Coping mechanisms

[ZA Dater]

Part of this is me venting and part of it is me looking to the experiences of others to try and maybe do some of the things which made them feel better.

I tried to repair my first relationship, she simply is not prepared to give me another chance, basically I have been put in the friend zone now. It would be true to say I am not the worlds most emotional person, I am really hurting now, really, really hurting and there is nobody around me who I can talk to so my only real outlet is here. My apologies in advance.

How do I feel, defeated, hopeless and useless in varying orders but also a failure. This was the first time I had a relationship  after looking for so many years, I did not know how to handle it and I tried to do it as best I could, worse than this I really wanted to make this work but I did not know how. All these things came back to bite me and bite me hard. She knew I had no experience, I brought her into my world, I was about to introduce her to my parents but apparently I did not do this fast enough and maybe she is right.

My question to the wise people here is how do you cope with those wide ranging emotions, do you try occupy your time, I think of her often, do you go about life as friends and to be really honest I know I wont find anyone again, please, please I beg of those who are about to type "but you will" to please NOT do so because I know the issues I have and they all combine to create package which is very very unattractive.

Do you do hobbies, go for long walks, work out, how do you try repair yourself bearing in mind I also feel high levels of disappointment. It took me 25 years to find someone I like and who I thought did not see my inexperience as a total deal breaker, how do I try work past that level of disappointment.

Today I tried to do something I really like but even that did not make me feel a lot better, I went for a walk on my own, really pretty trail but again I just felt empty. I spent so much of my life on my own, to have someone and now not have that anymore, it really hurts. 

Its a terrible feeling that something cant be mended , cant be fixed and if anyone can give me any advice how to even slightly diminish that feeling and the others I would be highly appreciative. 

[basil67]

Yeah, heartbreak hurts like hell and there's no getting around it.  And the pain truly is physical.   

Like any other form of grief, we have to process the feelings to be able to move past them.  I've put a link for you below which has really solid advice (apologies for not being able to provide a gender neutral link).   

When allowing myself to feel the pain, I found that heartbreak songs were great.  You're listening to someone who really gets everything you feel.  I'm about to show my age, but I remember Roxette's song It Must Have Been Love worked for a really good wallow.   Or if you're bitter, perhaps Alanis Morrisette will do the trick.   Hit Google for some suggestions.

In the link below, there's a lot of scientific explanation as to what's happening and how to process it.  But there's one suggestion that you've been failing at big time - and it's really holding you back: 10. Don’t internalize the breakup.   In the aftermath of a difficult split, Dr. Porter says, avoid thinking, I’m not good enough—there’s something wrong with me. Instead, situate the problem in the relationship (if not in your partner), he says.  Despite everything I've said to you, it appears you're still determined to blame yourself for it going wrong.  But the fact is, she didn't tell you what she needed and you're not a mind reader.  NOT HAVING HER NEEDS MET WAS ENTIRELY HER FAULT.   I don't know why you've been so determined to blame yourself - perhaps it's the habit of a lifetime - but it's doing you no good whatsoever.  

Please read this link.  Then Google the hell out of heartbreak just as you would to understand any other ailment.

https://www.glamour.com/story/how-to-get-over-a-broken-heart

 

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yeah, heartbreak hurts like hell and there's no getting around it.  And the pain truly is physical.   

Like any other form of grief, we have to process the feelings to be able to move past them.  I've put a link for you below which has really solid advice (apologies for not being able to provide a gender neutral link).   

When allowing myself to feel the pain, I found that heartbreak songs were great.  You're listening to someone who really gets everything you feel.  I'm about to show my age, but I remember Roxette's song It Must Have Been Love worked for a really good wallow.   Or if you're bitter, perhaps Alanis Morrisette will do the trick.   Hit Google for some suggestions.

