feels like our friendship is gone

[snickerdoodle]

I've been married for almost 4 years. We initially started off as friends and had a lot of fun together. But now, especially since we moved to a different state this summer, it seems like our marriage is more of a business partnership/roommate situation than anything. We've had issues in the past that we've worked through, but it's gotten to a point now where I wonder what it's going to take for us to feel like a couple again.

 

We moved here because of my job and we were really excited - we hated the last place we lived in and we both love it here. I'm the main breadwinner, I've already completed my education and have been working on my career for a few years now. He, on the other hand, is still in college part-time and he has an entry-level retail job. Due to the demands of my job, I simply have not had time to make friends here like he has. Due to his job, he's exposed to a lot more people than I am, which is why I think he has more friends. He's also a lot more outgoing than I am. His group, some guys from his work, are the ones that he spends his free time with. That's fine except for one thing.

 

We basically function as roommates with a joint checking account at this point. We aren't really affectionate - when one of us comes home it's a hug and a quick kiss. We have weekly "intimate times", but that's about it. Our schedules don't always mesh, so on the nights we are home together, we really don't spend quality time together - he's playing on the internet, or we're watching football, or I'm playing fetch with the dog while he's watching a movie, whatever. On the once-monthly evening when we do manage to go out together, it's always a movie and a stop at a drive-through restaurant. When he goes out with his friends (which is usually twice a week), they watch sports at a bar, go to hear different bands play - basically they do all the things that he and I *used to do before we got married*. I've told him this, that I miss doing those things with him, and he just says he likes to do those things with "his boys" - but that he'll take me out sometime too. I'm still waiting on that to happen.

 

By now I'm ready to say "screw it", have fun with my own friends, and not worry about including him - because obviously my husband doesn't see himself doing those fun things with me anymore. It makes me feel bad to know that we're growing apart in a way - I think it's because I've already started my career, and he's still working his college job because he doesn't know what he wants to do - and I don't know if our relationship can handle all of this. Our discussions together are very functional - what's for dinner, can you do the laundry, did you have a good day, and that's about it. The very fiber our relationship was built on - our friendship and ability to have fun together - seems to be gone, and I don't know what else is left other than the fact that I love him (and he says he loves me). From our first talk, I don't think he sees this the same way that I do.

 

Any opinions, thoughts, or whatever are appreciated.

[whichwayisup]

You both HAVE to make the extra effort to spend that quality time together. Make the passion. While doing a load of laundry, take off all your clothes, throw them in the machine - Then call him into the room...I'm sure he won't be expecting you naked - Let alone ready to jump him!

 

Go out more together. Dinnerdates, walks - Cuddle and talk. Make the intimate moments last longer!

 

And, definately tell him that you're starting to feel like a roommate, and not a lover. Let him know how it makes you feel and work together to make it passionate and come alive again!

 

Hope this helps.

[snickerdoodle]

That's true. I actually never thought about passion - it's been a while since we've had any of that, I must have forgotten it existed.

 

I do plan on talking to him again. I'm just not sure how I'm going to phrase it without making it sound like I'm whining or like I don't want him to go out with his own friends anymore.

 

I'm thinking about asking him to plan an evening out for both of us - maybe if I pose it as a challenge (as in "hey, it would be fun if you could find something cool for us to do next Friday night; I'd like to do something a little different")....then maybe he'll respond to it. Then it would just be a matter of incorporating the other things you mentioned on a more regular basis.

[whichwayisup]

Just tell him you really miss the closeness and that you really want to make love more often. It doesn't have to come off as whiney or nitpicky either. Don't accuse him of anything - Or blame yourself either. Maybe just say, daily life seems to be getting the way and I feel like we're not as close as we used to be and I want that intimacy back. And tell him you love him.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm thinking about asking him to plan an evening out for both of us - maybe if I pose it as a challenge (as in "hey, it would be fun if you could find something cool for us to do next Friday night; I'd like to do something a little different")....then maybe he'll respond to it.

 

Why wouldn't you plan the date?

 

Guys need romance too. They like to be swept off their feet sometimes by a romantic gesture.....and for all the same reasons that women like it. When your partner goes to all the trouble to plan an event that's just for you....it proves they're thinking about you. It proves that they're interested in pleasing you.

