Girl I'm dating and her close guy friends

[poppyfields]

On 12/7/2022 at 5:03 AM, MrEkko said:

For example, I knew she was planning on going to her hometown for Christmas to be with her parents. They don't have room for her in their place and when she goes there she has to sleep in the couch, so last week she told me the plan now is to get an apartment close to her parents with a guy friend from uni (who has some issues with his family and won't be with them for Christmas). I was quite surprised with that as it was unexpected; one day I think she is going to be with her family and now she will be staying at an apartment with a guy friend. I suppose it's for the logistics and it works better but I can't help feeling uneasy about it. She had invited me to join for Christmas (when it was gonna be just her with the parents), but that was mostly because she knew I hadn't made any plans for it. When I told her I still have no plans for it, she said they have room in the apartment and I can join them.

@MrEkko, call me crazy but with respect to the bolded, this sounds totally legit to me. 

He's been a friend since childhood.  If nothing romantic has happened between them in all that time, I think it's safe to assume it's not going to.  She may feel about him like she would a brother.

It's not an hotel room, it's an apartment and she stated there is plenty of room for you to join.  Perhaps partly because she knew you didn't have plans but also because she may have wanted to spend the holidays with you AND introduce you to her long time friend, who happens to be male.  All good and positive imo.

I am curious why you didn't take her up on her offer? Would that not have resolved your concern about it?    

You state you are not ready to meet her parents yet, which is fine, but own it and don't make it sound like she's out of line doing any of this.  You are the one who turned down her offer which had you accepted, would have alleviated your anxiety about it.  And perhaps made friends with him as well.

It's funny a part of me thinks after three months you have grown quite attached, and as such you feel vulnerable and a bit "scared" and using this as an justifiable excuse to dump her.  And not appear like the "bad guy."

Self-sabotage in a way.  Any truth to that?

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[Acacia98]

@MrEkko, this is a compatibility issue. It bugs you enough to give you pause and cause you to ask about it on an online forum. So I see it as being similar to wanting to have kids and dating someone who's indicated they do not want kids in casual conversation. If it bugs you now, it's not going to bug you less 1 year down the line.

If I were in your shoes, I would give myself two options: 1. I'd bring it up now, facing the risk that it would make her upset and cause things to end between us, or 2. I'd end things between us without mentioning it at all.

P.S. I don't know whether I should even bother mentioning this, but I think it's premature to try and convince yourself that she either would or wouldn't cheat on you. Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. You have no idea. So set that aside. Just focus on the boundaries issue. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Acacia98

[MrEkko]

15 hours ago, glows said:

So why haven’t you already? No need for the great deal of analysis. It should have been mentioned way back but you held back. The woman’s been busy living her life and you’re second guessing yourself. 

Because of this:

15 hours ago, glows said:

Being open and honest is important but not to the point where at 3 months in you’re both having grave and serious concerns or discussions about friends of the opposite sex.

I am conscious that it's too early to bring it up, don't know when these thoughts are appropriate to be expressed, hence why I am asking for people's input.

[MrEkko]

9 hours ago, poppyfields said:

It's funny a part of me thinks after three months you have grown quite attached, and as such you feel vulnerable and a bit "scared" and using this as an justifiable excuse to dump her.  And not appear like the "bad guy."

Well, I really like her otherwise I wouldn't even care that much and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I am not thinking of an excuse to dump her at all, it's actually the opposite. I am trying to find the best course of action here and not ruin something good but at the same time be comfortable in the situation. 

[MrEkko]

8 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

@MrEkko, this is a compatibility issue. It bugs you enough to give you pause and cause you to ask about it on an online forum. So I see it as being similar to wanting to have kids and dating someone who's indicated they do not want kids in casual conversation. If it bugs you now, it's not going to bug you less 1 year down the line.

If I were in your shoes, I would give myself two options: 1. I'd bring it up now, facing the risk that it would make her upset and cause things to end between us, or 2. I'd end things between us without mentioning it at all.

