What is going on?

[Zetter]

My wife moved out 2 months ago and started dating someone else while we were separated and told me she wanted to file for divorce. I began therapy myself and with the help of some great friends got to a point where I had accepted everything and was comfortable with it. I was completely respectful to her and did nothing to provoke her, and yet she was nothing but nasty to me. We had our issues in our marriage, but nothing I would consider divorce-worthy. Nonetheless, she was adamant about finding a more compatable mate. She gave me the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" crap and I finally was getting healthy...until today. She sent me several hate-emails and called me at work this afternoon to tell me once again how I hurt her and to discuss all of the awful things I had done and how I pushed her away. I took responsibility for my part, and that was all well and good. Then we actually talked about all of the issues in our marriage for the first time without hate and anger (from her end) and it was exactly how it should have been for the last 2 years. I have been told that she has borderline personality disorder, and that our relationship will never be what I want it to be. I guess my point is that today really screwed me up - she actually admitted to caring for me, we talked through things like normal adults, and were supportive of each other. I'm trying to figure out why she called, other than to figure out when to sign divorce papers. I had my mind made up prior to our conversation that this was definitely the right thing to do, and now I'm as confused as ever. She says she's happy, and yet seems to want validation from me that I did some terrible things to her and caused our divorce. Maybe that is all she wanted, but that was a discussion we had 2 months ago. Maybe she's confused, but I know I am. Thoughts?

[Mz. Pixie]

Have you done any research into being borderline?? Who exactly told you that she was??

 

If she is indeed borderline you should run like hell. They are abusive and usually do not change! My mother was borderline and she made my life a living nightmare.

 

Try not to throw around a term like that because a mental illness like that is very hard to pick out, unless you're trained to know what to look for.

[Craig]

I could be wrong but here goes. Don't fall for what is likely her temporary act of being less than nasty to you. If she is looking for you to admit that you are to blame for the divorce she'll just use that against you in the future in a destructive and immature way.

 

The divorce is on, you deserve better than she will provide.

 

Treat her with respect, be polite and stick to the business of getting divorced.

[scobro]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t72678/

 

Wow very similar situation to my wife.Read #1 of the thread I put here and scroll down to #10 also, you will see how similar our ex's are.I am convinced my wife has narcissistic behaviour to have no empathy or consideration to someone she was married to is beyond me.

[Mz. Pixie]

Just because someone has an affair it does not make them a narcassist.

 

More likely its the FOG that the person is in at the time that makes them act they way they do.

[scobro]

Just because someone has an affair it does not make them a narcassist.

 

More likely its the FOG that the person is in at the time that makes them act they way they do.

 

No having an affair doesn't make you a narcissist but people who stay in a marriage and are not in love,people who can jump from one relationship to another imediately with no empathy for the last mate.people who have been married many times,people who have many affairs all of these traits show narcissistic patterns of behaviour.This is not to say full blown narcissism but patterns that are narcissistic.It's all about what is good for them how they feel how they will benefit who cares about my mate or anyone else it's all about what is good for me at the time.It's the grass is always greener mentality with these people.Its a joke anyone who has an affair I don't care who you are is not in a "fog" just is only thinking about themselves period,if you don't have respect for your marriage end it before you jump to the next person.Don't blame your insecurities and lack of respect for your marriage on being in a friggin "fog" thats a cop out.What is a "fog" anyway?just a way to justify a lack of morals and not own up to your situation.

[Mz. Pixie]

Sco-

 

How long were you married may I ask?? It seems to me a short period of time compared to how long some people who come here were married. I myself was married 13 years, which is a long time considering my age.

 

A "fog" is the situation that results when someone is in an affair. It's a state of mind, somewhat like a drug that's brought on by the affair. Rush of adrenaline etc. It's a actual state of mind according to marriage counselors- going by what I've read and the posts I've reviewed on this site as well as others.

 

Happy people do NOT have affairs. It's usually a result of needs not being met inside the marital relationship. I say usually because it does seem to me that your wife has some issues- because she's done this not once but three times at her age. It could be that she's a narcassist but that would be up to a actual doctor to give that clarification.

 

The grass is always greener mentality is not what led to my affair, it was emotional starvation. Now, I fully admit that I should have left my marriage before I cheated, but when the cheating happened I wasn't exactly TRYING to cheat. There are lots of stories on this forum where I have posted my story so I'll not go into the drawn out version for you.

 

What I try to say on this site is that many times, husbands and wives do not try to meet each others needs. I know in my case it was my husband not trying to meet mine but often times the woman is at fault too. I've fully accepted responsibility for what I did that ended the marriage. I'm certainly not trying to justify what I did, because I don't feel the need to do that but people are not perfect and they sometimes make mistakes. I would venture to say the majority of the time, the cheating just happens, the people regret it and they are ashamed, embarrassed and just want to forget the whole thing.

