Third time the charm?

[stillafool]

50 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He most recently has said he doesn’t know if he has ever been happy with anything in his life. Some martial complaints post DDay were lack of physical intimacy, not feeling valued or appreciated (yeah buddy neither did I), lack of compatibility (which was never a problem pre affair). 

Sexual compatiblity ranks high in long term relationships and marriage.  It sounds like you two were never compatible in that area.  That's major important to men.  Not that it's your fault or his for that matter.

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

 His choices are why [our] marriage is broken.

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He most recently has said he doesn’t know if he has ever been happy with anything in his life. Some martial complaints post DDay were lack of physical intimacy, not feeling valued or appreciated (yeah buddy neither did I), lack of compatibility (which was never a problem pre affair). 

 

I'm not saying you should stay with him, that's up to you. But consider that there's a lot more to the "brokenness" that just his decisions. I would think you'd actually need to listen to these issues - just because you weren't feeling them doesn't mean he wasn't. Otherwise - is this just railroading him into staying over fear of losing his family?

I think there's a tendency on the part of BS's to focus on their own distress. Very understandable, but not necessarily very constructive long term if they don't also consider how their partner may have been feeling in the marriage absent an AP. Or is this just temporary anger talking.

People love to "bash the cheater" but a truth here is that he found a way he could stay married to you AND be happier than he was. One way to look at this is that "his choices" kept the marriage intact (albeit not in the most positive, honest, or ultimately beneficial way). By your own admission you were fine with the way things were, and if he hadn't gotten caught again you'd probably be fine still. He chose not to leave.

At the risk of reiterating, I think the secret to preventing this happening again while actually staying married is to ensure you're both genuinely happy. It's probably going to require some changes on both your parts.

It's also possible he has some minor mental health issues, such as mild depression, although that's not something that can be determined over a chat board.

Edited February 18, 2023 by mark clemson

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

When I found out again in Sept 2022, her husband said they were divorcing but I don’t know 100% if they did. 1) should I try to find that out? And 2) How could I find that out? Our MC suggested early on in counseling that their marriage is irrelevant in ours from here on out. 

She and her marriage are indeed irrelevant to you and (supposedly) to your husband.  

[Hopefullyjaded9]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

Sexual compatiblity ranks high in long term relationships and marriage.  It sounds like you two were never compatible in that area.  That's major important to men.  Not that it's your fault or his for that matter.

We are working on that in MC. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 

I'm not saying you should stay with him, that's up to you. But consider that there's a lot more to the "brokenness" that just his decisions. I would think you'd actually need to listen to these issues - just because you weren't feeling them doesn't mean he wasn't. Otherwise - is this just railroading him into staying over fear of losing his family?

I think there's a tendency on the part of BS's to focus on their own distress. Very understandable, but not necessarily very constructive long term if they don't also consider how their partner may have been feeling in the marriage absent an AP. Or is this just temporary anger talking.

People love to "bash the cheater" but a truth here is that he found a way he could stay married to you AND be happier than he was. One way to look at this is that "his choices" kept the marriage intact (albeit not in the most positive, honest, or ultimately beneficial way). By your own admission you were fine with the way things were, and if he hadn't gotten caught again you'd probably be fine still. He chose not to leave.

At the risk of reiterating, I think the secret to preventing this happening again while actually staying married is to ensure you're both genuinely happy. It's probably going to require some changes on both your parts.

It's also possible he has some minor mental health issues, such as mild depression, although that's not something that can be determined over a chat board.

Hmm interesting perspective. Not sure I agree that an affair is ever preserving a marriage though. It only destroys it. If he was unhappy he should have dealt with it years ago. Now we have to deal with the affair before those things can even be addressed and it is hard for me to be sympathetic to his needs after what he did to me. 
 

I did feel genuinely happy in the past and hope I can moving forward with him. If he can work on himself I think he may be able to be as well 

[BaileyB]

If I may, the other poster I would suggest you read is Bittersweetie. I was trying today to remember her name. She was a married woman who cheated - her husband did not divorce her because she did the work. Would be interesting to read some of her posts and compare to what your husband has shared with you.

