Is this something worth breaking up for?

[Lorenza]

I´m having some serious doubts about my new relationship. We recently made it official and almost immediately ran into a problem that has left me hurt and confused.
So I´m going to visit him in a couple of days and stay over for a week and the idea was that at the end of the week I would meet his son for a short introduction at a café. The boyfriend has hyped our meeting up a lot, expressing constantly how happy he is about it and how it will be a step towards a future together, meaning I could stay with him longer when I come to visit (we are long distance, but see each other fairly often) and then living together eventually. At the moment I can´t stay for too long because he has his son every other week and we haven´t met yet/have to take it gradually to not burden the boy with a stranger suddenly being at his home and sleeping with his dad. He said so many beautiful things about me meeting his son and his son was also excited and really positive about meeting me. He has seen my pictures and heard a couple of voice messages. 

Yesterday in the morning my boyfriend was still all happy and excited. But then some hours later he had a conversation with his ex (who is also dating someone new and has recently introduced him to their son) and she has completely freaked out about me meeting him. She pretty much tried to forbid it and has spent an entire hour talking about how I am way too new to be introduced to the son, came up with some recent times the son was feeling sad and unsure about his dad being abroad visiting me (apparently the son wasn´t sure if dad is coming back, although I am sure this was an exaggeration because he gave the son a video call and said that they will see each other soon), threatened to take the son away etc etc. The ex has me blocked on social media, although we never had any sort of contact. 

So my boyfriend does a complete 180 on me after the conversation. Suddenly it´s too early for us to meet, he´s apparently a shitty dad to his son for being abroad visiting me too often and has to do better - that sort of thing. He suffers from some kind of irrational sense of guilt when it comes to his son and any negative emotion is a reflection of him being a bad dad. Ex, who was abusive towards him their whole relationship, fuels it with passion and constantly reminds him of his barely existent shortcomings without minding her own. He´s an incredible dad by the way. I have never seen a dad so devoted to his son, so it´s a complete manipulation. 

In any case, I myself do not deal well with sudden changes in behavior in a romantic relationship. He was selling me this beautiful idea of slowly getting to knowing his son and our possible future together. Then one call with an ex and he took it all away. To say he was apologetic is an underestimation - he did apologize profusely and promised to someday introduce us, but I still felt backstabbed and stupid. I understand that there might be truth to it being too early, but it was dealt with in such a backstabbing way in my opinion. His opinion changed completely in a matter of hours and after talking to the explosive ex, so I feel like she will always have a way to guilt trip and manipulate him by appealing to his fatherly guilt. 

He did later try to stand up to her and they talked more (they spent probably 2 hours in total just talking about the son and their reactions etc - stuff that in my opinion are not appropriate to talk to your ex about) and he insisted on doing things on his own timeline in regards to his son. But at the end I felt like I don´t want to meet the boy anymore because I now feel unsafe and unstable in this relationship. He is a very good guy, very sensitive, emotionally available otherwise and so caring. He asked for another chance and promised to go to counseling for his irrational guilt in regards to his son. Do you think there is a point for us to continue? I think the magic of our relationship that we experienced so far (and it did indeed feel a bit magical) is a bit lost now... And I feel like the ex can enter at anytime and convince that anything he does for me is hurting his child and he will just flip on me. What do I do? 

 

[Alpacalia]

I'm sure it's disappointing for you. Do you feel she is being deliberately obstructive?

Keep your chin up. When your new partner has children from a previous relationship, it can take some time to adjust.

In the meantime, I would recommend that you let him know that you are very much interested in meeting his son, and that you hope to have the opportunity to meet him in the near future. That is all I would suggest doing for now.

50 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

Yesterday in the morning my boyfriend was still all happy and excited. But then some hours later he had a conversation with his ex (who is also dating someone new and has recently introduced him to their son) and she has completely freaked out about me meeting him.

Hopefully your boyfriend will not continue to let his ex "dictate" to him when you see his son for the first time.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Alpacalia

[basil67]

This isn't about manipulation and fatherly guilt - his ex is being sensible and reminding him about slowing down when it comes to you meeting the child.  

