Should I be 'too nice' and give my former friend a second/third chance despite everything?

[TheEternalPessimist]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Are you aware that part of the problem is your own lack of boundaries - you're doing things you don't want to do and blaming her for it. 

* When she finally gave you a date, you could have just said "That's a shame, I now have things planned for those days. At this point, I can only do X time"

* You paid for both her meal and yours?   If so, that's another boundary you need to take on board.   When the bill comes, do the math and say "that works out to be $x each".  Don't sit around waiting for her to offer!

Thing is, leaving things hanging is her way and you already know this.  So she didn't apologise because this is her normal way of being and doesn't see that she did anything wrong.  You should know this about her by now.  

Now I must confess to not always returning messages from people who I'm not super close with.  I look at it and honestly do mean to return it, but then I get distracted with life.  Given that she's unorganised, I bet this exactly what happens with her.   The thing with messages is that, unlike a phone call, they don't demand immediate attention and can be forgotten.   This is both their blessing and curse depending on what you want from the interaction. 

Anyway, I would suggest that if you do choose to respond, first fix your boundaries.  Also, get an understanding with yourself that she is flaky and that's just who she is.  If you can't do both, then just ignore her.  

My problem isn't my own lack of boundaries as me being too nice. too forgiving and too lenient. 

When she came to visit me (only because her younger sister who is a minor was doing a language program in my city, btw) I paid for both their meals and mine but when I came to visit her in her country I paid for my meal and she paid for hers. Given that we almost didn't see each other, I felt like her paying for both our meals would have been a nice way to apologize and to acknowledge what I did for her the other way around when she came visiting.

[stillafool]

26 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

My problem isn't my own lack of boundaries as me being too nice. too forgiving and too lenient. 

Well here is your opportunity to change that and protect your boundaries by ignoring her and moving on with your business.

[TheEternalPessimist]

Yes you do have a point and that's why I'm assessing all my options. 

[basil67]

10 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

My problem isn't my own lack of boundaries as me being too nice. too forgiving and too lenient. 

Too forgiving and too lenient = lack of boundaries.  It's the same thing.   Both things require a person learning to say No   

Quote

When she came to visit me (only because her younger sister who is a minor was doing a language program in my city, btw) I paid for both their meals and mine but when I came to visit her in her country I paid for my meal and she paid for hers. Given that we almost didn't see each other, I felt like her paying for both our meals would have been a nice way to apologize and to acknowledge what I did for her the other way around when she came visiting.

I would also argue that you are too generous.   And I think that you're working on the theory of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".  Problem is, different people like to be treated in different ways.   Unless you're prepared to be OK with things not being even, it's probably best to start splitting bills all the time.  Or, as one of my friends and I do, we have a *spoken* acknowledgement that she pays when I visit her and I pay when she visits me.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by basil67

[TheEternalPessimist]

Her paying or not paying for both our meals is really just a detail, the problem is the bigger picture and the message that it sends which is: 'I do not care, I am ungrateful, I do not understand that I need to apologize, I think I did nothing wrong and you should consider lucky I even accepted to hang out with you'. That's also why her contacting me after 2 years and 3 months of total silence and absence is so surprising and unexpected. 

[Beachead]

@MsJayne

OP,

Given your previous thread about her from years ago and this one, this friendship isn't working for you so you should leave it be.  You don't owe her anything. 

Also as a help to yourself, as @basil67 mentioned, consider establishing better boundaries for yourself, going forward.  In this life, the only person who's going to reliably look after you is you.   Sometimes, others might do what's right, but not always, and you shouldn't rely on them to.  With this girl, you did things you didn't want to do that you blamed her for and while it might certainly make her self-centered and selfish, it's your responsibility to look after yourself and do the right thing for you.   

 For example, if a person has you jumping hoops to make plans with them, don't.  Step back, prioritize yourself and let them contact you when they're ready.  If you're not available at that point, then it's okay to say you're busy. 

- Feather

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by MisterFeather

[Acacia98]

On 12/28/2022 at 4:07 PM, Alpacalia said:

If  It is my suggestion that you figure out why you wish to allow her back into your life again and then start asking yourself if there is any reason for that. 

I second this.

On 12/28/2022 at 4:21 PM, TheEternalPessimist said:

I don't even know if I want her in my life again, I am extremely confused about the whole thing.

If I were in your shoes, I'd just ignore her. You had a great friendship for a while, and then it ended. Some friendships are meant to last for a specific period of time, and then we outgrow them. That's fine. 

In my books, flakiness is disrespect, so there's a limit to how many chances I'm gonna give someone who becomes habitually flaky in their dealings with me. I am quite capable of shutting a door on a friendship in the present while appreciating the person's role in my life in the past. The good thing about being able to do this is that I stop putting myself in situations where the person disrespects me. And so I don't waste an extra joule of energy feeling pissed off that they did something I expected them to do.

On 12/28/2022 at 6:45 PM, TheEternalPessimist said:

I deleted her from Facebook which I barely use and from Instagram which she barely uses so I disagree that it's the same thing as blocking her. I very rarely block people on social media unless they really do something stupid like insult me, attack my family and things like that. 