 

I take huge offense to your posting that people who have affairs don't have morals. That in my case was absolutely not true. At the time what I did was selfish yes and the action itself was immoral but just because I made one mistake it does not make me fall into the "having no morals" category. I could get into lots of little things here about how if you are without sin you can cast the first stone but I won't go there.

 

You have alot of anger and at this time you are not looking to what you might have contributed to the downfall of your marriage, if anything. At some point after your anger has cooled you may be able to say that you had some fault in the issue. For instance, my husband now? His exwife cheated on him for a long time before she left him and she ended up pregnant by the OM before their divorce was final. He went to marriage counseling by himself and worked on his issues and believe me, he fully admitted that he did things that caused her to react the way she did which eventually led to the affair. He faulted himself at 30% and her at 70% because she cheated.

 

I post from my own past perspective in the hopes that I can help some men out there that are struggling with their wives leaving them. I can only say that I've been told many times that my posts are helpful. I post completely from the heart and I try to be truthful, even if its what someone doesn't want to hear. You can somewhat listen to me and dismiss my statements or you can listen somewhat and learn a little something about the other side of the coin. That's completely your choice.

[basscatcher]

people who stay in a marriage and are not in love, people who can jump from one relationship to another imediately with no empathy for the last mate, people who have been married many times, people who have many affairs all of these traits show narcissistic patterns of behaviour.

 

This is not Narcissm... These are people who are not happy with themselves. These are people who don't have the skills to cope with stress, hurt, and have difficulty finding answers and support they need to grow and make healthy decisions. We are not born with instuction manuals therefore Psycholgists have studied human nature and have discovered patterns in people. Those patterns result from a lack of nowledge and guidance. The majority of the time people don't do these things out of selfish uncaring reasons.. They do it because they are confused, they are emotionally high strung as if they are on heavy drugs. When you are that messed up in your mind and in your feelings you can't make good judgements..

 

This is not to say full blown narcissism but patterns that are narcissistic.It's all about what is good for them how they feel how they will benefit who cares about my mate or anyone else it's all about what is good for me at the time.It's the grass is always greener mentality with these people.Its a joke anyone who has an affair I don't care who you are is not in a "fog" just is only thinking about themselves period,if you don't have respect for your marriage end it before you jump to the next person.

 

This again is not Narcisism.... This is closer to Borderline Personality Disorder.. And again there is much more to Borderline Personality Disorder then what you listed..

Again what you are describing is persons who are very confused and emotionally hyper sensitive.. Unless you have been in this state you cannot understand it.. It is a FOG literally.

 

 

Don't blame your insecurities and lack of respect for your marriage on being in a friggin "fog" thats a cop out.What is a "fog" anyway?just a way to justify a lack of morals and not own up to your situation.

 

You definetly need counceling because your understanding of the cheater is so out of balance. You are full of rage and hurt you can't see on both sides of the fence..

 

I have years of counceling from Priests, Pastors, Councelors, Psychiatrists, Psychologists, medical professionals, and social workers... I have also studied some Psychology to understand relationships and why people do the things they do and how they end up in the situations they get in..

 

Most of it is a lack of knowledge of how to cope and work through lifes struggles.. Our parents and society didn't teach us the necessary skills..

 

You don't seem to have a clue what it is like to feel weak, unwanted, unloved, insecure, degraded, abused, forced, lost, and several other negatives in a relationship...

 

Women tend to feel emotions and confusion much more then Men..... We generally can be emotionally manipulated and without realizing what is happening we find ourselves in a intimate situation that should not have happened. When women is not feeling her emotions being met in her relationship she is very vulnerable to the attention and possibly the affections of another man before she even consiously realizes what is happening..

 

I could really make this post long but I would suggest you start to do some research about human behavior and read about infidelity and why it happens. Also why relationships have problems and dont' always work...

[scobro]

sorry I am not trying to offend you but this is what I cannot understand maybe you can shed some light on this:

 

Happy people do NOT have affairs.

So when you(in general not yourself) become unhappy why not talk to your partner and communicate what is wrong that would be the logical common sense thing to do lay it all on the table.

 

It's usually a result of needs not being met inside the marital relationship.

So why not communicate the needs to your partner?

 

it was emotional starvation.

I would assume you talked to your husband and he just refused over time to give you that emotional need but would that not come up in conversation before the 13 year mark more than once?Would it not be an issue that would be of paramount importance when you guys discussed things.

 

but people are not perfect and they sometimes make mistakes.

True, but thats a huge one to forgive

 

I take huge offense to your posting that people who have affairs don't have morals. That in my case was absolutely not true. At the time what I did was selfish yes and the action itself was immoral but just because I made one mistake it does not make me fall into the "having no morals" category.

They don't have morals at that time or they wouldn't cheat.Thats not to say they will always be without morals but people who have affairs have no morals at the time they are cheating because they know it is morally wrong and do it anyway.

