he came back, but a vent…

[birdie_b]

I’ve been divorced for nine years, dated a ton, zero success.  I’ve had feelings for three guys.  The first one was right at the beginning, I’ll call him Joe.  I was having a great time with for maybe three months before he just suddenly ended it with no real explanation and the other two turned out to be married and lying about it.  

When things ended with Joe I was kinda devastated.  I wasn’t really looking for a relationship, since I was basically ten minutes out of a 25 year marriage, but we had so much chemistry, like he felt like a really fun addiction to me at the time, but there was also something really sweet about how we were together.  But him just cutting out like that left me feeling like I couldn’t trust myself, like maybe I was the only one feeling the chemistry and had just imagined or fooled myself into believing that he was having fun too.  The way he just suddenly turned away made me feel like I read everything about him/us wrong. 

And then last week he messaged out of the blue and now I realize that he did like me, like a lot.  He has missed me for real, like the way someone who cares misses someone.  I’m pretty happy about it, like 98% of my feelings about being with him now are comfortable and happy.  But I’m pissed about carrying that around all these years.  

Anyhow, I think I know what freaked him out and I never woulda guessed back then.  I’m pretty sure I was intimidating to him sexually.  There mighta been more to it, but that was a big part.  I was fresh out of 25 years of a very difficult marriage and I was crazy.  I wanted to do it every possible way you could and for hours at a time.  It is just painfully obvious to me now, but I had no idea then.  He was really attractive and a body builder and younger and I just assumed bc of how he looked (and possibly bc he seemed to be up to the job) that he was super confident and used to women being that way with him.  Now, having been out there all this time learning about how people are, it is plain as day that he wasn’t that kind of confident and not the player I imagined.

Ugh, finding out I was wrong has been great but walking around thinking that nobody has had any kind of feelings for me all this time has been rough.  In the last year I’ve set my life up and made plans for how to grow old alone.  I’m still planning on following through with that, of course, but there’s probably room in there he (or some other guy) could fit into if that comes to pass.  But I have done some things that I can’t and don’t want to undo.  I really truly thought I was not likable enough to have a relationship.  

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, birdie_b said:

I’m pretty sure I was intimidating to him sexually.

What did he say or do that indicates this was the reason he ended it?

Or is this pure speculation on your part? 

[basil67]

If him being intimidated sexually was the problem, you weren't doing anything wrong.  You were just being yourself.  Don't ever start out a relationship pretending to be someone you're not....because in this case, you might have ended up with a guy who couldn't meet your needs.

 

[JTSW]

Has he given you an explanation for why he cut and run?

Or are you just assuming you were just too sexually intimidating?

What exactly does he want now?

Does he want to get back into a relationship with you?

Don't jump straight into this OP, keep your guard up.

[NuevoYorko]

If your sexuality caused him to disappear on you - you are not compatible.  

[birdie_b]

10 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What did he say or do that indicates this was the reason he ended it?

Or is this pure speculation on your part? 

Not pure speculation, but no scientific certainty, either.  The main thing was that from the moment he first contacted me I was thinking, oh damn, I cannot live up to what I was in that moment, wouldn’t even want to.  So I ended up telling him I was worried that he was gonna be disappointed because I wasn’t interested in porn star sex or even just the quantity of sex that I used want and he seemed so relieved.  And then I started thinking of stuff that happened last go round, and realized that there’s always been this resistance to me sexually, which I’m really not used to feeling from men, not sure I’ve ever felt it from anyone else.
 

And then the other day he came to my place, this being the fourth time we spent time together since getting back in touch.  The plan was basically for him to come over and have sex, like it wasn’t totally explicit, but it was “we have five hours alone before kids come back.”  So we ended up spending the first three plus hours cuddling and talking, and then it seemed like we really weren’t gonna until we talked a little about his performance fears, like just getting it up/keeping it up, and I told him that I was just feeling like my soul was being taken care of in the cuddle and I wasn’t worried about whether we had sex.  It seemed like it took pressure off and so it happened.

