Abused, lonely, stuck in a rut. Is there a way for me to build a good life?

[Cute-Frog339]

12 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

That's a bit of an issue. Generally, people go through a significant period of personal growth between 18 and 30. They finish education, start careers, switch careers. They find partners, hook-ups, dates, friends and perhaps a new 'tribe' as they grow. 

I think you may have missed my point, here. I have, of course, experienced a period of growth etc, but fundamentally I'm still the same person, with the same character traits etc. As for the bolded part, it's fair to say that I have not experienced that.

12 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

The fact that you're stagnating isn't a great advertisement for you. You still live in a toxic atmosphere at home with your parents, who you say are 'borderline alcoholic, abusive, and emotionally absent'.

You cannot heal from these negative influences if you're still knee deep in them, OP.  You need to put dating on the backburner for now, and get a solid plan together to move out. Make a budget, do your sums. Scout around for a roommate if you can't afford to rent on your own. Look for rooms to rent, or flat & house shares. Get a second job if your finances are coming up short. Remove yourself from the environment that's casing you difficulty and pain. Continue with therapy, but consider getting a different counselor/therapist if you continue to  feel stuck.

It's difficult to describe my homelife. On the one hand, it's not healthy. On the other hand, it's not as bad as I may have painted out to be. To put it briefly, I have two emotionally immature parents that never resolved their own issues - they are loving, but could never be fully there for me. They were very critical of me when I was younger, and have a habit of still doing it now, but ultimately I keep my distance and essentially just live under their roof.

In theory, I could move out tomorrow, but I refuse to pour my money out into renting unless it's a last resort. I could also, in theory, put a deposit on a house tomorrow, but I want to be in a position where I'm at no risk of having to move back with my parents. There's also a possibility that I could be receiving a large sum of money from my parents, and so I'm being patient.

It's not a case of being passive. Quite frankly, I find that judgement of yours to be insulting. It's about making the right decisions, so that I'm set for life.

Also, my living situation wouldn't address the dating / social life. I don't have any relationships with women, so they don't know my living situation, and people in general aren't going to be put off forming friendships just because I live at home. These are two separate issues.

12 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

Hardly, considering at this point in your life you still live with  your parents. No women worth her salt is going to look at that as being a sign of a stable, financially secure and mature dating prospect.

Just think, what are you offering here exactly? What attributes are you putting on the dating table? Do they match with the attributes of the women who you want to date? And please don't say that you're 'hard-working, a good guy, of good character' etc. Those things are basic, ground-level type of attributes. Nothing to shout about.

Let's be fair, there are guys in a worse off situation than me (no job, education, addicted to drugs etc) that are able to date. I find this argument to be flawed in some respects.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[SoulCat]

41 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

 

 To put it briefly, I have two emotionally immature parents that never resolved their own issues - they are loving, but could never be fully there for me. They were very critical of me when I was younger, and have a habit of still doing it now, but ultimately I keep my distance and essentially just live under their roof.

It may be beneficial to your thought processes and overall wellbeing to dial back somewhat on the whole 'childhood trauma' narrative that you initially put out.

Your entire existence seems to be a quagmire of negativity,  low self worth and bitterness. Your titular description of yourself is rather evident of that.

41 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

It's about making the right decisions, so that I'm set for life.

 

And all the while not realising that while you're waiting for your various ships to come in, to set you up for life, LIFE is actually happening all around you, with you barely participating.

Once you finally decide that the time is right, you may well find that you missed the boat. 

 

52 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

Also, my living situation wouldn't address the dating / social life. I don't have any relationships with women, so they don't know my living situation, and people in general aren't going to be put off forming friendships just because I live at home. These are two separate issues.

No they are not. They're very much connected in that your current living situation is having a detrimental effect on your wellbeing. So not surprisingly, you come across (here in mere written words, but it's palpable)  as bitter, angry, depressed, defeatist and overall pretty pessimistic. I'd be very surprised if you'd be able to hide this demeanor in real life. Sure, you may be able to make your colleagues laugh on occasion, or have a cordial chat with someone, but most women have a bit of a 6th sense about these things and for dating purposes, they will swiftly rule you out. 

