No contact confusion - who should break it (if ever.

[Anothersaddumpee]

I'm (M32) 3 months into no contact which I finally requested from my ex (F35), after rejecting her offer of friendship (we broke up a year previously, and I foolishly spent a year trying to meet her request to stay friends before I was over the romantic side). 

She was very upset when I asked to go no contact in order to fully heal. I said at the time that I just needed space and time to heal, and that I wasn't ready for contact "right now". 

I think she maybe took this to mean I never wanted to try and be friends when healed. We removed each other's social media/hid online statuses etc, but haven't full on blocked each other. 

I feel totally unsure now whether we may be friends one day - this is something I'd like once healed - or whether she's taken my request for no contact until healed as the end. I wish we'd clarified this at the time, but she was so upset at the request for space to heal that we didn't really clarify if future contact was likely. 

But so my question is - do you think the onus is on me to break no contact? Not sure I'm ready to yet, but it's on my mind, as usually I would expect the dumper (her) to be the one to break it (or more likely, not), but because I essentially "dumped" the failing friendship, I'm wondering if that means it's up to me to attempt to repair friendship in future. Don't really feel ready for that right now, but trying to work out if that's something I might do in future, as would imagine I've made it impossible for her to feel able to contact me first. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Anothersaddumpee
typo

[glows]

There may be a lot of confusing emotions going through you right now. There are no rules for how people stay in touch. Keep in mind that fixating on the idea that you’re beholden to her or owe her a friendship keeps you stuck in the past. Your next girlfriend may not be too happy about the fact that you’re still worried about what your ex thinks. 

Heal from the break up and cross one bridge at a time. Don’t try to cram all the decisions in now. Please, for all that’s green and good, don’t stay stuck in limbo. Blast out of this relationship and get on with living. Find and meet new people and be inspired to love again.

[Anothersaddumpee]

Thank you - needed this, it helps. Yes - I feel a bit stuck and definitely still not fully processing. I am steering clear of any other women for now as definitely don't want to bring any unresolved emotional problems. They say it's good to start dating again, but right now I feel so unready for that - even though it's been a year and 3 months. But I think really only 3 months owing to the long period of dubious "friendship". 

[glows]

I don’t recommend dating right now. You may feel better later on and leave room for that. The point is you’re too stuck in the idea that what your ex thinks matters. If you have no kids, there’s no reason to stress about staying in touch for coparenting or other obvious reasons requiring you to communicate. 

I’d be concerned this woman has been controlling and manipulating your every move since she met you or making you feel bad for thinking of your best interests or any time you disagree with her. It’s time to get up and think for yourself. The relationship is over. You owe the rest of your life to yourself, not her.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Anothersaddumpee said:

, I'm wondering if that means it's up to me to attempt to repair friendship in future. 

Sorry this happened. You don't owe anyone friendship. It's your responsibility to move forward with your life free and clear of this baggage. Start dating. You'll soon see that hanging on to a dead relationship is holding you back from happiness.

There's too much water under the bridge to pretend to be friends. Additionally, anyone you date will be put off by hanging on to the past. Focus on your future and set yourself free from this.

[flitzanu]

there is no "asking for no contact" you just do it.  it isnt a mutual obligation, it is for you to heal.  

once you wake up some day in the future and have no romantic feeling or confusion about her, then maybe try being friends.

there's no rule on who needs to contact whom or who is responsible, as right now YOU want no contact, therefore you block and ignore all contact from her and you also do not contact her.  this isn't about what she wants.

[ShyViolet]

You clearly still have hurt feelings over this, and are not over the breakup.  This is exactly why going no-contact and sticking to it is necessary in most breakups.  This is exactly why it's usually not a good idea to stay "friends" with an ex and keep yourself in a drawn-out limbo with the person.  She is not your "friend", she is your ex.  Maybe it's best to just leave this in the past.

[Lotsgoingon]

So you're ready to have contact with her when you don't care about her feelings and reaction.

Right now, you're worrying about her and what she feels. NO! That means your separation is not fully done. Once you break up, you are no longer in any way responsible for your ex's feelings. In no way.

And you don't let your ex's feelings influence who you date now or how youl live now.

Sounds like you are NOT there yet. And btw: you don't owe her a reason for no contact. You got some codependency going on. She is now--or should be --outside of your world. And here's the rub: if she can't survive and thrive without you, then she is not worthy of you dating her. We only want to date people who we KNOW would go out and live a great life if something happens to us. If you're feeling sorry for her, there's a chance you don't fully respect her. And she may be in some tendency to ask for your help when she could do her own caretaking. You don't want a relationship like that. 