 

Your husband seems just fine with the status quo. It's you who are wanting to initiate changes, so it's incumbent upon you to implement them.

 

Here's a recent thread on Emotional Needs: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t73746/

Note the post by Yikes. While he makes mention of how important it is for a woman to verbally express her wishes clearly and concisely, he goes further to say, "We also need to feel loved and needed".

 

This suggests to me that if you were to take the heat out of what would be otherwise considered a complaint, by invoking a loving ACTION, you'll be alot more successful. You'll help him feel loved and needed.

 

Men are weird about complaints, generally speaking. On the one hand, they want to "fix" whatever's wrong, but on the other....they always seem to take it directly 'on the ego' when we express some kind of disappointment with a particular behavior. As if it were the man himself we objected to rather than the "behavior" of spending all his free time with his friends.

 

It gets sticky. But if you are showing him that he's important to you, then he's more likely to see the correlation between actions and words. He'll be able to see that you're putting your money where your mouth is.

[snickerdoodle]

Basically I would like him to plan the date because it feels like all the effort in livening up the relationship (since all this started) has been done by me.

 

It's not that he thinks things are great. When we talked the first time he said he also feels that things have changed; we talked about how to try and start changing that and he said he would try to include me in some of the things that we used to enjoy together. But a couple of months have passed, and although I have been actively trying to do things for him and searching for different options on how to get us going in a better direction, it honestly seems like either 1) he didn't mean what he said and he does think everything is fine or 2) he doesn't want to make an effort on his own, as I have been trying to do. I've made him special dinners, tried to initiate sex a few times (there's only so many times I can be rejected without thinking there's something wrong with me), sent him little emails to let him know I'm thinking about him...with nothing from him. I know he's not cheating, that's not something I'd ever think. But I do know him well enough to know that it's complacency on his part. When he gets bored with something, it takes an act of God to get him interested again (which is the current situation he's facing with college). I guess I'm just worried that he's starting to feel that way about us, and since he isn't trying, I've got to figure out some good ways of getting his attention - and getting him to acknowledge that I'm not happy with the way things are now.

 

I plan on talking to him about all of this tomorrow, I'm sure I can phrase it in a way that won't sound like an attack.

[Ladyjane14]

I plan on talking to him about all of this tomorrow, I'm sure I can phrase it in a way that won't sound like an attack.

 

It'll help if you have your hand down his pants while you're talkin'.... Thass all I'm sayin'

 

The male of the species is NOT the same as the female. What's important to you in the way of ENs is not necessarily going to be important to him. If you want more of his time, more of his attention, and more sex....speak to him in his language.

 

If you're not sure what his particular language is...try The Five Love Languages by Chapman, or His Needs / Her Needs by Harley.

 

He's not very likely to 'rise to the occasion'....just because you tell him to. Not without giving you attitude about it anyhow. And it's NOT because he doesn't want to please you, it's just that he doesn't think like you do.

 

It's obvious that you two need to talk, but you have a certain amount of control over the where and when.

 

A mysterious invitation, requesting his company on such-an-such date and time, followed by dinner and a live concert, copious amounts of champagne, topped off with a nice overnight at a hotel....well, he'll be listening to you when you tell him he's important, and that you want to be closer to him.

 

And if he's NOT important to you, enough so that you'd go the extra mile....why the heck do you want to spend more time with him anyway?

[snickerdoodle]

Thanks for the book recommendations. I will definitely check them out!

[snickerdoodle]

He was away most of last week and when he came back, he told me he didn't want to be married anymore. He said that we got married too fast (we'd known each other for a couple of years but only dated a few months). He says he didn't know what he was getting into when we tied the knot. He said part of the reason he married me is - get this - because he was in a rut with his previosu situation and wanted to move across the country to live with me. Apparently he saw my life, 2000 miles away from where we grew up, as glamorous and exciting, and he wanted to be a part of that. Four years later he's starting to think that this marriage thing isn't what he signed up for. Then I was informed that he doesn't think he should have to work and finish his degree at the same time. He apparently would rather take out student loans, live off those, and sleep in his car instead of continuing to live here - where my job pays for 95% of everything - and working a few days a week to help out. I was so hurt and pissed off I didn't know what to say. I just said I didn't think anyone really knows what they're going into with marriage until they're in it, and that I had no idea he felt that way. I also said that I thought we could overcome whatever problems we had but only if he was willing to stick it out and try instead of running away.

