I don't respect other people's things

[Whatitistoburn]

While getting ready to head over to the city to celebrate vday by having a romantic lunch at a nice resto and stay overnight at our condo, my husband said this to me after finding a small potted plant on top of the top portion of the printed draft on his table. I placed it there as I was rushing getting ready (which included moving some small plants out). He snapped and said that I don’t respect other people’s things. I said sorry and that I can easily reprint it for him. He was angry so I said I’ll move my stuff out of his home office (which we are currently sharing because we are both working on a project together). He followed me downstairs telling me I don’t have to move out of his office but that I dont respect other people’s things and said it again and again. I said Stop as I was close to crying feeling like an AWFUL person who don’t respect other people’s things. He got really angry and slammed the door.  I  told him he couldve just said that I don’t respect HIS things (as like he said, I have done this before to his notepads/notebook on his table even then I think I wasnt intentionally being disrepectful) but to accuse me of disrespecting “ people’s things”. I just feel like a really terrible human being right now. He apologized again but I am  so hurt right now. I feel like he is so angry with me deep down though he keeps telling me he loves me and wants us to keep trying and stay together. I know we have to talk these things through but though we are like bestfriends now, well, the fact that we are like the closest and the best of friends now probably makes us toxic for each other. We are probably just afraid of being alone / on our own without the other after being together and loving each other for almost 18 years. He strongly denies this and insists that we just have to try harder because what’s important is we genuinely love each other. I’m not sure if we are still  happy together though.

So today’s plan was cancelled. Thank you guys for reading my post after being absent in the forum for years. I hope your day is better. Happy Valentine’s Day!

Edited February 14, 2023 by Whatitistoburn
Fixed errors

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Whatitistoburn said:

While getting ready to head over to the city to celebrate vday by having a romantic lunch  

So today’s plan was cancelled. 

Sorry this happened. Do you feel he staged a fight deliberately in order to cancel? Is bickering a frequent problem in the marriage?

While being a little annoyed about his office is understandable, he seems to have made it into a character assassination and world war III. 

How is the marriage overall? The plants seem like a peripheral issue.

[JTSW]

Look, in all honesty here (and don't take offense because I mean no offence) it's understandable that he's angry.

You have numerously dumped something on things of his that are obviously important. 

It is honestly disrespectful.

You need to take more care with this because this time he snapped because he's fed up of it.

[Els]

2 hours ago, Whatitistoburn said:

I have done this before to his notepads/notebook on his table

I really don't understand why you would do this.

If this was your "first offense", I might be on your side and think that he's overreacting. But clearly, you have done this again and again. Why??? When you go to put a potted plant(!!) on top of a nice fresh sheet of printouts or a notebook... isn't there a voice inside you that says "that's not right?". I mean... with all due respect, I think most people start to learn this when they are 11 or 12yo. You just don't put soiled stuff on top of other people's books...

How would you feel if you laid out your nice dress for the evening on a sofa, and then he put a potted plant on it? Wouldn't you be upset?

[Whatitistoburn]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. Do you feel he staged a fight deliberately in order to cancel? Is bickering a frequent problem in the marriage?

While being a little annoyed about his office is understandable, he seems to have made it into a character assassination and world war III. 

How is the marriage overall? The plants seem like a peripheral issue.

Hello Wiseman2,

Thank you for responding. We do have a lot of issues within the marriage that we've been dealing with for years and years. More important issues like his health, ED, infertility, relocation to name a few. He admitted he didn't care too much for vday. He never really did except for when we were just dating. Today is a workday. We were rushing to get things done yesterday so we can clear the schedule today but he still had some other stuff that needed to be done this morning. Maybe he preferred to stay at home instead. I'd understand that. We really didnt have to do anything today to be honest.

 

[Whatitistoburn]

17 minutes ago, Els said:

I really don't understand why you would do this.

If this was your "first offense", I might be on your side and think that he's overreacting. But clearly, you have done this again and again. Why??? When you go to put a potted plant(!!) on top of a nice fresh sheet of printouts or a notebook... isn't there a voice inside you that says "that's not right?". I mean... with all due respect, I think most people start to learn this when they are 11 or 12yo. You just don't put soiled stuff on top of other people's books...

How would you feel if you laid out your nice dress for the evening on a sofa, and then he put a potted plant on it? Wouldn't you be upset?

I understand. I apologized. That other time I did it, I was actually cleaning his fish tank and medicating his sick fish. It was not my intention to put tongs and fish meds on his table next to his notepad.