In the link below, there's a lot of scientific explanation as to what's happening and how to process it.  But there's one suggestion that you've been failing at big time - and it's really holding you back: 10. Don’t internalize the breakup.   In the aftermath of a difficult split, Dr. Porter says, avoid thinking, I’m not good enough—there’s something wrong with me. Instead, situate the problem in the relationship (if not in your partner), he says.  Despite everything I've said to you, it appears you're still determined to blame yourself for it going wrong.  But the fact is, she didn't tell you what she needed and you're not a mind reader.  NOT HAVING HER NEEDS MET WAS ENTIRELY HER FAULT.   I don't know why you've been so determined to blame yourself - perhaps it's the habit of a lifetime - but it's doing you no good whatsoever.  

Please read this link.  Then Google the hell out of heartbreak just as you would to understand any other ailment.

https://www.glamour.com/story/how-to-get-over-a-broken-heart

 

Thanks that was a really good read. It's very hard for me to not want to try fix things but she simply does not appear to want to try. Yes, I take the bold to heart but there were also lots of things I wanted to say and do but didn't.

At the moment I am hating the fact I won't find this again because it's great to live in a fantasy world but the real world is somewhat different, with her I found a unicorn.

[Weezy1973]

For me, what worked was going cold turkey, so not staying friends. The times I tried to stay friends with an ex always prolonged the process of disconnecting, and the pain. Clean break. And then let time do its things. The thoughts about the ex will be almost obsessive at the beginning of the breakup, but as time goes on you’ll think about her less and less. A year from now she’ll be a memory. As long as you stick to no contact.

[ZA Dater]

30 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

For me, what worked was going cold turkey, so not staying friends. The times I tried to stay friends with an ex always prolonged the process of disconnecting, and the pain. Clean break. And then let time do its things. The thoughts about the ex will be almost obsessive at the beginning of the breakup, but as time goes on you’ll think about her less and less. A year from now she’ll be a memory. As long as you stick to no contact.

Yeah I read the excellent no contact guide and there is a lot of sense to that. It's just going to be extremely difficult. 

I went for a long cycle this morning to try clear my mind, didn't really work. There is a lot to try unpack in terms of thoughts, regrets, things not said, things thought and not done.

Added to all the above I just feel really stupid. I'll say this I just messed it up and I have to just live with that. Everyone around me was amazed the most useless dating guy of all found someone so great. Yet for all that I simply had neither the experience not the intelligence to see how great it was.

[basil67]

On 11/20/2022 at 5:23 PM, ZA Dater said:

Thanks that was a really good read. It's very hard for me to not want to try fix things but she simply does not appear to want to try. Yes, I take the bold to heart but there were also lots of things I wanted to say and do but didn't.

Most relationships end because of faults on both people's parts.  Yes, in this case, there are the things you wanted but were slow to be comfortable with...but I bet that if she'd actually communicated these issues to you, then you would have instantly done what is needed.  

And for what it's worth, exercise doesn't clear my mind either.  It just gives me more time to think 😖

Edited November 22, 2022 by basil67

[OKtoday]

Exercise really helped me.

instead of sitting on the couch all bummed, I’d get out and go for walks, listening to music or audibles on the best relationships, etc. I was determined to learn more, improve and exhaust myself  so I could sleep well :).

I ended up in great shape and it usually shifted some of my thoughts. It’s been about 2 1/2 years now. I still walk  close to 5 miles every day. That time really changed my life and gave me a new routine that I love. There is something about exercising that puts you back in control.

I have many playlists that I revisit here and there and the songs I chose during that journey remind me of where I was and then move to more upbeat, happy songs as I progressed. I somehow landed in a very healthy, well balanced, joyful state.

[John Glasby]

Reading your story, I can feel your pain, and I'm truly sorry, especially that you have such poor self-esteem about the whole thing. But let me offer this one thing that I think is kind of an eternal truth about mending a broken heart. 