[birdie_b]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

If him being intimidated sexually was the problem, you weren't doing anything wrong.  You were just being yourself.  Don't ever start out a relationship pretending to be someone you're not....because in this case, you might have ended up with a guy who couldn't meet your needs.

 

I agree!  Though I think I was so caught up in that crazy moment of my life that I was tone deaf to him — like all of the intensity and excitement was there in me completely on my own, not even about him really, even tho I really liked him.  I had just had my heart stomped on by my husband of 25 years and we had never had a good sex life.  I was part celebrating getting sex back in my life and part trying to drown my sorrows.  And part liking him, but the liking him part was probably overshadowed by just my own s*** that he could only be a witness to, not a part of.  
 

I don’t think many men could’ve handled all my angst then, much of which was coming out through sex.  I really am an easier person to be with now that I’ve calmed down.

8 hours ago, JTSW said:

Has he given you an explanation for why he cut and run?

Or are you just assuming you were just too sexually intimidating?

What exactly does he want now?

Does he want to get back into a relationship with you?

Don't jump straight into this OP, keep your guard up.

So, no explanation really.  I was so hurt at the time and had a hard time getting over it, so I texted him maybe 4 or 5 mos after he ended it and told him I needed to understand it better and he told me that he’d gone back to church and I wasn’t compatible with that life.  I have no idea how much truth there was in that.  (I don’t even believe in god and I’m afraid if god really is a big thing for him, that’ll be the thing that makes it impossible to be with him, not that it’s a deal breaker for me, but we just won’t get each other, yk?)

Im not really sure what he wants now, but it feels totally different than before.  Last time, I was dating others and it felt like a series of booty calls, not really dating, and I was not thinking relationship at all. I was actually still living in the house w my ex in separate bedrooms, like definitely not getting into a relationship.  This time we’re talking on the phone every day, a couple of days ago we talked for four hours, which felt so good to me.  

Personally I feel crazy over him, like just how we are together, but I’m not sure how compatible we are.  I am pretty sure that he voted for Trump and I have two trans daughters — for me that’d be a lot to digest, and then there’s god and I’m sure another dozen ways we’re incompatible.  So, I feel grateful to revisit and rewrite this because I do like who he is so much and I’m bruised and I need a cuddle.  But I’m not super optimistic that he is my other half.

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

If your sexuality caused him to disappear on you - you are not compatible.  

I’m much different now and I think my sexuality in that moment would’ve been difficult for anyone who wasn’t just looking for an energetic romp.  

[basil67]

2 hours ago, birdie_b said:

I’m much different now and I think my sexuality in that moment would’ve been difficult for anyone who wasn’t just looking for an energetic romp.  

On the night of the day I met my husband, we had an insanely energetic romp.  Some guys would have been scared, but the next morning he was a very happy man

It's about compatibility 

[birdie_b]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

On the night of the day I met my husband, we had an insanely energetic romp.  Some guys would have been scared, but the next morning he was a very happy man

It's about compatibility 

I really don’t think we’re sexually incompatible, but there’re other things (politics and god spring to mind, probably other things too) that may be impossible to get past.  But sexually, we have a scary amount of chemistry, I know there’s more to compatibility than that, but he feels just perfect to me physically.  We’ve only had sex once since reconnecting, but I’m so comfortable with him physically even when sex isn’t in the air, there’s been hardly a moment we’re not touching and it feels so healing to me.  Like I’ve been wanting forever to just have someone’s arms around me but when it happens, it’s not satisfying because I know it’s only for the moment and it’s really just physical.  But with him it doesn’t feel just physical, feels like he’s fully there with me.  I really think he’s in it with his heart and I haven’t felt that in a man for a long time.  
 

It makes me happy to know I can feel this way and someone can feel this way about me even if it doesn’t work as a relationship.  I think I need whatever this feeling is to even consider making someone my partner, so it is a huge relief to see that it’s possible.  

