Deception in Open Relationship?

[Mindalin]

I am hoping someone in the ethical non-monogamous community can help me understand if I am in the wrong.

My husband and I have been in a "one sided" open relationship for 30 years. Due to ongoing sexual incompatibility issues, he has been going outside the marriage to let off steam. I do not. Ironically, I am the one with the previous history of open relationships and he believes strongly in monogamy. This is why if I was seeing anyone else, he would be crushed.

This is not the issue. I have recently discovered he has been having an emotional affair with a co-worker, this is after two previous physical affairs (where he was considering leaving me). The only boundaries I placed upon our open relationship was no emotional entanglements, no STDs, and transparency. We are in couples counselling for this.

This also is not the issue in question. Many years ago I had given my consent for him to hook up with my friend (another woman, not the co-worker). I thought that it had been a short lived tryst, but in our recent deep discussions about all of his lies, it turns out that it is still ongoing. Neither of them had let me know that it was still happening. I have told him that I am now second guessing where and when they could have met all these years and what lies he told me to cover his ass. He says he didn't want to "put it in my face" since we were/are having serious problems.

I have told him that this is a lie of omission. That he had to intentionally deceive me about his whereabouts and who he was with is the crux of the problem.

My concern is that since this AP is a long time friend, I don't know how much responsibility also rests with her to have kept me in the loop. She is part of a very complicated polyamorous cluster and I don't know the usual etiquette about communication between the different hierarchies, especially since I am his primary as well as being her friend.

I don't know if I should talk to her. I don't know if I should be mad at her. In retrospect, she asked for my permission to pursue him and hasn't really interacted with me very much since. I know that they talk all the time but she rarely reaches out to me. I feel like a fool and that I have been taken advantage of, that maybe she wants to be my sort of acquaintance in order to get to be with my husband. He has told me that she wants to be emotionally involved which tells me that she probably already feels inclined that way.

Am I in the wrong? This would have been quite a bit to handle without it piled on top of the the other affairs. But I feel betrayed by my husband as well as my "friend".

[NuevoYorko]

What part of this complicated and subversive arrangement serves you in any way?

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, Mindalin said:

Am I in the wrong? This would have been quite a bit to handle without it piled on top of the the other affairs. But I feel betrayed by my husband as well as my "friend".

I am not in an open relationship and would never willingly enter into one. But I think the fundamentals of relationships are the same: when an agreed-upon boundary is crossed, then that constitutes betrayal. So you're not in the wrong for feeling betrayed.

It also sounds like you never seriously contemplated what you would do if your husband betrayed you. 3 or more betrayals down the line, and here you still are. I'm not sure what is keeping you in the marriage, but perhaps it's time to start contemplating whether it's worth staying. Your husband and you are definitely not compatible in this particular way. You are better off with someone who shares your view of what an open relationship is and is committed to living up to it. And your husband should be free to roam the plains with other "monogamous" people.

[emotionallybroken9]

I’ve been in an open and poly relationship. 
 

Yours is not a relationship. It’s just a mess

First of all, toss out the idea that anyone is wrong. Here it’s a simple case of a woman who won’t leave a terrible partner for reasons only she can identify. 
 

let’s see. You’ve been in an open relationship for 30 years. You say you’re the one in relationships before. I’m gonna guess you’re around 50? 
 

Not sure if you have kids from what you’ve written. 
 

So… why on god’s green earth are you still with this guy? 
 

Are you financially dependant on him?

Do you have kids together? 
 

Are you afraid of trying again to find another man after being in a relationship for 30 years and the thought of starting at 50 terrifies the s*** out of you? 
 

is he super rich and fun and that’s why you’re putting up with his disrespect for 10+ years? Who knows how long he’s been getting side action…

 

Honestly, and I’m so sorry to say this, but it’s waaaaaay too late to try and fix this. It’s been 30 years… AND he already has a woman ready and waiting for him. 
 

Im not even sure what you’re looking for here. You will let him have sex with anyone as long as he isn’t emotionally attached? That’s such empty sex for so long, and it gets boring. Might as well just buy a sex doll 😕 

Have you considered being in a poly with him and her? I don’t know why not give that a try! It might be good for you and him to be emotionally satisfied, for you to have your friend back, and for them to start including you on dates and outings! 
 

You’re okay with him having sex with others cuz you love him, right? And even though you’re not attracted to him like that, you love him enough to let him date others for his physical needs. Well, now you can considering being a part of your love’s world too  

 

Who knows, you might grow to like him and her, and it could bring a spark back down under  

Thats my advice for ya. Your initial setup is just too messy and one sided. 
 

Either be together or try to move on! Don’t be stuck in limbo hell forever ~

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Mindalin said:

 what lies he told me to cover his ass. 

My concern is that since this AP is a long time friend, I don't know how much responsibility also rests with her to have kept me in the loop. 

