Back again after many years…unfortunately

[vwbeetle]

3 hours ago, stillafool said:

You do have your daughter and I'm sure other family to support you through this divorce.  Some use a friend group.  Most people going through divorce do not already have another partner in the wings waiting either.  My friends were a big help for me.

Thank you so much, I’m so blessed beyond belief to have a daughter that’s wonderful and sweet. I keep a lot from her (except the occasional tears). I try not to burden my elderly dad too much because this has affected him as well. He has stepped in many times to help me out financially and by helping me emotionally. 
I don’t discuss a lot with friends , but when I do, they are supportive and are always there if I need anything. 
 

[vwbeetle]

6 hours ago, Will am I said:

You never caused him to cheat, that’s on him.

Your story seems to be a long chain of shiftng boundaries. He got caught up in this vortex of infidelity, remained unwilling to break loose from that for a long time, and in an effort to save what could be saved you got caught up in the dance.

When you (the betrayed wife) write about not wanting to cause him (your unfaithful husband) to cheat on her (the other woman), then I would say things were pretty messed up. I mean, you were always the legitimate partner.

Do not blame yourself for it. You got pulled into a crazy situation but you never wanted that and you never started that.

But you did choose to get a divorce after all, which will probably involve a lot of pain but also mark the return of sanity to your situation. And now the next chapter of your story will be about you reinventing yourself and establishing a new life for yourself. 

 

He’s kept me confused and on the hook for a very long time. I don’t know why he does/did this, because he always gave me false hope and when he had many chances to come back home , he always chose to work things out with her. 
It was his idea for the divorce ; I’m just the one that actually pulled that trigger because he was always flip flopping . 
I have to figure out what my new future will be. I just want me and my daughter to be happy . 
 

[vwbeetle]

4 hours ago, BrinnM said:

I am so proud of you for initiating this divorce. If you hadn’t done this, you wouldn’t be any happier a few months or years down the road, believe me, because, yes, he might have (again!) “come back”, but at what cost? And for how long? You say you posted here 11 years ago, and it was about pretty much the same exact issue. His infidelity. It made you unhappy 11 years ago, and it’s still an ongoing source of your worries and unhappiness. So again: I am proud of you. You put a stop to it. You made a decision, and you’re following through! And in all of this, I am 1000% sure that you have total support from your daughter, you have her respect, and she loves you. This mother-daughter-relationship is priceless, and it is another thing to be proud of!

I agree with your perception of karma, though, I can relate. Many people believe in it, but when we’re in the thick of it, we often don’t experience this “what goes around comes around” thingy, no, we see the mean guys and the perpetrators and the b****y girls get away with murder. And we see that they live happily ever after. 
But do they? 

First of all, your ex moved in with a woman who has two children that are considerably younger than his own daughter, so he is not only not used to this anymore, but also he is just “mom’s boyfriend”. These kids will be teenagers, they have a biological father who is and will be around, there will be conflicts and arguments where his GF will have to take sides (and she’ll be on her kids’ side on many if not all occasions), etc.etc. Knowing your ex, do you think he’ll be happy there long-term? Or will he look elsewhere soon for some distraction? “Because it’s so difficult to live with them.”

Or will he hit on you again, like he did before, while he was already with the new woman? It’s very likely. 

Second, this guy is a philanderer, and I’m sure he’ll find fault with his new woman sooner rather than later, in order to have an excuse for yet another fling. It’s just his pattern. And if he keeps spending at this pace, they’ll probably run out of money at some point, and that’s going to be another source of conflict. If he’s supporting her and her offspring, he’ll notice in his bank account at some point that his money doesn’t last as long as it used to. And she won’t be happy if he tells her that some budget cuts would be in order! 

In the meantime, you enjoy your healthy relationship with your very smart and successful daughter who will grow up to be even smarter and more successful, and he will have very limited access to her. He’ll regret that later, too, for sure. 
You will be fine! He will feel guilty and stupid.

You have so much to be proud of.
Yes - the money situation sucks and being alone in a house that needs a lot of repairs can be daunting especially if you’re not very handy. And it’s expensive if you have to pay for contractors all the time, even for little things. 
Which makes me think - Isn’t your husband still partly responsible for home repairs? You’re not divorced yet after all and aside from apparently no spousal support having been awarded/negotiated (right?), at least as long as he’s still on the title, he will be responsible for stuff to be fixed, no? He should chime in!

