Will she come back, or did I mess up royally?

[CarterS]

Hey All,

I’m sure you’ve heard all sorts of unique situations when it comes to breakups and getting your ex back. My situation is quite complex, and I would like real insight on how to proceed to get her back. My name is Carter (29), her name is Barb (29)

My story starts in June 2018. In June, what started out as a platonic relationship turned into something more serious as I began to date my ex-girlfriend, Barb. From June 2018 to until October 2018 we went on multiple dates and spent every waking hour either talking on the phone, texting, or hanging out at her parents’ place or my parents’ place. It was around this time I brought up the topic that most females find themselves bringing up. “What are we?” Her just coming out of a 6-year toxic relationship that ultimately broke her, she was very hesitant to offer commitment. So, I gave her an ultimatum, I knew what I wanted in life, and I didn’t want to continue to build with someone who was unsure about what she wanted. She agreed to take our relationship to the next stage, and we became official November 2018. 

Our committed relationship had many up and downs, but one big factor was co-dependency. The dynamic felt like I was parenting her, making sure she stayed focused on her goals, and not slacking off. She would look to me to figure how to move in her life next, taking my feelings into account more than her own and what she wanted to do. She was very hesitant to change. Change was not good; she was very comfortable with her surroundings and almost never ventured out to take risks. She doesn’t trust herself to make decisions, and her self-worth was and still is very low.

This stems from her childhood. She grew up with a mother who fled from her father when she was 4 after her father consistently physically abused and raped her mother. Growing up, her mom being single worked 3 jobs to pay for all the bills on her own and her grandmother essentially raised her. Her mom was extremely critical of her, never approving of any of her decisions. As a teen she acted out a lot, sneaking out, smoking weed, getting into fights, skipping school. Her mom was overly strict, trying to shelter her from the outside world. Just leaving the house to hang with friends was a high-ranked mission. This ultimately bred an anxious attachment style in her adult life, which really was at the forefront of our relationship. 

My childhood was different, I grew up with both parents, with a mother who gave me the freedom to make my own decisions and a dad who was strict, but fair. They were both active in my life, and led with love when nurturing me, I’m a very goal-oriented person, with ungodly amounts of determination. Which has gotten me as far as I have in my life for better or for worse (more on that in a minute). I hold myself accountable for everything I say I’m going to do and follow through; I consider myself extremely reliable. Almost never wanting to let anyone down. I’m always in go-mode. I tried to rub off on her, and I think I pushed her too hard and only made her feelings of not being good enough worse, when I only wanted to build her back up after being beaten down. 

Whenever she would get defensive, and flighty I always chased and tried to console, reassure her and not open the abandonment wounds again. I found myself enabling her in the relationship which also didn’t help with the co-dependency. I just wanted to portray that nothing bad would ever have to happen to her again, but it didn’t have that affect, I see this now. My doing that only made things worse. She truly felt she couldn’t do anything on her own without me instead. The last argument March 2020 that really did the relationship in, was her going back to school. Barb aspires to be a councillor to at risk teens in the community, or a licensed therapist to help others with personably relatable traumas of her own. I know the only way to do this was for her to go back to school, but she was hesitant to start up school again, she had done a 2-year program when she was 21, and it was a lot for her. So, the prospect of going back for 4 years and getting a degree made her stiff with fear unwilling to move, and obviously me being the person who’s trying to push her into her goals, pressed the issue and I told her that I can’t be with her right now if she doesn’t have the independence to do things without my approval or permission. I wanted her to want to go back to school on her own merit and start making moves on her own and build that independence, so I decided to end things March 2020 after she missed registrations again from the fear of not being good enough. 

A few months after we broke up, she moved out of her mom’s house in October 2020 and moved into a small 3 bed apartment with 2 other roommates. She tried to begin her life of freedom from her mother’s rule, and by extension I guess you could say my rule as well. She registered for her 4-year degree program in Mental Health and Addictions a few months later in February 2021, set to begin Fall 2021 and was working 3 jobs. I loved to see it, she was really trying to step it up, but I wanted to see if it was sustainable not just post breakup courage, as Fall 2021 was still about year away.

I stayed very present in her life, but constantly had to remind her that we were not together. As to not fall back into codependency and continue to foster that independence. Looking back, this also did more harm then good. 