Re the pot, it was a small indoor plastic pot. About 3in x 3in. It was also not intentional. We were rushing. I admit I am struggling keeping up with household chores. He helps sometimes but I am looking after 5 cats (2 of which are senior cats and 1 has a rare feline disease that needs regular meds and subq fluids) on top of cleaning a big house and now, I am back to being semi employed. I am not making excuses for my actions but I did not mean to be disrespectful. If this was because of me going through his notes from 10 years ago or less (which I posted here), I have apologized numerous times for that, too. Maybe he hasn't or will never forgive me for that. Hence, the declaration of my disrespect for other people's things. 

I think after all we've been through, I have already paid him enough for these sins.

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, Whatitistoburn said:

. He admitted he didn't care too much for vday. 

Unfortunately there's a lot of issues in your marriage that can lead to stress and bickering.

It does seem like he made a mountain out of a molehill in order to passive-aggressively stage an argument to cancel your plans.

Try to stay away from his office or personal space. That too can create stress. Especially if you are also using passive aggressive tactics (messing with his stuff) to express hostility 

Have you considered marriage therapy? Since there's so many underlying stressors, it may be good to get help in a professional, neutral setting.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Wiseman2

[SoulCat]

I find it quite telling that you made this incident all about you, and your feelings.
You were the one to disrespect your husband's things for the umpteenth time, and instead of giving your head a big wobble and taking steps to change your behaviour, you made it all about the semantics of his complaint, and your feelings.
It comes across as selfish, and having a very shallow understanding of how your thoughtless actions affect others.

Moving forward, try to improve your timing and organisational skills. Put things where they actually belong, not in some temporary place from which they'll have to be moved eventually anyway.
If you don't have the time to complete a task or chore, don't start it. Do something else, something that will fit in the timeframe available to you. Then you'll not be left with so many loose ends, unfinished jobs, and stuff in places where that stuff shouldn't be.
And avoid your husband's workspace unless invited or asked. Most people have some sort of system going and it's a real nuisance if it gets messed with.

Good luck.

[Whatitistoburn]

1 hour ago, JTSW said:

Look, in all honesty here (and don't take offense because I mean no offence) it's understandable that he's angry.

You have numerously dumped something on things of his that are obviously important. 

It is honestly disrespectful.

You need to take more care with this because this time he snapped because he's fed up of it.

I understand. I should know better. I'm almost 40. 

Intentional or not, he thought it was disrespectful. What he thought and how he felt about it is more important than whether I thought it was a big deal or not. 

He's done something similar to me in the past but I'd just gasp and scream to stop him and then laugh it off esp when there was no damage done. 

He's way more mature than me in so many aspects.

[Whatitistoburn]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately there's a lot of issues in your marriage that can lead to stress and bickering.

It does seem like he made a mountain out of a molehill in order to passive-aggressively stage an argument to cancel your plans.

Try to stay away from his office or personal space. That too can create stress. 

Have you considered marriage therapy? Since there's so many underlying stressors, it may be good to get help in a professional, neutral setting.

Thank you for advice I will stay away and move my stuff out. I think lockdown made things worse because we just felt trapped and since we're both introverts and not working, we didn't see people and socialize all that time. But yes, I will be mindful of his personal space and stay out of his office and his things. 

Yes, we considered that. I have also suggested separation many times. 

[JTSW]

17 minutes ago, Whatitistoburn said:

If this was because of me going through his notes from 10 years ago or less (which I posted here), I have apologized numerous times for that, too. Maybe he hasn't or will never forgive me for that.

Not sure what this is about as I haven't seen that post, but it seems that you have some trust issues.

[Whatitistoburn]

6 minutes ago, SoulCat said:

I find it quite telling that you made this incident all about you, and your feelings.
You were the one to disrespect your husband's things for the umpteenth time, and instead of giving your head a big wobble and taking steps to change your behaviour, you made it all about the semantics of his complaint, and your feelings.
It comes across as selfish, and having a very shallow understanding of how your thoughtless actions affect others.

Moving forward, try to improve your timing and organisational skills. Put things where they actually belong, not in some temporary place from which they'll have to be moved eventually anyway.
If you don't have the time to complete a task or chore, don't start it. Do something else, something that will fit in the timeframe available to you. Then you'll not be left with so many loose ends, unfinished jobs, and stuff in places where that stuff shouldn't be.
And avoid your husband's workspace unless invited or asked. Most people have some sort of system going and it's a real nuisance if it gets messed with.

