Abused, lonely, stuck in a rut. Is there a way for me to build a good life?

[Cute-Frog339]

I'm a 29 year old guy who's struggling with life right now, and I feel at my wits end. Today has been particularly hard for me, so I'm hoping I get a few responses as I don't have anyone else to talk to.

On paper, I have a lot going for me. I'm educated, working a career I'm passionate for. I have my health, and a few hobbies to keep myself occupied. I have a roof over my head, a family and friends, which I'm grateful for despite the downsides (see below). I'm of good character, and people have described me as "confident", "charismatic", "a people person", and "handsome".

My home life is dreadful. My father abused me and my mum over the years, and is a borderline alcoholic. Although the severity of this has changed over the years, the toxic atmosphere remains - I can't go a day without hearing some negative comment, criticism, or some form of gaslighting. My mum, who's not without her faults, is the only person I can confide in, but even then she's so emotionally absent it's a waste of time. Neither of them will ever take responsibility for themselves, and I don't intend to fix them, but it's difficult having this awareness whilst also sharing the same roof. Of course, the intention is to leave, but for the time being (and with there being a cost-of-living crisis), it's not viable for me to leave for a good few months yet

Meanwhile, I have very few friends. The few friends that I do have live hundreds of miles away and have their own busy lives, so emotional support from them is hard to come by. I've tried meeting new people through events like concerts, meetup etc, but at best I've made superficial acquaintances that I don't speak to outside of these situations, all the while watching everyone else build good quality connections.

I've not dated in ten years. Despite being a good person, attractive, etc etc, women have never paid any attention to me. I'm coming up to thirty and have almost written off relationships altogether, because I don't want to be the guy who gets settled for later in life. I find myself feeling confused, jealous and frustrated knowing that people are able to go out, hook up, get dates and such like, almost as if it's an area of life I'm not allowed to experience. Aside from one experience - I met her online several months ago. I won't go into all the details, but despite being such a lovely human being and us both liking each other, there were so bad red flags on her end that I had to walk away. And it's been a struggle, knowing I loved myself enough not to allow myself to be treated poorly, but losing a good friend / potential partner in the process.

A few nights back, this all really got me to as I sat in a pub. I watched as everyone around me hung out with their friends, or made new ones. I was sad to see any attractive girl, because I felt I would never have a chance. I ended up sitting in my car for a few hours, tears streaming down my face, confused and lonely. When I feel like this, my go-to way of dealing with it is porn. It's a coping mechanism to numb the pain. I've currently clean by a month, but today has been particularly challenging and I hope writing this out will help me deal with the emotions.

I do see a therapist, and it is helping to a degree, but I feel like such a broken human right now, I'm struggling to see that there will ever be any light in my life. The "solution" to my problem, of course, is to undo all the baggage from my upbringing, learn to accept my emotions and ultimately love myself. But it's difficult, because I do a lot right in life as well (put myself out there, work out etc), and it all seems for nothing.

I'm not sure if I'm looking for advice or friendship or a success story, but someone to reach out to me would be appreciated. Thank you.

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Hopefully others can speak to the abuse situation.

On the women front, you should understand that there's a tendency for women to respond a lot to what you might call "psychological" cues. So, emotional health as evidenced by confidence, independence, and emotional security. There are those women looking for a "fixer upper" but they are a subset and so the odds are not particularly good.

"Loving yourself" while certainly a worthy goal, will NOT net you a partner, and I'd bet there's plenty of people in the world who love themselves just fine, but nonetheless don't have romantic partners.

Women tend to want an "alpha-ish" independent and confident man who then shows interest (but not too much interest and/or emotional dependence, particularly at first) and then "chooses" her. You are probably giving off an emotional vibe that is not particularly appealing to them. Completely understandable, given your situation, however this doesn't change the "rules" people tend to play by.

Attractiveness is also important, so if you have that, you might turn things around by "faking it til you make it" and/or working on a "persona" so to speak. Dig deep and find that part of you that is fearless, witty and conversational, and just a bit of a bad boy. Make yourself as attractive as possible, e.g. with haircut and decent casual clothes, and let your words, actions, and even mannerisms, body language and stride exude confidence. No slumped shoulders or awkward staring without saying anything. AND be perfectly happy to walk away.