 

You have alot of anger and at this time you are not looking to what you might have contributed to the downfall of your marriage, if anything. At some point after your anger has cooled you may be able to say that you had some fault in the issue.

I took half responsibility for the ending of our marriage but in my situation we were trying to start a family so when your wife is excited about becoming pregnant and writing down temperatures every morning buying baby stuff the last thing you are thinking is "gee my wife might be un-happy"the councelor told her she has problems communicating her needs and feelings so I took fault at assuming because I was happy I assumed she was happy and I shouldn't have assumed but she acted normal never talked to me about her not feeling good about the marriage she just says nothing,acts totally normal like nothing is wrong and waits till she loses feelings then ends it.

 

I guess my whole point is I could not even fathom cheating on someone because it would make me feel so guilty and ashamed it would not be worth it. My assumption and I guess it's a little corny but if you have something that is bothering you ,you sit and talk it out with your partner and get everything straight not bottle it up inside and hope it gets better. I think being unhappy in a marriage is not worth being married so rather than wait years and years and also cheat I think it makes more sense to comunicate and deal with issues and problems as a team as they come up and if you cannot do that you shouldn't be married you should be dating.Would you agree?

[bkz]

So when you(in general not yourself) become unhappy why not talk to your partner and communicate what is wrong that would be the logical common sense thing to do lay it all on the table.

 

 

So why not communicate the needs to your partner?

 

 

I would assume you talked to your husband and he just refused over time to give you that emotional need but would that not come up in conversation before the 13 year mark more than once?Would it not be an issue that would be of paramount importance when you guys discussed things.

 

They (women) are talking to us and TRYING to communicate there needs and concerns about the relationship, we just dont hear what there saying most the time until its too late!!! Sad but true. We just dont all speak/express our feelings the same way and thats what makes it difficult I think to here whats really going on sometimes. We can only neglect, fail to meet there needs or take our spouses for granted for so long before they disconnect and just stop trying. Just my opinion and what I feel ive realized in going through my sitch. It may be morally wrong to cheat but just because someone cheets doesnt mean they have no moralls. We do all make mistakes and weather or not you can forgive someone for those mistakes is up to you. All that me and my wife have gone through lately, if she had cheated on me id like to think I love her enough that I couldve eventually gotten through it. Then again I tend to take blame for things that arent my fault at times in our marriage.

One more thing. it seams real easy for some to put a "tag" or "condition" on your spouse behavior when they want out of the marriage (esspecially if you feel its not justified) to help explain what there doing and why. I dunno just my oppinion for what its worth.

[mini696]

She is transferring her guilt onto you, and you are letting her.

[Mz. Pixie]

I absolutely communicated my needs to my partner. Numerous times. I BEGGED him to go to counseling. He always promised to change and he would do it and it would last for a couple of weeks. Then he would be back to his old tricks. He actually told me, "I'm too busy to work on our marriage, I do not have enough time"

 

When you've been married that long, and you have children, real estate and such together it's often not the easiest thing in the world to just get up and leave. Should I have left before I cheated? Yes- but I had no clue I was going to do it before I did it. It wasn't premeditated.

 

A couple of things I'm trying to get across to you-

 

1. The pain of the betrayed spouse is not the ONLY pain in these situations. Often times the cheating spouse has begged for years to have their needs met and have been ignored. You seem to think that in these situations one pain is higher than another. This is your anger talking. Pain is pain no matter who is feeling it.

 

2. Often times the cheater does feel guilty.

 

3. Just because someone cheats once, it does not make them a serial cheater nor does it make them a horrible person.

 

You're making mass generalizations based on your anger and your situation.

 

I find it hard to believe that you've made peace for what you did that ended the marriage because you've completely glossed over that part and are mostly focusing on what she did. You know why?? Because that's what she did to you- not what you did to her and in your mind your pain is more important.

 

Your wife does seem to have some mental issues. Could it have been that she was trying to get pregnant by you because she thought she was pregnant by the other man and then when she found out she wasn't she was ready to leave? I'm not sure. Only she knows the answer to this. Based on her previous experiences perhaps she is a serial cheater.

 

Just because she was though and because you're angry about it doesn't mean that everyone that is in that situation is the same. It also doesn't mean that everyone that cheats has a personality disorder. It's awfully nice sitting up there on your moral high horse until you're actually in the situation that I've been in. How do I know?? Because I used to be guilty of the same thing- looking down my nose at people who cheated and things like that. Until you are in that situation it's easy to feel that way. Things aren't always so simple in the real world unfortunately.

[basscatcher]

ECELLANT POST MZ. PIXIE. BRAVO BRAVO..

 

so much truth in everything you say about this topic..

 

the best advice you can get is from someone who has lived and survivied to tell about it.. (those who have come to terms with the infidelity on both sides and has forgiven.)

 

The worse people you can recieve advice from is someone who is still hurting and in the middle of their pain. Never take advice from someone who has not completed their grieving.. You will always get a biased answer...