Edited February 19, 2023 by BaileyB

[Alpacalia]

Someone close to me experienced something very similar, albeit with a few different woman. I essentially said to her that, if you choose to stay with him, you do realize that you are basically accepting the fact that you are going to be in an open marriage essentially, don't you? In spite of the good times they have together, she is always seeing to it that he is doing what he says. Keeping him away from certain websites. In a sense, it's like a watchdog.

Nothing can convince you otherwise if you want that kind of life and marriage for yourself.

[RebeccaR]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:20 AM, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

His affair was a result of his personal issues more than our marital issue according to what his therapist told him. 

I was rereading the thread from the beginning and saw this again. While not discounting the therapist, it seems you had significant marital issues even before the affair. Not sure how the therapist determined this.

Also, do you know for sure when the original affair started, or if he had others previously? The generalized “relationship struggles” may have been related to an affair happening earlier that you don’t even know about. Was there a time you had a really good marriage, and if so, when did that change?

Honestly, a guy with personal unresolved trauma, a history of longtime affairs, other marriage incompatibilities - I know he is your husband, but you are still a young woman and you can do better. I guess you are worried about the social impacts of divorce and what people will say, but it’s not worth living the next 40 years with this guy when you never had a great marriage in the first place. I agree that fear of the unknown is paralyzing you and keeping you in a marriage where you will have to police your husband and wonder where he is every time he’s late. That’s a hard life.

[RebeccaR]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:24 AM, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

To end the marriage would be on me and I just don’t think I am there right now. 

No, it’s 100% on him for cheating, especially the second time after he promised things would change. I don’t know how he convinced you that ending the marriage would be your fault.

[RebeccaR]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:00 AM, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

His little mistress was just waiting it out thinking I would leave him if I found out again.  Worst case, I reconcile then divorce in a few years when the kids are older if the relationship isn’t working for me. In the meantime, our kids have both parents, their lives are not disrupted, I can add more years to marriage for alimony, and the OW slithers away knowing he dumped her and that it wasn’t true love like they always claim it to be.

Rereading - it looks like it’s very important to you to not let her “win”. Remember this isn’t a contest, he’s not a prize, and playing “pick me” is degrading. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

No, it’s 100% on him for cheating, especially the second time after he promised things would change. I don’t know how he convinced you that ending the marriage would be your fault.

I should clarify that. He didn’t convince me of that. What that statement meant was that he will not be the one now to say “I want a divorce.” He promised myself and the kids that he would spend the rest of his life making it up to us. If we divorce it will be because I initiate it but yes the cheating is what would be responsible for really getting us there. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

11 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I was rereading the thread from the beginning and saw this again. While not discounting the therapist, it seems you had significant marital issues even before the affair. Not sure how the therapist determined this.

Also, do you know for sure when the original affair started, or if he had others previously? The generalized “relationship struggles” may have been related to an affair happening earlier that you don’t even know about. Was there a time you had a really good marriage, and if so, when did that change?

Honestly, a guy with personal unresolved trauma, a history of longtime affairs, other marriage incompatibilities - I know he is your husband, but you are still a young woman and you can do better. I guess you are worried about the social impacts of divorce and what people will say, but it’s not worth living the next 40 years with this guy when you never had a great marriage in the first place. I agree that fear of the unknown is paralyzing you and keeping you in a marriage where you will have to police your husband and wonder where he is every time he’s late. That’s a hard life.

I am almost 100% sure I know when the original affair started. That timeline was established after the first discovery and all matches up with evidence. 
 

I would say that our first 5 years were really good years IMO. We married very quickly after meeting and had our first child right away. We were head over heels in love. Probably having small children and life took its toll like many couples. The sexually misalignment was an issue for a long time. I can really take it or leave it and he has a much higher drive. I would try to meet him in the middle but it never seemed good enough for him so he would help himself when needed. 
 

