Coping mechanisms

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

When I make mistakes I want to get up and correct them but relationships do not seem to work like that.

A healthy relationship actually does work like that. 

When we aren't getting our needs met, we let our partner know.  This gives them a chance to correct the problem.    But in this case, she didn't let you know, so you weren't given a chance to correct it.  

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

Actually in the time I dated her I really did try to the best of my albeit very limited and poorly judged ability as it turns out to be the best version of me but the combination of inexperience, poor communication on my part just did not really work for someone who knows exactly what she wants.

So no she never felt like that, of that I am very sure.

 

If you'd like a reality check, please look back at that thread you were posting in while you were dating her.   

You state outright that maybe it's your nature to always look for "BETTER" (your word) and also regularly questioning whether you were actually attracted to her.

As I came to understand it (TBH it's kind of hard to follow the actual events) she was not satisfied with your 'escalation' and specifically mentioned meeting your family.

I would put money on this woman feeling undervalued or "settled for" by you and finally just deciding she had to move on.

And I would put even more money on this:  The idea that you were "too inexperienced" never entered her mind at all.  This is not what women care about.  People want to feel loved and valued in their relationships.

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

If you'd like a reality check, please look back at that thread you were posting in while you were dating her.   

You state outright that maybe it's your nature to always look for "BETTER" (your word) and also regularly questioning whether you were actually attracted to her.

As I came to understand it (TBH it's kind of hard to follow the actual events) she was not satisfied with your 'escalation' and specifically mentioned meeting your family.

I would put money on this woman feeling undervalued or "settled for" by you and finally just deciding she had to move on.

And I would put even more money on this:  The idea that you were "too inexperienced" never entered her mind at all.  This is not what women care about.  People want to feel loved and valued in their relationships.

Which I clearly have no idea how to do. What she was specifically unhappy with I am still not completely sure about, part of it I think might be the fact I am very invested in work and probably about 90% of things I do in life branch out from that and have that at the core. Maybe there was just too much compromise needed for what I offer, that is possible too. 

As mentioned I thought it might be a good coping way to go back to OLD and see but actually that was one giant mistake. I look at this and I feel a huge degree of failure and shame for how badly I messed it up. More because she deserved better and also because I know I wont that again.

The advice I get "ah move on, next, go silent" this is not very helpful, what I get here is much more helpful. Its very easy to say move on and next when that particular person has tons of options by virtue of being attractive and fun. Not so easy for me. 

 

[ZA Dater]

So I saw her for coffee last week which might have been a mistake. It was really wonderful to spend time with her but I also think maybe she wanted to see how I was doing. I still do not really feel much better about the way I messed this up.

Its a rather horrid feeling, especially with the holidays approaching, I'd hoped to spend some of it with her. People offer such false advice "you will meet someone soon" "go to a bar and chat someone up". Something I learnt from the advice here is to simply ignore this because neither is particularly helpful.

Perhaps not to any great surprise the friends idea does not seem to work either.  This really hurts me.

There is nothing I can do which will punish myself enough for the mistake I made here. I carry around years and years of regrets and now this is by far the biggest, I one one GREAT opportunity, for once I felt happy and yeah I managed to conspire to mess that up.

What do I really have left in life: the very same nothing I had before I met her.

There are so many things which are awkward in life when done alone, try go seeing a movie on your own, try going to dinner on your own, try get apple picking on your own. What I really enjoyed was being with her, sharing but it just seems to was not good enough. Every single day of my life in one aspect or another the phrase "its not good enough" resonates. I am not an extroverted person I am not going to walk up to people and strike up a conversation.

These holidays are going to be truly terrible.

[NuevoYorko]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

There is nothing I can do which will punish myself enough for the mistake I made here. I carry around years and years of regrets and now this is by far the biggest, I one one GREAT opportunity, for once I felt happy and yeah I managed to conspire to mess that up.

