Non communicative ex and tennis

[Caliguy2349]

I have a son who loves tennis. He is 11. 
 

ex wife moved away when he was 8.  I had custody.   That’s when we started tennis.  He is a top player in the state. 
 

She moved back and we have 50/50.  I have control over extra curriculars. 
 

she tells him she is “supportive” yet does not let him play.  WilL not take him to a tournament.  Will not let me take him to lessons on her time.   Always a different excuse. 
 

this is having a negative affect on the child.  It’s also very hard for me to sign him up in a program.  She will Not communicate. 
 

 This seems to be a gray area in courts.  

what should we do?  Should I tell my son to forget his dreams?  He works so hard only time, but then can’t play at all on her time. 
 

 

[ShyViolet]

There's no way the lessons could be scheduled on your time?  You say the time is 50/50.

[Caliguy2349]

They are scheduled on my time. But these days, no kids only play twice a week.  No matter what the sport.  you can, but you would most likely never make a high school team  especially in tennis.   I can’t control which weekends the events he needs to be at occur on  

Kids his age wrestle 6 times a week, swim 6 times a week, play soccer or basketball everyday etc.  
 

He is upset his mother will not let him   His level programs are 4 days a week   Beginners play twice a week  

 

 

 

 

[glows]

What is her reasoning? This is the two parents disagreeing and a child caught in the middle. You’ll have to coparent better or be willing to listen to each other and compromise/agree.

[Caliguy2349]

1 minute ago, glows said:

What is her reasoning? This is the two parents disagreeing and a child caught in the middle. You’ll have to coparent better or be willing to listen to each other and compromise/agree.

In my opinion, she has a younger daughter with her next husband.  So my son has to be the babysitter. 
 

her new husband works overseas.  So more or less, my son has to be the babysitter. She doesn’t work.  
 

she would never admit this.  She just says she is supportive of his sport etc.  But never lets him do it.  She admits no wrong.   

I can even walk to her home and take my son for an hour.  She just won’t let him go as she will never let me have an extra minute. 

[glows]

I see. There’s a lot of resentment here and unfortunately your son is caught in the middle. I’d find another hobby and encourage him to focus on his schoolwork. 

Try not to feed his frustration with his mother for not letting him play tennis. The more he’s used like this or parents pitting themselves against one another the worse it is for the child.

Are the kids left alone for long periods? 

[Caliguy2349]

5 minutes ago, glows said:

I see. There’s a lot of resentment here and unfortunately your son is caught in the middle. I’d find another hobby and encourage him to focus on his schoolwork. 

Try not to feed his frustration with his mother for not letting him play tennis. The more he’s used like this or parents pitting themselves against one another the worse it is for the child.

Are the kids left alone for long periods? 

Well he has played for 3 years constantly and loves it.  I would never tell him to quit.  He would be devestated. All that for nothing?  school work is boring and easy for him. 
 

if I said the above to him he would have a breakdown. 
 

she is on her Instagram.  They aren’t left alone. Her daughter is 6 and watches YouTube all day.  
 

The resentment is that she moves back and wants to lower his level at everything so he can fit in with a 6 yr old 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Caliguy2349

[Caliguy2349]

8 minutes ago, glows said:

I see. There’s a lot of resentment here and unfortunately your son is caught in the middle. I’d find another hobby and encourage him to focus on his schoolwork. 

Try not to feed his frustration with his mother for not letting him play tennis. The more he’s used like this or parents pitting themselves against one another the worse it is for the child.

Are the kids left alone for long periods? 

So you are saying the non engaged parent should be able to squash the child’s dreams? 

[glows]

He will have to learn something else. I am sorry but this much arguing and disagreement is not worth it in the long run in terms of care or mental well-being. If you are both open to it I strongly suggest therapy as coparents or to learn better coparenting skills and ways to communicate. This isn’t only about what you want and you’re assuming she uses him for babysitting. 