 

He also admitted, much later in the conversation, that the friends he hung out with while he was gone had a lot to do with the way he felt. They are all divorced and apparently kept on his case about leaving me so they could all hang out like they did in the good old single days. Like you can ever go back in time and have everything be the same?! Why in the hell he thought they had any kind of point (besides all of their bad and bitter experiences with marriage) is beyond me. It feels like I'm trying to reason with a high schooler.

 

I want to try counseling but he doesn't think it will help. He agreed to stick around and try to work things out on our own, but I don't know how much faith I have in that happening. If I can't get him to go to counseling I honestly give this about 6 months before it becomes a giant train wreck.

[Thinkalot]

oh dear- i am so sorry to hear of that development. It does sound like you may have an uphill battle ahead of you, considering his unwillingness to see a counsellor or take concrete steps to change things....if he is willing to make changes though, and you are too, then there is a chance your marriage can survive this.

It sounds like you are more mature than he is, by a long way- that you are at different stages in your life, and that perhaps he truly did not think through his decision to marry you fully- which must be very hurtful to you. He probably did feel he was doing the right thing at the time though of course.

 

Perhaps you could talk together, and make a list of things you think would help bring the marriage back on track..changes you can make, positive things you can each do to help. Give it a go...fingers crossed.

[snickerdoodle]

You are right on for the most part. I know that he loves me but it hurt to hear that he married me partly so he could have his cross-country move financed. It also hurt to hear that his friends told him he should think about leaving so he could be with them - and that he saw any merit to this.

 

We are definitely at different life points and maturity levels. We got married when I was 21 and he was 22. We were young but by no means naive or stupid. Four years later I'm done with college and doing well in my career, while he is still at the same level of job and still floundering in college (he's been attending on and off this whole time) while trying to figure out what he wants to do (in terms of his career). It's frustrating to me but I've always been supportive when he's changed his major or taken a semester off.

 

We did talk about some specific things we would like to work on or change, which we felt was a step in the right direction. At one time we were on the same maturity level - in some areas we are still equal, but in the majority I'm way past him (it even seems as though he's regressed, if that's possible). I don't know what in the world to do about that issue. It's things like this that make me think we need some outside help in the form of counseling. If I can't get him to go I might need to see someone on my own.

[whichwayisup]

He also admitted, much later in the conversation, that the friends he hung out with while he was gone had a lot to do with the way he felt. They are all divorced and apparently kept on his case about leaving me so they could all hang out like they did in the good old single days. Like you can ever go back in time and have everything be the same?! Why in the hell he thought they had any kind of point (besides all of their bad and bitter experiences with marriage) is beyond me. It feels like I'm trying to reason with a high schooler.

 

Sure, well if he thinks being single is fun after being married, he's an idiot. To give up what you two have just so he can hang out with his friends because they're all divorced?? Real nice.....

 

Maybe his mentality level is still back in highschool, like he never grew up or something. His attitude and excuse is really lame and hurtful too. Schmuck.

 

I want to try counseling but he doesn't think it will help. He agreed to stick around and try to work things out on our own, but I don't know how much faith I have in that happening. If I can't get him to go to counseling I honestly give this about 6 months before it becomes a giant train wreck.

That is a good idea, go you on your own even if he doesn't want to go, though he should if he really wants to make the marriage work. I just hope his mind isn't made up already and isn't wasting your time. It's sad, once one person decides it's over there isn't much you can do to change their mind.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope he works his tail off to better the marriage and head to counselling with you. Together you both can move past this and have a good life.

 

I re-read your post again just now and it does seem you both are in two different places in life. I'm wondering if he's feeling inadquate to you and wants to be the one to provide, but can't right now and inside it's killing him. He can't get it together to find his passion and work at something he'll love. Just throwing thoughts out here for you...

 

Sorry this happened and I do hope things get worked out.