Edited January 31, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
make political comment neutral

[ExpatInItaly]

10 hours ago, birdie_b said:

no explanation really.  I was so hurt at the time and had a hard time getting over it, so I texted him maybe 4 or 5 mos after he ended it and told him I needed to understand it better and he told me that he’d gone back to church and I wasn’t compatible with that life.

You're not going to like hearing this, but there is no way  I would have let this man back into my life now. 

I would be very cautious if I were you, as it sounds a lot like he's currently going through a dry spell or got dumped and figured you wouldn't say no to him. Please don't get your hopes up on this one as he does not sound at all reliable and you stand to get hurt again. 

[birdie_b]

12 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You're not going to like hearing this, but there is no way  I would have let this man back into my life now. 

I would be very cautious if I were you, as it sounds a lot like he's currently going through a dry spell or got dumped and figured you wouldn't say no to him. Please don't get your hopes up on this one as he does not sound at all reliable and you stand to get hurt again. 

I don’t like hearing it!  But I don’t want my heart broken, either.  What was it about his explanation that feels wrong?  Is it that it sounds like complete crap and a lie or that it sounds legit and if so that’s weird and f’d up?  Or something else?

When he said the church thing to me back then I didn’t think too hard about the veracity of it, just thought that was unexpected and outside of whatever it was I was fearing (ie, like maybe he just didn’t like me) and gave me a way to not just believe my fears and accept that there might be another explanation. 

Now I’d be happier if the church thing was a white lie.  I don’t want him to be a church guy.  lol  And while I don’t wanna be with a liar, I think I’m ok being with someone who once told a lie to soften a blow like that.  If the truth was that he liked me but I made him feel unsafe, I don’t exactly think he “owed” me the truth.  

So, I’m curious if there was something in that that smelled bad to you.  I wanna trust him but I also wanna protect myself. 

[Alpacalia]

It doesn't sound like there's necessarily anything inherently wrong with what he told you, but rather that there's a mismatch between what he told you and what you suspect to be the truth.

You went through a difficult experience with Joe and that absolutely without a doubt affected your confidence in your own perceptions and feelings.

He turned away and it caused you to doubt yourself.

On 1/31/2023 at 11:19 AM, birdie_b said:

So, no explanation really.  I was so hurt at the time and had a hard time getting over it, so I texted him maybe 4 or 5 mos after he ended it and told him I needed to understand it better and he told me that he’d gone back to church and I wasn’t compatible with that life.  I have no idea how much truth there was in that.  (I don’t even believe in god and I’m afraid if god really is a big thing for him, that’ll be the thing that makes it impossible to be with him, not that it’s a deal breaker for me, but we just won’t get each other, yk?)

In your pursuit of closure, you went after him. It is normal to want closure in a situation that left you feeling hurt as well as to understand what happened. Reaching out to him after a relationship ends and he has moved on is not a good idea.

It isn't that I am overly skeptical, but I want to note that most guys know that when they leave you and you chase after them, they can have you back when they want you. He knows that if he tries to pursue some new girl and fails, he can have you back in a heartbeat. In the meantime, you are an emotional wreck who is eager to take him back, thinking that having him will bring you fulfillment and happiness. Besides not being true, it completely undermines yourself.

I think it would do you good to start meeting and dating new men and put Joe on hold.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Alpacalia

[birdie_b]

@Alpacalia  When I “went after him,” I felt like he hurt me and I didn’t understand why and he was the only one who could help me understand.  Like this was his mess and I needed him to help clean it up.  Or at least he had knowledge about it that could help and also that he was responsible for it, so I felt he owed me some kind of explanation.  I wasn’t looking to get back with him (tho if he’d said “I want you” or something, I admit that I woulda been in jeopardy of running back, so I do understand the problem w approaching him with that) and I didn’t in any way protest or make a case for myself.  I just listened and got back to the part of healing that I could do on my own.  And it did actually help, even tho I didn’t truly believe it (I do think there may be some truth in it now tho).  