Also - you might be entitled to back child support if he didn’t pay for a few months/years while she was still in highschool/living with you (But without a divorce decree, or an official child support order/agreement, which you may not have had back then, that’ll be difficult, I understand that) …… 

But all in all - bravo and kudos! You’re doing great. Just keep on keeping on. One step at a time. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
(And money kind of always works itself out. You have a good education, plus, side gigs seem to be everywhere these days.)

Thank you so much for taking the time for such a detailed answer; this helps me so much. 

You make sense when you remind me that I’ve already been down this road previously with him- except that time I chose to stay and try to work it out. 
This time around, I did have to protect my child from the back and forth her father did . It’s painful to have your kid watch her father pack a bag three times . 
My daughter and I have an amazing relationship , and the older she gets , the more of a best friend she becomes. I still baby her of course but we truly enjoy being together. I cried so much when she went away to college , but I knew it was coming and it’s what we all have to eventually do with out kids. 
As far as the karma thing; I’m right with you. Seems like the worst people get the best and the best people get the worst. But you’re right in that we don’t always get to see the karma hit them. 
I don’t know a lot about the situation with the kids. I only know that he has said (in our past conversations )that he keeps himself separate from them and tries not to interact with them and that they are her kids and not his. I feel bad for the kids if this is the case because it’s not their fault two adults made decisions that has affected their lives. Of course , I don’t believe him when he tells me this because how can someone live in a house with two kids and not have a relationship with them? 
Yes, money may be an issue with them since it was always an issue with us. But I don’t think he minds giving her whatever they want because he WANTS to- I think that’s the difference between me and her. And that’s hard to accept as well. Running low on money is not going to be a problem they have.. not with his resources. But he may not like giving her the impression that he cares about costs. 
Unfortunately, the house repairs are supposed to be my responsibility - lots of legal crap. 
My goal for this year is to learn home repair and when I have any extra money, I’ll try some fixing up because I don’t have contractor money . YouTube is the worlds best teacher these days, right? 
Back child support isn’t even something I want to pursue because I can’t afford the extra attorney fees that would incur. It’s ok, I’m hoping the universe will bring back everything back to me and my daughter 1 million fold. 
Thank you again, and I am hopeful that things will get better soon … 

[Will am I]

At least now you have clarity and the confusion can fade.

Healing and building a future can never start while you’re still in the storm.

 

[vwbeetle]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

At least now you have clarity and the confusion can fade.

Healing and building a future can never start while you’re still in the storm.

 

Thank you, Yes, I’m getting there…

I still miss what we had, what we were supposed to be, and I miss the love and companionship of a best friend and lover. He changed a lot when he met her, and during his time with her, I’ve been treated worse than a stranger. 
I’ve been in this storm for far too long, and now that he has roots and a definite future with her, I can begin to build something better for myself. 

[glows]

6 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

True; I don’t know what type of relationship they have, but I can imagine it’s good and solid now that he’s committed the next 30 years with her by taking on a new house and mortgage. Why would he keep himself stuck in a toxic relationship- I think they’ve worked out their issues and found happiness. 
I do need to stop comparing my life and theirs .. it is holding me back. 

He stayed with you even though it was toxic and he cheated on you multiple times. It’s better if you take off those rose coloured lenses. This man isn’t the one anyone might want to think about spending 30 years with. The definition of “commitment” is highly questionable here, also not representative of only co-owning property. 

I think you brought up the house again because it’s a sore point and something you wanted for yourself and your family as you mentioned earlier. That dream can evolve and change with you. He may not be in it but you can either choose to re-adopt that dream and make it happen yourself or discard it. You’re not powerless.

[vwbeetle]

15 minutes ago, glows said:

He stayed with you even though it was toxic and he cheated on you multiple times. It’s better if you take off those rose coloured lenses. This man isn’t the one anyone might want to think about spending 30 years with. The definition of “commitment” is highly questionable here, also not representative of only co-owning property. 

I think you brought up the house again because it’s a sore point and something you wanted for yourself and your family as you mentioned earlier. That dream can evolve and change with you. He may not be in it but you can either choose to re-adopt that dream and make it happen yourself or discard it. You’re not powerless.