Thing is with new partners meeting kids, the kids can get attached and then the relationship ends and the child gets hurt and confused.   Let's face it, it's a new relationship, you're only just official and now you're questioning whether or not to stay with him because there's been a disagreement/change of plans.   This is EXACTLY why there's an unwritten rule about taking time to meet the son.  

I think your boyfriend is so excited about you that he got carried away and didn't stop to think about the fallout should things not work out.   He made a mistake and his ex only stepped in because her child is the one would would be hurt. 

There's no reason to believe that if your partner continues to parent in a sensible way and introduce you at an appropriate time that she will be a problem for you. 

[BaileyB]

How long have you been dating this man?

I too think it’s too soon if you have just become official. I think it’s too soon particularly because you are long distance and you will be staying over with this man and his son. I would have a problem with that too. 

41 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

He suffers from some kind of irrational sense of guilt when it comes to his son and any negative emotion is a reflection of him being a bad dad.

Not necessarily irrational, common I would think for most parents. It’s hard to balance your own life and being a parent when you are divorced - and then, there is the guilt of the actual divorce. A lot of people parent out of guilt after divorce. If you don’t like their dynamic, you had beat not get too involved here. 

[JTSW]

It's not his fault so please don't blame him. 

He had been manipulated, lied to and abused by her for so long that she made him genuinely believe that he is bad dad.

He is not.

You really just need to be supportive and understanding for him.

Nor focus on negative things about him.

50 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

He´s an incredible dad by the way. I have never seen a dad so devoted to his son

Tell him this and make him believe it.

Tell him that he needs to put his ex on an info diet and not disclose his intentions and private life to her.

Tell him she cannot dictate how he lives his life and with whom he shares his life.

50 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

But at the end I felt like I don´t want to meet the boy anymore because I now feel unsafe and unstable in this relationship.

This is just petty and unreasonable in my opinion.

He just needs to learn to stand up for himself and forget her BS. 

He's a good dad and her threats to take the kid away from him is also BS. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by JTSW

[Lorenza]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

This isn't about manipulation and fatherly guilt - his ex is being sensible and reminding him about slowing down when it comes to you meeting the child.  

Thing is with new partners meeting kids, the kids can get attached and then the relationship ends and the child gets hurt and confused.   Let's face it, it's a new relationship, you're only just official and now you're questioning whether or not to stay with him because there's been a disagreement/change of plans.   This is EXACTLY why there's an unwritten rule about taking time to meet the son.  

I think your boyfriend is so excited about you that he got carried away and didn't stop to think about the fallout should things not work out.   He made a mistake and his ex only stepped in because her child is the one would would be hurt. 

There's no reason to believe that if your partner continues to parent in a sensible way and introduce you at an appropriate time that she will be a problem for you. 

She has introduced her own new partner to their son even though her relationship is fairly new as well, exploded at him and threatened to take the son away (empty threats, she legally cannot and there is not even the smallest ground for it). I can guarantee me being much younger and a good looking lady is at play here and her son being excited about me adds fuel to the fire. She´s trying to come up with scenarios where my boyfriend has wronged the child by going abroad to see me, even though it happened on the days she was supposed to have him. So there is a lot of personal feelings here. But the worst is my boyfriend still feels the need to please her even though she was abusive in their relationship. 

[JTSW]

3 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

She has introduced her own new partner to their son even though her relationship is fairly new as well, exploded at him and threatened to take the son away (empty threats, she legally cannot and there is not even the smallest ground for it). I can guarantee me being much younger and a good looking lady is at play here and her son being excited about me adds fuel to the fire. She´s trying to come up with scenarios where my boyfriend has wronged the child by going abroad to see me, even though it happened on the days she was supposed to have him. So there is a lot of personal feelings here. But the worst is my boyfriend still feels the need to please her even though she was abusive in their relationship. 

I agree that there is jealousy on her part at play here.

This is why she conjures up a load of BS.