Were you to live on your own, away from the toxic environment that is your current home life, you may well get to blossom into a spirited, positive & fun kind of person. You know, with the sort of open & inviting personality that people are drawn to. The sort of fella who's confident and easy-going, and not brimming on the inside with angst, bitterness and insecurities.

You have no idea if that could very well be you, or at least an undiscovered side of you, you've never taken the opportunity to try & see. In my view, this personal discovery of self is well worth a few years worth of rent payments.

1 hour ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

Let's be fair, there are guys in a worse off situation than me (no job, education, addicted to drugs etc) that are able to date. I find this argument to be flawed in some respects.

Sure, there are those guys. Some women will find the attributes they bring to the table to be sufficient. Maybe they don't have an awful lot to offer themselves, maybe they're happy to settle for crumbs.  Most women wouldn't, though. They'd expect you to match them, or at least be in the ballpark.

The point is, the better your opening gambit, the better your chances are.

[Cute-Frog339]

23 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

It may be beneficial to your thought processes and overall wellbeing to dial back somewhat on the whole 'childhood trauma' narrative that you initially put out.

I do have childhood trauma, but these are things I won't be discussing here.

23 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

And all the while not realising that while you're waiting for your various ships to come in, to set you up for life, LIFE is actually happening all around you, with you barely participating.

Did you read the part where I said about how I go out and do things, an awful lot? I don't just work, I actually live my life. I just don't have any friends, really.

Like literally, I have so many talents and interests, it's easy enough to fill up my time. My career puts me in contact with a lot of people. I'm not devoid of social skills, nor do I sit at home all day.

I should also mention I did live away from home for four years, and I still experienced the same. I was on this forum eight years ago, with the same issue.

23 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

You have no idea if that could very well be you, or at least an undiscovered side of you, you've never taken the opportunity to try & see. In my view, this personal discovery of self is well worth a few years worth of rent payments.

Women don't have the chance to see anything about me, because they won't even interact with me. Can we try to move past the first hurdle, before trying the second?

Look - all I'm saying is that I live a good life otherwise. I will have my own place soon, but that doesn't resolve the fact that I haven't had a date in X years or that I can't seem to make a friend, DESPITE people viewing me positively. I'm not making this up.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[SoulCat]

9 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

I will have my own place soon, but that doesn't resolve the fact that I haven't had a date in X years or that I can't seem to make a friend, DESPITE people viewing me positively. I'm not making this up.

 

Oh, I believe you. 

I also believe this :

29 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

<snip> you come across (here in mere written words, but it's palpable)  as bitter, angry, depressed, defeatist and overall pretty pessimistic. I'd be very surprised if you'd be able to hide this demeanor in real life. Sure, you may be able to make your colleagues laugh on occasion, or have a cordial chat with someone, but most women have a bit of a 6th sense about these things and for dating purposes, they will swiftly rule you out. 

The above also goes for friendships as well as dating prospects. Most folks aren't  looking to spend time voluntarily with an angry, negative or overly dour individual.

Attitude matters, a lot.

 

And I don't know who these people are that according to you 'view you positively', but clearly they are not viewing  positively enough to move you in the role of a potential friend or date. And that's fine, and pretty normal. I view a whole host of people 'positively' - like this morning's Amazon delivery guy, my regular postie, the lady across the street - but I wouldn't try to start a friendship, or date them.

[Cute-Frog339]

16 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

:The above also goes for friendships as well as dating prospects. Most folks aren't  looking to spend time voluntarily with an angry, negative or overly dour individual.

Attitude matters, a lot.

I'm not going around, moping.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

that doesn't resolve the fact that I haven't had a date in X years or that I can't seem to make a friend, DESPITE people viewing me positively. I'm not making this up.

 

That’s because you’re unwilling to take a risk. Likely due to your childhood trauma the risk of rejection seems too great.
 

In order to turn an acquaintance into a friendship you have to escalate by asking them to hang out away from where you usually interact (work, school etc.). Usually with guys something like “I usually go to the pub to watch the game if you’re interested. They have great wings.” Guys usually get together to do activities. Play golf. A poker game. Paintball. A sporting event. 
 