Like it’s hard for me to regret that because it was my honest need and I was expressing myself in an honest straightforward way.  And it helped.  I do agree that it’s too bad that he knew in some way that I had some thing for him and he had a high likelihood of success with me.  I hadn’t thought of that till you pointed it out and I guess I’m happy you did because I kinda bend over backwards to treat other people well (including possibly giving the benefit of the doubt where I shouldn’t and in this case I obviously should proceed carefully.

I don’t think I can stand to just walk away from this, though.  I can’t think of a time that a man has felt so open and vulnerable with me and said things that feel to me to be about really liking me.  I don’t think I’m being obvious about how much it’s touched me because I’ve learned during these single years that it’s a terrible faux pas to allow a man to see that you like him.  

One of the weird details about the way things were when we were seeing each other before was that there were a couple of times that I kind of caught him off guard, like he wasn’t expecting to see me, and both times he just lit up.  It felt inconsistent with some other stuff, but those moments of lighting up felt real to me.  And I’m pretty pessimistic, I really don’t think ANY the probably 150 men that I’ve had dealings with since my ex wanted anything to really do with me beyond sex.  I don’t think a one of them could claim to have cared about me one bit.  Christ!  But in those moments I felt it from him. I think the inconsistency came from the fact that I was a lot to deal with and that I wasn’t emotionally available.  

If things keep up the way they have, I can look forward to finding another one in maybe ten years, or maybe it’s a once in 50 years situation for all I know.  I cannot just say this one might be too mucked up from the past and say I don’t wanna bother with it.  I do.

But I will be careful and keep my eyes open and make sure I’m not explaining away stuff that is unacceptable.  

ETA: Also I wasn’t dating before he contacted me.  I’m planning a move out of the country and my life plan was to go there and be alone.  I work on my couch, so the idea was to go somewhere where it’s not so expensive to keep my couch inside and just enjoy some hiking with my dogs.  I am still planning on doing that.  If things go bad with him, I’ll be doing that and if things go good with him I’ll be doing that.  If things go super great between us, I’d be happy to discuss him coming with me, but definitely won’t be living in the US six months from now.

Edited February 2, 2023 by birdie_b

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, birdie_b said:

I’m curious if there was something in that that smelled bad to you

The whole situation smells bad. 

Cut things off rather suddenly without an explanation. Then when pressed, said you didn't fit his new religious lifestyle. And now he's randomly back again, again without much explanation?

Avoid men like this. They will come and go from your life and leave you hurt (as you already experienced) and confused. They're not relationship material. 

[birdie_b]

Ugh.  I don’t think chances are great that you’re wrong, but I hope you are.  I don’t think I have it in me to just walk away.  I guess I’m feeling rn like I had decided to just be alone and I was oddly feeling pretty happy about it — not so much about living alone but about making myself a life that I’ll love but’ll make finding someone harder.  I’m the meantime, I’m not going to look for someone but I am gonna see where this thing goes.  I will probably get hurt, but when it’s over I’ll be pretty sure that’s the end of the story.  I will also be thinking about damage control as I go, try to get out the moment I realize I’m wrong about him.  But I think if I just leave without knowing what would’ve happened I’d kinda hate myself over it.  I’d rather see it through and take the L.

[FMW]

Politics and religion are two biggies.  Different viewpoints and beliefs make it hard to really connect and stay connected if either of you feel strongly about these topics.  

On 1/31/2023 at 1:19 PM, birdie_b said:

he told me that he’d gone back to church and I wasn’t compatible with that life.

If he was being honest about that I don't see where there's any coming back from that.  I wouldn't trust his change of heart.

Physical chemistry, which includes just cuddling and touching, won't compensate long term for fundamental differences.  

[birdie_b]

58 minutes ago, FMW said:

Politics and religion are two biggies.  Different viewpoints and beliefs make it hard to really connect and stay connected if either of you feel strongly about these topics.  

If he was being honest about that I don't see where there's any coming back from that.  I wouldn't trust his change of heart.

Physical chemistry, which includes just cuddling and touching, won't compensate long term for fundamental differences.  