He doesn't need to please her, he has his rights as a father and she can't do s*** about it.

He needs to go to therapy to understand this.

Edited January 17, 2023 by JTSW

[Lorenza]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

How long have you been dating this man?

I too think it’s too soon if you have just become official. I think it’s too soon particularly because you are long distance and you will be staying over with this man and his son. I would have a problem with that too. 

Not necessarily irrational, common I would think for most parents. It’s hard to balance your own life and being a parent when you are divorced - and then, there is the guilt of the actual divorce. A lot of people parent out of guilt after divorce. If you don’t like their dynamic, you had beat not get too involved here. 

But it´s truly extreme in his case. He can for example not handle his 5 year old having any negative emotions and takes it as a failure. Once his son said something harsh in a tantrum over clothes and my boyfriend was upset for hours. 

It might be that it´s too soon, but the son is fully aware about me and it´s a bit weird to be hiding me from him. I would of course not be sleeping at their place in the beginning, the plan was me walking home from preschool together with them and having some cake at the café once in a while, for several months at least, and then gradually starting to stay over.  

[JTSW]

Honestly OP, your plans together are all very sensible.

Please suggest therapy for him.

She has manipulated him so badly he needs to snap out of it.

[Alpacalia]

8 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

She has introduced her own new partner to their son even though her relationship is fairly new as well, exploded at him and threatened to take the son away (empty threats, she legally cannot and there is not even the smallest ground for it). I can guarantee me being much younger and a good looking lady is at play here and her son being excited about me adds fuel to the fire. She´s trying to come up with scenarios where my boyfriend has wronged the child by going abroad to see me, even though it happened on the days she was supposed to have him. So there is a lot of personal feelings here. But the worst is my boyfriend still feels the need to please her even though she was abusive in their relationship. 

Let him handle her.

It's not about you and her, this is about making the introduction as seamless and pain-free for their son.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Lorenza]

9 minutes ago, JTSW said:

It's not his fault so please don't blame him. 

He had been manipulated, lied to and abused by her for so long that she made him genuinely believe that he is bad dad.

He is not.

You really just need to be supportive and understanding for him.

Nor focus on negative things about him.

Tell him this and make him believe it.

Tell him that he needs to put his ex on an info diet and not disclose his intentions and private life to her.

Tell him she cannot dictate how he lives his life and with whom he shares his life.

This is just petty and unreasonable in my opinion.

He just needs to learn to stand up for himself and forget her BS. 

He's a good dad and her threats to take the kid away from him is also BS. 

I´m trying to tell him that, but it´s been hard. I think I´ve been quite supportive, but he´s underestimating himself so much. The son has his full attention the whole time he´s with his dad. He cooks for him, takes him out to eat, plays and paints with him, reads him books, goes to the swimming pool. Like true quality time each dad-week. And he talks to his son and listens to him. 

I do think that he as a dad has a right to decide when he wants to introduce a new partner without the mom having a say. They do a complete 50/50 on raising him with the dad paying for more stuff. 

[Lorenza]

Just now, Alpacalia said:

Let him handle her.

This isn't about you and her, this is about their son.

Yes, I will not interfere and I´m not intending on having any contact. But she does seem to deliberately target me. His family apparently doesn´t have any soft feelings for her. 

[Mrin]

How long have you two been dating?

[Lorenza]

2 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Honestly OP, your plans together are all very sensible.

Please suggest therapy for him.

She has manipulated him so badly he needs to snap out of it.

Yes, therapy is definitely needed in this case! He is extremely apologetic and has contacted a private therapist today 

[Lorenza]

2 minutes ago, Mrin said:

How long have you two been dating?

4 months, but we´ve known each other for longer

[JTSW]

4 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

Yes, therapy is definitely needed in this case! He is extremely apologetic and has contacted a private therapist today 

This is a good step in the right direction.

[Alpacalia]

8 minutes ago, Lorenza said:

Yes, I will not interfere and I´m not intending on having any contact. But she does seem to deliberately target me. His family apparently doesn´t have any soft feelings for her. 