Good luck.

I have my own room but he wants us to work side by side so he had me work in his office.

We have intimacy issues and he's trying to fix it by having us do things together and spending time together even when we're working.

Yes, I am very selfish. We've been through so much and I have become this person who's bitter, unkind and selfish. 

I have felt so insecure and old and ugly and unloved because we're in a sexless marriage.

I have devoted my time looking after my cats (and I had adopted many through the years some have passed)

All these have contributed to my depression.

I am working on myself and have taken mood stabilizers.

But I also think that my husband deserves better so I have suggested separation many times. 

[Whatitistoburn]

16 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Not sure what this is about as I haven't seen that post, but it seems that you have some trust issues.

This was years ago. I was young and naive. I found some old notes and journals while tidying up. Read some of them. I confessed and of course, he was angry about it. 

Yes, I did have trust issues. 

I think I was trying to find answers other than the fact that my husband may not be attracted to me anymore. I think we concluded that the major contributors to our dwindling sex life were alcohol, health and stress.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Whatitistoburn

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, Whatitistoburn said:

We have intimacy issues and he's trying to fix it by having us do things together and spending time together even when we're working.

As you have learned, spending 24/7 together is not particularly healthy for most couples either. Many people would find this quite stressful, and I would suggest that relationships tend to flourish when there is a balance of time together and a little bit of space.

Personally, I can’t imagine living and working with my spouse all day everyday… I love the guy, but…

I read your first few posts and thought - this is life. You are feeling overburdened and stressed and he has apparently been triggered and lost his cool. I would suggest that you could apologize and move on with life. But, it seems there are more issues in your marriage… The fact that you placed a plant on his papers is not the problem here. He has other resentments (as it would appear you do as well - not uncommon in a marriage, relationships can be frustrating at times) and you are not communicating well. Perhaps I missed it, but have you tried marriage counselling? 

I’m sorry this has happened, timing is poor. I hope you are able to talk it out and resolve the real issues here… 

Edited February 14, 2023 by BaileyB

[Lotsgoingon]

First thing that jumps out at me is your husband's overly broad statement, "You don't respect other people's things." In Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, they would label that phrase a major distortion. It's overgeneralizing, it's magnifying the negative. It's all or nothing thinking---so if you had placed the plant two inches away from the document, you're suddenly a caring person?

You guys are 18 years into a marriage. Well your husband is reckless and irresponsible and immature with words. 

To be fair and non toxic, he needs to be more specific. I feel like you don't respect my things SOMETIMES! But again "respect" is so broad. He can't be in your head and know how much you "respect" something. All he can just is the external behavior. I can respect someone's items and yet if I'm a messier person (which I tend to be) I may put an item where the other person doesn't want it.  But I may also look out for the other person's interests (and things) in all kinds of other ways. 

Better would have been "Hey, can you just double-check on where you are placing things like plants?" But once you say it that way--which is far more accurate btw--it's clear that he is massively, grossly over-reacting. 

The evidence that his words are way too broad (even toxic) is that you feel awful as a human being. Awful as a human being for placing a potted plant in a place he didn't like. Well Jeez, that makes you are murderer? The way you're feeling is the way people feel when they get into a car accident and someone dies. So your system of judging yourself is way way off as well. 

Yes, I would say to you to be careful about where you place things, but he definitely shamed you. And even if the shaming succeeds (the other person feels ashamed) shaming is toxic and deadly to a relationship. So my question to him would be, really is that what you are unhappy about? No way. There have to be other issues that he is unhappy about that he hasn't told you or that he is sitting on. All couples are out of sync on some issues--we are not clones, and even identical twins have differences. So you have to learn to speak to each other--to use his words--with respect! He's the one not respecting you. 

Printing things is easy these days. Easy! It's not like you spilled milk on a typewritten paper from the old days, which would require him to retype the entire document. 

There is no defense or excuse for his nasty words. When he does things without thinking carefully, do you say, "you don't care about smart thinking"?--Do you say that? When he is critical of someone you like, do you say to him, "You don't respect other people"? 

On your agenda, though, is buying into the shame. Feeling awful for placing a plant--come on now. You are allowed to be human. Is he the "serious" one in the relationship and you take the position of the "immature" (and messier) one? If so, you need to get out of that dynamic. The neater partner is not the better partner. The neater partner is just neater. You have areas where you think he falls short as well. Right? 