What do I really have left in life: the very same nothing I had before I met her.

 

Oh come on.  You, like all of the rest of us, are entitled to your broken heart and sorrow over your failed relationship.  Unless you have a profound learning disability, however, you are as capable as anyone else of learning from your experience there and taking what you've learned forward into future interactions that might lead to intimate relationships.   

It's frankly quite ridiculous to be so enchanted with the idea that this was the one and only "chance" you'll ever have at a relationship.  That's fully down to your choices.

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Oh come on.  You, like all of the rest of us, are entitled to your broken heart and sorrow over your failed relationship.  Unless you have a profound learning disability, however, you are as capable as anyone else of learning from your experience there and taking what you've learned forward into future interactions that might lead to intimate relationships.   

It's frankly quite ridiculous to be so enchanted with the idea that this was the one and only "chance" you'll ever have at a relationship.  That's fully down to your choices.

Extremely easy to type but when you put yourself in my shoes you may think differently.  There are simply so many red flags with me that honestly I am not in the game, years and years of trying have proven that to be the case.

Bottom line is people do not want a project. 

[NuevoYorko]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Extremely easy to type but when you put yourself in my shoes you may think differently.  There are simply so many red flags with me that honestly I am not in the game, years and years of trying have proven that to be the case.

Bottom line is people do not want a project. 

Turn this back on yourself.  You have NO IDEA what anyone else has experienced [ ]

Your threads are filled with posts from people who have gone out of their way to share their own experiences with you in an effort to help.  

You generally come back with something similar to the above:  "Easy to type but when you put yourself in my shoes ... "  etc.  

Years and years of trying?  I've only been aware of you for a few of your years but so far this is the ONLY time you've tried at all.  Which was a good move.  And a FIRST.   If you were willing to LEARN something rather than being a know-it-all regarding things of which you have zero knowledge,  you'd be much better equipped for another try once your sad feelings had abated.  

It takes a heck of a lot more than one [ ] stab at dating a woman to actually understand what being in a relationship entails, much less to actually do the things.

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[Weezy1973]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

Bottom line is people do not want a project. 

Everybody’s a project. 

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Everybody’s a project. 

Some are more appealing than others. Anyway I had what will probably be sadly my last conversation with her. I put everything on the table, all of it and it was immensely difficult to do but I do feel better for doing it.

 

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Turn this back on yourself.  You have NO IDEA what anyone else has experienced [ ]

Your threads are filled with posts from people who have gone out of their way to share their own experiences with you in an effort to help.  

You generally come back with something similar to the above:  "Easy to type but when you put yourself in my shoes ... "  etc.  

Years and years of trying?  I've only been aware of you for a few of your years but so far this is the ONLY time you've tried at all.  Which was a good move.  And a FIRST.   If you were willing to LEARN something rather than being a know-it-all regarding things of which you have zero knowledge,  you'd be much better equipped for another try once your sad feelings had abated.  

It takes a heck of a lot more than one [ ] stab at dating a woman to actually understand what being in a relationship entails, much less to actually do the things.

 

With respect, it's only a first because nobody else I find attractive would give me the time of day.

Most other people have enjoyed a degree of dating success and most have not needed to wait till 38 to find it. 

If a person cannot find mutual attraction then that same person cannot date. That's the bottom line in my opinion.

 

 

[basil67]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

With respect, it's only a first because nobody else I find attractive would give me the time of day.

With respect, your history is littered with discussions about how the women you want value money, fancy cars and prestige.   You've been complaining for all that time and for the same amount of time, we've been telling you that you're not only punching above, but also chasing the shallow people who aren't going to look twice at anyone who doesn't have a shiny facade. 

By all accounts, this is the first woman who wasn't like those who you wanted.  Yes, it took you time to warm up to the idea, but sadly, it's taken you 20 year to discover that you can love a woman who isn't a shallow 10.  