Good call.

Table it for now.

If you fall into the trap of going back and forth with her then you’ll end up just like her - miserable.

Try to rise above all this and focus on your relationship. If he takes her bait, he is not fully ready to be in another relationship himself. If this is the case, you allow yourself to become a victim of her as well.

[Ami1uwant]

How old is the child?

[Lorenza]

5 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said:

How old is the child?

He´s 5! 

[PotatoHead]

I would agree with holding off for a bit, don't put any extra pressure on him about speeding things up with meeting his kid.  It sounds like he needs to learn how to handle his ex better.  I've been in a similar situation with my ex, who was also abusive and tried to maintain control over me and the kids even after the divorce.  The truth is, he has to learn that he doesn't answer to her anymore.  Yes, certain agreements need to be made when it comes to coparenting, but if they have equal custody then his judgement as the father needs to be trusted.  As long as he isn't putting them in any kind of danger, how she feels about it is irrelevant.  He has every right to ignore his ex, and at some point will need to start exercising that right so she learns that she is not his boss.

[glows]

His ex will always be in their lives (your partner and his son’s). You’d best stop framing this as if she’s attacking you or out to get you if you choose to continue this relationship. 

Give it a month or two months max and if it’s not working out, cut your losses. Be very clear with yourself about what type of dynamic you’re looking for in a relationship. Dating an older man with a child from a previous relationship might not be for you. He might not be for you if he’s too new out of his separation from his ex or divorce. Are you his first relationship since the break up from his ex? 

Also keep in mind you’re choosing the most convoluted and complicated method of dating by choosing long distance where you are not seeing firsthand how your partner lives on a daily basis or seeing how he interacts with others in his life. It doesn’t matter if your visits are week-long. It’s never the same as dating someone locally and knowing one another bit by bit in smaller chunks. 

All those conversations building you up to meet his son were in a vacuum. You relied heavily on his word without ever meeting his ex first or being introduced to her. In my opinion the three of you should have met long before any talks about meeting the son if you’re jumping to stay overs and sleep overs each time you see the father. It’s not the same as you both dating locally and you going home to your home each night for example. 

I’d caution you on the long distance factor and building expectations based only on what he says or tells you. It’s a very warped kind of dating but not impossible so tread with caution.

Edited January 17, 2023 by glows

[CollinW]

If anything this whole story says more about you than the boyfriend. 

Kids are a sensitive topic for any parent and their interest comes first even if it conflicts with your own agenda. That's means that things may change at a dime and you need to be secure with yourself enough to not take it personally. 

To the majority of sane minded adults, two months probably is too early to meet the kids and I think you know that. So regardless of how it came about, their discussion if anything resulted in a rational conclusion and that's regardless of what's going on with the ex and her new boyfriend. Two wrongs don't make a right. 

The fact that you're making this about you and a reflection of your relationship speaks to your insecurity and possibly immaturity. He already feels guilt regarding his son so now you're trying to make him feel guilty regarding you also.

I don't think you're equipped to handle a relationship with a father and there is nothing wrong with that. Do him a favor and end things. 

[BaileyB]

I’d be cautious here OP and keep your expectations low. The child’s mother is going to be a part of their lives forever. What you are seeing re: her behavior and his ability to set boundaries and cope with life is concerning. I would really be questioning whether I wanted to get involved in this dynamic - spoken from experience, it’s not easy even at the best of times. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

I don't have kidsd but if I were dating someone with them I would realize that as long as they were minors they come first in his life.  If the child's mother thought it was too soon to meet me, so be it, it's their child and their decision.  I can't believe that you can't spend the night at his house.  Is there not a time when his child is not with him that you can stay over?  If so, just work around that.  5 years old is a baby to me and if I were a mom I'd need time to adjust to a new woman in my baby's life.  This is why when I was single I didn't date men who had kids.  Maybe this guy isn't for you because there will be certain sacrifices having to be made when kids are involved.

[smackie9]

I agree to just let this go and let the dust settle.