[snickerdoodle]

Thanks for the condolences. I want to be hopeful but at the same time I don't want to be hurt any more than necessary. I do believe he feels inadequate, due to my role of family provider, but in all honesty - it's his own fault. He could have been finished with college and been well into his career a long time ago if he hadn't decided to take his sweet time (since I'm paying the bills and all) and switch majors whenever he felt like it. After we had our talk he told me he would start going to school full-time in January and that he would stick with his major until he finished. That was the one of the things I asked of him - because he'll always feel insignificant if he doesn't do it. Even so, he would still be making significantly less than me, but at least he would be doing something he could take pride in and be happy about. Right now he hates his job and is only keeping it for the schedule and seniority.

 

It's pretty much all about him at this point - I'm secure in myself and in my career. I'm thanking God that we never considered having kids. I know I'm strong enough to make it on my own, with our two pups, if I have to. I would like more intimacy and together time, but at the moment those needs have taken a backseat. For him, this seems to be more about acting out and proving that he can still do what he wants to do (i.e. running away to finish school and not wanting to work and contribute to the household income) due to the discontent he feels with how his life has played out thus far. I don't know that there's much I can do about that except wait a little longer and see when/if a 26 year old man decides to grow up. If he's already made up his mind to leave, the least he could do is have the decency to tell me.

[Ladyjane14]

He also admitted, much later in the conversation, that the friends he hung out with while he was gone had a lot to do with the way he felt.

 

I had a similar experience many years ago. My husband and I had only been married for about 5 years, no kids yet. He was transitioning in his job, and working a part-time one with a group of younger, single people.

 

He was having a blast with them, and had become an integral part of their group. There were at least a couple of attractive females in their midst, and poor hubby with NO license to PLAY.

 

And he did ask me very nicely for a divorce one night. We hadn't been fighting or anything. We were, in fact, just coming home from a pleasant dinner out together, just the two of us. So, I knew that he had been thinking about it seriously, and that it wasn't just an angry response to a disagreement.

 

I was just devastated. And even all these years later, it still hurts me to remember it. During the discussion, I remained calm. I reassured him that I loved him, and used logic to refute his more emotional points of contention.

 

He ended up staying with me, his new job came through, and he left the part-time one. He lost touch with the "friends", who had been an influence in his uncertainty. I imagine he probably felt a bit guilty about the whole thing, and thus dumped the lot of them rather quickly.

 

Anyway, I'll never know the exact details of what happened while he was hanging out with these people. I do know that if there hadn't been any females involved....he wouldn't have asked me for a divorce. I came away from our discussion very clear in my intuition regarding that, even though he hadn't specifically voiced it. He WANTED to follow an attraction, and he was forbidden by his marriage vows to do so.

 

The only other thing that I'd like to share with you here is this..... If I had left him at that time, he would have NEVER seen me again. I would not have been available to him in any capacity, not friendship or anything. I would have moved away, and would not have welcomed ANY contact with him whatsoever for the rest of our lives.

 

So in our discussion, I let him know that I loved him and that I had faith in our ability to overcome these attractions that I knew he must be feeling. (He still wouldn't admit that any women were involved, but I treated it as a given.) I ALSO let him know that I would move on completely if I had to, that our separation would be PERMANENT, irrevocable.

 

I think that it's natural for one or both spouses to occasionally wish for a hiatus of the marriage. My husband has had two such occasions. I've had thoughts of it myself in the past, where I would have liked to shake off the bonds of matrimony, live it up for awhile....and then come home again.

 

In terms of feeling hurt, I don't think it helps much to know that this is fairly common. You still feel very abandoned when it happens to YOU. But it is surmountable, and the possibility for bouncing back as strong as ever is there.

 

All that said, this would be a GREAT time to dump his silly behind if you've a notion to. Are you sure you want to keep him? You could always 'grant him his wish' and let him live in his car.

[whichwayisup]

I don't know that there's much I can do about that except wait a little longer and see when/if a 26 year old man decides to grow up.

 

Only you know the answer to that. If you want this marriage to work and you see the potiental - A future with kids, family, etc...Then stick it out and let him ride this thing out. If you're not sure, maybe you two need to separate and see what life is like without eachother. I have no doubt you'll be fine in that sense of taking care of yourself, it's the intimacy and having someone around you'll miss...Companionship and a partner, though it sounds like he's not been much of either!