You can ignore our advice as much as you want, but don't come back complaining about nobody looking at you when we'd all told you that you needed to change your criteria.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

With respect, your history is littered with discussions about how the women you want value money, fancy cars and prestige.   You've been complaining for all that time and for the same amount of time, we've been telling you that you're not only punching above, but also chasing the shallow people who aren't going to look twice at anyone who doesn't have a shiny facade. 

By all accounts, this is the first woman who wasn't like those who you wanted.  Yes, it took you time to warm up to the idea, but sadly, it's taken you 20 year to discover that you can love a woman who isn't a shallow 10.  

You can ignore our advice as much as you want, but don't come back complaining about nobody looking at you when we'd all told you that you needed to change your criteria.

Well to be frank this is the first time someone I found l attractive took an interest in me. I cannot suddenly find people attractive who I simply do not find attractive.

For exactly this reason I will not go back to OLD. 

I'll agree to disagree on that importance of the supposed "shallow" criteria because to a lot of people they are very important criteria.

At least yesterday I got say what I needed to say and yeah somehow prepare myself for what are going to be very lonely holidays thinking about "what if"

Edited December 10, 2022 by ZA Dater

[NuevoYorko]

You have excuses for everything and rarely, if ever, look at changes you'd need to make in yourself to change the path your life takes.  So you are inert and stuck, due to your own choices.  Own it instead of playing the passive victim of circumstances beyond your control.  

You weren't feeling attracted to your ex for dozens of pages and thus, were barely even trying with her.  At some point you decided she was worthy of your attention, even if she doesn't look like a model,  and you did put yourself out somewhat.   These are examples of you stepping out of your rigid, superficial cookie cutter way of looking at things.  It's a first, as far as what you've shared here anyway.  NOT because you got started on a relationship, but because you saw and experienced the value in being flexible.   

We all witnessed it so your attempts at going back to trying for a hapless hard luck case are very disingenuous.   You know what to do because you did it.  You can do it again if you choose, only next time, better, because you will have learned what mistakes you made that contributed to how this ended up.   

Your choice.

[ZA Dater]

45 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

You have excuses for everything and rarely, if ever, look at changes you'd need to make in yourself to change the path your life takes.  So you are inert and stuck, due to your own choices.  Own it instead of playing the passive victim of circumstances beyond your control.  

You weren't feeling attracted to your ex for dozens of pages and thus, were barely even trying with her.  At some point you decided she was worthy of your attention, even if she doesn't look like a model,  and you did put yourself out somewhat.   These are examples of you stepping out of your rigid, superficial cookie cutter way of looking at things.  It's a first, as far as what you've shared here anyway.  NOT because you got started on a relationship, but because you saw and experienced the value in being flexible.   

We all witnessed it so your attempts at going back to trying for a hapless hard luck case are very disingenuous.   You know what to do because you did it.  You can do it again if you choose, only next time, better, because you will have learned what mistakes you made that contributed to how this ended up.   

Your choice.

Frankly I do not have much choice in the matter, if I did I had have much more experience dating. I am quite happy to own the fact I am unattractive, the lack of attractive matches on dating platforms confirms this. I am happy to own the fact I have no idea how to date and thus need to take a best guess as to how to date, this unfortunately does not wash with people because why settle for me when they can get someone who has the experience, please notice the word "settle". 

Not really sure where the model being the primary criteria comes from either. 

Fact of the matter this all fell apart because I had neither the wisdom and the experience to be able to date and that is my problem and I do own it and I will continue to punish myself for it. 

I threw the dice and lost this one and its all good and well to say "better luck next time" but the reality is when the first time took 20 odd years and I go back onto OLD and once again find the same matches then its very difficult to believe there is ever a next time, more so when I look how unattractive I am overall. You asked about my window shopping, the other aspect to that is at least I can delude myself to believing that maybe I can work but I know in reality it cannot. Again think about this.