I was doing my own thing seeing other women and playing the field, while her anxious attachment forced her to constantly stick around, I got comfortable. I was playing the field trying to find; a young, educated, determined, unvaccinated, like-minded individual. While I knew I had Barb as a backup, the hope was in time she would have begun to do things on her own and I would just circle back to a brand-new individual.

From March 2020 - November 2021, we were in regular contact, had regular sex, and very much a part of each other’s lives while I constantly told her we’re just friends even though my actions and affection showed her something different. However, I met someone October 2021 who was all the things I was looking for in a woman. In November 2021 Barb met someone, who would ultimately begin to pull her away as well. This forced me and Barb to fall out of touch from November 2021 – January 2022. Me and this woman didn’t end up working out, and it really hurt me because she was all the things I was looking for (educated, young, determined) but she also grew up with dad issues from a dad who never showed her or her mom love, and commitment issues. So, it didn’t work out when we had a conversation after 3 months of constantly seeing each other and going on dates.

So naturally I began to show up in Barb's life more often in February 2022. She welcomed me with open arms. By March 2022 she tells me about this guy who she’s seeing kind of often, but whose told her she’s just his friend. I tell her I’m happy she felt comfortable enough to talk to other people and wasn’t just sulking but looking back I unintentionally gave her the green light to add sex to that otherwise platonic dynamic. That would have been the perfect opportunity for me to get jealous or show her something, but I didn’t want to rob her of an experience. 

Outside of me and her 6-year ex, she has no experience with men. Outside of talking lightly to a few guys here or there, she had only seriously talked to and shared her body with us 2 men. However, her being an empath and as we know women have an emotional attachment to sex more than men do, that allowed them to get even closer. I opened to her in July 2022 about the fact that I treated her like a partner over the past year, and not as an ex normally would. Who would have seen their way out of your life right after the breakup. I told her it was a mind [ ] to build her independence, I knew the emotions you felt were true, but I tried to deny your reality by telling you we were not together. She was relieved to know her heart wasn’t wrong but also mad that she had to go through that hurt for months. She was also faced with a new dilemma - now she’s exposed to two individuals who say you’re just their friend, but you’re more.

It was at this point she asked for space. I wouldn’t give it to her. I chased even harder. I wouldn’t let her breathe; I didn’t want to lose her after taking her for granted. I expressed to her that I didn’t want to feel like I wasn’t important in her life, so she obliged and made the time for me. Even though it caused so much more stress on her part, trying to perform this new balancing act. This is to give insight on the type of woman she is. If she truly cares about you, she will abandon herself to accommodate. 

Me being very present in her life at this point, I asked hundreds of questions, she tried to abstain to save my feelings as she was now torn between two men, but I got angry whenever she withheld information about him. I was the source of my own torture, which led to intense feeling of jealousy. I know now her decisions had less to with me and more to do with her but that doesn’t make it hurt any less when I know the guy isn’t any good for her. I know this because of all the questions and snooping. 

Whenever Barb fell onto hard times, I was still always there for her, as she still didn’t feel comfortable opening up to the new guy yet, especially financially. When she lost her job in June 2022 due to vaccine requirements, I paid her rent for 2 months so she wouldn’t lose her apartment, which would have been a major blow her to ability to feel like she could do things on her own, but we both agreed its not sustainable and at the time finding another job without the vaccine was hard, so she moved back home in August 2022.

James (31) was an old acquaintance who she went to high school with. Was in a 10-year relationship with the mother of his 2yr old daughter until November 2021. The same time him and Barb connected. They used each other to get over their relationships and there was a lot of love bombing in the beginning. James grew up a foster child and was on his own since he was 18 and has a very harsh exterior and an avoidant attachment style. She expressed to me how he speaks to her when he gets angry. He speaks to her with no regard, harsh, very disrespectful when he gets angry, and he calls her out of her name (which I’ve never ever done or would ever do). I guess you could say it’s like the way her dad is, which is [messed] up. So, she sees no wrong and she’ll put it “its only when he’s mad”. He’s a closed book who isn’t comfortable with communication, expressing his feelings or being vulnerable. Which is the opposite of me. Which is the perfect storm for an avoidant-anxious attachment trap (google this). Their sitautionship went to the next level when Barb basically started living at his apartment in September 2022 after moving home and not even lasting a month as she began butting heads again with her mother. I didn’t have my own place so staying with me didn’t make any sense when James had an apartment all to himself. She was basically staying there full time, as she has no job and most of her studies could be done online. She would seldom come home to see her cat or her mom. Just for a change of clothes from time to time. I think her adept knowledge in traumas and psyche from her degree program puts her and her anxious attachment style in a peculiar spot. Couple this with immense amounts of empathy, Barb is in an even worse position as she can sympathize with James past and not hold his actions against him but try to see him through the unhealthy behaviours and try to love him through it all. 