You need to sit down with your ex wife and talk about your son more neutrally and agree on his activities. It doesn’t matter whether his school work bores him. As long as he has a stable home life between both his parents that’s what matters. Not the arguing and disagreements about tennis.

[Caliguy2349]

18 hours ago, glows said:

He will have to learn something else. I am sorry but this much arguing and disagreement is not worth it in the long run in terms of care or mental well-being. If you are both open to it I strongly suggest therapy as coparents or to learn better coparenting skills and ways to communicate. This isn’t only about what you want and you’re assuming she uses him for babysitting. 

You need to sit down with your ex wife and talk about your son more neutrally and agree on his activities. It doesn’t matter whether his school work bores him. As long as he has a stable home life between both his parents that’s what matters. Not the arguing and disagreements about tennis.

[ ] 

she refuses to sit down and talk  I tried  

so basically you are saying he is a boy, and it is just a hobby, so tell him to quit after becoming one of the best in the state lol   

just seems pretty biased to support a lazy non So what else should he do?   

should she tell him or should I?  Who should be the bad guy? 
 

[ ] 

Edited November 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[glows]

He’s an 11 year old child. Both of you will have to coparent in ways where you are agreeing on his schedule and the upbringing he has. This is not about being the good or bad guy and it’s not about tennis. Your son doesn’t call the shots - you do as parents together so work together to find an agreement. 

It doesn’t sound like you’re communicating very well with your ex. She may feel it’s because you don’t listen to her. Be more open to listening to what she has to say. Ask her what she thinks about the scheduling or for her input in general and see what she says. You both can come to an agreement about how you speak to your son on any topic not just this one.

[ShyViolet]

Are you sure this fixation on tennis is really coming from your son, or are you the one who is more pushing for it?  The way you keep talking about him being "best in the state" and doing tournaments, that sounds more like something a parent would push for, rather than something an 11 year old would really want.

There's no reason he has to give up tennis, he can play recreationally as much as the schedule allows.  But why is it so important that he do these competitive tournaments?  If the competition side of it doesn't fit into the schedule, then why not take the pressure off and let him just play recreationally whenever it fits into the schedule?  What's with all the pressure?

[Caliguy2349]

5 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Are you sure this fixation on tennis is really coming from your son, or are you the one who is more pushing for it?  The way you keep talking about him being "best in the state" and doing tournaments, that sounds more like something a parent would push for, rather than something an 11 year old would really want.

There's no reason he has to give up tennis, he can play recreationally as much as the schedule allows.  But why is it so important that he do these competitive tournaments?  If the competition side of it doesn't fit into the schedule, then why not take the pressure off and let him just play recreationally whenever it fits into the schedule?  What's with all the pressure?

I know. That is what it sounds like. 
 

I am the pushy father.  But if I told my son “hey just play for fun”, he would have a heart attack. 
 

That’s just not his personality.  Then there is essentially no reason to play.  He doesn’t want to be 12 losing to 9 year olds. 
 

some kids know what they like to do. 
 

I feel the bigger issue is that he is afraid to talk to his mom 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Caliguy2349

[Getbackup]

As an alternate idea to think about, what about going to your sons coach and asking if he can contact the mother.  Have a little chat and see if the messaging will be received differently coming from someone else?  I can't imagine a coach not being able to explain that practices happen weekly.  And that at his level and his talent, you need continuous exposure to the sport to stay at that level, let alone improve.  And is there anything the coach can help facilitate (wink wink) to help get her son to more practices?  Maybe another family willing to carpool him?

As an aside, your ex isn't thinking about what is best for your son.  I'm in agreement with you on that (but I'm also that Mom that supports my kids in every endeavor.  Heck, you get one childhood, right?).  Maybe her issue is child care for the youngest.  Maybe her issue is that she doesn't want that lifestyle of carting your kid from A to B and how that impacts her new life.  Who knows.  But perhaps thinking outside the box can help.  Like, what about suggesting a high schooler to drop off/pick up your son for her custody weeks and if you are willing to pay/arrange for a high schooler to transport your son (so it doesn't impact her) perhaps she will be more receptive to supporting his dreams?  A lot of schools have job board listings...just a thought.  