You will think there is no one in the world who could replace your ex, and that your heart will never feel that way about anyone again. Especially if this was your first love, she is the standard by which you are judging all others. The thought of feeling that way about someone else is not only foreign, it kind of hurts, because it feels like you're betraying this person you still love and putting closure on something you want to keep alive. You just can't imagine another in her place, or that you could be interested in someone else. 

UNTIL that person appears! Suddenly, in the dark space you're dwelling - the space occupied and controlled by a ghost - there will be a living, breathing person who intrigues and excites you. At that moment, the endless loop of pining thoughts for your ex will simply stop - replaced by thoughts of this new person ... wondering where they are and what they're doing ... recalling the way they smile and laugh ... the vibe you felt between you. 

Until that person - that unique individual in flesh and blood - presents, you are convinced they don't exist. But the thing is, they don't know you exist either ... until they do. And that magic moment when your paths cross is the force that has driven every relationship in human history, including every relationship of every person who felt odd and unlovable like you seem to be feeling. And thing is, we're not assigned only one for life ... it can happen many times.

As much as you don't believe it will happen right now, that's ok. Because you don't need to believe in it for it to happen. When it does, you'll know, and you'll believe.

Please hang in there, mate. One day you're going to look back and recall this pain as a moment that tested but did not break you, and then you'll, go right back to lavishing attention on the one you love, having learned some lessons that will make that relationship stronger. Just let your life unfold on its own schedule; don't assume you know or even need to know the story beforehand. There will be a plot turn that you'll never see coming. And it will be great!

Best,

John

[ZA Dater]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:25 PM, John Glasby said:

Reading your story, I can feel your pain, and I'm truly sorry, especially that you have such poor self-esteem about the whole thing. But let me offer this one thing that I think is kind of an eternal truth about mending a broken heart. 

You will think there is no one in the world who could replace your ex, and that your heart will never feel that way about anyone again. Especially if this was your first love, she is the standard by which you are judging all others. The thought of feeling that way about someone else is not only foreign, it kind of hurts, because it feels like you're betraying this person you still love and putting closure on something you want to keep alive. You just can't imagine another in her place, or that you could be interested in someone else. 

UNTIL that person appears! Suddenly, in the dark space you're dwelling - the space occupied and controlled by a ghost - there will be a living, breathing person who intrigues and excites you. At that moment, the endless loop of pining thoughts for your ex will simply stop - replaced by thoughts of this new person ... wondering where they are and what they're doing ... recalling the way they smile and laugh ... the vibe you felt between you. 

Until that person - that unique individual in flesh and blood - presents, you are convinced they don't exist. But the thing is, they don't know you exist either ... until they do. And that magic moment when your paths cross is the force that has driven every relationship in human history, including every relationship of every person who felt odd and unlovable like you seem to be feeling. And thing is, we're not assigned only one for life ... it can happen many times.

As much as you don't believe it will happen right now, that's ok. Because you don't need to believe in it for it to happen. When it does, you'll know, and you'll believe.

Please hang in there, mate. One day you're going to look back and recall this pain as a moment that tested but did not break you, and then you'll, go right back to lavishing attention on the one you love, having learned some lessons that will make that relationship stronger. Just let your life unfold on its own schedule; don't assume you know or even need to know the story beforehand. There will be a plot turn that you'll never see coming. And it will be great!

Best,

John

Thanks for this, much appreciated.

Its very difficult because it literally took me two decades to find someone to date who would actually date me! The thought of going back to that brutal search is not appealing at all. Its really an incredibly difficult challenge. I am sure for many people it can happen a few times, a good friend of mine has similar sentiments but its easy for him, there is lots people find attractive about him whereas I am very unattractive in the dating market.

I am just looking at what I am good at, taking stock of that and seeing how I can best use those qualities to sort just somehow feel useful to others.

[Foxhall]

I think this lady was mean enough not to give you a second chance [ ] 

one needs a thick skin too for it all, this lady could be uncompromising and potentially hard to live with (no harm to try and envisage her worst features)

As someone slightly similar to you, it took me five years to meet another woman after it finished with the original love of my life shall I say.