I know Barb wants to have kids, and not be a single mother. She wants to give her children a life she couldn’t have, and we were always on the same page about that. We spoke about our future regularly, even after the breakup. However, she can’t even get into future planning with James because he has told her that even though he obviously cares about her and enjoys her presence (he’s letting her basically live in his apartment) he still doesn’t want to put a label on anything and wants to continue their emotional roller-coaster.

From July 2022 I’ve tried to shower her with love and gifts and a better life. We got front row seats to the Weeknd concert, which is her favourite artist in October 2022, and had amazing sex afterwards. Our sex is always electric which is good for me because she admits that he doesn’t make her cum at all. For her sex with him is a selfless act to make him feel good for the moment. We’ve had sex only once or twice a month for the past 9 months. Prior to March 2022, it was once or twice a week.

They had a huge falling out where I believe the new relationship energy (NRE) died at the end of October 2022. She calls me in tears after they had gotten into what would appear to be a shouting match about the dynamic between her and her mom. I picked her up which was across the city. When I got the gas station she had been at, she had all her stuff in bags. I imagine he kicked her out after the argument. So, I took her to my parents’ place consoled for a few days, but then they amended things a week later. By November 2022 she was back over there. I was her emotional sponge, as this man has no idea how to conflict mange or be considerate. It was at this point I told myself if this toxic cycle is what you want to continue in leave me alone. 

I actively tried no contact in November 2022. But she can’t even go a week without talking to me, and each time she reached out I agreed to meet up and hang and talk, but only if she reached out first. I stopped investing energy. I stopped calling or texting first. If she’s so happy there, then leave me the hell out of that mess, but she couldn’t leave me alone and we would still have sex. 

I have so much to look forward to, I just landed a job that pays me 6 figures, I just bought a condo in the heart of downtown I close and move in 30 days, a fully decked out muscle car, young (29) and tall 6’1 (lol since it matters for women). She must know what she wants and needs to stop making excuses for him. She has wants and needs and can’t abandon herself to accommodate him, but she will because that’s who she is. Even though she wouldn’t admit that’s what she’s doing, chasing him in the avoidant-anxious trap.

In December 2022 I tried to express to her that I’m in it for the long haul, but she brings up that I only became more serious about her once I found out how serious she is about James. Which is partially true, but I also know James can’t give her the life she’s told me she wants for her future. The longer she stays in this dynamic the harder it will be for her to leave. She’s accepting of the title just his friend – with benefits, because she believes it’s just because he doesn’t “trust easily” “you can’t truly know someone after a year of talking” James is breadcrumbing her along, because she, like all women want stability and eventually commitment. He can’t make her feel crazy for wanting commitment forever. I just don’t know how many more times she needs to hear no, no labels, let’s just keep vibing before she wakes up. She makes excuses for him with her knowledge on people with abandonment issues who’s felt alone in this world.

So, we spent New Year’s Eve together. Had a long talk with lots of tears by her, apologizing for everything she put me through the past 6 months and forgave me for all my jealous outbursts and my behaviour the past 6 months. That evening we had amazing sex one last time. I got up and left 15 minutes after midnight though. With her in tears I told her, I’m leaving this mess in 2022. If you want me let me know, otherwise do not contact me. 

By January 5 lol she reaches out. Asking if she can borrow my laptop since her resume is on here and she’s falling behind on bills now. So, she wants to get a part time job, so I obliged. Then she asks me to take her cat from her mom’s house when I move into my place in 3 weeks. I’m like "No why the hell would I do that?” She can’t bring her cat to James place because he has a big aggressive dog. She got carried away by asking me that, and I think it’s because I guess I responded in kind to her asking to borrow my laptop for the day. Though that was only because I know her resume is on here and don’t want to be vindictive, but asking me to take your cat? To me it sounded like she just wanted to maintain some sort of tether to me, so that I can’t fully walk away. So, when I obviously said no to moving her cat in with me, she said forget about the laptop and will just build her resume from scratch lol go figure. I said, “okay whatever man”. “Please don’t reach back out to me unless somethings changed”. She replied "Im terrified, its always been you" I never responded as I imagine she means, she doesn't know how to navigate her life now since its always been me who she looked to.