 

Mz. Pixie knows what she speaks of.. Take it to heart..

 

I have been on both sides of the fence myself... Generally, BOTH parties carry hurt, confusion and misunderstandings. Both feel betrayed, neglected, lied too and abused.. Otherwise the infidelity wouldn't have happened.. There are things not being met when infidelity happens..

 

PERIOD..

[tonyp56]

I love this, a person that cheated on her marriage is telling a person that was cheated on how he should feel! Come on Mz. Pixie (and everyone else here) no person's pain is worse than the other. The person that was cheated on was hurt, the person that had everything ripped from them was hurt, and no one can say they shouldn't feel the way that they do! Cheating is SELFISH, period. No matter how you want to sugar coat it, it is nothing but a selfish act. You can not justify cheating, I don't care how hard you try. My wife, Scobro's wife, and you Mz. Pixie said in your vows that you would stay through bad and good times, and until death does you part! The point is, none of you women took your vows seriously, none of you understood what it was you were getting yourself into. To come back and say "you didn't fulfill some of my needs every second of every day, therefore I am going to cheat and leave you", is bull. Stop kidding yourself, you did wrong, and there is no excuse for it. If the men in those relationships had done the same (I know my wife wasn’t there like I needed her) you women would be mad, and hating all men for a while. And saying that cheating is selfish, etc…

 

My wife wasn't perfect, and I bet that if I had cheated on her, everyone would be hating me worse, but somehow, a woman cheats on her husband, and it is like who cares. A husband that loved and cherished his wife enough to love her unconditionally isn't good enough. I'll stop with this now, before I say something that I don't want to say.

 

As far as forgiving my wife, do you want to know what I don't forgive my wife for? The fact that she treats me like a piece of dirt now, if she would just make an effort to say to me "I am sorry" I would be able to handle it so much better. But instead, she seems to go out of her way to make sure that I feel worse. She doesn't understand why I should feel so bad. I just want some understanding from her that would make it so much easier. I will always love her, and I will always be there for her (she is my family, and not just for the kids), but when I am hurt, she doesn't even act like she could care. It is hard to be there and love someone that doesn’t act like they care, and it hurts even worse. I forgive her for everything, and through it all I love her, but she is making it all worse by acting like I never existed.

[tonyp56]

You will always get a biased answer...

 

Mz. Pixie knows what she speaks of.. Take it to heart..

 

I have been on both sides of the fence myself... Generally, BOTH parties carry hurt, confusion and misunderstandings. Both feel betrayed, neglected, lied too and abused.. Otherwise the infidelity wouldn't have happened.. There are things not being met when infidelity happens..

 

PERIOD..

 

First of all, Mz. Pixie IS giving a biased answer, she is coming from the perspective of the cheating wife! I am sure she does know what she is talking about, but that doesn't help those that have been cheated on!

 

The person that cheated, does nothing but show that their lives, that their needs, and that their problems, are more important than their spouse and children's lives, problems, needs. That is SELFISH. To sit there and say that there was needs in the marriage that weren't met, so therefore the affair just had to happen, is wrong. Of course there is always needs that aren't' met, but when you say "I do" you are supposed to figure out a way to work it out. Marriage is too easily thrown away, and people don't take it seriously anymore. Not having your "needs" met is not an excuse for cheating. If you don't like your marriage/relationship, get out, then go look for someone else, but don't cheat.

[Mz. Pixie]

I love this, a person that cheated on her marriage is telling a person that was cheated on how he should feel! Come on Mz. Pixie (and everyone else here) no person's pain is worse than the other. The person that was cheated on was hurt, the person that had everything ripped from them was hurt, and no one can say they shouldn't feel the way that they do! Cheating is SELFISH, period. No matter how you want to sugar coat it, it is nothing but a selfish act. You can not justify cheating, I don't care how hard you try. My wife, Scobro's wife, and you Mz. Pixie said in your vows that you would stay through bad and good times, and until death does you part! The point is, none of you women took your vows seriously, none of you understood what it was you were getting yourself into. To come back and say "you didn't fulfill some of my needs every second of every day, therefore I am going to cheat and leave you", is bull. Stop kidding yourself, you did wrong, and there is no excuse for it. If the men in those relationships had done the same (I know my wife wasn’t there like I needed her) you women would be mad, and hating all men for a while. And saying that cheating is selfish, etc…

 

My wife wasn't perfect, and I bet that if I had cheated on her, everyone would be hating me worse, but somehow, a woman cheats on her husband, and it is like who cares. A husband that loved and cherished his wife enough to love her unconditionally isn't good enough. I'll stop with this now, before I say something that I don't want to say.