It's acting to some extent, but that's ok. You didn't invent the rules of the biological game. At any rate, genuinely project THAT around women and you will probably get plenty who are interested in getting to know you. Also avoid pubs - at least as a place to meet women. They are full of distractions and other men competing with you. Ideally you meet someone who's alone and can fully focus on this great catch who showed up and, after some conversation, fell right into her lap. Just don't start a conversation unless she gives a "tell" such as a look or broad smile that she at least might be potentially interested. And if you misread, just walk away with a polite excuse, it's the socially appropriate thing to do, and doing otherwise is a waste of time anyhow.

The above is easier said than done I certainly concede, but I assure you that, particularly if you have decent looks as a base to start from, it's 100% possible.

Edited December 17, 2022 by mark clemson

[Cute-Frog339]

12 hours ago, mark clemson said:

The above is easier said than done I certainly concede, but I assure you that, particularly if you have decent looks as a base to start from, it's 100% possible.

Thanks for the response.

As mentioned in my opening post, people have often described me as "confident" and "charismatic", which we often attribute to desirable men. As for my appearances, whilst I would rank myself as at least average, I've been described as anything from "cute" to "hot", to saying I could do modelling work. I know that I dress well and have good body language, at the very least. Whilst I don't currently have any friends locally, my interactions with people at events are well-received, and I make people laugh. Hell, at work I tend to get along with my female colleagues the most, and they are clearly comfortable in my presence and enjoy my company.

All of that to say, I can't really tell why women have never been interested in me. I'm not an "alpha male", but I'm not the anti-social guy sat in the corner with his arms folded. Yet, for whatever reason, women typically avoid me - they don't approach, they avoid eye contact, and in a group setting, they avoid talking to me. It doesn't matter if I'm doing dance classes, volunteering to help the homeless, art or books clubs...I've not had a lick of interest throughout my twenties. I'm not entitled to anything, but it sucks, and now I've missed out on experiences.

[Weezy1973]

40 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

All of that to say, I can't really tell why women have never been interested in me. I'm not an "alpha male", but I'm not the anti-social guy sat in the corner with his arms folded.

I’m not sure if you’ve posted here before, but we do get similar posts to yours from time to time and I feel like the issues are usually the same, and definitely stem from your childhood. You have very low self worth - which isn’t the same as self-esteem. You listed a lot of things you have going for you - that’s self esteem. Despite that, you’re convinced that you’re not “good enough”. That if somebody got to know the real you, they wouldn’t love you because in your mind, you’re not worthy of being loved. And this mindset is the lens through which you view the world. 
 

So when you say women have never been interested in you, it’s likely not true. It’s just that you would never interpret signs of interest as actual interest. You’re convinced that women aren’t interested therefore that’s what you see in the world. And due to your self-worth issues, the idea of being rejected is likely akin to trauma. Confirming the deep pain you already feel. So getting into situations where you can be rejected - by asking a woman out on a date or for her phone number for example - are just things that are (in your mind) impossible to do. Your life is a giant defense mechanism. An attempt to make sure you don’t get hurt. 
 

Therapy is good. At some point you’re going to have to start taking risks. Moving out of your parents home should be priority one. Despite the cost of living. Find a way to get that done. 

[Cute-Frog339]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

So when you say women have never been interested in you, it’s likely not true.

I don't it, given what I said above, but I recognise that any healthy relationship is only going to take place until after I heal.

The question is, can I even heal?

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

people have often described me as "confident" and "charismatic", which we often attribute to desirable men...I've not had a lick of interest throughout my twenties.

Interesting. I'm not sure what might be going on then, as from any/all of this you SHOULD be getting women.

Perhaps you are not "reading" them correctly or you are waiting for them to make all the moves, or perhaps something you're not aware of is putting them off. Maybe you are rating your looks or charisma more highly than it actually is to others? Those are just speculations, I am just seeing words on a computer screen so it's hard to say.

At any rate, SOMETHING is clearly off. Sorry that I can't be of more help in this dept for you.

[Els]

Sorry to hear about your childhood.