In the meantime enjoy your freedom, that creates possibilities believe it or not , although I do of course understand your loneliness (have been there)

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Foxhall said:

I think this lady was mean enough not to give you a second chance [ ] 

one needs a thick skin too for it all, this lady could be uncompromising and potentially hard to live with (no harm to try and envisage her worst features)

As someone slightly similar to you, it took me five years to meet another woman after it finished with the original love of my life shall I say.

In the meantime enjoy your freedom, that creates possibilities believe it or not , although I do of course understand your loneliness (have been there)

 

This has made me wonder many different things and has added to the general unpleasant feeling. I think while the fault may have mostly been mine there was also perhaps some communication issues. The problem I have is that very freedom is what makes me feel so bad because its nice to share things with people, a lot of the time spent with her was really great, it was nice to just feel relatively normal for a time.

As for possibilities, well I live in a city where there is no real lack of attractive ladies but I simply do not connect well, there is no real common ground. 

Just have to take it one day at a time I guess, there is a very attractive lady at a client of mine but time has taught me that people like that have no interest in me.

[ZA Dater]

On 11/22/2022 at 4:05 AM, basil67 said:

Most relationships end because of faults on both people's parts.  Yes, in this case, there are the things you wanted but were slow to be comfortable with...but I bet that if she'd actually communicated these issues to you, then you would have instantly done what is needed.  

And for what it's worth, exercise doesn't clear my mind either.  It just gives me more time to think 😖

Exactly this! I am just a very weird space at the moment looking around had made me feel a bit better, I guess this is where the whole "rebound" concept comes from. Though in my case its more theoretical than one I can ever turn into reality.

Is it odd I really miss the connection re simply time spent? People tell me "yeah just move on" "just go and find a casual hookup", this person knows me well and its like this generic advice which is not very helpful. Though in the context of his life where casual hook ups are very easy to find I suppose it is relevant.

Feeling so bad has allowed to step back and ultimately that has made me feel worse but also given me clarity too re all the things which make me a tough sell on the dating market. 

 

[basil67]

No, it’s not odd at all that you miss the time spent.  Whether it be a partner or a dear friend, those shared fun times, connections, laughter, and tough times are special and do add value to our lives.

Re the people who tell you to just move on or sleep with someone else, I have little respect for their advice.   The former seem to come from a place where there has been no deep connection and the latter come from a place of using others as a salve for pain.  Yeah, perhaps it works for them, but I’m not into shallow connections or using (and potentially hurting) someone for my own selfish needs

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

No, it’s not odd at all that you miss the time spent.  Whether it be a partner or a dear friend, those shared fun times, connections, laughter, and tough times are special and do add value to our lives.

Re the people who tell you to just move on or sleep with someone else, I have little respect for their advice.   The former seem to come from a place where there has been no deep connection and the latter come from a place of using others as a salve for pain.  Yeah, perhaps it works for them, but I’m not into shallow connections or using (and potentially hurting) someone for my own selfish needs

This has always been the issue.

As I try and put everything back together after some tough introspection I really do not feel great but it is what it is, part of me wonders if she simply found someone else who met her needs better. I would never ever have dated her for 11 months if I did not see a future, I told her this and more besides but even me not having experience was not good enough, I had to try work things out, yes I did not perhaps communicate the best but I did try.

The hurtful thing is the issues are never going to go away,  they will always prevent me from dating even if I could find someone where there was sort of some mutual attraction. This is what has hurt because I did try but it was not good enough and here I actually had someone who I did not have to persuade to find me attractive. Its why my thinking has been of a 
"window shop" mentality. See someone attractive glance and walk on or move on because I know its just not possible.

I admire people who have such huge self confidence, self attraction and self belief. 

Its just difficult.