 

As far as forgiving my wife, do you want to know what I don't forgive my wife for? The fact that she treats me like a piece of dirt now, if she would just make an effort to say to me "I am sorry" I would be able to handle it so much better. But instead, she seems to go out of her way to make sure that I feel worse. She doesn't understand why I should feel so bad. I just want some understanding from her that would make it so much easier. I will always love her, and I will always be there for her (she is my family, and not just for the kids), but when I am hurt, she doesn't even act like she could care. It is hard to be there and love someone that doesn’t act like they care, and it hurts even worse. I forgive her for everything, and through it all I love her, but she is making it all worse by acting like I never existed.

 

 

Tony, I believe that I said earlier in my post that everyone's pain is valid and that no person's pain is more important than anothers.

 

Also, perhaps you should read some more of my posts before you go off spouting a bunch of nonsense that you know nothing about. I have actually said that BOTH sexes are driven to cheat because of their needs not being met in a marriage. A woman let's herself go for years and years and never gives her husband sex and he cheats?? SHE is partly to blame. It takes TWO people to make or break a marriage, not one.

 

I have also said, repeatedly that I'm not trying to justify what I did. Where in my posts do I say what I did was right???

 

Who are you or anyone else to say that the pain of the person who was cheated on is worse than the person who was in the marriage before, not having their needs met?? YOU have no clue what I or anyone else went through.

 

Like I said before, what I try to do is to post the other side of the story. The one that you're not hearing from your wives. You obviously don't want to hear the real deal so how can you expect that they ever could have come to you with the problem??

 

Was the cheating selfish?? Absolutely. But you know what, that one act was the first selfish thing I did in 13 years of marriage. THE VERY FIRST. Was it selfish of my husband to put his job and his hobbies over everything else in his life?? Yes. Was it selfish for HIM not to follow the vows that he made on that day when he promised to love me as Christ loved the church?? YES it was. My pastor told him that he should treat me like I was a guest in my own home- do you freaking think that he did that???? Was it selfish of him to leave me alone night after night while he ran off and did whatever it was he wanted to do and leave me to raise his children?? Yes it sure was.

WHAT I DID WAS NOT ANY MORE WRONG THAN WHAT HE DID. IT ALL HURT.

 

You think that I jumped up and cheated after 13 years because my husband talked harshly to me over the breakfast table once or twice?? GIVE ME A BREAK. You honestly think that that happens?? It's a pattern of neglect that causes this to happen. Often times the person who cheated is SCREAMING for the other person to wake up and meet their needs, just do ANYTHING and it doesn't happen.

 

That is reality. It happens and you need to understand that there are always TWO sides to the story.

[basscatcher]

First of all, Mz. Pixie IS giving a biased answer, she is coming from the perspective of the cheating wife! I am sure she does know what she is talking about, but that doesn't help those that have been cheated on!

 

The person that cheated, does nothing but show that their lives, that their needs, and that their problems, are more important than their spouse and children's lives, problems, needs. That is SELFISH. To sit there and say that there was needs in the marriage that weren't met, so therefore the affair just had to happen, is wrong. Of course there is always needs that aren't' met, but when you say "I do" you are supposed to figure out a way to work it out. Marriage is too easily thrown away, and people don't take it seriously anymore. Not having your "needs" met is not an excuse for cheating. If you don't like your marriage/relationship, get out, then go look for someone else, but don't cheat.

 

Mz. Pixie does understand and she does know what she is talking about.. She may not have been on the other side of the fence but she understands what the cheater goes through..

You sound like one of those people who still needs to do alot of healing and you need to open up your mind to BOTH sides not just your own..

 

AND,, don't be so judgemental about the cheater.. You do not know all the facts of what, why, and how the cheater got to the point he/she ended up in the affair..

 

Unless you are God you TOO have the ability to fail and become a cheater. If you think you are so much better then every other human being on earth then you have a problem.. NOTHING is impossible. We are human and we are weak.. Unless you know all the details of a persons life and understand the psychology of human behavior you cannot possibly comprehend reality of adultry.

 

I for one, as I have stated before, have been on both sides of the fence.. I have a lot of dynamics and drama in my past.. I am one of the few in this society that has chosen and wants to better my life and that means self awareness and harsh reality of myself... Most people cannot look at themselves with open eyes and admit their faults and weakness's.. It is very hard to do... Most people don't have that ability.... Most humans are fighters and continue to butt there head up against everything.. Some of us fall apart, melt are weak and cannot fight back.. We don't have the spirit because we have been conditioned to fail by our familys, peers, and society. Alot of it also has to do with out temperment and health also.. There are many dynamics that affect how a person becomes and why they chose what they do and think.

 

You CANNOT just look at the result you need to see why it resulted to that.... You need to look past what you see in order to understand a complete vision..

 

If you can take a scenario and see the results and then go back and repeat it with different influences you will completely change the results in many situations.

 

It's apparent to me from your one track thinking and the I am better then you opinions that you are bitter and have not learned and understood people..

 

Sometimes I have encountered people that are so self righteous, arrogant, one track minded, hateful, closed minded, uncaring of others, and bitter that they may never be able to stop being extrememly prejudice against others imperfections.. I pray you are not one of them..