P.S. I don't know whether I should even bother mentioning this, but I think it's premature to try and convince yourself that she either would or wouldn't cheat on you. Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. You have no idea. So set that aside. Just focus on the boundaries issue. 

Yeah, spot on, this is how I see it as well. I am not thinking about the concept of cheating because a) she has given no reason not to be trustworthy, and b) we agree that this can happen by anyone in anytime. It's the boundaries thing that I am thinking about. 

[Alpacalia]

At some point you're going to have to bite the bullet and let her know the things you’re not comfortable with — for instance, your discomfort with her hanging out one-on-one in an apartment together — and have an open discussion about it.

Be careful, though, because it's fine to have these conversations once or twice, but if you expect her to reassure you on a daily basis, that is going to become a major problem.

You'll need to be able to have an open communication platform that includes tough topics without judgement.

To echo some of the other comments though, if she chooses to go down this road regardless of your feelings, it would be wrong of you to try and force her to acquiesce. If you did and succeed, it will eventually destroy your relationship. If you try to force her and she doesn't agree, that will be the end anyway.

[Wiseman2]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:03 AM, MrEkko said:

  chances are she won't want to change her habits for someone she's going out with for 3 months..

Unfortunately I agree with this. She made the plans unilaterally. 

She is presenting herself as she is. It's time to reflect if her choices and judgements are right for you 

This isn't about male/female friends. This is about you being more in the periphery than you think if her decisions are told to you after the fact.

Although at 12 weeks dating, she certainly isn't going to ask your permission to share a BNB with a friend in order to see her parents.

Keep in mind these people have been in her life much longer than you have. If you do tell her your concerns, she will tell her friends and family that her new BF doesn't like this or allow that, and they'll simply tell her you're controlling or possessive, so sadly it's a lose-lose situation for you.

Reconsider if you two are incompatible when it comes to honest communication and values.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Wiseman2

[BaileyB]

Could you not tell her that you hope that she has a wonderful time at home with her family over the holidays… and that you are also looking forward to celebrating your first holiday together.

But then ask, moving forward, how does she expect things to play out with respect to both of your friendships. You can be kind and tell her that these are long standing friendships, neither of you want to lose these relationships because they are important. But - does she see that you would be blended into these friendships? Ie. Do her friends want to get to know you and would you be invited along? How would you make time for your relationship and how does she think she will balance everything - work, family, friendships, relationship. And then, you can ask - how does she feel about staying over/travelling with members of the opposite sex? Would she have any concerns if you chose to travel with another woman? Where would she set that boundary? And then, you can tell her where you would set that boundary…

Personally, I would ask questions and listen very closely to what she says. It’s possible that she’s just never considered it from another perspective before. Her response will tell you whether this is going to be an issue in your relationship, or whether there is incentive to compromise. And if it’s a hard no, this is what she plans to do moving forward - then you will have to weigh how much that will bother you and make your own decision. 

I just want to reiterate - you are not being unreasonable if you expect that your girlfriend will not travel or spend weekends alone with other men. I dare say, many people (men and women) would have a problem if their partner/spouse was doing this on an ongoing basis. It is about boundaries and it is about finding the partner who has similar thoughts about healthy relationship boundaries. 

[MrEkko]

35 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Could you not tell her that you hope that she has a wonderful time at home with her family over the holidays… and that you are also looking forward to celebrating your first holiday together.

But then ask, moving forward, how does she expect things to play out with respect to both of your friendships. You can be kind and tell her that these are long standing friendships, neither of you want to lose these relationships because they are important. But - does she see that you would be blended into these friendships? Ie. Do her friends want to get to know you and would you be invited along? How would you make time for your relationship and how does she think she will balance everything - work, family, friendships, relationship. And then, you can ask - how does she feel about staying over/travelling with members of the opposite sex? Would she have any concerns if you chose to travel with another woman? Where would she set that boundary? And then, you can tell her where you would set that boundary…

Personally, I would ask questions and listen very closely to what she says. It’s possible that she’s just never considered it from another perspective before. Her response will tell you whether this is going to be an issue in your relationship, or whether there is incentive to compromise. And if it’s a hard no, this is what she plans to do moving forward - then you will have to weigh how much that will bother you and make your own decision. 