[glows]

The main issue seems to be one with yourself. I’m not sure why you’re so convinced that you have insurmountable problems that no one else will love you and forgive me if this is incorrect but none of these problems or issues were quantified or assessed by a health professional. You don’t exactly know what’s wrong with you and haven’t done anything to change your mindset or seek professional advice. I’m unsure whether it’s depression, low self-confidence, lack of resilience overall, great stress due to other areas, unwilling to try new things or go places on your own. These are all adding up and isolating you or keeping you isolated and in despair.

I empathize with you on the break up and it’ll take time to heal. Staying in contact with an ex is a choice of your own undoing. We remove contact with an ex to shift our minds to a new reality and acceptance that an old one is over. You’re resetting and giving yourself a chance to breathe and live as you were before you met your ex. It’s time to let go.

What helped me in the past is recognizing my own limitations and seeking help from others who are more qualified and knowledgeable. I stayed active, slowly rebuilt my activities and interests. I didn’t put limitations on myself and I didn’t say early on what I can and can’t do or assume all problems are unfixable. Go into the future more open-minded.

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, glows said:

The main issue seems to be one with yourself. I’m not sure why you’re so convinced that you have insurmountable problems that no one else will love you and forgive me if this is incorrect but none of these problems or issues were quantified or assessed by a health professional. You don’t exactly know what’s wrong with you and haven’t done anything to change your mindset or seek professional advice. I’m unsure whether it’s depression, low self-confidence, lack of resilience overall, great stress due to other areas, unwilling to try new things or go places on your own. These are all adding up and isolating you or keeping you isolated and in despair.

I empathize with you on the break up and it’ll take time to heal. Staying in contact with an ex is a choice of your own undoing. We remove contact with an ex to shift our minds to a new reality and acceptance that an old one is over. You’re resetting and giving yourself a chance to breathe and live as you were before you met your ex. It’s time to let go.

What helped me in the past is recognizing my own limitations and seeking help from others who are more qualified and knowledgeable. I stayed active, slowly rebuilt my activities and interests. I didn’t put limitations on myself and I didn’t say early on what I can and can’t do or assume all problems are unfixable. Go into the future more open-minded.

My friend I have been on dating sites for years, I know full well what I can attract and what I cannot. That limitation is very present abs very real. 

I'll keep contact with her because well I like chatting and I hope to try make the situation right. Even if I never date her again.

I am tired of going everywhere on my own, one of the many reasons I liked spending time with her.

 

[mark clemson]

It can be easier said than done sometimes, and perhaps now isn't the time to hear it, but - after you process this - it's on to better things (a more lasting relationship).

If this is your first real relationship, you're not accustomed to processing the dopamine drop that happens during a breakup. But eventually you'll get better at handling that.

More importantly, you're developing the skills to date successfully - as evidenced by your success. And with an attractive woman no less - there's a tendency for them to be a pretty fussy. Good job!

I agree, don't spend time in the friend zone/as an orbiter if your feelings are strong. It's typically just a waste of time. IF she wanted to get back together at some point (a very low probability, perhaps on the order of 2%), she would want that whether or not you've dated others in the interim. So no reason to assume the orbiter role.

[ZA Dater]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:19 AM, Kelton said:

After I posted the above, I went back and read through your recent posts about the relationship and it's rapid demise 2 months ago. I tried to amend the post above but the edit time had expired.

I suspect there are more reasons behind her deciding to suddenly end the relationship.

It's very difficult to date a person who is depressed, who lacks confidence, and who reeks of self pity. Put yourself in her position- even if you didn't SAY it like you did here, you think she wasn't aware of your lack of interest, the lack of attraction and that she didn't miss the intimacy? She flat out TOLD you she didn't know where you guys were at after almost a year, and rather than any sort of validation you simply said "we're dating". I'm surprised she waited that long, but that's your opportunity, that's the moment when you express your feelings and thoughts about her and your future together and clarify that you are in fact a couple in a committed exclusive relationship. You could throw in something about how it's a new experience for you, you're very excited and enthusiastic about your future together, but you've got commitment issues, you're afraid of being hurt after finally finding "The One" after 2 decades of dating, so you're wearing your emotions close to your chest.. and you're sorry for not being more open. But all you gave her was "We're dating". 