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately this sounds more like condoned cheating because he is using deception and there's nothing "open" about that.

It's hurting you. You both know that, no matter what types of arrangements you agreed to.

[glows]

The problem is that you’re poly (or have been in the past) and your spouse isn’t. He thinks and feels like a monogamous person and doubtful he has any idea how to conduct himself in more than one relationship. What he and your friend have been doing is plain cheating or bending the truth, not entirely open at all. 

Your friend is unlikely to care or feel much remorse about what’s happening if it’s been happening for some time. Why would you expect the truth from her especially if you feel she’s more of an acquaintance than any friend? It doesn’t sound like she respects you at all if she’s failed those conditions about no emotional attachment although I’m guessing you mean attachment that supercedes your relationship with your husband. 

Primary this and that will sound like gobbledygook to individuals hardwired to be monogamous. They don’t think like you or someone poly would.

I also want to add that “no emotional attachment” is unusual and not what poly is about either most of the time. People develop care and affection and are able to love more than one person and there is a great deal of emotional attachment in multiple relationships. Those relationships ideally are also tremendously respectful of one another and all parties involved. Crossing boundaries is a huge no, clandestine meetings and hidden meanings also a massive huge no. I would take another look at your criteria or the way you view poly relationships as it’s not very realistic. No emotional attachment means sexual or physical favours and activities only but that’s not what being poly is. What the above describes is multiple f*ck buddies and nothing else, not being poly.

I’d try determining if there’s anything in the marriage worth staying for as it sounds like boundaries have been crossed and relationships have become confusing. Are you sure you’re not holding onto your husband out of convenience rather than divorcing and finding someone more compatible?

Edited December 2, 2022 by glows

[mark clemson]

I think if you'd want to get answers from the polyamorous community, you should go to a site dedicated to that community, rather than a general one.

That said, since your friend and husband are both carrying on without your knowledge (and thus without your consent, except in perhaps only the most technical sense) I suspect many if not most would agree you're not in the wrong to feel "betrayed" and/or boundaries crossed by both. Since you were unaware of what they were doing, you didn't have an opportunity to say no to it. Thus you were not allowed an opportunity for consent.

IF you had consented to an ongoing, open-ended series of actions between the two of them without any updating of information to you and with emotional entanglement, then you could be considered to have consented. But of course you didn't consent to anything like that, as few people ever would.

There is such a thing as a "look the other way" marriage. However, even with them I imagine there is at least a tacit understanding of "non-interference" between the couple, and it doesn't sound like you have that either.

So, basically your husband is simply cheating on you with the friend.

Edited December 2, 2022 by mark clemson

[Els]

Blame your husband, not your friend. It's not realistically possible for her to know what was and wasn't consented between the two of you, especially if she already knows you are poly. Obviously your husband was wrong for not being truthful to you, but there's no way for her to know what he told you.

Also, errr, an "open relationship" where one person (your husband) wants to see other people but would be "crushed" if you did the same, is not really ethical monogamy.

[Lotsgoingon]

Yes, I think your husband is the person who betrayed you (if I accept your feeling of betrayal). Your friend most likely got from your husband that continually meeting was OK with you.

Now let's back up. I assume that an open relationship will have partners having on-going sex with people outside the marriage. You thought they had a short tryst. What does that mean? A few times over a month? Once?

You're in the land of chaos unfortunately where setting boundaries gets really difficult. Things are so complicated that you'd have to hire an experienced lawyer to lay out the rules .

Now let's get back to you. What do YOU want in this marriage? You seem to be reacting and you said you don't want anything open. But you need SOMETHING to want to stay in the marriage. Seems like you're a rock, with no movement or interest. You got to create your life. What are you doing for you? Doesn't have to be sex. But needs to be something!

[stillafool]

17 hours ago, Mindalin said:

In retrospect, she asked for my permission to pursue him and hasn't really interacted with me very much since.

So basically she asked for your permission, you gave it and she's doing what she told you she would do with your permission.

 

17 hours ago, Mindalin said:

He has told me that she wants to be emotionally involved which tells me that she probably already feels inclined that way.

She's more than likely in love with him.

[BaileyB]

You gave your permission for your husband to engage in extramarital affairs and he has not respected your boundaries. 

Note, I did not use the term an open marriage because to me, that means that it’s consensual and there is trust, open communication, and mutual benefits for both partners. I don’t believe that’s what you have here.

And your friend is clearly not a friend, if she is engaged in a secretive relationship with your husband. 

If it was me, I would take the money you are spending on counselling and file for divorce. There is no happiness or peace of mind to be found in this marriage - at least, there wouldn’t be for me. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by BaileyB

[NuevoYorko]

19 hours ago, Mindalin said:

He has told me that she wants to be emotionally involved

Your boundary prohibiting "emotional entanglements" is impossible to maintain.  People who have an ongoing sexual relationship often develop emotional attachments.   Once that happens, do you honestly think that they're going to break it off because of the boundary that's been crossed?  Too late.