I just want to reiterate - you are not being unreasonable if you expect that your girlfriend will not travel or spend weekends alone with other men. I dare say, many people (men and women) would have a problem if their partner/spouse was doing this on an ongoing basis. It is about boundaries and it is about finding the partner who has similar thoughts about healthy relationship boundaries. 

Thank you for your input, that’s a very good suggestion and approach. 

[poppyfields]

OP, context is everything, or at least very important.

The context here is he is a long time "friend" since childhood.  HE happens to be a man.

Instead of focusing on him being a friend, you're focusing on him being a man, and you feel uncomfortable or even threatened by that. 

If this friend were female, no problem.  If this man were her brother or cousin, no problem.

Perhaps if you were to somehow change your frame of reference from "he's a man" to "he's a friend," it may help?

Just a suggestion.

Edit:  You also stated some of her male friends were gay.  Would you feel differently if you learned this friend were gay? 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[BaileyB]

On 12/7/2022 at 7:03 AM, MrEkko said:

last week she told me the plan now is to get an apartment close to her parents with a guy friend from uni.

She said that her family have met him once, so it's not like he's a close family or childhood friend

Perhaps I’m missing something Poppy, but I don’t think this is an old childhood friend. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by BaileyB

[poppyfields]

8 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Perhaps I’m missing something Poppy, but I don’t think this is an old childhood friend. 

Hmmm, no you're not, I am! 

Missed that post, thanks for quoting it.  All this time I thought he was a friend since childhood, my bad. 

It does change things. 

[MrEkko]

17 hours ago, poppyfields said:

OP, context is everything, or at least very important.

The context here is he is a long time "friend" since childhood.  HE happens to be a man.

Instead of focusing on him being a friend, you're focusing on him being a man, and you feel uncomfortable or even threatened by that. 

If this friend were female, no problem.  If this man were her brother or cousin, no problem.

Perhaps if you were to somehow change your frame of reference from "he's a man" to "he's a friend," it may help?

Just a suggestion.

Edit:  You also stated some of her male friends were gay.  Would you feel differently if you learned this friend were gay? 

 

 

He is a friend from university not childhood, I don’t know anything else about him. 
And yes, I wouldn’t mind if it were a woman or a gay guy because I know that there’s no way they feel any sexual attraction to her or waiting for an opportunity.  

[Wiseman2]

51 minutes ago, MrEkko said:

, I wouldn’t mind if it were a woman or a gay guy because I know that there’s no way they feel any sexual attraction to her or waiting for an opportunity.  

Unfortunately if you feel this shared accomodation is "an opportunity", there's a lot of distrust and suspicion in your budding relationship.

While she is away you may want to take that time to reevaluate your relationship and if you two are compatible as far as decision making, judgement and communication.

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately if you feel this shared accomodation is "an opportunity", there's a lot of distrust and suspicion in your budding relationship.

Is it a matter of trust or is it simply normal for a man to expect that his girlfriend would not stay with/spend the holiday with another man?

Also to note, this is not the only time - I can’t seem to quote but here is the quote from the first post

Another example is she is going abroad for her gay best friend's wedding in the spring and she will have a stopover to see another guy friend who lives abroad and stay with him for a couple of days. 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by BaileyB

[poppyfields]

OP, I'm going to change my stance a bit on this after learning he's a friend from Uni and that she's got another male friend abroad she will be staying with. 

Putting the trust issue aside, this girl needs to learn proper boundaries when in a relationship and what respecting the relationship AND you as her boyfriend means. 

I mean she'd have to be a complete moron to not realize that spending the night with a relatively new male "friend" (not a childhood friend as I thought earlier) would be troublesome to a new boyfriend (you) and find other accommodations.