[Caliguy2349]

3 minutes ago, Getbackup said:

As an alternate idea to think about, what about going to your sons coach and asking if he can contact the mother.  Have a little chat and see if the messaging will be received differently coming from someone else?  I can't imagine a coach not being able to explain that practices happen weekly.  And that at his level and his talent, you need continuous exposure to the sport to stay at that level, let alone improve.  And is there anything the coach can help facilitate (wink wink) to help get her son to more practices?  Maybe another family willing to carpool him?

As an aside, your ex isn't thinking about what is best for your son.  I'm in agreement with you on that (but I'm also that Mom that supports my kids in every endeavor.  Heck, you get one childhood, right?).  Maybe her issue is child care for the youngest.  Maybe her issue is that she doesn't want that lifestyle of carting your kid from A to B and how that impacts her new life.  Who knows.  But perhaps thinking outside the box can help.  Like, what about suggesting a high schooler to drop off/pick up your son for her custody weeks and if you are willing to pay/arrange for a high schooler to transport your son (so it doesn't impact her) perhaps she will be more receptive to supporting his dreams?  A lot of schools have job board listings...just a thought.  

This is the situation. The coaches have told her.  I am willing to drive, but perhaps she just doesn’t want me to, so maybe a third party would be a good idea.  I think it is about control also, as she calls it “my sport”. 
 

This is what  happens :

A. She tells the coach she just wants time with him. 
 

B. She tells me “he doesn’t want to go”

C. Son tells me he wants to go, but mom won’t take him. Instead he pretends to play tennis in his room  and she is just on instagram  

d. She tells everyone else she is supportive!

None of us are ever in the same room at the same time of these conversation. 
 

So to  me it seems like constant lying. 
 

 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Caliguy2349 said:

 He works so hard only time, but then can’t play at all on her time.

You both have equal rights as parents. You can do whatever you see fit when you have custody and she can do the same.

Do not make your son the battlefield for your custody issues. Try to coparent  more cooperatively without this tug-of-war. 

Make sure you have your child's best interests at heart and your hatred of and power struggle with the ex doesn't exceed your love for your child.

Step back and reflect. Stop arguing with your child's mother. Focus on providing love and understanding for your child.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Stret]

9 hours ago, Caliguy2349 said:

I have a son who loves tennis. He is 11. 
 

ex wife moved away when he was 8.  I had custody.   That’s when we started tennis.  He is a top player in the state. 
 

She moved back and we have 50/50.  I have control over extra curriculars. 
 

she tells him she is “supportive” yet does not let him play.  WilL not take him to a tournament.  Will not let me take him to lessons on her time.   Always a different excuse. 
 

this is having a negative affect on the child.  It’s also very hard for me to sign him up in a program.  She will Not communicate. 
 

 This seems to be a gray area in courts.  

what should we do?  Should I tell my son to forget his dreams?  He works so hard only time, but then can’t play at all on her time. 
 

 

As a former tennis player, I know what this means. I played every day and was one of the best in my country. I was a student champion later in life. And now, I compete in amateur leagues. People who comment here as if it is just about disagreement about parenting have no idea what sport means to a child that is good at it as your son. It takes blood sweat and tears to be a state champion and if a child is willing to give up everything and practice for hours every day to get there and go further, it just shows you what it means to him. As you said it, it is his dream and a major part of his life. If she is standing in his way and not letting him do it, she is not much of a mother - she is making it easier for herself by ruining her son's life and his future. He can get scholarship at any uni just based on his tennis, and even if he doesn't, it is a matter of maintaining physical fitness, socialising and fun times throughout life. People still play in their 70s. I'm in my 40s now and cannot imagine life without tennis. Neither can my childhood friends with whom I practiced as a child. It stays with you your whole life. You always come back to it. It keeps one healthy, away from unhealthy habits, and having something to do after work. That is what she is taking away from him and if he becomes bitter and angry and gets into bad company, starts doing drugs, etc, she will have contributed to it.  