Something is up with the marriage. Or with his stress level at the moment. And something is up that you take his stupid words so seriously. 

Frankly, you getting angry and telling him (yelling even) to go self-pleasure himself would be a saner and healthier response than feeling like you're an awful human being. That way you can have the conflict out in the open. And you send a signal that you won't let him say such ridiculous, stupidly worded stuff to you without a strong response. He's talking with all the specificity and precision of a five-year-old. 

 

[ShyViolet]

If you've done this same thing many times, and he has told you countless times not to, but it still keeps happening, then I can understand his anger and I don't think he's overreacting.  I've been in a relationship with a person who was very lacking in responsibility and would keep doing the same things that I had asked them not to do, over and over and over.  It can feel like living with a child.  I simply couldn't tolerate it anymore.  This really shouldn't be a difficult thing to prevent from happening.

[LexImperialis]

He said all of this over a plant? A bit selfish of him. I think that's his way of only looking at himself or only seeing himself for himself.

He shouldn't have reacted to you like that. Getting angry, slamming the door and all that.

[basil67]

When he said that you don't respect other people's things, was it a false statement or is it true?  

If you borrow a book (or something else) from a friend would you return it promptly in the same condition that it was lent to you?  Or would it have a coffee mark, broken spine and be all bent in one corner?  Or perhaps you'd forget to return it at all?    Thing is, people are generally careful with things or they aren't.  It doesn't make sense that you'd be careful with other people's things but careless with your husband's things.  

[Lotsgoingon]

OP, tell us more.  We have some differing views here . I go one way (husband went ballistic and scattershot).  Others who I really respect here go another way (that you may need to up your carefulness and care of items).

Can you say more?

[Kassieee]

You didn't do any of that intentionally. 

He is overreacting. The way he followed you, and kept badgering you about "NoT REsPECTInG PPlz THinGZ" to the point you felt like crying ..and he couldnt stop himself on Vday- sounds like a manchild to me.

[Kassieee]

10 hours ago, LexImperialis said:

He said all of this over a plant? A bit selfish of him. I think that's his way of only looking at himself or only seeing himself for himself.

He shouldn't have reacted to you like that. Getting angry, slamming the door and all that.

That's the thing. It's over petty things.

Acting like she broke the damn plant. 

Its OK to feel annoyed but to react like that... anger management. 

[glows]

Curious here: why have any plants in his office if you’re the one exclusively caring for them and can you both agree to let him feed and medicate his own fish? You seem to be taking on too much. If he’s working that space is for work not decorative/distractions or for items needing frequently or daily attention. They can be left in the living room or kitchen or other spaces.

He was frustrated and I think it was made worse by your comment or response “I can easily reprint that for you” suggesting it’s no big deal and minimizing his feelings. You’re both bickering and dismissive of one another if you’re not valuing the things you’re both bringing to the relationship. When he reacted to your first comment you also overgeneralized and threatened to move everything out of the office. It’s not just him that’s the problem. I’m also puzzled why personal items like fish and plants are in the office when it’s just one project you’re working on together. Do you mean after the one project you move the things out? Focus on the work and not trying to make work like home even if it’s a home office. Some clear boundaries in the work space are needed - a separation between living space outside and work space meaning work.

If they are his fish let him deal with his own fish. He may realize keeping fish is not for him if he cannot spend the time maintaining the tank or its occupants.

I’m sorry your Vday was like this. It sounds like he still wants the marriage. I suggest better boundaries and creating clear space between living and work area. Don’t take on more than you need to and if he wants pets he’ll have to care for them too. 

 

 

[stillafool]

On 2/14/2023 at 5:35 AM, Whatitistoburn said:

I think after all we've been through, I have already paid him enough for these sins.

Not really because you continue to make them.  The crying over this was a bit of an over reaction.  Just be more mindful.

[Whatitistoburn]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:37 AM, Lotsgoingon said:

First thing that jumps out at me is your husband's overly broad statement, "You don't respect other people's things." In Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, they would label that phrase a major distortion. It's overgeneralizing, it's magnifying the negative. It's all or nothing thinking---so if you had placed the plant two inches away from the document, you're suddenly a caring person?

You guys are 18 years into a marriage. Well your husband is reckless and irresponsible and immature with words. 