As far as dating goes, try speed dating. And when you have your 5 mins don’t talk about yourself unless you’re specifically asked. Try to get to know as much about the woman in front of you as you can in those 5 mins regardless of how attractive you find them. Then when it comes time to indicate who you’d date, select every one unless it’s someone you would never date in a million years. 
 

Also although moving out won’t magically solve your problems, it will remove you from your toxic parents, and it will likely increase your confidence. 

[Cute-Frog339]

51 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s because you’re unwilling to take a risk. Likely due to your childhood trauma the risk of rejection seems too great.

In order to turn an acquaintance into a friendship you have to escalate by asking them to hang out away from where you usually interact (work, school etc.). Usually with guys something like “I usually go to the pub to watch the game if you’re interested. They have great wings.” Guys usually get together to do activities. Play golf. A poker game. Paintball. A sporting event. 

But I do this. I've hung out with colleagues after work, and I've invited people out from meetup groups etc. Sure, we'll have a good time together, but it never goes further than that, and they certainly don't make the effort to invite me out to things, add me on social media etc.

51 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

As far as dating goes, try speed dating. And when you have your 5 mins don’t talk about yourself unless you’re specifically asked. Try to get to know as much about the woman in front of you as you can in those 5 mins regardless of how attractive you find them. Then when it comes time to indicate who you’d date, select every one unless it’s someone you would never date in a million years. 

Also although moving out won’t magically solve your problems, it will remove you from your toxic parents, and it will likely increase your confidence. 

I know I'm going to get flack for this, but I really don't like the idea of speed dating. It's about the one thing I'm unwilling to try, because it sounds so artificial, forced, and a last-ditch effort to meet someone. I'd prefer things to happen naturally, and for the chances of not just dating, but casual encounters as well.

Besides, as I've said before in this thread, women are just unbothered by me in general - I don't think this would help.

51 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Also although moving out won’t magically solve your problems, it will remove you from your toxic parents, and it will likely increase your confidence. 

That I can agree with.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[stillafool]

So when you go up to women and actually ask them out on a date what is their reply to you?

[Atwood]

I'm very sorry to hear about the abuse you have suffered. You say it's not as bad as you describe, but it can't have been easy for you all the same. I can see how important it is for you to experience a relationship that is loving and safe. 

I do have a question. If you fell in love with someone and thought they were fantastic, why would it matter if they were divorced, a single parent, or "broken" as you describe? Divorced people and parents are still valid partners and I would argue we're all broken in our own ways. You'll never meet someone without baggage because most of us have childhood trauma. It's the human condition. I understand not wanting to take on someone's kids if you don't want to be a parent, but what specific "brokenness" is the issue? Because similarly to an earlier poster if I heard someone say something like that it would be an instant dealbreaker for me.

Also you're saying that people you could date after 30 are settling for you, but it's not fair to tell someone they're settling for you if they've never met you before. I'm confused about what you would have expected them to do: find you sooner? I'm confused by this. Lots of people meet in their 30s and 40s. We can't blame somebody for not knowing we existed earlier. Someone might've got out of a very long-term relationship for a variety of reasons and the meet you when you turn 35 and the relationship progresses as normal: what's wrong with them doing this?

You haven't dated for ten years which I assume means you've only dated teenagers when you were a teenager. If you've had no experienced with adult women, I can imagine that's daunting and you might subconsciously be intimidated by women with experience and histories of their own. It would explain why you don't want anybody with a history of marriage, children or relationships and maybe you resent that you now can't date someone with a "clean slate" as it were?

Lastly, it sounds like you've received nothing but positive feedback. Nobody has ever said anything constructive about you? I'm aware of my shortcomings because the men and women I've dated and friends have been direct enough to tell me (at one point one of my girlfriends telling me I had been causing her distress without me even realizing). Have you never fallen out with friends or had disagreements where you realised you're being unreasonable? Your therapist not shining any light on development areas? You've had some constructive comments made in this thread: does any of it line up if you're being honest with yourself? We often keep people at arms length by accident. 