Do you put effort into just making friends in general, regardless of gender? For many people, especially folks who are single, friendships are their rock and their main point of social contact. While I do empathize that you want certain things that you can't get from friends (like sex), I'm also not seeing how "women aren't attracted to me" leads to you not having anyone to go to a pub with.

I feel like having a strong circle of friends and a decent social life would help you improve your mental state (alongside therapy), which in turn would make it more likely for you to meet a long-term partner.

[Cute-Frog339]

20 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Interesting. I'm not sure what might be going on then, as from any/all of this you SHOULD be getting women.

Perhaps you are not "reading" them correctly or you are waiting for them to make all the moves, or perhaps something you're not aware of is putting them off. Maybe you are rating your looks or charisma more highly than it actually is to others? Those are just speculations, I am just seeing words on a computer screen so it's hard to say.

At any rate, SOMETHING is clearly off. Sorry that I can't be of more help in this dept for you.

To clarify, this is what people say about me - they're not judgements I've made about myself, nor are they compliments I've sought after; people simply offer them to me.

I can only refer back to what I said before about women not giving me the time of day. But yeah, words on a page, it's difficult to identify.

17 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

Sorry to hear about your childhood.

Do you put effort into just making friends in general, regardless of gender? For many people, especially folks who are single, friendships are their rock and their main point of social contact. While I do empathize that you want certain things that you can't get from friends (like sex), I'm also not seeing how "women aren't attracted to me" leads to you not having anyone to go to a pub with.

I feel like having a strong circle of friends and a decent social life would help you improve your mental state (alongside therapy), which in turn would make it more likely for you to meet a long-term partner.

I go to a lot of events and make casual acquaintances at best, even at the ones in which I'm a regular at. Every once in a while I may find someone I click with, but those relationships are are short-lasting or we don't chat much outside of the event. Meanwhile, everyone else seems to develop much deeper friendships, date one another and such like. In the last two years, I've met only two people that I got along well enough to meet with them outside of the usual scheduled times, and even then we hardly talk, and they've no effort to connect with me further (IE. Social media).

So, naturally, you and I might assume that the problem is me, and I would instinctively agree with that. But these are the same people who would describe me as "confident" and "charismatic", and my therapist(s) don't seem to think I lack in social ability.

That's if I go to a group that's specifically aimed at socialising, mind you, like a meetup bar crawl. I've never spoken to anyone if I go to a concert or a bar by myself, and with things like dance classes, there's no socialising beyond the "We're currently dancing together and we should make small talk" phase.

[Wiseman2]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:15 PM, Cute-Frog339 said:

. The "solution" to my problem, of course, is to undo all the baggage from my upbringing, 

Sorry this is happening. Perhaps get a few side jobs to expedite your departure and independence. That's a more effective and tangible solution and goal.

Therapy is a great idea, but not as effective if you keep yourself in the source of pain and trouble.

Living with parents will also severely stunt your social life and dating life, so it will keep you isolated from peers.

[JTSW]

I agree that still living with your parents is a huge factor that stops you progressing with life as you should be.

You have sooo much going for you and you need to embrace it more. 

Take a few leaps, i.e if you see an attractive woman, go talk to her.

You sound like such a great guy OP.

 

[Cute-Frog339]

Thanks for the responses.

I know that moving out is a priority, but it isn't viable right now for a whole host of reasons which I don't wish to get into. It would be an option in a few months, which I intend to take.

However, this doesn't really solve the rest of it. I'm already in areas in which I can socialise, but I'm not making any meaningful connections. I know making friends is harder when you get older, but I seem to have a more difficult time of it. The feedback I receive is positive, so "on paper" there's no reason I shouldn't be making friends, and non of my therapists have ever identified any character flaw or personality trait which would prevent me from doing this.

As for dating, I don't know how much I can stress how intensely repulsive I must be to the opposite sex. I can assure you, I receive absolutely no interest.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

As for dating, I don't know how much I can stress how intensely repulsive I must be to the opposite sex. I can assure you, I receive absolutely no interest.

Are you saying absolutely no women at all will go out with you, or the women that you want won't go out with you?

[Cute-Frog339]

16 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Are you saying absolutely no women at all will go out with you, or the women that you want won't go out with you?

