male types and the overly clingy, crying, I want to meet your daughter and take her to church types. A whole world of really wonderful, kind, and sweet men who are looking for a partner…

[Gb85]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

@Gb85 So this particular guy is way too invested too early. And he doesn’t seem particularly stable. So ending it with him is probably for the best. 
 

As far as your emotional unavailability- I’ll tell you about my wife’s friend. She grew up in a rather toxic household, and was also the victim of childhood sexual abuse. She finds herself very attracted to unavailable men. Men that are already married. Men that are alcoholics. Men that are 40 years older than her. Just basically men that won’t make good lifelong partners. But she also want a family and kids, and knows that the types of men that would make good husbands and fathers aren’t the kinds of men she’s attracted to. So what’s the answer? For her, there hasn’t been one. She’s now in her mid30s still hoping for some magical combo of intense attraction with a stable guy. And it’s just not happening. So my advice would be this - if you know you want to have more kids, you’re going to have to settle for a man that you’re not extremely attracted to. If you don’t want more kids, then really it doesn’t matter much. Date whoever you want. Be smart about not introducing them to your kids. As long as you keep your dating life separate from your kids, have at it.

I want another child but would really like to have one on my own, after my experience with divorce/shared custody (or before the formal divorce, where my ex just felt like dead weight, talking about how he just had to take a job 2 hours away instead of a totally comparable one here and “would come back to see you and the baby on weekends.”

oh, I was with my high school sweetheart for almost a decade and he was mentally abusive (controlling, suspicious when I’d never given him any reason, telling me I was disgusting for eating when BMI 17, wishing I weren’t in grad school so I’d need him more) and later physically so. BUt I don’t think I’m really scarred from that 

[glows]

6 hours ago, Gb85 said:

Thank you all. Yes I do like the toxic types, with some uncertainty which I translate into excitement, wanting to feel challenged/like I have to work a bit. The issue is (as I found w the sociopath), if I feel this way then it’s me wisely recognizing that the guy is a poor choice of a partner. In fact the sociopath would do things like try to tell me lies about this woman he’s known for 10 years/ they reconnected and now they’re making all kinds of rendezvous plans & talking every day (while he remains married to someone else too)… then I figure out that the woman doesn’t exist, she’s an actress in another country whose photos he stole, and even if he had been catfished he clearly lied to me about the 10 years etc/was just shoving her in my face to get a reaction and upset me: but after all of this did I lose my attraction to him? Of course not.

You can be attracted but also do nothing and stop feeding that idea that he is so great and exciting. You know he’s unstable and deceiving so readjust your thoughts. You may surprise yourself how quickly that attraction fades after looking at something/someone exactly as they are.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Gb85 said:

 some uncertainty which I translate into excitement, wanting to feel challenged/like I have to work a bit. 

You can do all this in productive ways rather than self-defeating and injurious ways.

Challenge yourself with sports, classes, courses, etc. Take up things that might satisfying your need for adrenaline rushes and problem solving.

[stillafool]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:30 PM, Gb85 said:

My concern is if I can only get turned on by harder to get, more alpha male, less totally available men, then I may never find a good relationship.

Alpha males don't play hard to get, they are hard to get; but they go after the woman they want and are good husbands and fathers.

[smackie9]

The guys that bend over backwards for you can be the most dangerous. They proclaim to the a good guy, but in reality they can be manipulative jerks. The nice things they do for you are used later as something you owe them. They can turn aggressive/jealous/crazy when they don't feel things are not reciprocated. This guy was starting to use emotional blackmail on you when he said he "cried...." That's a big red flag not to get involved. Narcissists/psychopaths come is all shapes and forms. One thing is clear, they are con artists. They know how to put on an act/charm that works real well on women's emotions. You have been duped over the years. Not all good strong outgoing men are bad. You just need to learn how to tell the difference.

[NuevoYorko]

I don't think that your issues are based upon being either "emotionally unavailable" OR "smart." 

You have very unrealistic (to the point of fanciful)  and self destructive approaches to relationships.   Ideally you will work on these things in depth before you venture into the "relationship" fray again.