 

TL:DR

If your ex is in a new relationship with someone else, what are the chances she comes back?

Edited January 10, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[NuevoYorko]

I just read the synopsis.  The answer:  Chances are quite slim.  I know one or two people who ended up with a relationship from their past.  One couple are in their 60's and they were high school sweethearts who reunited after both had married and divorced.  In any case, don't hold out for it.

[glows]

I read the whole post and it’s rather telling how dysfunctional and damaging this relationship was to both of you. As you said yourself she has some growing to do. This is a mismatch on so many levels. You hit the nail on the head with your codependency. 

Unless you look for help for that and start changing the way you view people as projects and yourself as a helper, you’ll always want more inexperienced, damaged, naive or broken people in your life to fix. Why did you ever think this was acceptable in a romantic sense? I think you know this would never work and you may be struggling with that.

I’m also going to draw attention to the way she answered you that you wouldn’t have wanted to be with her until you got jealous of James, the man she’s seeing now. No, James isn’t good for her but you’re not the one to tell her that either. She needs to figure it out on her own. She’s not available to date if she’s not interested in you or wanting to pursue this so step back and respect that. You have too much of a tendency to try to navigate someone else’s life. That part has to change.

Edited January 8, 2023 by glows

[CarterS]

28 minutes ago, glows said:

I read the whole post and it’s rather telling how dysfunctional and damaging this relationship was to both of you. As you said yourself she has some growing to do. This is a mismatch on so many levels. You hit the nail on the head with your codependency. 

Unless you look for help for that and start changing the way you view people as projects and yourself as a helper, you’ll always want more inexperienced, damaged, naive or broken people in your life to fix. Why did you ever think this was acceptable in a romantic sense? I think you know this would never work and you may be struggling with that.

I’m also going to draw attention to the way she answered you that you wouldn’t have wanted to be with her until you got jealous of James, the man she’s seeing now. No, James isn’t good for her but you’re not the one to tell her that either. She needs to figure it out on her own. She’s not available to date if she’s not interested in you or wanting to pursue this so step back and respect that. You have too much of a tendency to try to navigate someone else’s life. That part has to change.

Thanks glows,

Truth be told I am struggling with this, it's all still very fresh. I posted my situation on a random forum for an outside perspective. I loved the insight. Sometimes we have to hear the hard truths, so do I appreciate your reply. I guess I honestly thought I could love her into her own potential. I'm sure there's thousands of books on how this is not possible, but I guess some have to live and learn the hard way. 

Me trying to convince her James is no good for her also probably didn't land well coming from me. I realized this after multiple attempts in the last months, nothing I say no matter how true won't hold weight, and will probably be seen as just more jealousy. So in that department I left it alone. She does have to figure that out on her own, I guess it's part of her journey. I do hate to see her go through this again though, because above all else I do love her still.

In August I started seeing a therapist to try and navigate my control complex. Its been helpful, and im trying to change this for future endeavours.

[CarterS]

42 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

I just read the synopsis.  The answer:  Chances are quite slim.  I know one or two people who ended up with a relationship from their past.  One couple are in their 60's and they were high school sweethearts who reunited after both had married and divorced.  In any case, don't hold out for it.

It was quite the novel, my apologies. I'm sure most questions don't hit the 3000 word count.

Im beginning the no contact, and hopefully once enough time passes, months or years its possible. I just thought my situation may have been different. However I don't think im that lucky.

[glows]

16 minutes ago, CarterS said:

Thanks glows,

Truth be told I am struggling with this, it's all still very fresh. I posted my situation on a random forum for an outside perspective. I loved the insight. Sometimes we have to hear the hard truths, so do I appreciate your reply. I guess I honestly thought I could love her into her own potential. I'm sure there's thousands of books on how this is not possible, but I guess some have to live and learn the hard way. 