Oh, Our relationship wasn’t toxic; the one he had with her was. They had constant fights and break ups and he moved out several times and even stayed with his various work friends when he had no place to go. What’s weird is that we rarely fought and saw eye to eye on many things… our marriage didn’t have arguments until after this affair. 
I wonder if she trusts him completely since the way they got together was questionable. Also I wonder if he trusts her since during some of their breakups, she slept with other men. But he said he was ok with it. I don’t think he will cheat on her because of this huge commitment he just made and he’s almost 15 years older than she is and knows she’s probably his last chance at not being alone. 
I do focus on the new home they purchased together because everything about that house was what we wanted for our family , and he gifted it to her and her kids. It’s such a sore spot and a source of envy for me. I can’t get rid of  that feeling because the discovery of it was super recent. 
I hope I can make some positive progress in my life- how do people get through all of this with their sanity and end up happy. 

[glows]

Respectfully, it starts with not lying to yourself that your marriage was healthy. He had more than one affair and you were in pain. If you can’t see the contradiction in your response just above and the list of events and what you felt in your very first post, you’re still in denial. Not fighting or arguing in a relationship doesn’t mean something isn’t severely wrong or all is well. 

You may not see it now but at least move in the direction of more independence and financial freedom. Avoid becoming bitter over this. Keep moving and improving yourself.

Edited December 26, 2022 by glows

[Will am I]

5 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

our marriage didn’t have arguments until after this affair. 

I actually believe this was a bad sign. A lack of arguments either means you agree on everything (unlikely) or at least one of the spouses stopped caring.

I spent years with my wife during which we had very few arguments. I now believe that long period was in reality a process of emotional distancing, slowly leading up to the situation where my heart was no longer in the marriage at all. And when it was on the street it was a matter of time before another woman picked it up. We’ve chosen to reconcile and now have a healthy dose of disagreements.

[salparadise]

5 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

I do focus on the new home they purchased together because everything about that house was what we wanted for our family , and he gifted it to her and her kids. It’s such a sore spot and a source of envy for me. I can’t get rid of  that feeling because the discovery of it was super recent. 

I don 't understand why you aren't going after some of that money. I don't know where you live, but in the US most jurisdictions would essentially equalize the money such that both can afford the same lifestyle. And if he owes back child support, that would represent an instant cash infusion that he'd be paying quickly to avoid severe consequences. Doing these does not have to be about retribution; it's simply what you deserve under the law, and after that long of a marriage equalizing the finances is standard procedure. Of course you'd have to abandon the victim status to go toe to toe... I wonder if you are emotionally trying to hang onto that?

[Will am I]

I understand both positions. Claiming what you are entitled to, but also the desire to cut the lines with your ex spouse.

Especially spousal and child support can stretch a long time. It may be an idea to settle on a large one-off payment instead of monthly installments.

[vwbeetle]

7 hours ago, glows said:

Respectfully, it starts with not lying to yourself that your marriage was healthy. He had more than one affair and you were in pain. If you can’t see the contradiction in your response just above and the list of events and what you felt in your very first post, you’re still in denial. Not fighting or arguing in a relationship doesn’t mean something isn’t severely wrong or all is well. 

You may not see it now but at least move in the direction of more independence and financial freedom. Avoid becoming bitter over this. Keep moving and improving yourself.

I agree that it wasn’t healthy even though I thought it was at the time. He chose to not communicate often and I wasn’t allowed to bring up things from the past because he said it wasn’t healthy to dwell on the first affair. He said I was obsessed with thinking about that other woman , but how could I not. Again, we tried counseling but when the therapist essentially blamed me because I was not a fighter I was done seeking out help. 
The financial situation I find myself in was a result of decades of remaining in the same profession in order to have flexibility for our child . I stupidly thought my marriage was solid and would be a forever thing and that retirement was the reward for those sacrifices to my professional career. Our original plan was that once our kiddo was off at college, it would finally be our time. I think that plan is also causing me a lot of pain because it’s not going to happen anymore and he’s made new goals and plans with this woman who didn’t have to work for decades to enjoy the financial freedom I helped to build. 
I’m sad and bitter and envious and disappointed and just depressed over this whole situation… the holidays enhances those feelings and I realize how much I lost. I’m trying …

[vwbeetle]

2 hours ago, Will am I said:

I understand both positions. Claiming what you are entitled to, but also the desire to cut the lines with your ex spouse.

Especially spousal and child support can stretch a long time. It may be an idea to settle on a large one-off payment instead of monthly installments.