You never fit in with her friends and social circle. You felt, and acted like an outcast- not participating in conversations around the table, and not joining them for a trip because your work was more important. Did you ever consider that she was put off by you not going on that trip? Or did you simply think "I can't go, work is more important and I don't relate to any of these people anyway". That makes it about you and your needs and dismisses hers entirely. Yet ironically you often post that you are loyal and will do anything for anyone you care about.

You stated several times you believe the problem was that you didn't introduce her to your family sooner. While it is rather questionable that during the course of almost a year together there was never an occasion for this family meetup to occur, and it was another straw on the camel's back, it was probably not the deal-breaker.

You also said in a post that goes back to early October when everything fell apart that you would make one last attempt to fix things. It didn't work, she wasn't interested in reconciling, and here you are 2 months later, hanging on to scraps, and hoping for a chance to fix it again. This isn't productive, it isn't reasonable, and it's not healthy.

There is only one way to possibly get back an ex- go complete NO CONTACT and work on yourself, heal, and make some hard changes that will lead to you being a better relationship partner in the future. Sometimes going no contact for a period of time causes renewed interest in the Dumper and they come around and are willing to try again. But this whole "go no contact so she'll miss you" method rarely works because it doesn't address the underlying problems that caused the breakup in the first place. The two ex's miss each other, they re-connect, but it doesn't last because the same problems are still there. The cycle can repeat many times until one or both realizes how futile it is. I've been there...just recently out of a 10 year relationship, we reconciled several times before it finally imploded 6 months ago and we went no contact for what I expect to be the last time - and I still sometimes think about sending a text but logic and common sense have prevailed.

And most of us, especially as we get older, do not have the ability, the motivation, the self reflection and self awareness to make real change- and even if we do it takes years. The only thing you can do now is to go complete no contact. Give it some time- no less than a month, several months would be better. Take some time to heal, get used to being alone, really consider the things your fellow advice-givers have offered you here- and be prepared to implement them if she comes around. In which case even if you don't feel it, "fake it until you make it". Yes you're a couple, yes you're really into her, tell her how hot she is, go away with her friends and miss some work, have some family gatherings, don't act miserable and depressed around her, and go easy on the freaking metaphors.

In many of your posts you refute great suggestions from your well meaning fellow advice gives, and you say you cannot and will not change, it's how you are. If that's the case then why would you even expect things to be different if she DID give you another chance?

This is a good post because a lot of it is very accurate. In terms of the bold, I regret that response but at the time what else was I supposed to say, I had never been in that situation before, everything was new. She knew from the off I lacked dating experience, I was upfront about that and quite honestly every single person I meet can see that.

I tried to fit in with here friends, I tried to converse, I really did put in the effort, as for the weekend away, unfortunately I cant just drop work, that is just the way it is.  My family like most I think is rather complicated, on top of everything else I have to care for them due to medical reasons.

To be honest 95% of any time I attempted to date has not been healthy, the entire OLD process is not healthy, endless rejection is not healthy, being made to feel inferior is not healthy. for 11 months I had more than I deserved, I was very lucky and very stupid because apathy meant I threw is all away, I will always regret that.

Second bold is quite realistic, I do not frankly have the motivation go searching again. I have done everything in my life alone and simply have to concede it is what it is, I have lived a life but never really lived. I'd do most things to get her back I do not see that happening, at the end of the day she can find better people than me, guys who have experience and none of the issues I do. I have been happy to change when given a reason to but changing for change sake does not interest me at all.