Me trying to convince her James is no good for her also probably didn't land well coming from me. I realized this after multiple attempts in the last months, nothing I say no matter how true won't hold weight, and will probably be seen as just more jealousy. So in that department I left it alone. She does have to figure that out on her own, I guess it's part of her journey. I do hate to see her go through this again though, because above all else I do love her still.

In August I started seeing a therapist to try and navigate my control complex. Its been helpful, and im trying to change this for future endeavours.

Writing with clarity or understanding the situation helps us reflect. Have you tried journaling? You can also look back at previous entries and see changes in you over time once you start putting in that work. Or note patterns in your behaviour or thinking that you’d like to change. Where I don’t find it as helpful is capitalizing on one emotion like anger and frustration and dwelling on that emotion for long periods. Maybe it’s jealousy even. Or on the subject of wanting to “love a person into their own potential”. You will be able to see where you’re spending the most of your energy.

Talk with your therapist too and share what you think or feel as you learn about yourself. 

When we get to know someone sometimes what is and what we hope for that person to be becomes blurred. You’re so emotionally invested that it feels impossible not to hope. Eventually that becomes draining and counterproductive. I think she should have been accepted as she was even though you might not have thought she was educated enough, independent enough or of similar thinking as you. 

The best thing you did was letting her go and the worst thing is trying to get her back. Her response to you gives me the sense that she’s guarded around you now and isn’t as trustful either.

I’m sure she has feelings for you but she’s holding back because she knows innately the relationship is unhealthy. How can it be equally and mutually respectful when she knows that you don’t think of her as an equal? 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, CarterS said:

   If your ex is in a new relationship with someone else, what are the chances she comes back?

The best way for you to feel better is to move forward with your own life. Leave the past in the past. Get all your stuff exchanged and sorted, then delete and block her. There's no point dragging this out.

[CarterS]

7 hours ago, glows said:

Writing with clarity or understanding the situation helps us reflect. Have you tried journaling? You can also look back at previous entries and see changes in you over time once you start putting in that work. Or note patterns in your behaviour or thinking that you’d like to change. Where I don’t find it as helpful is capitalizing on one emotion like anger and frustration and dwelling on that emotion for long periods. Maybe it’s jealousy even. Or on the subject of wanting to “love a person into their own potential”. You will be able to see where you’re spending the most of your energy.

Talk with your therapist too and share what you think or feel as you learn about yourself. 

When we get to know someone sometimes what is and what we hope for that person to be becomes blurred. You’re so emotionally invested that it feels impossible not to hope. Eventually that becomes draining and counterproductive. I think she should have been accepted as she was even though you might not have thought she was educated enough, independent enough or of similar thinking as you. 

The best thing you did was letting her go and the worst thing is trying to get her back. Her response to you gives me the sense that she’s guarded around you now and isn’t as trustful either.

I’m sure she has feelings for you but she’s holding back because she knows innately the relationship is unhealthy. How can it be equally and mutually respectful when she knows that you don’t think of her as an equal? 

It did help me once I wrote this out. It kind of put everything in perspective. I haven't tried journaling, but I've heard its effective as another form of release. My therapist has been really helpful in pointing out areas of my life that caused me to think this way, and alternatives to react better in certain situations. 

Youre absolutely right. I think that is my biggest regret. I should have accepted her as she was. That was the only way to make her feel good enough. It was draining trying it my way, and I only ended up hurting her and myself. She definitely probably feels safer in her new relationship, even if its toxic. Simply because he doesn't push her to do anything. I feel responsible for her falling into that unfortunate situation. I guess a part of me trying to get her back was to save her from the inevitable heartbreak at the end of that road as well.

[CarterS]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

The best way for you to feel better is to move forward with your own life. Leave the past in the past. Get all your stuff exchanged and sorted, then delete and block her. There's no point dragging this out.

Today will be Day 2 of the 2nd attempt at this.

[glows]

1 hour ago, CarterS said:

She definitely probably feels safer in her new relationship, even if its toxic. Simply because he doesn't push her to do anything. I feel responsible for her falling into that unfortunate situation. I guess a part of me trying to get her back was to save her from the inevitable heartbreak at the end of that road as well.

This, exactly. I’d explore why the need to push someone. That’s not your job and it can be interpreted as horribly disrespectful and an unwanted kind of attention. Most people want to be accepted as they are especially if they’re healthy individuals with thoughts, goals of their own. She’s demonstrated an interest in pursuing her studies but seems to be caught up in dysfunctional relationships.