Neither. I get absolutely zero interest from women. No matches, no conversations, no smiles. Nothing.

I'm certainly not entitled to it, of course, it's just a shame as I'd like to think I'm a decent human being.

[stillafool]

Just now, Cute-Frog339 said:

Neither. I get absolutely zero interest from women. No matches, no conversations, no smiles. Nothing.

I'm certainly not entitled to it, of course, it's just a shame as I'd like to think I'm a decent human being.

Well have you approached any and tried to talk to them or are you waiting for them to give you the signal?

[Cute-Frog339]

22 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Well have you approached any and tried to talk to them or are you waiting for them to give you the signal?

I mentioned this in my original post, so I'm not sure what information you are looking for here. And below.

 

On 12/18/2022 at 12:04 PM, Cute-Frog339 said:

Thanks for the response.

As mentioned in my opening post, people have often described me as "confident" and "charismatic", which we often attribute to desirable men. As for my appearances, whilst I would rank myself as at least average, I've been described as anything from "cute" to "hot", to saying I could do modelling work. I know that I dress well and have good body language, at the very least. Whilst I don't currently have any friends locally, my interactions with people at events are well-received, and I make people laugh. Hell, at work I tend to get along with my female colleagues the most, and they are clearly comfortable in my presence and enjoy my company.

All of that to say, I can't really tell why women have never been interested in me. I'm not an "alpha male", but I'm not the anti-social guy sat in the corner with his arms folded. Yet, for whatever reason, women typically avoid me - they don't approach, they avoid eye contact, and in a group setting, they avoid talking to me. It doesn't matter if I'm doing dance classes, volunteering to help the homeless, art or books clubs...I've not had a lick of interest throughout my twenties. I'm not entitled to anything, but it sucks, and now I've missed out on experiences.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[JTSW]

15 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

Neither. I get absolutely zero interest from women. No matches, no conversations, no smiles. Nothing.

Hence why I said take a few leaps.

Approach them and give them the chance to get to know you.

[Cute-Frog339]

1 hour ago, JTSW said:

Hence why I said take a few leaps.

Approach them and give them the chance to get to know you.

There's no point, really. The fact I receive no signs of interest at all, is more than enough reason not to attempt. It's obvious when a woman is interested / open to talking to a guy. Plus there's the potential of being accused of harassment.

Don't get me wrong - when I'm dancing with a woman, or there's an opening in a group conversation to ask a question, then I'll do it. My interactions with women generally go well, and I can build rapport with them (EG. My colleagues). It's just very confusing to be told all these positives, and yet they actively avoid me at all times.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[JTSW]

49 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

There's no point, really. The fact I receive no signs of interest at all, is more than enough reason not to attempt.

Sorry but this is absolute BS.

Women are not going to be instantaneously attracted to you when they don't know you.

You have such a negative way of looking at things are you wont ever get anywhere thinking like this.

You really need to change your way of thinking.

[Cute-Frog339]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:30 AM, JTSW said:

You sound like such a great guy OP.

 

10 minutes ago, JTSW said:

You have such a negative way of looking at things are you wont ever get anywhere thinking like this.

Well, that lasted long. 😂

I don't know how to articulate just how much women are unbothered by me. It would be easier to suggest I were an actual ghost when it came to the opposite gender. Yet, I see all the time how able and willing they are to interact with other men, even on a platonic level. How am I meant to approach women if they ACTIVELY avoid me at all costs?

That's not to mention I rarely meet single women around my age. The lack of friends doesn't help, but dance classes and volunteering are often formed by older, married women, and I get nothing on dating apps.

So, I'm stumped. Besides, as I said in my original post, once I turn thirty (in like, three months), there's no point trying anyway. I've already missed out on my youth, I'm not going to resign to being settled for.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[JTSW]

32 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

once I turn thirty (in like, three months), there's no point trying anyway.

Firstly I stand by my comment that I think you are genuinely a great guy, but even this comment of yours is BS lol.

I'm honestly not trying to rude so I apologise if it came across like that.

You are still soooo young.  

30 isn't a limit. 

What dating sites do you use?

 

[Cute-Frog339]

1 hour ago, JTSW said:

You are still soooo young.  