Coping, well I have learnt a few things about this, working out helps a bit, doing even more work and keeping busy helps a bit, helping other helps a bit, ignoring useless advice like "go out and get laid" that also helps a bit. None of these really help when I am sitting on my own, missing the time spent, the dinners, the laughs and just having someone in my life who gets me. It hurts but I am at fault so I get to live with this and own it. 

[Beachead]

@ZA Dater

If you had more relationship experience, there'd be women out there, punishing you for that as well, so who gives a damn what she says.  

Relationships can fail for all kinds of reasons that are out of your control, having to do with the other person.  What one woman likes, another might dislike.  What one woman finds attractive, another won't.  Imagine if you change something about yourself, one woman rejected you for, but are rejected by the next person you meet for the change you made.  It happened to me.  It happened to many.   Can't please everybody so if you're going to change, make sure you change for you.  Not for anyone else.

I didn't do well with relationships either.  In the end, I found myself single, heartbroken, and spending a long time getting myself back on my feet.   It happened so many times that I burned out.   From there, I got to a place where I stopped caring about trying to be the right kind of man for whoever I was interested in and started caring about doing right for myself.  That's when life changed, but not because I met someone new and lived happily ever after, but because learned I could perfectly fine on my own. 

Try as you might, you could end up single for the rest of your life and THAT is okay.  The quality of your life need not be validated by your relationship status.  If it is not okay to you, then I assure you, that is where you are going wrong. Banking your self-worth on a result that is influenced by factors outside your control is investing all your money on a risky stock.  You don't have control of what other people have gone through in their life which shapes the way they think and the decisions they make and how they treat you.   

I let go of those ideas of meeting someone, having a relationship, getting married, having kids etc. and that made room for "Now what?  Where I go from here?  What do I do?"  That was when I started truly started thinking about me and started making better decisions for myself.  That included letting go of certain people and shrinking my social life down, embracing new hobbies, making career changes etc.  Those changes in my life made life clearer. More days where I felt at peace.  And since then I've learned new skills that have only led me to meeting new people, thinking about new things, and opening up new opportunities and that detracts you mind away from this issue that can't control.

 I know this is a love and relationship forum and many people expect love and relationship advice but having been here for years, I've seen the patterns of posters and I know what I went through.  The fix for a lot of these problems can be solved, doing the internal work.

If you need hope, then know the right person for you will know your flaws and weaknesses, and will still want to be with you and will inspire you to change for the better. 

Goodluck 

- Beach

Edited December 10, 2022 by MisterFeather

[basil67]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'll agree to disagree on that importance of the supposed "shallow" criteria because to a lot of people they are very important criteria.

Of course these shallow criteria are important to them . But what does it say about them that they value these things over someone being a good and kind human who is enjoyable to be around? 

Heck, I wouldn't be friends with them, let alone want to have a relationship with them.  I simply cannot understand why you'd hold vapid women as this as your holy grail

Edited December 10, 2022 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Of course these shallow criteria are important to them . But what does it say about them that they value these things over someone being a good and kind human who is enjoyable to be around? 

Heck, I wouldn't be friends with them, let alone want to have a relationship with them.  I simply cannot understand why you'd hold vapid women as this as your holy grail

I'll turn this around, I had quite an amusing bio on all dating sites, I put the best pics I had and yet not one person I found physically attractive matched with me. As someone said I'll own that.

Own the fact I am not attractive.

I have in social settings when I bothered to go to such events met some nice people, they aren't interested in me, just because they aren't does not make them bad people.

For years I have been reading advice and points of view, I read and then try apply or look at the advice in relation to my own experience and situations.

The last few days have been very very difficult, when I go on vacation it's going to be even worse, now I have some things related to work to keep me busy on vacation I an just reminded what I planned to do with her and I am back to nothing.

OLD is the alternative but honestly I am tired of the same matches, the same lack of any physical attraction. 

Window shopping will be better than that because in reality the outcome of nothing is exactly the same.