She didn’t always work according to your timeline but she appears to be doing it and achieving her goals now. The key thing to note is she doesn’t need you to tell her what to do. And a person who does needs counselling from a neutral third party professional who is not emotionally or physically invested or involved with her, not direction from a person like you. Any mental health issues or hang ups are not your problem to solve or save her from.

She may already sense that you still don’t accept her for who she is and just want to keep changing her life. The core issue is you can’t seem to accept her as she is and distrust her decisions. I don’t know why that is. I firmly believe we need to trust in the decisions of our partners for there to be any foundation in a relationship. You’re taking on far too much and hurting yourself in the process.

 

[CarterS]

1 hour ago, glows said:

This, exactly. I’d explore why the need to push someone. That’s not your job and it can be interpreted as horribly disrespectful and an unwanted kind of attention. Most people want to be accepted as they are especially if they’re healthy individuals with thoughts, goals of their own. She’s demonstrated an interest in pursuing her studies but seems to be caught up in dysfunctional relationships.

She didn’t always work according to your timeline but she appears to be doing it and achieving her goals now. The key thing to note is she doesn’t need you to tell her what to do. And a person who does needs counselling from a neutral third party professional who is not emotionally or physically invested or involved with her, not direction from a person like you. Any mental health issues or hang ups are not your problem to solve or save her from.

She may already sense that you still don’t accept her for who she is and just want to keep changing her life. The core issue is you can’t seem to accept her as she is and distrust her decisions. I don’t know why that is. I firmly believe we need to trust in the decisions of our partners for there to be any foundation in a relationship. You’re taking on far too much and hurting yourself in the process.

 

I'll bring up the need to push in my next session.

I took on that job, even though I wasn't qualified to do so. I was too invest, and my vision definitely became blurry. I couldn't, and can't save her. I truly only wanted her to take the path of least resistance, so I often took charge. Ultimately I know I can't control people or what they want to do, I've realized this too late.

My wish is that she doesn't lose herself in that situation before I have the chance to show her I do love her just the way she is. For right now, I will continue to enforce NC. Hopefully with time away she'll miss me and the commitment to a better life I was desperately trying to offer her.

[glows]

21 minutes ago, CarterS said:

I'll bring up the need to push in my next session.

I took on that job, even though I wasn't qualified to do so. I was too invest, and my vision definitely became blurry. I couldn't, and can't save her. I truly only wanted her to take the path of least resistance, so I often took charge. Ultimately I know I can't control people or what they want to do, I've realized this too late.

My wish is that she doesn't lose herself in that situation before I have the chance to show her I do love her just the way she is. For right now, I will continue to enforce NC. Hopefully with time away she'll miss me and the commitment to a better life I was desperately trying to offer her.

It’s that very idea believing that someone needs to be saved that’s leading to all the other issues like need to change someone and a need for control. I’m curious why you feel she needs saving - this indicates disagreement with her choices yet again and you giving yourself a reason to need to change her. That completely needs to stop. When someone disagrees with you on fundamental issues it means you’re not compatible. Seeking to change someone is unhealthy and on many levels, so wrong.

She may be perfectly within her own rights and making a reasonable choice for herself at this point in time. She pays her bills now without your help, she’s seeing a guy, she’s interested in her studies and she has a plan for herself. She doesn’t look like she needs saving at all. 

She chooses not to be with you in a committed relationship for her own reasons which need to be respected as well. Even as you write or realize you’re looking to change her you’re still wanting her to be a different person. It’s called being selfish as well when we cannot respect the wishes of someone else.

No contact is also to heal and permanently put a situation behind you, not to manipulate another person into missing you. It’s using reverse psychology and it’s not going to be received well by most people who have a healthy sense of self-esteem. I’d accept her choices and move on for good. Stop trying to change her and manipulating this so she wants to be with you. If she’s not interested in pursuing this further, only respect what she’s saying. Go no contact to help yourself out this behind you for good.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

You are at least as codependent as she is, perhaps more so. 

Only someone with really poor boundaries would get lost in the delusion that he could direct someone else's life. And hey, why do you want to be with someone whose life you can direct? Why not get a pet for that? Maybe you want children in the future---save your wisdom and guidance for that.

And you guys have sex while you're friends. That's a guaranteed loser situation. Guaranteed. 