30 isn't a limit. 

It is for me.

I haven't been able to meet anyone in my twenties. I've never had the experience of going on dates with multiple women to see who I have chemistry with, or the excitement of a woman wanting to sleep with me. For whatever reason, they have not wanted me, even though I'd like to think I'm a genuinely good guy, attractive, and hard-working. Whilst I recognise that 30 doesn't mean I'm "too old" to date, there are certain aspects of dating that come into play once you reach that age. For starters, the demographic of available people tend to be divorced, broken, or single mothers / fathers, which is not appealing. There's also the fact that...I haven't changed. I'm still the person that I was five years ago, for the most part. If women suddenly started finding me desirable, that would tell me they value things more like my financial security or stability, rather than my character. And that sucks. I'm basically the backup option.

I used all the major dating sites for about six years, with varying pictures and locations, and never got a match. I've deleted them and not since used them, nor do I intend to try.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[basil67]

10 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

It is for me.

I haven't been able to meet anyone in my twenties. I've never had the experience of going on dates with multiple women to see who I have chemistry with, or the excitement of a woman wanting to sleep with me. For whatever reason, they have not wanted me, even though I'd like to think I'm a genuinely good guy, attractive, and hard-working. Whilst I recognise that 30 doesn't mean I'm "too old" to date, there are certain aspects of dating that come into play once you reach that age. For starters, the demographic of available people tend to be divorced, broken, or single mothers / fathers, which is not appealing. There's also the fact that...I haven't changed. I'm still the person that I was five years ago, for the most part. If women suddenly started finding me desirable, that would tell me they value things more like my financial security or stability, rather than my character. And that sucks. I'm basically the backup option.

I used all the major dating sites for about six years, with varying pictures and locations, and never got a match. I've deleted them and not since used them, nor do I intend to try.

As a woman, these beliefs would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:06 AM, Cute-Frog339 said:

 none of my therapists have ever identified any character flaw or personality trait which would prevent me from doing this

Have you discussed being more independent with your therapist? Or perhaps asking for tips on how to connect to women?

[Cute-Frog339]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

As a woman, these beliefs would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.  

Why is that?

I think not wanting be to settled for is an act of self-respect. Why would I want to be the man that women finally decide upon later in life?

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you discussed being more independent with your therapist? Or perhaps asking for tips on how to connect to women?

She doesn't seem to think I have an issue with connecting with people. She seems to think the "right people" will appear in my life once I overcome any childhood trauma.

[SoulCat]

20 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

There's also the fact that...I haven't changed. I'm still the person that I was five years ago, for the most part.

That's a bit of an issue. Generally, people go through a significant period of personal growth between 18 and 30. They finish education, start careers, switch careers. They find partners, hook-ups, dates, friends and perhaps a new 'tribe' as they grow. 

The fact that you're stagnating isn't a great advertisement for you. You still live in a toxic atmosphere at home with your parents, who you say are 'borderline alcoholic, abusive, and emotionally absent'.

You cannot heal from these negative influences if you're still knee deep in them, OP.  You need to put dating on the backburner for now, and get a solid plan together to move out. Make a budget, do your sums. Scout around for a roommate if you can't afford to rent on your own. Look for rooms to rent, or flat & house shares. Get a second job if your finances are coming up short. Remove yourself from the environment that's casing you difficulty and pain. Continue with therapy, but consider getting a different counselor/therapist if you continue to  feel stuck.

Enough with the excuses, the passive stance,  the lamenting, the woe-is-me attitude.

Get up and go. You need to take life by the scruff of the neck and move it into the direction you want to go in. 

20 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

If women suddenly started finding me desirable, that would tell me they value things more like my financial security or stability, rather than my character. And that sucks. I'm basically the backup option.

Hardly, considering at this point in your life you still live with  your parents. No women worth her salt is going to look at that as being a sign of a stable, financially secure and mature dating prospect.

Just think, what are you offering here exactly? What attributes are you putting on the dating table? Do they match with the attributes of the women who you want to date? And please don't say that you're 'hard-working, a good guy, of good character' etc. Those things are basic, ground-level type of attributes. Nothing to shout about.