[Cute-Frog339]

14 minutes ago, stillafool said:

So when you go up to women and actually ask them out on a date what is their reply to you?

I feel like I'm not being very clear on this. Let me try to explain...

I don't have many friends, two at most, so I don't have a social circle which I can meet women through. The only way I could meet potential new partners has been dating apps or events / hobby groups.

The dating apps were a complete bust. I used them for about six years and got nothing. This was despite having professionally taken photos, and having my profile rated. I was consistently rated highly for both my photos and my profile. After that many years, I ended up ditching them completely, and I haven't used them since before the pandemic.

So that leaves me with hobby groups. I could rattle off a list of the places I've been, but suffice to say there have been many. Some were one-offs, some were more regular things. It was rare for me to meet women in my age bracket, and the few that I did meet were usually taken.

That was one issue. The other is how women respond to my presence. They do not try to engage with me in any manner whatsoever, to the point that they appear to avoid me. Whether I was at a bar, club, or some social event, they demonstrated no interest in wanting to get to know me. I remember once that I was going to a particular dance class on a regular basis - the women there would be nice to meet when we were dancing together, but make no effort to talk thereafter. A few months in, some new guy joined, and from day one they were approaching him for conversation, and a group of them arranged a night out together. I wasn't invited.

That all being said, when I do interact with women, everything is fine. I can talk to my work colleagues, local barista, people at the gym etc with ease, and I never perceive any signs of discomfort. The problem is A) Meeting any in the first place, and B) Them actually wanting to get to know me.

The same could be said for platonic friendships. I get along with people, but it never develops deeper than that.

Otherwise, all I can do is regurgitate what I've said previously. My therapists doesn't seem to think I have any issues when it comes to interacting with people, and people often say kind remarks about it. Most people are actually surprised that I'm single, and usually suggest to me that I could get women "easily". I had such a comment about two weeks ago, in fact.

Lastly, I was here eight years ago with the same problem. I was told the usual, "dress well", "workout", "go to places to meet new people". I've done all that, and I'm still in the same spot.

[Cute-Frog339]

6 minutes ago, Atwood said:

I'm very sorry to hear about the abuse you have suffered. You say it's not as bad as you describe, but it can't have been easy for you all the same. I can see how important it is for you to experience a relationship that is loving and safe. 

I do have a question. If you fell in love with someone and thought they were fantastic, why would it matter if they were divorced, a single parent, or "broken" as you describe? Divorced people and parents are still valid partners and I would argue we're all broken in our own ways. You'll never meet someone without baggage because most of us have childhood trauma. It's the human condition. I understand not wanting to take on someone's kids if you don't want to be a parent, but what specific "brokenness" is the issue? Because similarly to an earlier poster if I heard someone say something like that it would be an instant dealbreaker for me.

Also you're saying that people you could date after 30 are settling for you, but it's not fair to tell someone they're settling for you if they've never met you before. I'm confused about what you would have expected them to do: find you sooner? I'm confused by this. Lots of people meet in their 30s and 40s. We can't blame somebody for not knowing we existed earlier. Someone might've got out of a very long-term relationship for a variety of reasons and the meet you when you turn 35 and the relationship progresses as normal: what's wrong with them doing this?

You haven't dated for ten years which I assume means you've only dated teenagers when you were a teenager. If you've had no experienced with adult women, I can imagine that's daunting and you might subconsciously be intimidated by women with experience and histories of their own. It would explain why you don't want anybody with a history of marriage, children or relationships and maybe you resent that you now can't date someone with a "clean slate" as it were?

Lastly, it sounds like you've received nothing but positive feedback. Nobody has ever said anything constructive about you? I'm aware of my shortcomings because the men and women I've dated and friends have been direct enough to tell me (at one point one of my girlfriends telling me I had been causing her distress without me even realizing). Have you never fallen out with friends or had disagreements where you realised you're being unreasonable? Your therapist not shining any light on development areas? You've had some constructive comments made in this thread: does any of it line up if you're being honest with yourself? We often keep people at arms length by accident. 