Bottom line: both of you are dysfunctionally entangled with each other to no good end. And any one who dates either one of you will run into that dysfunctional entanglement. Basically what happens between you guys could be summarized in a few sentences. Somehow you are getting lost in irrelevant detail and every little back and forth and as a result you are obscuring your vision, your clarity. 

Best for you to leave all rescue fantasies, all the white knight fantasies back in junior high school where they belong. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[JTSW]

Ok, so I read the whole thing too.

You liked to portray yourself as her hero and savour when in fact you were the opposite.

You kept inserting yourself into her life and messing with her head.

She tried to make something of her life but your continual presence dragged her back.

You were never good for her OP.

You were what stopped her from moving forward.

You clearly don't like her being with other men and subconsciously inserted yourself in her life to causing confusion.

You need to let her go.

She needs to learn to navigate through life without you in her doorway and you've never given her this chance.

On 1/8/2023 at 3:56 AM, CarterS said:

I was playing the field trying to find; a young, educated, determined, unvaccinated, like-minded individual. While I knew I had Barb as a backup

I hate that you thought of her as this, like you always knew you could get what you wanted out of her if you couldn't get it elsewhere.

[Wiseman2]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:43 AM, CarterS said:

Today will be Day 2 of the 2nd attempt at this.

True. She's living with someone else now so it doesn't seem repairable. You'll have to back away and let her get on with her life.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Wiseman2

[CarterS]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:00 PM, glows said:

It’s that very idea believing that someone needs to be saved that’s leading to all the other issues like need to change someone and a need for control. I’m curious why you feel she needs saving - this indicates disagreement with her choices yet again and you giving yourself a reason to need to change her. That completely needs to stop. When someone disagrees with you on fundamental issues it means you’re not compatible. Seeking to change someone is unhealthy and on many levels, so wrong.

She may be perfectly within her own rights and making a reasonable choice for herself at this point in time. She pays her bills now without your help, she’s seeing a guy, she’s interested in her studies and she has a plan for herself. She doesn’t look like she needs saving at all. 

She chooses not to be with you in a committed relationship for her own reasons which need to be respected as well. Even as you write or realize you’re looking to change her you’re still wanting her to be a different person. It’s called being selfish as well when we cannot respect the wishes of someone else.

No contact is also to heal and permanently put a situation behind you, not to manipulate another person into missing you. It’s using reverse psychology and it’s not going to be received well by most people who have a healthy sense of self-esteem. I’d accept her choices and move on for good. Stop trying to change her and manipulating this so she wants to be with you. If she’s not interested in pursuing this further, only respect what she’s saying. Go no contact to help yourself out this behind you for good.

 

I'm also a believer in the idea you shouldn't have to change people to make it work between the two of you. When I say save her, I mean her heart. At this present moment she has the freedom to choose whatever it is that she wants to do. I have no control over that, our core values aligned so its not that I want to change her fundamentally. However as grown up we know that not every experience needs to be had especially if its unhealthy on the surface. That in an anxious-avoidant trap, is a constant push and pull. One id rather she didn't have to go through, so I just meant save her from the inevitable heartbreak there. 

She still doesnt have a job, and her bills are going to begin to pile up. She asked for the laptop when she broke NC on the 5th, to update her resume. I want her to be a self sustaining adult, and was willing to be patient and work with her to get there. I guess fairy tales should be reserved for storybooks.

Ive continued NC, and have been keeping myself busy with extra made up tasks. Based on your thoughtful responses, I've begun to believe I messed up royally and she's not coming back. Right now I have to try and process everything that happened in 2022, and pursue my own happiness in 2023. 

[CarterS]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:24 PM, Lotsgoingon said:

You are at least as codependent as she is, perhaps more so. 

Only someone with really poor boundaries would get lost in the delusion that he could direct someone else's life. And hey, why do you want to be with someone whose life you can direct? Why not get a pet for that? Maybe you want children in the future---save your wisdom and guidance for that.

And you guys have sex while you're friends. That's a guaranteed loser situation. Guaranteed. 

Bottom line: both of you are dysfunctionally entangled with each other to no good end. And any one who dates either one of you will run into that dysfunctional entanglement. Basically what happens between you guys could be summarized in a few sentences. Somehow you are getting lost in irrelevant detail and every little back and forth and as a result you are obscuring your vision, your clarity. 