I had to make choices and the easiest was to just let it go … my attorney asked me if that was something I wanted to do and I just didn’t have it in me to stretch this out any longer than we already had. He and his attorney delayed so much in what was supposed to be a simple divorce (ha), I think now he was stalling for time to hide things from me. Which he already was, but again , I didn’t have the money to hire a financial attorney to do a deep dig into his finances. He hid a lot from me and had accounts I didn’t know of. 
Im like a fish at the end of the fishing line… it can only  fight so long and so hard before you get tired out and just give up. I’m just flipping around on the boat trying to make it. 

[vwbeetle]

2 hours ago, salparadise said:

I don 't understand why you aren't going after some of that money. I don't know where you live, but in the US most jurisdictions would essentially equalize the money such that both can afford the same lifestyle. And if he owes back child support, that would represent an instant cash infusion that he'd be paying quickly to avoid severe consequences. Doing these does not have to be about retribution; it's simply what you deserve under the law, and after that long of a marriage equalizing the finances is standard procedure. Of course you'd have to abandon the victim status to go toe to toe... I wonder if you are emotionally trying to hang onto that?

Most people don’t understand why I don’t either, but for me, it’s a combination of a lot of things. He wasn’t exactly transparent in his financial history at discovery and he had means to shuffle things around to where I wasn’t able to touch it or claim it. It’s very complex and would have been very expensive for me to try to fight for anything. I discovered that he wasn’t the man I thought I knew. 
Im was already wiped out financially and at the time of filing I had almost nothing- the house wasn’t even in my name. That’s a long story but just chalk it up to lack of knowledge at a young age and being stupid in love. 
I’m trying to get to a point where I don’t think about any of this anymore, or feel the envy and loss of a life that was promised to me.. people around me keep telling me that I should feel blessed and grateful for what I have and that he was a jerk and cruel for doing this to me and my daughter … and I am grateful that I have a job and a place to live and for my daughter … 

Im trying to understand that forever isn’t a guarantee even though people say their vows in front of God and everyone promising what seems like simple things to do: love, honor, obey … sigh. 
I’m Just very sad and what hurts most is he doesn’t think about what he left behind. Maybe that’s what affects me most, I don’t know. My feelings are all over the place. 
I loved him so much and I still do despite all the pain and suffering he caused and I know it’s stupid and wrong to still have those feelings but it just doesn’t disappear overnight. 25 years is a long time . 
I’m hanging onto a lot emotionally. 

[vwbeetle]

3 hours ago, Will am I said:

I actually believe this was a bad sign. A lack of arguments either means you agree on everything (unlikely) or at least one of the spouses stopped caring.

I spent years with my wife during which we had very few arguments. I now believe that long period was in reality a process of emotional distancing, slowly leading up to the situation where my heart was no longer in the marriage at all. And when it was on the street it was a matter of time before another woman picked it up. We’ve chosen to reconcile and now have a healthy dose of disagreements.

It’s what my previous therapist told me as well..which I don’t know that lack of arguments was bad. We did have things we would discuss but we were never the yelling shouting screaming type. It was always just frenzied conversation and most of the time he would just shut down and refuse to talk to me for hours at a time. That’s how he would punish me. 
He was emotionally distant a lot of the time and if you asked most people we were a very odd mix for a couple. He was always perceived to be standoffish, unapproachable, angry looking - and I’m very friendly , open , smiley type person . I like people and being around people so being alone is slowly wearing me down. 
So you mentioned that you reconciled with your wife; did you commit yourself to working on fixing it?  Was she ? I’m so happy that y’all decided to reconcile ; if I had a choice I think I would have tried to work it out again but I know it probably wouldn’t have worked out anyway- he was too connected emotionally to his AP. 
I’ll be ok too, one day. 

[Will am I]

1 hour ago, vwbeetle said:

So you mentioned that you reconciled with your wife; did you commit yourself to working on fixing it?  Was she ?

When I fell in love with the other woman, I relatively quickly started to feel conflicted. Basically I didn’t want to be “that guy” (the kind of man who cheats on his wife with a girlfriend two decades younger).

So I debated what to do. I believe that falling in love with someone else is a strong signal about your marriage. My first step was to what I wanted to change in the marriage, then I got my wife on board with what I wanted to change.

Did she like the message? I don’t know, not necessarily. But I did realize that I did not want to continue on the old foot. My wife never wanted a divorce so she went along. We’re seeing a counselor and making small but steady improvements.

[glows]

In your case it was years of stonewalling and cheating, and not just physical or romantic infidelity. It was also financial infidelity.