The best way I can describe it is this - I have been completely ignored by women during my twenties, so if a single mother or divorcee began showing an interest, all I would be able to think about is how I have only become an option because they're preferred choice (s) were unavailable. That doesn't sit right with me, and I refuse to put myself in that position. As an aside, I would like to be a parent, but I am NOT looking after someone else's children.

I don't blame someone for not finding me sooner. I just know I'm not the type of guy they would have dated. Clearly, I'm not anyone's type right now.

I had one relationship when I was much younger. That's it. It's not that I want a "clean slate", because I recognise women will have dated men prior to myself. I don't hold that against them, as it's the natural path of life.

Yes and no. The few times I've had anything resembling a social life, it's usually been with the wrong people. For instance, at university I was part of one group, which I distanced myself from because they thrived on drama, and one of them was a known rapist (which women still flocked towards). I went to one meetup event for a period of time, but many of them were misandrist, and I got "touched up" by a couple of the male members. The woman I mentioned briefly in my original post had a boyfriend when she began to show signs of interest, and she had a history of cheating, so I removed myself from the equation. Of course, I was always the bad guy, but tell me...does it not sound like I did the right thing by moving away from that toxicity?

Yet, on the flipside, the two friends I do have think very highly of me. My colleagues applaud my work ethic and commitment to helping others. I had a random compliment from a guy at a meetup event the other day, which is where I got the "confident and charismatic" bit from.

I'm not perfect, I recognise that, but I don't see why people keep me at arm's length as much as they do.

[Atwood]

48 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

The best way I can describe it is this - I have been completely ignored by women during my twenties, so if a single mother or divorcee began showing an interest, all I would be able to think about is how I have only become an option because they're preferred choice (s) were unavailable. That doesn't sit right with me, and I refuse to put myself in that position. As an aside, I would like to be a parent, but I am NOT looking after someone else's children.

I don't blame someone for not finding me sooner. I just know I'm not the type of guy they would have dated. Clearly, I'm not anyone's type right now.

I had one relationship when I was much younger. That's it. It's not that I want a "clean slate", because I recognise women will have dated men prior to myself. I don't hold that against them, as it's the natural path of life.

Yes and no. The few times I've had anything resembling a social life, it's usually been with the wrong people. For instance, at university I was part of one group, which I distanced myself from because they thrived on drama, and one of them was a known rapist (which women still flocked towards). I went to one meetup event for a period of time, but many of them were misandrist, and I got "touched up" by a couple of the male members. The woman I mentioned briefly in my original post had a boyfriend when she began to show signs of interest, and she had a history of cheating, so I removed myself from the equation. Of course, I was always the bad guy, but tell me...does it not sound like I did the right thing by moving away from that toxicity?

Yet, on the flipside, the two friends I do have think very highly of me. My colleagues applaud my work ethic and commitment to helping others. I had a random compliment from a guy at a meetup event the other day, which is where I got the "confident and charismatic" bit from.

I'm not perfect, I recognise that, but I don't see why people keep me at arm's length as much as they do.

When you meet a stranger, you have no idea if they would have dated you because you don't know them. Women are just individuals. So every person you meet is entirely new to you. If you meet someone at 35, you're not a back up option, you're somebody they're meeting for the first time. Saying they never would have dated you is a baseless presumption about them. Fair enough if that's what you feel, but it's a choice you are making and not what that other person has decided. 

"Of course I was always the bad guy"

"I'm not perfect I recognise that"

How are you not perfect? What are your red flags? I asked what the constructive issues with you are and you told me what was wrong with other people and then followed up with more positives about yourself. You need to explore honestly what your own toxicities might be. If not here, at least with your therapist, because we all have them. 

[Cute-Frog339]

1 minute ago, Atwood said:

When you meet a stranger, you have no idea if they would have dated you because you don't know them. Women are just individuals. So every person you meet is entirely new to you. If you meet someone at 35, you're not a back up option, you're somebody they're meeting for the first time. Saying they never would have dated you is a baseless presumption about them. Fair enough if that's what you feel, but it's a choice you are making and not what that other person has decided. 