 

If you read some of Mz. Pixies and even my threads and posts you will understand people like her and I more.. Open your mind to understanding human behavior and conditioning and you might be able to understand why. You may even help yourself learn to forgive and heal from the inflictions you have suffered.

[Mz. Pixie]

I have been on both sides of the fence. I had a long term boyfriend that cheated on me repeatedly.

 

I would like to see the men whose wives do things like this to get something out of the experience and learn how to better themselves and work on a relationship so that next time this won't happen to them. Much like my current husband has done.

 

Great post Pada. Thanks!

[Trimmer]

Wow, guys - let's take a breath here...

 

First of all, for as intimate as we get in sharing our details here, and for as much as I like all you guys, I think we don't really know each other well enough to make mental health diagnoses of each other and each others' spouses, and truly judge each others' moral states, over the internet.

 

Secondly, it's easy to slip into the mode of hearing someone's experience and taking it personally, and/or projecting your strong feelings about your own situation onto a poster. I'll admit that I often find it fascinating and a little - well... almost dangerous - digesting Mz Pixie's posts about the feelings of the WS, because I can't help thinking of my wife - thinking, I'm talking to someone who has done the very thing that has hurt me. But at the same time, Mz Pixie didn't hurt me, and the level of communication between my wife and me was different than I believe it was in Mz Pixie's experience, and mostly, Mz Pixie is not my wife, so I am very glad to get her perspective, and I appreciate her thoughtfulness about her own situation, and her willingness to share it.

 

Another thing to realize is to be careful making sweeping generalizations supported by a single situation. bkz says:

 

They (women) are talking to us and TRYING to communicate there needs and concerns about the relationship, we just dont hear what there saying most the time until its too late!!!

 

Well, some women do, some women don't. The counterpoint to this is, how many times have you seen a woman post "I shouldn't have to spell it out, he should just get it." But I can listen to bkz's comment thoughtfully, consider the degree to which it applies to my situation or not, and not feel like I have to bounce back and attack him personally because I know that the truth of any one situation is specific to that situation and lies somewhere inbetween. My situation does not necessarily equal yours, and when we both understand that, we can still talk about our respective situations and even disagree respectfully, without projecting onto each other personally.

 

I listen to scobro talk about his pain, hurt, and anger at his wife not communicating her needs to him, and I have a stomach full of hot ball bearings because this part of his experience resonates directly with mine.

 

I listen to Mz Pixie talk about how her needs were not being met and how she couldn't bear the marriage any longer, and - at the same time as I have an impulse to project my anger for my wife onto her - I sit here with tears rolling down my cheeks thinking of my wife stagnating in our marriage, and my inability to realize that - regardless of how we divide up the fault.

 

Tony, scobro, you guys are angry and in pain, and that is totally understandable - no one should try to take that away from you. I know it doesn't seem to help - at this moment - to have someone tell you that part of it is your own fault. When you get past most of it, and you are ready to look to the future, you might find, as I have, that you hear Mz Pixie with different ears, and get some insights that may help you in future relationships.

 

Mz Pixie - you are being heard, and your truths are difficult ones to bear sometimes. Like I said, I'm alternately angry with you and I weep for your pain. Nothing is all black or all white.

 

Hey, there's enough brutality and anger in our individual experiences - we can express that anger to each other without getting brutal and angry towards each other.

[tinktronik]

Also, perhaps you should read some more of my posts before you go off spouting a bunch of nonsense that you know nothing about. I have actually said that BOTH sexes are driven to cheat because of their needs not being met in a marriage. A woman let's herself go for years and years and never gives her husband sex and he cheats?? SHE is partly to blame. It takes TWO people to make or break a marriage, not one.

 

.

 

 

Ok ,no one is driven to cheat ,maybe driven to unhappiness, but not driven to cheat, I have cheated ,not in a marrige but in a long past relationship.

Was I unhappy yes, was I wanting to leave, yes,was I driven to cheat ,NO!Your wife gets fat you dont like it ,you dont like it enough to be in another relationship ,LEAVE dont cheat . This is selfish and immature .It just causes more problems and more pain.Why blame anyone for anything? You are responsible for your actions, no one else.You alone are your own driver,no one else can drive you to do anything!You have free choice.Your h is a jerk leave him ,dont cheat.

Now I have some experiance with Borderlines,dont know still where you got this term,is she diagnosed.My mother too was a borderline (diagnosed) and shes a dangerous person, has destroyed many lives and will continue to do so.My fiancee's ex wife was a borderline (diagnosed) also,she went above and beyond destroying his life ,career ,family ,anything in her path,as well as their childs life.RUN as fast as you can ,seriously! Go in the opposite direction out of her path and stay out of it, this is all you can do.