And the way she tells you about it like she has no clue how it might affect you, as her new boyfriend with whom you're both trying to establish trust, suggests such a total lack of social awareness, it's mind-boggling 

While I do believe men and women can be friends; as stated earlier, I recently made a new male friend who I quickly introduced to my husband, we double-dated and now they're friends, I would never ever plan an overnight with him, even though there is no sexual attraction and it's 100% platonic.

Why?

Because it's disrespectful to my husband to even suggest such a thing and expect him.to be OK with it. 

I trust myself and also my friend that nothing would happen, that's not the issue.

I would never do it out of respect and courtesy for my husband.

And if he were a boyfriend again with whom we are trying to establish proper boundaries and trust, and even afterwards. same thing. 

It's called being socially aware and respectful. 

I'm wondering now if she has some sort of social learning disability such that she's totally unaware how this may affect you. 

Either that or she's playing you for a fool.

Again, long time friend since childhood, akin to a brother, would be totally different.

My advice is to walk away now.  I don't envision anything good or positive arising from having  any sort of "talk" with her. 

When someone you're dating is THIS clueless and socially unaware of what constitutes proper behavior within the context of an exclusive relationship or they simply don't care, the best thing to do is leave them (her and her male friends spending the night) to it, and walk away. 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by poppyfields

[MrEkko]

58 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

it a matter of trust or is it simply normal for a man to expect that his girlfriend would not stay with/spend the holiday with another man?

Exactly how I see it.

[MrEkko]

20 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

OP, I'm going to change my stance a bit on this after learning he's a friend from Uni and that she's got another male friend abroad she will be staying with. 

Putting the trust issue aside, this girl needs to learn proper boundaries when in a relationship and what respecting the relationship AND you as her boyfriend means. 

I mean she'd have to be a complete moron to not realize that spending the night with a relatively new male "friend" (not a childhood friend as I thought earlier) would be troublesome to a new boyfriend (you) and find other accommodations.

And the way she tells you about it like she has no clue how it might affect you, as her new boyfriend with whom you're both trying to establish trust, suggests such a total lack of social awareness, it's mind-boggling 

While I do believe men and women can be friends; as stated earlier, I recently made a new male friend who I quickly introduced to my husband, we double-dated and now they're friends, I would never ever plan an overnight with him, even though there is no sexual attraction and it's 100% platonic.

Why?

Because it's disrespectful to my husband to even suggest such a thing and expect him.to be OK with it. 

I trust myself and also my friend that nothing would happen, that's not the issue.

I would never do it out of respect and courtesy for my husband.

And if he were a boyfriend again with whom we are trying to establish proper boundaries and trust, and even afterwards. same thing. 

It's called being socially aware and respectful. 

I'm wondering now if she has some sort of social learning disability such that she's totally unaware how this may affect you. 

Either that or she's playing you for a fool.

Again, long time friend since childhood, akin to a brother, would be totally different.

My advice is to walk away now.  I don't envision anything good or positive arising from having  any sort of "talk" with her. 

When someone you're dating is THIS clueless and socially unaware of what constitutes proper behavior within the context of an exclusive relationship or they simply don't care, the best thing to do is leave them (her and her male friends spending the night) to it, and walk away. 

 

 

I think you can see where I’m coming from now, thank you. I don’t know what the boundaries were in her previous relationships, maybe her exes were totally fine with this, and the fact that I kept a straight face and didn’t make much of it when she told me the upcoming plans made her think that I’m fine too, hence she hasn’t considered this at all. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by MrEkko

[Stret]

As to the question "is it a matter of trust or is it normal to expect... " - it is definitely a matter of trust. Would you rather have a gf that is open and friendly, and committed to you, and who sometimes visits male friends, or a gf who is surrounded with women only and who will, one day cheat on you without you ever knowing? See, there are no guarantees. It is a matter of trust and a matter of who the person is. 

Definitely don't walk away from someone good if all it takes is for you to tell her it bothers you and she will, if she is the right person for you, take that into account and will not repeat it. Problem solved. But if you are going to restrict her more and more in what she can and cannot do and whom and how she can be friends, maybe you're not the guy for her. 