The problem with your situation is that you’ve conditioned yourself into trying to make it work for years while he had a proven record of not being faithful to the marriage, convincing yourself that his behaviour is fine and you’re ok to reconcile. You weren’t honest with yourself from the start. I’m wondering if it ever crossed your mind that he would do it again. Which he did.

The reason why it’s so hard for you to let go is because of those years of conditioning. You seem to be just only now realizing that the marriage was never going to work according to your vows or what you promised each other including the house and in your later years. 

As painful as it is it is over. You need to undo all the lies you’ve told yourself and think differently. That’s going to cause a lot of confusion for you as you’re experiencing.

[mark clemson]

The prevailing wisdom these days is that for many people, following someone you're "stuck on" on social media will delay your emotional healing. I believe there were some scientific studies on this recently, but I'm a bit too lazy to look them up. Also, they sound quite dysfunctional and may well be fighting constantly in that "dream home".  Depp and Heard looked great from the outside too, for a while. At any rate, very much suggest you stop looking at SM WRT them altogether.

[vwbeetle]

15 hours ago, Will am I said:

When I fell in love with the other woman, I relatively quickly started to feel conflicted. Basically I didn’t want to be “that guy” (the kind of man who cheats on his wife with a girlfriend two decades younger).

So I debated what to do. I believe that falling in love with someone else is a strong signal about your marriage. My first step was to what I wanted to change in the marriage, then I got my wife on board with what I wanted to change.

Did she like the message? I don’t know, not necessarily. But I did realize that I did not want to continue on the old foot. My wife never wanted a divorce so she went along. We’re seeing a counselor and making small but steady improvements.

Wow- that must have taken a lot to come to that epiphany and leave someone you love. My ex chose someone 15 years his junior, so I wonder if that’s a common thing among MM who are looking for another person? You must have an amazing wife and a helpful counselor. It’s hard for her to fight the mental images she has created in her head… I wish my ex had supported me more after his first affair and been extra attentive, say my name and not my “couple” names , and wanted to go out on dates with me. The small things make the greatest impact sometimes. 
I never wanted to divorce , but I had no choice when he told me some things that were to deliberately hurt me and my child. 
I still regret that we are divorcing , but I know our chances of succeeding after his long term affair would have been slim to none. 

[vwbeetle]

10 hours ago, mark clemson said:

The prevailing wisdom these days is that for many people, following someone you're "stuck on" on social media will delay your emotional healing. I believe there were some scientific studies on this recently, but I'm a bit too lazy to look them up. Also, they sound quite dysfunctional and may well be fighting constantly in that "dream home".  Depp and Heard looked great from the outside too, for a while. At any rate, very much suggest you stop looking at SM WRT them altogether.

Yes, I agree… I don’t have social media anymore but certain circumstances led me to find out things that I wasn’t  looking for… discoveries of truths set me back and punch my soul so I stopped looking for them on purpose. 
Regardless of whether or not they have a good relationship doesn’t seem to matter because he still gives/gave her and her kids more than he ever gave his child or me…if he is unhappy, his worst moments with her are worth more than his best moments with me. And that hurts too. 
I need to stop the thoughts in my head and the feelings of missing him all the time. Heartbreak is a pain. 
 

(thank you so much). 

[vwbeetle]

15 hours ago, glows said:

In your case it was years of stonewalling and cheating, and not just physical or romantic infidelity. It was also financial infidelity.

The problem with your situation is that you’ve conditioned yourself into trying to make it work for years while he had a proven record of not being faithful to the marriage, convincing yourself that his behaviour is fine and you’re ok to reconcile. You weren’t honest with yourself from the start. I’m wondering if it ever crossed your mind that he would do it again. Which he did.

The reason why it’s so hard for you to let go is because of those years of conditioning. You seem to be just only now realizing that the marriage was never going to work according to your vows or what you promised each other including the house and in your later years. 

As painful as it is it is over. You need to undo all the lies you’ve told yourself and think differently. That’s going to cause a lot of confusion for you as you’re experiencing.

Why do you always make sense? 🙂

I do need to reframe my thinking and start to realize (1), it is over (2) things that have happened cannot be undone, (3), I was trying to be the good wife and see past his indiscretions, (4) it is over and (5) it is over… now just to read 1,4, and 5 again and actually start to believe it… 

 

thank you 

[Will am I]

1 hour ago, vwbeetle said:

My ex chose someone 15 years his junior, so I wonder if that’s a common thing among MM who are looking for another person?