[basscatcher]

I was with my exh for 11 1/2 years. Almost 8 of it I was married to him. We had two pregnacys. The first one we miscarried at 18 weeks, the second one we had a perfect baby boy who is NOW 16 years old.

 

My xh was a liar, he was manipulative, he was abusive, he was controlling, he was vey jealous.

Over the years I endured daily verbal and mental abuse mixed in with the shallow I'm sorry I'll never do that again to you promises which were always broken..

I was thrown around the house physically, I was pushed to the floor, I was pinned down and restrained, he screamed in my ears until i couldn't hear anymore all my ears did was ring, one time he pulled his shot gun out at 11pm during a argurment-he said he was going to sight in his gun because deer hunting was 2 weeks away (bullhockey!!), he would do drugs behind my back and always told me he quit doing drugs (i heard this during our whole 11 1/2 years, he was a weekend hard core alcholic and he would get very angry and abusive when he was drinking, we would get off of work and go home within 30 minutes he would leave and not return home till late. Many times he lied to me about where he was gong when I would ask. He woiuld leave his infant son and myself home in the country with no vehicle and no way to contact him if something happened. I didn't even know where he was most of the time..

 

He would sexuall assult me, force sex on me (rape in a marriage), he would have porn all over the house for everyone to see, I would catch him watching porn and masterbating on the couch at 3-4 in the morning, He would always take his biological family over his son and me.. If we had plans he would postpone them or cancel them because his brother wanted him at a party he was having or his parents wanted him to come over for dinner. I couldn't leave because I had no where to go and no money to get out. I didn't have many friends who understood and were supportive.

 

My xh stripped me of self esttem, my value, my worth. I felt so lost, alone, unloved, uncared for. My son is what held me together as much as I was. I was constantly sick, I hated my job, I felt so isolated.

 

Beleive me it wasn't all bad times we had good times also but the bad just out weighed it. I wanted to die.. literally.. I only lived because I had a beautiful very very good baby boy who needed me. I knew I couldn't count on his father to be a parent to him. My child deserved love, guidance, support. I was the one to do that even in my hell of a life. If I didn't have that baby I WOULD have committed suicide.

 

Thats when my male co-worker came into my life. I couldn't understand why this man was even talking to me because I thought I was ugly, and unlikeable. I was stripped down... He knew something wasn't right with me and he was patient and reached out to me. after months of working with him and him gaining my trust he started to help me build up my self esteem and I started to feel the strength to fight back in my relationship with my husband. Then the guy made a move on me and all these feelings came flooding over me emotionally and physically and I felt like I was drunk and paralyzed... I remember literally not being able to breath... I remember my legs getting so weak I almost fell down from his first kiss.. I got lost in myself..

I did not react out of selfishness......

I was stunned, shocked, scared, overwhelmed, and I also remember thinking "is this really happening?"

I felt his lips on mine-the softness, the gentleness, the sweetness, --(My xh wasnt like that)

I felt his hands touch me gently, with kindness and tenderness -- (my xh didnt touch me like that)

He held me close with his arms wrapped completely around me --(my xh didnt hold me like that)

 

I wanted to feel that love and kindness. I hadn't felt that since before my xh. I had been abused, degraded, neglected, ridiiculed for so many years I had forgotten what it felt like..

 

When you feed a starving animal how do they react..????? Can you even imagin...

I had many years of theraphy for many reasons and the biggest was my self esteem and worth.. I was neglected and abused by my father growing up. My mother raised my brother and I without help and no support for any govt system or our father.. The person who gave a little help was her bf of 19 years and he did very little because he didn't want to overstep his boundries as a parent because he wasn't our dad..

 

TONY---you need to realize that you cant judge all cheaters as the same. Each situation is different.. Some people just cheat because they like the rush and edgyness of getting what they want without getting caught. Others do it for ego purposes, Others -like me-- who were abused and were basically dead in life reacted because it brough life into us.. Others cheated for other reasons..

Stop generalizing cheaters as the same..

No one should cheat--I agree totally-- but you are being very harsh on those of us who have.. We don't need you to smear our faces in what we did. But you can try and understand and then maybe have a little respect for us as human beings. We are not perfect and neither are you..

 

I tried to communicate with my xh about my needs and that just made him angrier. I tried to get us into marriage counceling he wouldn't go. He blamed me for everything and said everything was my fault..

I cooked, cleaned, took care of his son, I budgeted the money and paid the bills, I dealt with all the bill collectors, I organized the holidays and prepared several of the Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners myself for his family.....

The few friends I had said I did way to much and that I was a doormat..

Our relationsihp didn't start out violent. He was tall, dark, handsome, attentive, charming, showered me with "I love yous" "I want to spend the rest of my life with you!" etc etc.. I was a insecure, lonely 18 yr old who come from a background of neglect, abuse and loneliness. I was vulnerable. The man I thought I would spend the rest of my life with (my HS sweetheart) was aloof and we didn't have much of a relationship by then. It was over and I was still lost in him and I rebounded because of the attention I got from my xh..