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately, she doesn't have to talk to you. If you are unhappy with 50/50 custody you'll need to speak to your attorney, not her. 

However dragging your son through more conflict and litigation is not conducive to anything. Although not taking him to tennis lessons is hardly what courts would consider "abusive'.

Hating his mother and making him feel conflicted because of your needs and wants isn't helping him. Stop talking to the mother. Figure out a way to find neutral pick up and drop off places such as a relative. 

It's great he's athletic and very good at it. Do your best with that on your own time. You can't control him 100% of the time. You can't control your ex-wife at all. So what's left is remembering he didn't ask for the divorce and he's just a child.

PS. Played first singles through high school and college, love the sport. Your son will come around when you relax the hostility with his mother.

Edited November 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
remove quote

[FMW]

There seems to be only two options to try and get the outcome you want.  (1) Find a way to convince the mother.  It doesn't seem you will be successful with that on your own, but the idea of getting coaches or other third parties with the child's best interest in mind is the best chance.  (2) Talk to an attorney about possible legal options.  Family law attorneys in the United States do handle, this kind of thing, not sure where you are located.  Family Court Judges can Order sports participation if they feel it's in the child's best interest.  You would have to weigh this kind of action against any backlash from the mother that would negatively affect your son.    

Unfortunately you are limited in what power you have here with 50/50 custody.  If neither of the options to try and get what you want work, then for your son's sake - and your own - you will need to find some way to work within the constraints placed by the mother.  

I understand how important this is, but unfortunately you have to deal with the reality you find yourself in. 

[JTSW]

[ ]

 

@Caliguy2349 your son shouldn't have to give up his dream. 

Seek legal advice. Gather all evidence and statements from people who have said they see her behaviour as abusive.

Does your son have a phone? If so, get him to record/take pics of her just sitting on her phone and not paying any attention to him. 

She is clearly doing this deliberately and he is unhappy because of it.

Speak with a legal advisor. 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Argumentative

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, Caliguy2349 said:

  Will not let me take him to lessons on her time.   She will Not communicate. 

Please be careful with this.  Whatever you say or put in writing can be taken to her attorney and possibly misconstrued as custodial interference..

The court order is 50/50, so you'll need to abide by that. 

She doesn't have to communicate anything to you except essentials.

Please do not demonize his mother to him. He's just a child.

[Alpacalia]

12 hours ago, Caliguy2349 said:

Will not let me take him to lessons on her time.  

10 hours ago, Caliguy2349 said:

They are scheduled on my time

Maybe this is more or less the issue?

Your son is a good student, so I don't necessarily think that he should be prevented from playing the sport he loves, especially if it does not interfere with his studies.

The thing with this is scheduling this during her time is taking that parents right to parent away. Instead, your child needs to be communicating with the other parent that they wish to do a certain activity.

Remember, if you get to see your child 50/50 and then during the time when she has him, you're getting more quality time with the child then the other parent.

Set up the situation for success don’t answer for your ex. It is their choice and people are more likely to make a bipartisan decision if they actually get to be an active part of the process.

I think a good way to think about this is pretend like you are making a decision for someone else’s child if you are trying to organize something during his parenting time. You would never dream of calling the shots for important parenting decisions for a friend or a neighbor. So, maybe it's a matter of providing your ex with that level of boundary respect. If your child wants to ask for something don’t facilitate the asking. Let that happen organically. 

[Caliguy2349]

This is how it roles out.

His mother does not watch him play, or go to his matches. She has never played with him once. I have played with him over 1000 times.

So, during court proceedings she says "I am supportive! I will take him to practices! I love that he plays".

I NOW have decision making over extra curriculars.