Unfortunately when self confidence was being dished out at dating I received none and no matter what I do with dating its either wrong or never enough so with a fairly clear mind I can just window shop, I read the suggestions and I do try them but the pieces never really fit together, I have friends some of them date people like I eat lunch, seemingly endless supply of company and to be fair its easy to see why, successful, funny, charisma, fun and outgoing. I am none of those things really but what I can be is the most reliable and dependable guy around. Sadly the reality is I am good for the stuff most guys wont want to do but not good enough for anything else, I accept that, chased often enough to know I do not tick the boxes.

Here I did find ONE person in 20 odd years who did seem to appreciate the qualities I have yet I still mess it up, that is on me and I need to live with it.

[ZA Dater]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:39 PM, mark clemson said:

It can be easier said than done sometimes, and perhaps now isn't the time to hear it, but - after you process this - it's on to better things (a more lasting relationship).

If this is your first real relationship, you're not accustomed to processing the dopamine drop that happens during a breakup. But eventually you'll get better at handling that.

More importantly, you're developing the skills to date successfully - as evidenced by your success. And with an attractive woman no less - there's a tendency for them to be a pretty fussy. Good job!

I agree, don't spend time in the friend zone/as an orbiter if your feelings are strong. It's typically just a waste of time. IF she wanted to get back together at some point (a very low probability, perhaps on the order of 2%), she would want that whether or not you've dated others in the interim. So no reason to assume the orbiter role.

Not really I think I just got lucky. I just regret not being intelligent enough to read the situation better.

[mark clemson]

If you say so. I think maybe give yourself more credit - but you know you better than I do.

[ZA Dater]

What I have found has worked as to simply keep as busy as possible, this is quite easy to do actually but there are a lot of times where I simply miss the things we used to do, meals, walks, go exploring new places. None of those things are quite as nice to do on my own but I guess I will need to get back into that routine of being alone again.

Window shopping also helps to an extent, some would call it aspirational dating, I call it window shopping.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Window shopping also helps to an extent, some would call it aspirational dating, I call it window shopping.

Bringing the term back to the retail sense, window shopping involves reminding ourselves of all the things we want but can't have.  Or if we did have it, it would be so fancy that we'd look ridiculous.  Or we'd be scared of ruining or losing it.  How does such a miserable experience help if it's used in a dating sense?  

There's a lot to be said for keeping one's feet firmly planted on the earth

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Bringing the term back to the retail sense, window shopping involves reminding ourselves of all the things we want but can't have.

 

I agree.  In the case of the OP here, it is a part of why they have so much trouble dating.   The whole time I've participated in your posts here on LS,  @ZA Dater, I've tried to challenge your persistence in looking at human women as objects that you want to acquire but somehow (in your own narrative, due to "unfairness" of various kinds) you are thwarted.

Your lengthy thread about the woman you were seeing was completely bogged down in how she wasn't "WHAT" you really wanted, but how you needed to give up trying for "WHAT" you want (usually described as "A 10")

Not to rub your face in your unhappiness, but it's very hard not to imagine how much this woman probably felt like a consolation prize to you for most of the time you were seeing each other.   

If you start to look at WHO you want to be with rather than WHAT, it would be a good start.

Fantasizing over hot babes isn't going to help with that.

OTOH, if you have truly given up, like you keep saying (I hope this is not the case) I guess you can just be a loner looking at hot babes.  

[ZA Dater]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:17 PM, NuevoYorko said:

I agree.  In the case of the OP here, it is a part of why they have so much trouble dating.   The whole time I've participated in your posts here on LS,  @ZA Dater, I've tried to challenge your persistence in looking at human women as objects that you want to acquire but somehow (in your own narrative, due to "unfairness" of various kinds) you are thwarted.

OTOH, if you have truly given up, like you keep saying (I hope this is not the case) I guess you can just be a loner looking at hot babes.  

I have. I spent one day on Tinder and one day on Bumble and deleted both and felt better for doing so. For most of my life I have been a loner so this is nothing new, it just becomes a problem because there is a lot about life which is best shared and much of which just does not really work to do/experience alone. 