That's perfectly fine. You get to set your own rules on this. But I think it's shortsighted of you to assume blocking is immature. In this case, blocking her would have set a firmer boundary than simply unfriending her. You know why? Well, she wouldn't have been able to reach out to you and you wouldn't have been sitting here feeling confused or upset. 

On 12/29/2022 at 12:33 AM, basil67 said:

* When she finally gave you a date, you could have just said "That's a shame, I now have things planned for those days. At this point, I can only do X time"

* You paid for both her meal and yours?   If so, that's another boundary you need to take on board.   When the bill comes, do the math and say "that works out to be $x each".  Don't sit around waiting for her to offer!

(...)

Anyway, I would suggest that if you do choose to respond, first fix your boundaries.  Also, get an understanding with yourself that she is flaky and that's just who she is.  If you can't do both, then just ignore her.  

I agree with this assessment.

On 12/29/2022 at 12:08 PM, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's also why her contacting me after 2 years and 3 months of total silence and absence is so surprising and unexpected. 

Her contacting you is neither surprising nor unexpected in my opinion. In my experience, flaky people eventually pop out of the woodwork and, if you allow them to, continue being flaky. Her behavior is as predictable as the rising of the sun.

On 12/29/2022 at 4:05 PM, MisterFeather said:

Given your previous thread about her from years ago and this one, this friendship isn't working for you so you should leave it be.  You don't owe her anything. 

Also as a help to yourself, as @basil67 mentioned, consider establishing better boundaries for yourself, going forward.  In this life, the only person who's going to reliably look after you is you.   Sometimes, others might do what's right, but not always, and you shouldn't rely on them to.  With this girl, you did things you didn't want to do that you blamed her for and while it might certainly make her self-centered and selfish, it's your responsibility to look after yourself and do the right thing for you.   

 For example, if a person has you jumping hoops to make plans with them, don't.  Step back, prioritize yourself and let them contact you when they're ready.  If you're not available at that point, then it's okay to say you're busy. 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I second this.

If I were in your shoes, I'd just ignore her. You had a great friendship for a while, and then it ended. Some friendships are meant to last for a specific period of time, and then we outgrow them. That's fine. 

In my books, flakiness is disrespect, so there's a limit to how many chances I'm gonna give someone who becomes habitually flaky in their dealings with me. I am quite capable of shutting a door on a friendship in the present while appreciating the person's role in my life in the past. The good thing about being able to do this is that I stop putting myself in situations where the person disrespects me. And so I don't waste an extra joule of energy feeling pissed off that they did something I expected them to do.

That's perfectly fine. You get to set your own rules on this. But I think it's shortsighted of you to assume blocking is immature. In this case, blocking her would have set a firmer boundary than simply unfriending her. You know why? Well, she wouldn't have been able to reach out to you and you wouldn't have been sitting here feeling confused or upset. 

I agree with this assessment.

Her contacting you is neither surprising nor unexpected in my opinion. In my experience, flaky people eventually pop out of the woodwork and, if you allow them to, continue being flaky. Her behavior is as predictable as the rising of the sun.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

So are you saying she is doing this deliberately to try and play with my nerves? If so, she had over 2 years to do it so why now? What could she gain from trying to bring me back into her life after such a long time?

[stillafool]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:05 AM, MisterFeather said:

Given your previous thread about her from years ago and this one, this friendship isn't working for you so you should leave it be.  You don't owe her anything. 

I agree and she should be long forgotten by you by now.  Why do you want her friendship so badly?

[Acacia98]

8 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

So are you saying she is doing this deliberately to try and play with my nerves? If so, she had over 2 years to do it so why now? What could she gain from trying to bring me back into her life after such a long time?

I'm not actually saying that. If I had to speculate (and that's all I can do because I don't know her), I'd say you're not very high on her list of priorities, so she talks to you when she doesn't have folks she "values" more to hang out with. If you make plans with her and then she changes them at the last minute, that may be because someone else came along who wanted to do stuff on the same day and she preferred to go with that person's plans, so she tossed your plans aside. That's generally how flaky folks are. That behavior is not a reflection of you or your value as a human being. Rather, it's a reflection of the flaky person.

She's probably reaching out to you now because there's suddenly a gap in her social life. Maybe she's broken up with her significant other. Maybe her friend has moved away or she's fallen out with them. Maybe she's moved to a new place and knows few people. She may remember you used to go above and beyond to do stuff for her even when she didn't care enough to reciprocate, so if she's feeling low and needs an ego boost, she may be hoping you can play that role in her life now.

[glows]

There’s a possibility she doesn’t think that deeply about your friendship and her passing you your things back then was an inconvenience. When it was done there was no other reason to keep in touch. Who knows. She might even have not wanted to have anything to do with you after that. 2 years went by and she changed her mind. 

In situations like this, you can choose to take things at face value or speculate to death about what she’s thinking or what she wants. You will never know anyway if you don’t respond to her. 

Figure out whether you feel it’s worth the hassle but this will continue to go around in circles as you simply do not know what’s going on in her head. You didn’t know back then and it’s 2 years later with more distance and estrangement - even less to go off of and no knowledge of her life whatsoever and what’s going on with her directly from her.