So after years of practice he tried out for a top academy. His mom agreed on the schedule. He went all summer and this carried over into school.

The first Thursday she puts him in a dentist appointment instead. The next Thursday she says he has an eye appointment.  The next Thursday I get a letter from her attorney saying she doesn't have to take him.

So for the child, he already is attached to his friends there. His coach. the routine. It is not so easy to just pull him out. And I am paying for 100% of it. 

Prior to this, his mother MADE SURE he had 4 days of extra curriculars after school and signed him up in some swim that he hated. But the swim allowed her to drop both kids off and be free for 3 hours. Half the time my son was sitting alone in a baby center. But when it comes to tennis, and it is something he enjoys, then 4 days is "too much"

So, I have to let my son down and explain to him if he can't attend, I can't keep paying for it. While his mom says "Oh why can't he go? he can go on your days?"

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed content which was cleaned up

[Caliguy2349]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Maybe this is more or less the issue?

Your son is a good student, so I don't necessarily think that he should be prevented from playing the sport he loves, especially if it does not interfere with his studies.

The thing with this is scheduling this during her time is taking that parents right to parent away. Instead, your child needs to be communicating with the other parent that they wish to do a certain activity.

Remember, if you get to see your child 50/50 and then during the time when she has him, you're getting more quality time with the child then the other parent.

Set up the situation for success don’t answer for your ex. It is their choice and people are more likely to make a bipartisan decision if they actually get to be an active part of the process.

I think a good way to think about this is pretend like you are making a decision for someone else’s child if you are trying to organize something during his parenting time. You would never dream of calling the shots for important parenting decisions for a friend or a neighbor. So, maybe it's a matter of providing your ex with that level of boundary respect. If your child wants to ask for something don’t facilitate the asking. Let that happen organically. 

Well,

I have to find a place he fits into. A place that is local. And then a place that only has tennis on my days...  Its basically impossible.  Parents don't make the schedule. Programs and coaches do.  Tennis is more than a twice a week sport.  I love to watch him. its part of his life. 

Also, since my son is in tournaments, (that I made happen), she is free to see him on  my weekends. I am never afforded that opportunity because on her end he doesn't do anything on her weekends I can see.  That is sort of the trade off. Sure, she won't have him for 2 hours on a Thursday, but she can see him on my weekends. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Caliguy2349

[Caliguy2349]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Maybe this is more or less the issue?

Your son is a good student, so I don't necessarily think that he should be prevented from playing the sport he loves, especially if it does not interfere with his studies.

The thing with this is scheduling this during her time is taking that parents right to parent away. Instead, your child needs to be communicating with the other parent that they wish to do a certain activity.

Remember, if you get to see your child 50/50 and then during the time when she has him, you're getting more quality time with the child then the other parent.

Set up the situation for success don’t answer for your ex. It is their choice and people are more likely to make a bipartisan decision if they actually get to be an active part of the process.

I think a good way to think about this is pretend like you are making a decision for someone else’s child if you are trying to organize something during his parenting time. You would never dream of calling the shots for important parenting decisions for a friend or a neighbor. So, maybe it's a matter of providing your ex with that level of boundary respect. If your child wants to ask for something don’t facilitate the asking. Let that happen organically. 

I think this is another facet I didn't mention.  He has a 6 yr old half sister. His half sister plays soccer. 

So my son has to watch her every weekend he is there. . My son has to watch her practices. And if she does anything remotely well in the 6 yr old soccer, it is celebrated as a family all weekend.

meanwhile, if my son calls to tell her how he fought for 3 hours and won a huge match, it is met with "oh that's nice.  Did you know your sister did XYZ"

So in my house, I have more time for my son and he comes first. In her home the pecking order is husband who pays the bills, then her, then the daughter, then my son.   But she will never admit this.

So she just says "its too much tennis.. He doesn't want to.  We have plans". etc. Then later my son tells me none of it is true. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Caliguy2349