Maybe it is, if there’s a little bit of midlife crisis involved. From a 40-something year old man’s perspective: “my wife doesn’t seem to show much interest anymore, but this girl thinks I’m hot”. Being considered attractive as we age, I believe it is a common desire.

 

Also consider the other side. These young women are also choosing to be with older and unavailable men.

I can only speculate and generalize, but there may be reasons why women in their twenties make these choices that would lead to such a different path than getting involved with an available man in their own age group.

In the case of “my” former OW, she was dealing with some emotional damage and I think she sensed I could handle her. I figure that may me a more common pattern, but that’s pure speculation.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Will am I

[vwbeetle]

4 hours ago, Will am I said:

Maybe it is, if there’s a little bit of midlife crisis involved. From a 40-something year old man’s perspective: “my wife doesn’t seem to show much interest anymore, but this girl thinks I’m hot”. Being considered attractive as we age, I believe it is a common desire.

 

Also consider the other side. These young women are also choosing to be with older and unavailable men.

I can only speculate and generalize, but there may be reasons why women in their twenties make these choices that would lead to such a different path than getting involved with an available man in their own age group.

In the case of “my” former OW, she was dealing with some emotional damage and I think she sensed I could handle her. I figure that may me a more common pattern, but that’s pure speculation.

I truly believe that a bit of mid life crisis was certainly a factor. He also admitted to me that his AP was very forward jn her advances to him, and he was very flattered that a younger co worker would find him sexy and attractive. It’s weird though; after his first affair, I made it a point to always compliment him, touch him, be physical and call him sexy , etc., but later on he told me it didn’t matter because I was his wife and I was supposed to do /say things like that because I was obligated to… which was not the case at all. I truly believe (and still do) that he was the most handsome, sexiest man ever . 
I always struggle with her (his AP’s) mindset ; she actively went after a MM, and I think she was trying to find a white knight to rescue her after her divorce. She was only about three months out from her divorce, had just moved to town with her kids, and just started her new job. 
She was very smart to pursue a man with means , and who also has a tendency to want to fix and rescue . His first affair was similar , with choosing a woman with the same age difference , with a child, except that she was married still. He wanted to save her from her loveless marriage, and he did everything for her that a husband should do, and she latched onto that. He willingly went along with all these affairs and never thought about the consequences  or how it would destroy the family that he created. I just don’t know how he could just walk away from 25 years with someone and our child and not care that he doesn’t have contact with his child anymore. He used to be an active dad to her and it was literally overnight when he just stopped loving our daughter. I can understand not being happy with me as a wife and not wanting to be with me, but a child is a forever commitment and he should have kept up his role as father and provider to her. But even he admitted that the decision to stop seeing our daughter was at the suggestion of his AP, because she didn’t like that he spent time with his child on his days off. 
In reading about your former OW, it seems to fit the same pattern that my ex’s AP had. Wanting men to rescue them and heal their wounds from previous emotional trauma, and feeling love and attention from someone willing to give it. MM need to realize that their wives also need rescuing , but for some reason, we aren’t considered to need it because we are/were married to them. 
Im so glad you and your wife are working to heal together - I wish I had that as well , but I have to heal my child and myself … by myself. Maybe the new year will bring the healing I need as I actively work toward processing the devastation that I have endured .

 

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

His first affair was similar , with choosing a woman with the same age difference , with a child, except that she was married still.

No surprise here, he just wants a younger woman.  He will always go for younger women and you can't compete with that nor should you try to.

2 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

and he should have kept up his role as father and provider of her. But even he admitted that the decision to stop seeing our daughter was at the suggestion of his AP, because she didn’t like that he spent time with his child on his days off. 

Are you saying you never filed for child support and made him pay his daughter what she's owed?  This isn't her fault that he decided to stop seeing his daughter and not paying child support.  I hope you've filed for back child support by now, have you?

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by stillafool

[Will am I]

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

I truly believe that a bit of mid life crisis was certainly a factor. He also admitted to me that his AP was very forward jn her advances to him, and he was very flattered that a younger co worker would find him sexy and attractive.

And it is very flattering. My mistake going into the affair was that I had my heart way too open. In retrospect I say I wasn't actively looking, but I did have my guards down and I wa svery much open to the possibility of something romantic developing. When xOW made a move on me I was shocked but at the same time I did enjoy it an awful lot. My reaction based on the shock should have been "I can't believe you would approach a married man like that". But  when you mix in the open heart and the flattered feeling, it was more like "wow, I can't believe you would look at me like that". 