There's no way of knowing, but it's better to err on the side of caution. It's a safe assumption, given that women have not been interested in me all my life, and I think it's fair to say that anyone who does show an interest from here-on would probably be settling, otherwise if I had been a desirable bloke...I would have had dates. I would have loved to have dated around etc, and now I've missed out. I can't get that time back.

1 minute ago, Atwood said:

"Of course I was always the bad guy"

"I'm not perfect I recognise that"

How are you not perfect? What are your red flags? I asked what the constructive issues with you are and you told me what was wrong with other people and then followed up with more positives about yourself. You need to explore honestly what your own toxicities might be. If not here, at least with your therapist, because we all have them. 

Sorry, I wasn't ignoring that. I didn't read your question properly. It's been a rough day (I relapsed...).

• So, probably that to start off with. I use porn to deal with negative emotions, otherwise I'm sat ruminating on everything and worry a lot.
• I don't tend to be very trusting of people now-a-days, which I've developed given the aforementioned bad experiences.
• I've spent so much time alone, without human connection, that I probably wouldn't know what to do if anyone did show an interest in me (romantically or platonically).
• I don't forgive very easily - if I get mistreated, I tend to back away from that person on a permanent basis.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

Why is that?

I think not wanting be to settled for is an act of self-respect. Why would I want to be the man that women finally decide upon later in life?

Why would this be a dealbreaker?   Let me count the things it suggests:

1. it sounds like something you got from an incel site

2. it's cynical

3. it's negative

4. it's rude

5. it's misogynist

6. it's stereotyping of women

7. it's untrue that all/most women over the age of 30 have kids or are divorced. 

8. It's untrue that all/most women over thirty care more about financial security than finding a partner. 

In short, you're so caught up in believing this BS that the negativity would be bleeding through your pores and would be obvious to all around.  Absolutely nothing about this statement suggests self respect on your part. 

 

 

[Cute-Frog339]

18 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Why would this be a dealbreaker?   Let me count the things it suggests:

1. it sounds like something you got from an incel site

2. it's cynical

3. it's negative

4. it's rude

5. it's misogynist

6. it's stereotyping of women

7. it's untrue that all/most women over the age of 30 have kids or are divorced. 

8. It's untrue that all/most women over thirty care more about financial security than finding a partner. 

In short, you're so caught up in believing this BS that the negativity would be bleeding through your pores and would be obvious to all around.  Absolutely nothing about this statement suggests self respect on your part. 

I'm sorry this offends you, but ultimately I am not looking to be someone's last option.

This is all moot anyway, on account that I can't get a date regardless.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

I'm sorry this offends you, but ultimately I am not looking to be someone's last option.

This is all moot anyway, on account that I can't get a date regardless.

Why would I be offended?   I know that what you're saying is untrue!  I'm just saying that this attitude is doing you no favours.

Again, suggesting that you're someone's last option doesn't say much good either.  If you really think that you're the lowest of the low on the dating totem pole, it's yet another reason why women will avoid you. 

[Beachead]

@Cute-Frog339

Hey OP,

Let me ask you this,  compared to when you were 20, do you feel you've changed?  

And if you do, do you feel that these changes have led you to making more-informed, better decisions for yourself in your life?

- Feather

Edited December 21, 2022 by MisterFeather

[Cute-Frog339]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Why would I be offended?   I know that what you're saying is untrue!  I'm just saying that this attitude is doing you no favours.

Again, suggesting that you're someone's last option doesn't say much good either.  If you really think that you're the lowest of the low on the dating totem pole, it's yet another reason why women will avoid you. 

I don't know why I'm the lowest of the low, but that appears to be the case. I mean, what else more can I do?

- I have an active lifestyle, including working on my fitness.

- I play a music instrument, dance, paint and write.

- I have a solid career, with good prospects, doing something meaningful to better our society.

- In general, I'd like to think I'm a well-rounded, kind and intelligent person.

Yet, no one is interested. I could go on, but I know abusers and rapists that have had more dates than me.