Honestly, you'd be better off if you and your husband would simply agree that he's free to pay sex workers.   

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Your boundary prohibiting "emotional entanglements" is impossible to maintain.  People who have an ongoing sexual relationship often develop emotional attachments. 

Especially when you consider that the person he is entangled with is your friend. Two boundaries crossed - 

I think people mistakenly believe that open relationships don’t have boundaries. Not true. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by BaileyB

[Mindalin]

Thank you, I really appreciate everyone's sincere replies.

I know that I am the one getting the short end of the stick here. There are children involved (4) and I would not be able to be financially independent. I have tried to leave before and have been considering it again for some time, so I no longer feel that those things are holding me back.

The marriage is "open" not poly. My expressed expectation was that there would be one night stands and short trysts (as in a few encounters, not months or years) as we agreed that he was allowed to relieve his sexual tension outside the marriage. I am not naive to think that emotions wouldn't begin to surface if the physical encounters were on-going.

I suggested the sex dolls and the sex workers (although I was concerned about STDs). These were not what he was interested in.

I know that I have been played. I am seriously weighing my options. My immediate concern was how to face my "friend" who I am seeing tomorrow. I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now, but I guess we are in for an awkward conversation no matter how you cut it.

Note: I did register for an account on Polyamory.com. I never received the confirmation email and am unable to post messages. I thought you all seemed to be a friendly and supportive bunch.

[NuevoYorko]

How are you being "played"?   You really cannot control how people behave with one another.  It's naive to believe that you have ever had  control.

The situations that you have created with your husband really are a mess but you have had choices for at minimum 30 years and your life today reflects the choices you've made.   

Why not just clean house.   Drop all of these people and complicated scenarios and get your own life in order, the way you'd like it to be.  Let husband go in peace, same with the friend, let them figure themselves out.  Neither one of them has anything to offer you, at least not as you're describing things.

[BaileyB]

23 minutes ago, Mindalin said:

There are children involved (4) and I would not be able to be financially independent. I have tried to leave before and have been considering it again for some time, so I no longer feel that those things are holding me back.

Have you spoken with a lawyer? I’m assuming that your children are adults now? Even if that is true, you have been married for a long time… you are entitled to half of all marital assets in addition to what I would assume would be a fairly significant spousal support. Definitely talk with a lawyer to get the information you need to make a decision.

As for the “friend,” I wouldn’t say a word to her tomorrow. She wouldn’t be worth my time or emotional energy at this point… I’d be done with her. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Mindalin said:

I know that I am the one getting the short end of the stick here. There are children involved (4) and I would not be able to be financially independent. I have tried to leave before 

How old are the children? Have you consulted an attorney privately and confidentiality about your options in the event of divorce?

You're not happy. Even if he's open about his extramarital affairs it doesn't make it lifestyle. 

Don't blame your friend. The only way out of the pain is to be out of a marriage with someone like this.

Another good place to unpack and sort this out is with a therapist. This way you can privately and confidentiality discuss your real feelings about this and develop a plan to finally leave this hurtful and humiliating marriage.

It's not about wrapping your head around all the various nonmonogamous options, it's about being happy and free from pain caused by this.

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not about wrapping your head around all the various nonmonogamous options, it's about being happy and free from pain caused by this.

Indeed. At the end of the day, you have the right to be happy too -

You have been exceptionally open minded about your husband’s desire to have sex outside the marriage. There is no medal for the wife who is the most tolerant and the most forgiving… This kind of lifestyle does not work for everyone and I personally see little benefit for you - except, you get to keep the comfort of your marriage… but, at what cost to your mental health? 

[stillafool]

11 hours ago, Mindalin said:

There are children involved (4) and I would not be able to be financially independent.

Being married for 30 years aren't your children grown by now?

[Lotsgoingon]

Care careful about saying you are "being played." Saying that can really be a way of insulting ourselves right when we're at our most vulnerable and unhappy.

You came here and posted your problem. That took a lot of confidence to be that open. You write without meanness about your husband, even when you feel betrayed. This is a touch situation you're in. 

My theory of open relationships (all relationships) is that you really need to have one or two people in your life that you share EVERYTHING with. Now, might be you share about X problem with Mary and Y problem with Paula. But I have seen in my own life that when I don't share my situation with others my brain gets overwhelmed, my thinking narrows, I end up shooting myself in the foot. A good friend could comfort you right now and make suggestions because the friend will have kept up with what's going on along the way. 

Back to you, though: what do you want in your life? And I'm not assuming you have to end the marriage to get it. I say focus on what you really want and on building that ... and that focus can help think about the specific matters of your marriage. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Lotsgoingon