Here's a more direct guideline. You are ready to break no contact when she can tell you about dating another guy who makes more money than you and who is better looking than you--and you have no reaction! Friends can encourage each other to date. Wanna go further?: you are ready to be friends when she can tell you about sleeping with a guy and you have no reaction.

Are you there? 

The irony is if you keep no contact she will move on and not need you. If you stay in touch, she will cling. Both of you need to go out and build a new support system to rely on that system for support--not your ex. 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[NuevoYorko]

I don't believe that it's natural for most  couples who have broken up to ever resume contact and develop a healthy friendship.  

Regardless of whether yours is going to become a friendship someday or not, it seems to me that you're too invested in this.  It would be best if you could leave this relationship in the past more, and concern yourself today with possibly dating others, planning a trip, doing things with your close friends and / or enjoying hobbies.

[Lotsgoingon]

True--it's totally unnatural. 

I have done this only because there were years and years between me dating the person and me becoming their friend.  There was an 11-year gap between seeing each other romantically and really becoming friends.  And this is a situation where WE KNEW ahead of time that we were not going to date long term. We just happened to be living together in a group house--but as the date got closer that we were going to leave the house, she made her plans and I made mine--with NO effort  to include the other.

And still it took time for us to really become friends. Like I have visited her and her husband twice--they live across the country. Husband loves me. He encourages me. And they came here to visit me three years ago. That took time. 

The best way to friendship (if there is any way) is to completely FORGET ABOUT being friends. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Alpacalia]

Take it as a hint that maybe you aren't quite ready to become close friends with your ex if you don't feel like having a conversation with her or going on a long tirade, breaking down in tears or shutting down completely.

A couple of ex-boyfriends I have a pleasant relationship with, but like mentioned above, the relationship ended years ago, and for us our interactions are intermittent.

Forging a friendship before you are ready is just counterproductive. You need time away from each other and you need to re-enter the world as a single person. Grieving a breakup requires time and space. Even amicable breakups require time to work through feelings.

[ExpatInItaly]

You are going to find that you two will likely drift out of each other's lives, as most exes do. The majority do not stay friends, but rather remain as memories as you both move on. 

So take the focus off the terms of No Contact, and concentrate instead on healing. Whether or not you two become friends again is not important at this time. You are very far from being ready for that anyway, which is normal. But don't try to plan these things. Let time works its magic and you'll probably see that you aren't so worried about being her friend a year from now. 

[JTSW]

From your last post, I don't think you should ever contact this woman again.

You tried being friends but still ended up continuing sleeping together.

It doesn't work and you will only end up right back there again.

[Anothersaddumpee]

22 hours ago, glows said:

I don’t recommend dating right now. You may feel better later on and leave room for that. The point is you’re too stuck in the idea that what your ex thinks matters. If you have no kids, there’s no reason to stress about staying in touch for coparenting or other obvious reasons requiring you to communicate. 

I’d be concerned this woman has been controlling and manipulating your every move since she met you or making you feel bad for thinking of your best interests or any time you disagree with her. It’s time to get up and think for yourself. The relationship is over. You owe the rest of your life to yourself, not her.

I feel faintly guilty even now saying this - but can't deny I feel very seen by you here - yes, she certainly didn't react well to any disagreement or expression of any problems or issues from my side. Which was confusing, since she also criticised me for not communicating - but I very quickly became reluctant to do so, as it often wasn't worth upsetting things. Wow - I feel so pathetic when writing this - but am trying to focus on the fact that I have at least finally managed to separate myself from her (even tho it doesn't feel that way - I'm still experiencing waves of nausea/anxiety over a year after the original final break up...) Thanks for your words - and you're right also - it's getting my head around the idea that it doesn't matter what she thinks, and certainly not ruling out dating one day - just feels a LONG way off! 

[Anothersaddumpee]

18 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. You don't owe anyone friendship. It's your responsibility to move forward with your life free and clear of this baggage. Start dating. You'll soon see that hanging on to a dead relationship is holding you back from happiness.

There's too much water under the bridge to pretend to be friends. Additionally, anyone you date will be put off by hanging on to the past. Focus on your future and set yourself free from this.

Thank you - always good to hear and rehear/resee this - I don't feel ready to actively seek a partner right now, but am hopeful that I will eventually - and I guess in the mean time just focus on as much baggage unloading as possible! It's weird - there are times it feels utterly impossible, but occasionally I think maybe it's just a case of simplifying things and actively deciding not to care - and trying not to overthink - your comments remind me of this - just stop hanging on. 