Best for you to leave all rescue fantasies, all the white knight fantasies back in junior high school where they belong. 

I believe I also had codependency issues in regards to it had been her in the last 4 years. So naturally id always want her to be around. Her codependency I believe came from her not being confident enough in herself to step into her own. I've learn you can't control people, I didn't grow up with any pets. People will do things on their own time, patience is what I sorrily lacked in that relationship. 

Well James is calling her just his friends and they're having sex as well, I agree with you it is a loser situation. So it has to be at least understandable as to why im trying to clear up her blurred vision. 

Agreed. Fantasies are nothing more than that. Sometimes people choose the less beaten path, but it was always their choice to do so. As ive stayed true to NC, im trying to make peace with her choice to hurt herself, while focusing on myself. Trying to pack up and put all this away.

Edited January 11, 2023 by CarterS

[CarterS]

On 1/10/2023 at 6:50 AM, JTSW said:

Ok, so I read the whole thing too.

You liked to portray yourself as her hero and savour when in fact you were the opposite.

You kept inserting yourself into her life and messing with her head.

She tried to make something of her life but your continual presence dragged her back.

You were never good for her OP.

You were what stopped her from moving forward.

You clearly don't like her being with other men and subconsciously inserted yourself in her life to causing confusion.

You need to let her go.

She needs to learn to navigate through life without you in her doorway and you've never given her this chance.

I hate that you thought of her as this, like you always knew you could get what you wanted out of her if you couldn't get it elsewhere.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

I think I was so busy analyzing the trap she's in with him that I couldn't can't see that Im in that exact same trap with her. I see all of the ways she's not relationship material, and isn't a self-reliant, functioning adult and yet Im trying to "love" her through it all. Im doing the same thing she is - chasing after someone you should never have been with. She's trying to be his therapist to gain his love when he's not interested in her, and Im trying to be her surrogate dad to gain her love when she's not interested in me. We're both trapped here, and we both refuse to move on for good. Im the same person as her except I can hold down a steady job and pay my own bills.

[glows]

7 hours ago, CarterS said:

I'm also a believer in the idea you shouldn't have to change people to make it work between the two of you. When I say save her, I mean her heart. At this present moment she has the freedom to choose whatever it is that she wants to do. I have no control over that, our core values aligned so its not that I want to change her fundamentally. However as grown up we know that not every experience needs to be had especially if its unhealthy on the surface. That in an anxious-avoidant trap, is a constant push and pull. One id rather she didn't have to go through, so I just meant save her from the inevitable heartbreak there. 

She still doesnt have a job, and her bills are going to begin to pile up. She asked for the laptop when she broke NC on the 5th, to update her resume. I want her to be a self sustaining adult, and was willing to be patient and work with her to get there. I guess fairy tales should be reserved for storybooks.

Ive continued NC, and have been keeping myself busy with extra made up tasks. Based on your thoughtful responses, I've begun to believe I messed up royally and she's not coming back. Right now I have to try and process everything that happened in 2022, and pursue my own happiness in 2023. 

There’s nothing actually tying you to her except the idea of saving her heart which in itself is crippling as it assumes the other person can’t take care of his or herself. And she’s going through it dating James whether you may agree with it or not. I think someone who respects another person knows to back off instead of pushing their opinions like this. It’s not any of your business in reality who she chooses to date.

I agree with you and you hit the nail on the head that no one should have to change and absolutely not to this extent in order to be with you. 

She’ll figure it out eventually on her own - getting a job, holding down a job, paying her bills, surviving a broken heart and becoming smarter. More risks are at stake instead of being a constant disappointment to you. Maybe she needs to use food stamps, frequent dollar marts or downsize her apartment or get a cheaper living situation and recognize what she has to do in life and that a person doesn’t get very far for long schmoozing off others or behaving in a self-entitled way. Next time she needs something from you like a resume, she’s going to have to learn what back ups mean, look at taking better care of herself and stop depending on you to bail her out. 

You’ve felt sorry for her or wanted to change her for too long. Date responsible, independent, healthy and available women. Count this as a goal and look at joining some interest or hobby groups or organizations in your area. Stay mentally fit and healthy and don’t go back to old ways. You are half of the problem and your ONLY concern. She is not your concern at all. Here’s to 2023 and happy new year by the way.