[TheEternalPessimist]

17 hours ago, stillafool said:

I agree and she should be long forgotten by you by now.  Why do you want her friendship so badly?

I don't want it so badly. Like I said many times before, I am assessing my options. It's almost like she is the one wanting my friendship so badly because she contacted me after so long even though I had all but forgotten about her.

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

19 hours ago, stillafool said:

I agree and she should be long forgotten by you by now.  Why do you want her friendship so badly?

I don't want it so badly. Like I said many times before, I am assessing my options. It's almost like she is the one wanting my friendship so badly because she contacted me after so long even though I had all but forgotten about her.

Who contacted who isn't important. What's important is that, by your own admission, the friendship felt very one-sided for you and created a lot of hurt and disappointment.

Do you have other friends? How are those friendships compared to this one?

I get that it can feel almost impossible for you to cut ties with certain friends, especially ones that you’ve grown up with or have known a very long time, but you can and you should if a friendship isn’t bringing anything remotely good into your life, and that goes double if your friend is making you feel bad about yourself.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't sound like you've been friends for a long time. What makes this friendship in particular "so special" to you. Really.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Alpacalia

[stillafool]

38 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

What makes this friendship in particular "so special" to you. Really.

Yes this was what I'm asking because most people would have read her message laughed at it and then blocked or ignored her.  I've let friends go for way less than this woman has done to you.  Even moving to a new town, don't you want a fresh start?  Do you really want to start off with a toxic instead of meeting new ones?

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

I'm not 'most people'. And I guess what makes this friendship so special (not sure I would call it that but whatever) is the fact that she was the first person I met and lived with when I finally moved out of my parent's place in 2018.

I am not moving to any new town, I already moved in 2020.

[Alpacalia]

There is an African American saying, “I can do bad all by myself,” which simply means – what do you need them for, if you’re going to feel bad anyway? A friend that wastes your time is not concerned with how you feel. The relationship is likely one-sided and at times demanding.

Good luck to you.

[TheEternalPessimist]

It certainly felt one-sided and demanding in the last few months of our friendship in 2020 which is why her contacting me again now is so stupid, unexpected and weird. 

[glows]

21 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

the fact that she was the first person I met and lived with when I finally moved out of my parent's place in 2018.

I see the significance - why the friendship meant a good deal to you.

People change and this may be the first of many friendships evolving and losing touch with one another over the years. We can’t get upset at everyone who doesn’t respond or resurrects from nowhere, coming out of the woodwork for no reason etc. That’s a sure way to always be frustrated.

Treat this as a mild annoyance but decide quickly whether you want to hang onto the friendship or leave it alone. It’s ok to let go. Do you have a good support of others around you now?

[TheEternalPessimist]

56 minutes ago, glows said:

I see the significance - why the friendship meant a good deal to you.

People change and this may be the first of many friendships evolving and losing touch with one another over the years. We can’t get upset at everyone who doesn’t respond or resurrects from nowhere, coming out of the woodwork for no reason etc. That’s a sure way to always be frustrated.

Treat this as a mild annoyance but decide quickly whether you want to hang onto the friendship or leave it alone. It’s ok to let go. Do you have a good support of others around you now?

And that's fine, I know friendships change. I'm not exactly crying or getting depressed over us not being as close as before though I question also how close we really were back than anyways. 

In general, I don't have a lot of friends. I have somewhat lost my ability and my will to socialize and meet new people, most of my real life friends live abroad.

[stillafool]

On 1/2/2023 at 7:10 PM, TheEternalPessimist said:

I'm not 'most people'. And I guess what makes this friendship so special (not sure I would call it that but whatever) is the fact that she was the first person I met and lived with when I finally moved out of my parent's place in 2018.

Apparently not.  My first boyfriend was the first guy I dated and kissed,  then he cheated on me more than once; but that fact doesn't entitle him to be allowed

 back into my life anymore. 

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

 I have somewhat lost my ability and my will to socialize and meet new people, 

Perhaps it would be better to work on the above to meet new people and say good bye to bad rubbish.

[TheEternalPessimist]

I don't see what your boyfriend cheating on you more than once (sorry about that) has to do with my case. 

[glows]

8 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I question also how close we really were back than anyways. 

I’ve done the same and discovered my views on friendships and relationships have also changed over the years. What might have constituted a close friendship or deeper/committed relationship a few decades ago is different from what I think now.

Maybe you weren’t as close as you thought. Does it mean the memories are any less meaningful? Or that period of time? It sounds like a lot of growth in a short period.

Edited January 4, 2023 by glows

[TheEternalPessimist]

They're a lot of things about our friendship I never understood and which never made sense to me. The more I think about it, the more I lean towards ignoring her message altogether. It's already been a week anyways. 

[glows]

What were the other things that didn’t make sense?

[TheEternalPessimist]

It made no sense to invite me over to her family to celebrate Christmas only to act so flaky a few months afterwards, for instance. If you don't want me to be a part of your friends circle, why invite me over for such a private event? Also, reaching out to me after over 2 years of us not talking to each other and not seeing each other feels super weird to me. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by TheEternalPessimist