Actually in the time I dated her I really did try to the best of my albeit very limited and poorly judged ability as it turns out to be the best version of me but the combination of inexperience, poor communication on my part just did not really work for someone who knows exactly what she wants.

So no she never felt like that, of that I am very sure.

I however feel like that most days of my life, never enough, never good enough, always someone else better and its just what I carry around with me most days. I do what I can to mitigate this, try focus on things to take my mind off it and generally try move past it.

For me I suppose the problem is I am always around people who in almost every sphere of life are better than me in the broadest sense. Everyone life experience is different, our coping mechanisms are different but also the same. So yes when I see that tall athletic runner I just appreciate it takes a better and more successful person than me to date someone like that, maybe its true, maybe it is not but I know what I am and what I am not and certainly I am not appealing to most people, irrespective of their appearance. You might find this hard to believe but I have been parties, very extravagant ones at that and I had to condition myself to go to these because I knew there would be guys looking, I'd look and observe how they went about charming the ladies present, I'd look at body language and general behaviour and the level of confidence. They could carry massive confidence into any social interaction because that confidence was derived from a feeling success. I never have that feeling and when I did try at these parties, the cold off response I got from these ladies told me everything and 2 min later some dude managed to do what I simply could not.  It was here I learnt the power of Porsche and a Patek and failing any of those the ability to spin such a convincing story and perhaps the ability to be fun. I took at look at this and looked at what I could offer, what good qualities I might have, things I could maybe bring to the table but when I tried using those, I found they were as worthless as bag full of paper. 

From this I realised I could sit back, enjoy the parties, make the odd conversation with guys and this is where my whole window shopping thing came from, there was a certain degree of 'well I cant date her but I am glad she is around". Every so often I'd manage a conversation with a lady but it was never more than "businesslike" because ultimately that is what I do best. My mind is on work 24/7 and it never really leaves that mode. 

I'll be quite honest the story with A was there I was around someone who is beautiful overall and for once I could sort of live one giant big lie and tell myself that "yeah this is quite good" and it did feel great, I felt more confident because she is super confident and to be honest I could just open up and unlike everyone else I was not ignored, she engaged with me on a range of topics. It was the same with the yoga teacher and a few others, it was all window dressing but each time I felt a bit better albeit in the space of the "lie". I loved the attention and the warmth. 

I regret the mess I made of this relationship because the mess was caused by apathy rather than intent, for me that is unforgivable. When I make mistakes I want to get up and correct them but relationships do not seem to work like that. There is not much I would not do to go back and change the stupid decisions I made, say what I felt versus saying what I thought was appropriate.

As for coping, I suppose it sounds stupid but I had to resort to the fact I cant change what has happened, I can take the good with me, carry the bad and regrets as best I can but I will always punish myself for being so stupid. Going back to Tinder and Bumble, its the same unappealing matches and its back down the same rabbit hole of miserable, worthless feeling. At least when I see that attractive lady part of me knows if I had sort of qualities I would have some sort of appeal, I do not so I just accept that  but I hang onto a misguided belief that "maybe one day". 

[ZA Dater]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:08 PM, basil67 said:

Bringing the term back to the retail sense, window shopping involves reminding ourselves of all the things we want but can't have.  Or if we did have it, it would be so fancy that we'd look ridiculous.  Or we'd be scared of ruining or losing it.  How does such a miserable experience help if it's used in a dating sense?  

There's a lot to be said for keeping one's feet firmly planted on the earth

 

That is exactly the point of it. Its the cold reality of life, some people accomplish it, some simply do not. Again most of my days revolve around this theme to lesser and greater degree.

Ultimately possibility not matter how small keeps me moving forward. Yes I know I do no appeal to the window shopping that does not mean I cant believe in possibility. Agreed its best to be realistic but if I did this and did not allow myself to live vicariously life would be very dull indeed. I am not exactly going to bother to even try strike up what would be a very awkward conversation because I know that realistically my chances are zero.