 

26 going on 16. Early midlife crisis?? Or fear of responsibility and giving up his freedom and fun.

 

I hope he sees what he's about to give up! Wish he would do couples therapy, atleast give it a try. I think he owes that much to you and the marriage.

[sumdude]

Seems like he might still be growing up. I know I wasn't ready for marriage until after 30 myself. Sounds like his 'freinds' are filling his head with ideas but it's his head and he's listening so you can't really blame them. The part I don't get is that if he wants to be out and you're willing to go out with him why he isn't interested in that? hmmm could be the signpost there.

[snickerdoodle]

Just thought I would update. It's a month later, and nothing has changed. He looked into taking classes at the local college but he says that it will be too hard for him to get time off from work to go take them. He doesn't have to work full time, but he says he doesn't want to drop down to part time so he can attend. I said fine - if he's not going to school then he needs to look into getting a better job with his present company. Right now he has a job he dislikes, certainly not what he wants as a career. He's been with them, in the same entry position, for 5 years, so moving up shouldn't be too hard. That's when he told me that he doesn't want to stay with them and that maybe he'll just look for a new job altogether. So he does that for a few weeks and says he didn't find anything that he liked that didn't require a degree.

 

I am going insane here. I'm busting my butt - in a job I don't always care for - to make sure we have everything we need to have a comfortable life. He complains about not wanting to be stuck in his current job forever, but he doesn't want to seriously go out and change it. The whole reason this is an issue is because we agreed (a couple of years ago) that he would get himself into a position to support us so that I could work a little less and attend graduate school. That hasn't happened yet. I'm finding his excuses to be both lame and insulting.

 

I asked if he saw us having kids together. We both wanted them when we got married, but any time I bring up the future, I get shut down. So the truth comes out - He doesn't want them in our current relationship because "there isn't enough love". Well, DUH. He feels a vague yearning to be a father "sometime in the future", but doesn't know exactly when that might be or if it will ever be. So that adds another issue to the mix because I definitely still want kids, and preferably with him. I don't want them right at this second, but if we could be happy and fix our marriage, then definitely in the next 4-5 years. Guess I can forget that one.

 

So after all this month's developments, I've been looking at my options. I feel love for him, but not the kind of love that should be there for a husband. More like a general "I care about him and don't want anything bad to happen to him" feeling. He says his feelings for me are the same. I don't want to be anybody's "trust fund" and have to put my ambitions on hold because of it. By him not showing the motivation to do something with his life that could one day support a family or allow us to have kids.... I feel that this marriage doesn't have much of a place to go. Don't get me wrong, I would gladly work and he could stay home if we had kids, but that's not the case here because he doesn't ever want to be a stay at home dad if we fixed this enough to have them. He still says no to counseling. I've looked at my finances and I'll be more than fine if we split. I'll actually have a lot more than I do now. He, on the other hand, will have a hell of a time paying his rent and keeping his car. I've seen a counselor on my own a few times but she hasn't said anything to me that I didn't already know. So after the holidays I'm probably going to tell him I'd like to separate. If anyone else has been through something similar or has words of advice, all are appreciated. Thanks.

[rble618740]

I'll spare you all of the laborious details, but I have been RIGHT where you are. My husband and I had only been married nine months when we separated. He had spent more of those months unemployed than employed. And...he has a bachelor's degree, MBA and JD. He was spending his evenings out until all hours of the morning with his single friends (which you can do when you don't have to get up to go to work). I was sure that he regretted getting married (and that who he was married to had little to do with it). This was especially hard to tolerate as I shouldered what felt like ALL of the responsibility in our marriage (household, financial, etc.). We separated for 2 1/2 months. Believe it or not, I made significant changes during that time (giving more to our relationship when I didn't feel like I could or should have to) while he sat on the fence about remaining married. It was excruciatingly painful. But...I'm glad I did it. My husband came home, he's been an INCREDIBLE spouse, he been amazingly attentive to our marriage, etc. It's like I am married to a different man. If you want to read my posts from the summer of 2004, you'll see what I was going through. I'll help in any way that I can. My life is an open book if it helps someone else.