Earlier, I shared my experiences and told you that I even shared a bed in some circumstances with male friends - it never occurred to me to cheat in any committed relationship. I would never stay at someone's place who could even think to try something with me. She might be like that. She might be willing to change that for you and it might be easy to do for her because it is not what defines her or her life. You reduced her to that due to your own insecurity and inability to see anything beyond that. Find someone very conservative, but again, no guarantees. 

I see the issue here but not with her so much as with you. You've made a mountain out of a molehill. She might need a more self confident guy, a more intuitive guy who will see who she is and will not accuse her of creating situations that can lead to infidelity. Those situations are everywhere, in the gym, at work, while traveling, etc. She could have just gone out with a friend for a drink to catch up and ended up with him in bed, all while staying at her parents' place like a good girl. Cheaters will cheat, and faithful will stay faithful, regardless of the circumstances. Nobody here can tell you differently and be right. Most people on this forum are quick to advise people to leave someone instead to see that maybe it is a matter of a talk and adjustment...that someone seems perfect in your case. Will you regret if you leave her for absolutely nothing? If not, then leave her right now because she deserves better. If yes, then don't. Give it a proper chance so you can tell yourself you've tried everything. 

 

[Alpacalia]

Despite her invitation, you declined. If she wanted to be alone with this person, why invite you?

She could have made alternate accommodations for herself. But she didn't.

Perhaps it's best at this juncture to consider whether or not she is unnecessarily creating situations where you have to worry and stress about what she is doing.

Don't try to be someone else, be yourself and if being yourself means that you are not comfortable with her chillin with another dude all weekend, let her know that this is not the type of relationship you want.

If she goes anyway, then that's okay. If spending a weekend with another man is more important than fixing what you have together, then the whole thing was going to end up crashing and burning right from the beginning.

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Stret said:

You've made a mountain out of a molehill. She might need a more self confident guy, a more intuitive guy who will see who she is and will not accuse her of creating situations that can lead to infidelity. 

 

Agree.

 

[Wiseman2]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:03 AM, MrEkko said:

. She had invited me to join for Christmas but. both times was to politely decline because I wouldn't want to crash a family holiday or meet her parents at this point anyway 

This part stood out. After 3 mos you don't want to meet her family. That might be a huge red flag for her or them. So it's odd you're more concerned with policing her friendships than solidifying your relationship in other ways.

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This part stood out. After 3 mos you don't want to meet her family. That might be a huge red flag for her or them. So it's odd you're more concerned with policing her friendships than solidifying your relationship in other ways.

Wholeheartedly agree! 

And why do you feel three months is too soon?  Clearly SHE didn't think so and your declining her invite was/is a red flag for HER.

It doesn't mean you're obligated to marry her, but when a couple decides to become exclusive, and three months is plenty of time to determine that, meeting parents and spending a big holiday together is not "too soon" for most couples.

This whole sitch could have been resolved had you accepted her invite and suggested you and she get your own hotel room together and spend the holiday with her parents. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by poppyfields

[smackie9]

This is her lifestyle, and part of who she is. Ya sure when we really start to like someone there will always be some kind of jealousy. She sounds like an amazing person to have such a variety of friends. Staying over visiting is something she probably has done many times before and respectfully has set boundaries.

You need to stop being passive aggressive...Just because the accommodations are not ideal for the Christmas visit, doesn't mean you should get your back up about it and decline. Be positive, and accept the invite. You want to score points with this lovely lady, you better make the effort to meet those who are important to her, with a warm smile and a friendly handshake before you pass judgment.

Edited December 11, 2022 by smackie9

[Juha]

You definitely dropped the ball on this one.  Your GF of 3 months asks you to come spend Christmas with her and her family and you decline?

I do not really understand why you did that to be honest, you have a woman who is into you and having a relationship with you and you snub her like that.

I would not be surprised if she is not evaluating her relationship with you.

I would, think we all would love to hear an update as to what happened

 

I wish you luck and hope all worked out