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

It’s weird though; after his first affair, I made it a point to always compliment him, touch him, be physical and call him sexy , etc., but later on he told me it didn’t matter because I was his wife and I was supposed to do /say things like that because I was obligated to… which was not the case at all. I truly believe (and still do) that he was the most handsome, sexiest man ever . 

This part is complex and difficult to respond to. I think it's kind of universal that men want to be desired. I think what that appeals to on a deeper level is a hunger for social status. When women want you, it puts you up higher on the social ladder. The sense of affirmation is a strong driver. There's something profoundly hurtful about the feeling that you're merely tolerated, accepted, but never really desired sexually (the image of an obedient but uninterested wife).

So you made a conscious effort to help your ex-husband on that level. Yet he didn't respond. It leaves me to wonder why. I can only guess that by that time his desire for sexual validation had already left the marriage and he was either unwilling or unable to reprogram himself and focus on you again. From personal experience I have to admit that this knd of refocusing does take an ongoing, conscious effort. I feel I'm only able to do that because I have accepted the consequence that it will be either change or divorce. In that sense I needed to step closer to divorce before finding the strength to really make an effort. It may sound paradoxal but the comfort zone of dragging on on the old foot can be a blocker for real progress. 

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

I always struggle with her (his AP’s) mindset ; she actively went after a MM, and I think she was trying to find a white knight to rescue her after her divorce. She was only about three months out from her divorce, had just moved to town with her kids, and just started her new job. 

I would recommend that you don't spend too much of your energy on his affair partners. The affairs caused conflict in your marriage, but that's between you and your husband. Sometimes people tend to get angry with their spouses' lovers but they're no direct party in the conflict.

Of course you'd be curious why a woman in her sound mind would do something like this. 

Essentially two possible answers. Since you don't know OW personally, you won't have the real answer, so pick the one you like most.

Either the OW does not share your moral values and doesn't give an eff about the marriage she wrecks.

Or she's just drawn to him because she's a hurt and troubled person who feels that he could be her saviour.

 

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

He willingly went along with all these affairs and never thought about the consequences  or how it would destroy the family that he created. I just don’t know how he could just walk away from 25 years with someone and our child and not care that he doesn’t have contact with his child anymore.

Eventually he will probably regret this, but affairs can cloud a person's judgement like drugs.

I remember when I first came into this forum. By that time I in the affair but I was feeling conflicted about it so I had made the very first step in turning around. It took all my strength to get my thoughts straight and I needed for several people to call me out on my motives. I really feel that my clarity was gone at the time.

 

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

In reading about your former OW, it seems to fit the same pattern that my ex’s AP had. Wanting men to rescue them and heal their wounds from previous emotional trauma, and feeling love and attention from someone willing to give it.

I think you're right on this. She was not trying to take advantage of me though. Would barely allow me to buy her even a small gift. I think she genuinely felt she needed someone older, more stable, to navigate through this period in her life. The emotional connection was real and strong.

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

MM need to realize that their wives also need rescuing , but for some reason, we aren’t considered to need it because we are/were married to them. 

There's a good and recognizable point. Somehow the younger affair partner triggers the "hero instinct" more than the wife of many years. It triggers my curiosity: why is that?

Maybe it's the age gap? Maybe the fact that these OW get involved in affairs when they are in a vulnerable positions?

 

Personal thought: my wife is my equal. She's proven herself to be very capable to take care of herself, run a family and a household. How does she even need me to rescue her? Introspection: is that me being respectful or is that me being avoidant?

Another personal thought: I did go through a lengthy period of feeling isolated and rejected. Maybe resentment stands in the way of wanting to be the rescuer.

Maybe that's TMI because this is your topic and not mine. But then, maybe to provide you with some insight with what may have been going on in the head of your ex-husband.

 

7 hours ago, vwbeetle said:

Im so glad you and your wife are working to heal together - I wish I had that as well , but I have to heal my child and myself … by myself. Maybe the new year will bring the healing I need as I actively work toward processing the devastation that I have endured .

 

A word of comfort.

I guess that real healing can only start when you accepted and embraced your decision to move on and leave the hurt-inflicting situation behind you. The fact that you're still feeling devastated after all these years does not have to mean that healing is such a slow process. Because your choice to leave the marriage was only made recently. Hopefully it will be a fast process that sets in real soon.