To be fair and non toxic, he needs to be more specific. I feel like you don't respect my things SOMETIMES! But again "respect" is so broad. He can't be in your head and know how much you "respect" something. All he can just is the external behavior. I can respect someone's items and yet if I'm a messier person (which I tend to be) I may put an item where the other person doesn't want it.  But I may also look out for the other person's interests (and things) in all kinds of other ways. 

Better would have been "Hey, can you just double-check on where you are placing things like plants?" But once you say it that way--which is far more accurate btw--it's clear that he is massively, grossly over-reacting. 

The evidence that his words are way too broad (even toxic) is that you feel awful as a human being. Awful as a human being for placing a potted plant in a place he didn't like. Well Jeez, that makes you are murderer? The way you're feeling is the way people feel when they get into a car accident and someone dies. So your system of judging yourself is way way off as well. 

Yes, I would say to you to be careful about where you place things, but he definitely shamed you. And even if the shaming succeeds (the other person feels ashamed) shaming is toxic and deadly to a relationship. So my question to him would be, really is that what you are unhappy about? No way. There have to be other issues that he is unhappy about that he hasn't told you or that he is sitting on. All couples are out of sync on some issues--we are not clones, and even identical twins have differences. So you have to learn to speak to each other--to use his words--with respect! He's the one not respecting you. 

Printing things is easy these days. Easy! It's not like you spilled milk on a typewritten paper from the old days, which would require him to retype the entire document. 

There is no defense or excuse for his nasty words. When he does things without thinking carefully, do you say, "you don't care about smart thinking"?--Do you say that? When he is critical of someone you like, do you say to him, "You don't respect other people"? 

On your agenda, though, is buying into the shame. Feeling awful for placing a plant--come on now. You are allowed to be human. Is he the "serious" one in the relationship and you take the position of the "immature" (and messier) one? If so, you need to get out of that dynamic. The neater partner is not the better partner. The neater partner is just neater. You have areas where you think he falls short as well. Right? 

Something is up with the marriage. Or with his stress level at the moment. And something is up that you take his stupid words so seriously. 

Frankly, you getting angry and telling him (yelling even) to go self-pleasure himself would be a saner and healthier response than feeling like you're an awful human being. That way you can have the conflict out in the open. And you send a signal that you won't let him say such ridiculous, stupidly worded stuff to you without a strong response. He's talking with all the specificity and precision of a five-year-old. 

 

Thank you for this. Funny enough, after he followed me to keep telling me I don't respect other people's things and after I told him to stop because I get it and I feel horrible already, he was the one who then said to go self-pleasure myself as he walked out and slammed the door. There are so many issues in our marriage and right now, I am really struggle. Thank you for understanding and sympathizing with me. 

[Whatitistoburn]

12 hours ago, glows said:

Curious here: why have any plants in his office if you’re the one exclusively caring for them and can you both agree to let him feed and medicate his own fish? You seem to be taking on too much. If he’s working that space is for work not decorative/distractions or for items needing frequently or daily attention. They can be left in the living room or kitchen or other spaces.

He was frustrated and I think it was made worse by your comment or response “I can easily reprint that for you” suggesting it’s no big deal and minimizing his feelings. You’re both bickering and dismissive of one another if you’re not valuing the things you’re both bringing to the relationship. When he reacted to your first comment you also overgeneralized and threatened to move everything out of the office. It’s not just him that’s the problem. I’m also puzzled why personal items like fish and plants are in the office when it’s just one project you’re working on together. Do you mean after the one project you move the things out? Focus on the work and not trying to make work like home even if it’s a home office. Some clear boundaries in the work space are needed - a separation between living space outside and work space meaning work.

If they are his fish let him deal with his own fish. He may realize keeping fish is not for him if he cannot spend the time maintaining the tank or its occupants.

I’m sorry your Vday was like this. It sounds like he still wants the marriage. I suggest better boundaries and creating clear space between living and work area. Don’t take on more than you need to and if he wants pets he’ll have to care for them too. 

 

 

This is actually spot on. We talked about what happened and he explained it exactly how you did. He said it wasnt the act itself that angered him but what I said when I was confronted which was minimizing the situation so I can get out of it. And I agree, I overgeneralized but that was exactly how his words made me feel. I took offence and I couldn't accept that that was how he sees me. He told me that that room was his ONLY personal space in the house which is NOT TRUE. After he declared that, I said to him how this is the reason why I did not want to be in that office. He is giving up on the fish so I offered on taking them and moving them out to the spare room downstairs. He said NO. 

We have so much baggage and most days, it's a struggle. We are not happy anymore.