 

3 minutes ago, MisterFeather said:

@Cute-Frog339

Hey OP,

Let me ask you this,  compared to when you were 20, do you feel you've changed?  

And if you do, do you feel that these changes have led you to making more-informed, better decisions for yourself in your life?

- Feather

I'm more socially capable and confident. I have further developed my skills / talents. I'm better educated / more knowledgeable.

Yes.

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

I don't know why I'm the lowest of the low, but that appears to be the case. I mean, what else more can I do?

- I have an active lifestyle, including working on my fitness.

- I play a music instrument, dance, paint and write.

- I have a solid career, with good prospects, doing something meaningful to better our society.

- In general, I'd like to think I'm a well-rounded, kind and intelligent person.

Yet, no one is interested. I could go on, but I know abusers and rapists that have had more dates than me.

 

See the bolded?  There you go again with the negative attitude.  It's what's holding you back man

[Cute-Frog339]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

See the bolded?  There you go again with the negative attitude.  It's what's holding you back man

I mean, that's a stated fact, not an opinion.

[basil67]

Just how many rapists and abusers do you know?  

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

That was one issue. The other is how women respond to my presence. They do not try to engage with me in any manner whatsoever, to the point that they appear to avoid me. Whether I was at a bar, club, or some social event, they demonstrated no interest in wanting to get to know me. I remember once that I was going to a particular dance class on a regular basis - the women there would be nice to meet when we were dancing together, but make no effort to talk thereafter.

You've explained several times that women don't demonstrate interest in getting to know you.  Got it.  What I want to know is what are you doing as a man to show those women you are interested in getting to know them?????  Do you go up to them and start a conversation, ask for their number or ask to get together?  If so, what is their response to that?

 

  I can tell you right now if you're sitting back waiting for a woman to hit on you and ask you out, you're probably not going to want the one who is doing it.  Women love and want to be pursued by men.  We find it very masculine and sexy.  There are men (and women) who don't have to do anything but stand there to get the opposite sex to flock to them; but unless you're in that small percentage it's a give and take world.

[Cute-Frog339]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Just how many rapists and abusers do you know?  

...what has that got to do with anything? Sadly, I've known a few - the downside of getting involved with the wrong people during my lifetime.

4 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You've explained several times that women don't demonstrate interest in getting to know you.  Got it.  What I want to know is what are you doing as a man to show those women you are interested in getting to know them?????  Do you go up to them and start a conversation, ask for their number or ask to get together?  If so, what is their response to that?

 

  I can tell you right now if you're sitting back waiting for a woman to hit on you and ask you out, you're probably not going to want the one who is doing it.  Women love and want to be pursued by men.  We find it very masculine and sexy.  There are men (and women) who don't have to do anything but stand there to get the opposite sex to flock to them; but unless you're in that small percentage it's a give and take world.

Then nothing. I've already explained that I generally don't meet anyone who is available to date, and those that do avoid me. Why would I ask someone out if they can't even look me in the eye? Women will show interest in a guy that are attracted to / find interesting. I'm not following with this line of questioning, unless I'm not making myself clear?

Edited December 21, 2022 by Cute-Frog339

[Atwood]

55 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

I'm sorry this offends you, but ultimately I am not looking to be someone's last option.

This is all moot anyway, on account that I can't get a date regardless.

Thank you for listing your red flags. They all sound very interrelated to other people and how you respond to them. 
 

Basil has provided you with some very direct, explicit and constructive feedback about something specific you have said. 
 

Do you think it’s worth being introspective about these comments and considering if they apply to you? It’s interesting that you’ve taken negative feedback and started listing all your positive attributes again. Do you find it difficult to be criticised in any way? 
 

It’s only moot if you think getting dates is the only reason worth introspection. I would say figuring out who you are and where your blind spots are is very worthwhile for your own sake.

[stillafool]

7 minutes ago, Cute-Frog339 said:

I'm not following with this line of questioning, unless I'm not making myself clear?

No you're following it you just don't like answering direct questions.  The only suggestion I have for you at this poing is to maybe hire a "Dating Coach" to show you how it's done.