 

I am 37 yrs old now and I have grown a lot.. I have worked hard to understand myself and to heal. I am not the same person I was.. People can change but it takes a lot of work..

 

You need to grow and understand in order to forgive and live peacefully.

I can see the bitterness and the resentment and hurt by your posts. You attack without mercy and that is not healthy.. Any psychologist can tell you that..

 

Mz. Pixie and I can advocate for the neglected and abused cheater I can also advocate for the person being cheated on. I have not had too many loyal and faithful men in my life either.. I found out 3 years ago my xh had 7 affairs on me that we know of.. He even admitted it.. Most of my xbfs cheated on me also..

I am not perfect, I was not born with naturally beautiful balanced skin and color tone. I have almost always been a active sexual partner, I kept a very clean house, I was very much a caretaker and loving person, I am also one who can listen as well as talk about things.. I have many good qualities and traits that are attractive to a man.. I have been told this.. I have dated over 30+ men in my lifetime... I have no problem attracting men but its the type of men I have attracted..

I have changed the way I meet men so I have a better chance of meeting someone who is healthy and balanced.. I joined a matchmaker service that matches people by morals, values and interests as well as general backgrounds...

 

It is working thusfar... So far so good.. No I do not plan to ever cheat again. I soo much stronger now and I have self esteem and I feel good about myself and who I am as a person.. I kow myself very well now and I have built a strong backbone in myself that I will not allow someone to beat me down again..... NO WAY.... I have ended to bad relationships since my xh.. I am not nieve anymore like I was...

 

TONY-- what I ask of you is to stop slamming the cheater.. You say you would never cheat.. You are not GOD and you are not invincible.. You too are a sinner and weak and you could fail too.. Watch out what you judge cause what you judge you could be guilty of yourself..

[scobro]

Why blame anyone for anything? You are responsible for your actions, no one else.You alone are your own driver,no one else can drive you to do anything!You have free choice.Your h is a jerk leave him ,dont cheat

 

Exactly!!!

[basscatcher]

Why blame anyone for anything? You are responsible for your actions, no one else.You alone are your own driver,no one else can drive you to do anything!You have free choice.Your h is a jerk leave him ,dont cheat

 

Exactly!!!

 

I couldn't leave. I didn't live in a city big enough that had resources. I also didn't have the money to be able to leave.. I worked full time and my mother in law was my daycare. If I would have walked out I would have lost my daycare plus my job. Where would I have lived there wasn't anyplace in that small damn town to live in that my income would have paid for. and I made too much money to get any kind of assistance except WIC.

 

Some people think it is so easy to just leave.. Its NOT... My family couldn't help me either. NONE of us had extra income to be able to help one another then...

 

You don't know what hell is until you are in a hole with no ladder..

[someonesomewhere]

No, when my wife and I got married 23 years ago, I promised and mean't every word I said, I loved her before she cheated and I still love her after, even though technically she is still cheating-seeing the bottom feeder.

I would never cheat on her, I loved and respected her to much to ever do that, and it has tore me up so bad knowing that she has and is still doing this to me, she is no longer living in the house but we are still not legally separated. I was desperately ill for over a year, and instead of sticking by my side she found someone else. Now that I have finally had a operation and am on the road to recovery, I have had alot of time to think about the situation.

The words that keep drifting through my mind,,,,for better or worse,,,,through sickness and health, they are haunting me.

Worse part is, I could never stay mad at her, no matter what she did or is doing, I am a doormatt. I don't think I will ever be able to trust another women again, especially her, but if she came back tonight, I would welcome her with both arms open, maybe I am more messed up than she is.

We had a good marriage up to a year ago, and were also best friends, something changed in her, she is just not the same person, she used to be loving and caring towards the kids and I, now she is distant and selfish, and wants to have "fun". I have lost her, and I pray to God someday she will see what she has done and come back. I will wait.

[Trimmer]

Hey you guys! Take it outside!

 

Listen:

 

Mz Pixie and padameckla, please meet TonyP and scobro. They are in the early phases of separations, and are both acknowleging a lot of bitterness and anger right now. They need to express that and work it out (we hope without projecting too much onto others...), so they may not yet be ready to discuss their parts in what happened to their relationships, but I bet once they eventually get past this very difficult phase (which I'm sure you guys may remember parts of) they will be more receptive.

 

TonyP and scobro, please meet Mz Pixie and padameckla - they have been down difficult roads different from yours, but at some point when you are ready, they have some insights that may be hard to hear, but which you may find useful in the long run. Treat them well - or at least respectfully for now - you may find you will eventually welcome their input.

 

In lieu of us all laying down our qualifications for how difficult our situations are so that we can try to grab the moral high-ground to whack on each other, does anyone have any further thoughts on the original post from Zetter ( who surely is hiding by now, afraid of being hit by a flying lamp or ashtray... )