[Anothersaddumpee]

18 hours ago, flitzanu said:

there is no "asking for no contact" you just do it.  it isnt a mutual obligation, it is for you to heal.  

once you wake up some day in the future and have no romantic feeling or confusion about her, then maybe try being friends.

there's no rule on who needs to contact whom or who is responsible, as right now YOU want no contact, therefore you block and ignore all contact from her and you also do not contact her.  this isn't about what she wants.

Thank you so much - I keep saying it, but it currently feels like rehearing/rereading such strong and clear advice as this can't happen enough. It's like - repeat repeat repeat & hope that it gradually goes in. I totally agree that this is something I'm doing in order to stand a chance at healing - something her clinginess and hot and cold behaviour was making impossible. She was furious about the request for time and space, which surprised me on some levels, not on others, and I think played on my fear of upsetting her. So whereas I felt empowered at the moment of politely requesting some time and space to heal, somehow, because she was angered, it left me feeling anything but.

But - the key line in your advice is "once you wake up some day in the future and have no romantic feeling or confusion" - THIS resonates. This is was I repeat to myself whenever I have one of those wobbles in which I start to feel like reaching out. Like - I feel a rush of forgiveness, concern for her, second guessing and so on. But if I feel like reaching out/feel this kind of softening of resolve, I just need to ask myself if I truly feel no romantic feelings/pain/anxiety/confusion, and the answer is always a resounding no! 

Thank you for reinforcing this - I strongly suspect that if I ever manage to feel none of those things, I will probably also have no real desire to contact her anyway. Thank you! 

[Anothersaddumpee]

18 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You clearly still have hurt feelings over this, and are not over the breakup.  This is exactly why going no-contact and sticking to it is necessary in most breakups.  This is exactly why it's usually not a good idea to stay "friends" with an ex and keep yourself in a drawn-out limbo with the person.  She is not your "friend", she is your ex.  Maybe it's best to just leave this in the past.

Yes - thank you - very straight forward advice but it's the truth & I'm grateful to read it as think each time this kind of approach is spoken, hopefully my brain moves a tiny bit closer towards understanding & beginning to accept! 

[Anothersaddumpee]

15 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

So you're ready to have contact with her when you don't care about her feelings and reaction.

Right now, you're worrying about her and what she feels. NO! That means your separation is not fully done. Once you break up, you are no longer in any way responsible for your ex's feelings. In no way.

And you don't let your ex's feelings influence who you date now or how youl live now.

Sounds like you are NOT there yet. And btw: you don't owe her a reason for no contact. You got some codependency going on. She is now--or should be --outside of your world. And here's the rub: if she can't survive and thrive without you, then she is not worthy of you dating her. We only want to date people who we KNOW would go out and live a great life if something happens to us. If you're feeling sorry for her, there's a chance you don't fully respect her. And she may be in some tendency to ask for your help when she could do her own caretaking. You don't want a relationship like that. 

Here's a more direct guideline. You are ready to break no contact when she can tell you about dating another guy who makes more money than you and who is better looking than you--and you have no reaction! Friends can encourage each other to date. Wanna go further?: you are ready to be friends when she can tell you about sleeping with a guy and you have no reaction.

Are you there? 

The irony is if you keep no contact she will move on and not need you. If you stay in touch, she will cling. Both of you need to go out and build a new support system to rely on that system for support--not your ex. 

 

 

 

THANK YOU FOR THIS! You've genuinely helped me to start to alter my perspective - especially in explaining about the codependency - "if she can't survive and thrive without you, then she is not worthy of you dating her" - this really hit me, and from both my and from her perspective. I suppose my focus has largely been on feeling like I can't survive without her - but of course, that makes me unworthy of dating her, but yeh, I guess it goes two ways, and so if she is struggling to thrive also, I am allowed to see this as something I don't want either. For the first year or so I felt a keen sense of this - as if me leaving her was totally not an option, so it's been scary to feel the tables turn and to end up feeling like the one who can't accept our incompatibilities. Thank you - and yeh - I'm definitely not at the "tell me about the hot new wealthy guy your sleeping with" stage !!!! 

[Anothersaddumpee]

15 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I don't believe that it's natural for most  couples who have broken up to ever resume contact and develop a healthy friendship.  

Regardless of whether yours is going to become a friendship someday or not, it seems to me that you're too invested in this.  It would be best if you could leave this relationship in the past more, and concern yourself today with possibly dating others, planning a trip, doing things with your close friends and / or enjoying hobbies.

All sound advice and I'm finding it helpful to have this reiterated - thank you so much! 

[Anothersaddumpee]

15 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

True--it's totally unnatural. 