I agree with all of this completely.  I’m pretty serious about my politics.  So far we haven’t talked about it at all, but I did tell him my daughters are trans.  His reaction was perfect, basically “are they happy?”  But politics will come up eventually.  I don’t think this is likely to work at all.  But for now I’m spending time with someone I like and soaking up some much needed affection.  

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, birdie_b said:

 for now I’m spending time with someone I like and soaking up some much needed affection.  

This is fine because you seem to have things in perspective. The chemistry is good, you're both enjoying that in the moment, and you also aren't trying to revisit this as a viable relationship because of well established incompatibilities.

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, birdie_b said:

Like it’s hard for me to regret that because it was my honest need and I was expressing myself in an honest straightforward way.  And it helped.  I do agree that it’s too bad that he knew in some way that I had some thing for him and he had a high likelihood of success with me.  I hadn’t thought of that till you pointed it out and I guess I’m happy you did because I kinda bend over backwards to treat other people well (including possibly giving the benefit of the doubt where I shouldn’t and in this case I obviously should proceed carefully.

I can understand your desire for understanding and closure, and your candid and straightforward approach demonstrates your sincerity. While you acknowledge the situation put you in a vulnerable position, it sounds like it helped you.

Moving forward, it's good to be mindful of the potential for exploitation and to proceed with caution in similar situations. 

9 hours ago, birdie_b said:

One of the weird details about the way things were when we were seeing each other before was that there were a couple of times that I kind of caught him off guard, like he wasn’t expecting to see me, and both times he just lit up.  It felt inconsistent with some other stuff, but those moments of lighting up felt real to me.  And I’m pretty pessimistic, I really don’t think ANY the probably 150 men that I’ve had dealings with since my ex wanted anything to really do with me beyond sex.  I don’t think a one of them could claim to have cared about me one bit.  Christ!  But in those moments I felt it from him. I think the inconsistency came from the fact that I was a lot to deal with and that I wasn’t emotionally available.  

In some instances, you felt like he cared about you, but on the whole, you believe that most men you've dealt with only wanted sex. Your own emotional unavailability and this inconsistency likely caused some of your relationship problems. Recall that you were ten minutes out of a 25 year marriage yourself.

He told you that his return to church was a factor in your incompatibility. It's unclear how much truth there is to that statement, but you acknowledge that your own disbelief in God may create difficulties in any future relationship with someone who places a strong emphasis on faith.

You hope that my previous statement is incorrect, but acknowledge that the chances are not great.

Despite that, you seem interested in seeing where this new development with Joe goes.

I took a closer look at what you have said and I think that it seems like you are trying to avoid regret by exploring the possibility before closing the door on it. Does any of that ring true?

[glows]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:00 PM, birdie_b said:

 We’ve only had sex once since reconnecting, but I’m so comfortable with him physically even when sex isn’t in the air, there’s been hardly a moment we’re not touching and it feels so healing to me.  Like I’ve been wanting forever to just have someone’s arms around me but when it happens, it’s not satisfying because I know it’s only for the moment and it’s really just physical.  But with him it doesn’t feel just physical, feels like he’s fully there with me.  I really think he’s in it with his heart and I haven’t felt that in a man for a long time.  
 

It makes me happy to know I can feel this way and someone can feel this way about me even if it doesn’t work as a relationship.  I think I need whatever this feeling is to even consider making someone my partner, so it is a huge relief to see that it’s possible.  

I don’t see what’s the issue. Enjoy the feeling and knowing there are different levels of care and affection. It’s not black and white: in a relationship /not in a relationship. This is something you’re experiencing right now and next month you may move onto something else or feel like you’re interested in a deeper connection with someone else who is more compatible. 

If anything it sounds like you’re reconnecting and making peace or coming full circle recognizing how far you’ve come in your divorce journey. If I hadn’t gone through it myself I’d not be recognizing it here. 

Enjoy.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

10 hours ago, birdie_b said:

But for now I’m spending time with someone I like and soaking up some much needed affection.

Just be careful that you're not getting too attached again. Otherwise you will find yourself paying a hefty emtional price for that affection.