I have done this only because there were years and years between me dating the person and me becoming their friend.  There was an 11-year gap between seeing each other romantically and really becoming friends.  And this is a situation where WE KNEW ahead of time that we were not going to date long term. We just happened to be living together in a group house--but as the date got closer that we were going to leave the house, she made her plans and I made mine--with NO effort  to include the other.

And still it took time for us to really become friends. Like I have visited her and her husband twice--they live across the country. Husband loves me. He encourages me. And they came here to visit me three years ago. That took time. 

The best way to friendship (if there is any way) is to completely FORGET ABOUT being friends. 

I love this response - thank you - as it somehow helps me to get real/realise that friendship should not be a main concern right now, and is definitely not something to focus on whilst still struggling so much with the break up. The last line - yes, I agree, thank you - this is very helpful. I'm really glad and heartened also to hear that you have slowly managed to reform a meaningful connection with your ex, but yes, can see that this has taken a lot of time and strength. Ok - I'm breathing a sigh of relief at the thought of not having to worry about friendship at all for now. 

[Anothersaddumpee]

13 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Take it as a hint that maybe you aren't quite ready to become close friends with your ex if you don't feel like having a conversation with her or going on a long tirade, breaking down in tears or shutting down completely.

A couple of ex-boyfriends I have a pleasant relationship with, but like mentioned above, the relationship ended years ago, and for us our interactions are intermittent.

Forging a friendship before you are ready is just counterproductive. You need time away from each other and you need to re-enter the world as a single person. Grieving a breakup requires time and space. Even amicable breakups require time to work through feelings.

Thank you for this - I'm glad to hear that you have some amicable friendships with exes, but yeh - what we were doing was in no way intermittent - still very much daily & living together for long periods - indistinguishable really from much of the mechanics of the relationship. I felt so much pressure to snap quickly to the same page as her, despite it feeling totally counterintuitive and unnecessarily painful. Guess it's just taking a lot of time to shake the feeling of needing to make her happy at the expense of my own healing/growth, but your advice is helping very much. 

[Anothersaddumpee]

7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You are going to find that you two will likely drift out of each other's lives, as most exes do. The majority do not stay friends, but rather remain as memories as you both move on. 

So take the focus off the terms of No Contact, and concentrate instead on healing. Whether or not you two become friends again is not important at this time. You are very far from being ready for that anyway, which is normal. But don't try to plan these things. Let time works its magic and you'll probably see that you aren't so worried about being her friend a year from now. 

Thank you - this brings some much needed reassurance and relief - however sad it feels - you're right, I am far too het up with the terms of the no contact when really the point is to not be worried about contact with her. And yes - also hoping that once I'm more healed, the need to be friends will naturally lessen. 

[Anothersaddumpee]

3 hours ago, JTSW said:

From your last post, I don't think you should ever contact this woman again.

You tried being friends but still ended up continuing sleeping together.

It doesn't work and you will only end up right back there again.

Thank you for this - the directness is very helpful and I agree - I (as the dumpee) was relying too much on her setting boundaries - like, I was confused as if I've ever ended a relationship, the last thing I'd be wanting or doing is sleeping with the person, so I think that always struck me as a indicative of her not being sure, but it seems maybe not. Thank you! 

[Alpacalia]

6 minutes ago, Anothersaddumpee said:

Thank you for this - I'm glad to hear that you have some amicable friendships with exes, but yeh - what we were doing was in no way intermittent - still very much daily & living together for long periods - indistinguishable really from much of the mechanics of the relationship. I felt so much pressure to snap quickly to the same page as her, despite it feeling totally counterintuitive and unnecessarily painful. Guess it's just taking a lot of time to shake the feeling of needing to make her happy at the expense of my own healing/growth, but your advice is helping very much. 

Thanks! Your interaction with each other transcends boundaries and you are both doing it with each other. A couple who break up can't continue to sleep together. I don't think you can stay in the same bed and cuddle, go out for a meal and plan activities while healing at the same time.

[Lotsgoingon]

Guess it's just taking a lot of time to shake the feeling of needing to make her happy at the expense of my own healing/growth, but your advice is helping very much. 

Hey this is a terrible attitude and approach for breaking up. But it's equally terrible for dating someone. Our job in dating is not to make someone else happy. I'm not sure that's possible. That's high-school thinking. People's moods are their moods. People have particular personalities. We cannot make someone else happy. We can treat them well. We can enjoy their company. We can say loving words. But whether they receive those words is up to them. 

People are responsible for their own happiness.  We can strategically comfort them in bad periods. But where did you get this idea that we can make another person happy? That is nowhere in the research on happiness and joy.  We can be part of a happy life. But we're not in control of the happiness.

Focusing on someone else's happiness is a recipe for self-neglect. What about your own happiness?