He vehemently denies any other affairs. Says this was the one and only. I am not sure I believe that though. I caught in him some lies earlier in our marriage like being in a different place than I thought for his job and driving a woman home from a work dinner. He fessed up each time and apologized for not being truthful and said he didn’t know why he lied because he had no reason to. So yes there are trust issues for a long time but he has sworn in counseling this was the first and only affair. He knows he had to go full disclosure or working on our relationship couldn’t happen. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

18 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Rereading - it looks like it’s very important to you to not let her “win”. Remember this isn’t a contest, he’s not a prize, and playing “pick me” is degrading. 

He picked me already. I am not ashamed to admit that anything that brings her some pain and rejection makes me feel like she is getting what she deserved trying to poach another woman’s husband and one with children no less. 

[RebeccaR]

18 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He picked me already. I am not ashamed to admit that anything that brings her some pain and rejection makes me feel like she is getting what she deserved trying to poach another woman’s husband and one with children no less. 

I’m just worried that your victory over her may be pyrrhic given he doesn’t have what it takes to be a good husband.

[stillafool]

13 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

We are working on that in MC. 

How can people work on sexual compatibility?  You can compromise but no doctor or therapist can make you compatible.  It's a sexual chemistry between 2 people and you either have it or you don't.

[Will am I]

I hate to say it, but what Rebecca is saying makes so much sense. If you step back and consider everything from a distance, this man may not be the man you want for life.

I respect that you currently hang on to your marriage, but I encourage you to focus on those things that establish you as the woman you want to be. Whether with or without him.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

How can people work on sexual compatibility?  You can compromise but no doctor or therapist can make you compatible.  It's a sexual chemistry between 2 people and you either have it or you don't.

What do you mean by sexual compatibility? Our main issue is different libidos. When we are together it is perfectly fine. And there are plenty of strategies to use to improve sexual intimacy in relationship.

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

How can people work on sexual compatibility? mismatched be sexual libidos?

Especially given the following statement - 

Quote

Our physical intimacy is completely determined by my needs and wants. I no longer feel any wifely obligation and zero guilt for not meeting his needs there.

This doesn’t sound like you are really interested in working on anything. It sounds like you have decided to do exactly as you like - and he can deal with it. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by BaileyB

[glows]

The 6 years he was involved with the same person would be a concern to me. This wasn’t a fling or someone he leaned on during a brief struggle not that it’s any lesser or less difficult to deal with. He was involved with another woman for quite awhile and it’s possible his love or care and affection for her transcends any discrimination or judgment from society, yourself or others. He was able to do that for years and share intimate moments with her which would speak a lot to his affection in many ways. 

It’s common to find solace in feeling picked or vindicated. I don’t blame you for that and reads to me as a sign of shock and trying to recover from pain and shock. You’re responding to initial reactions of relief but haven’t reached the point where you’re the one doing the “picking” and figuring out whether he’s the type of man who can be the husband you want. There’s a lot of change needed on his part and you’re undecided, feeling vindicated and like you’ve won because he picked you. Yet, again, that long standing affection for many years seems like it would haunt any relationship or marriage. He was with her for some time and I wouldn’t doubt they’re still good friends or he may meet her again.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

3 minutes ago, Will am I said:

I hate to say it, but what Rebecca is saying makes so much sense. If you step back and consider everything from a distance, this man may not be the man you want for life.

I respect that you currently hang on to your marriage, but I encourage you to focus on those things that establish you as the woman you want to be. Whether with or without him.

I am the woman I want to be. If he can be the man that he wants to be and the man that I know he was and can be then we can have a great future. I know deep down I would be fine without him but I love him and am hopeful that he/we can make changes. I have read some posts that were suggested and there are people who betrayed their spouses and then figured out their why, made changes, and rebuilt a new relationship. That is what I am hoping for. That was the point of my OP. To hear that it was possible even if not probable. Not to be repetitive but we never did any real work after the first DDay. We are finally working on our marital issues and ourselves. That changes things in my opinion and the result may change as well. If anything comes out that he is speaking to another woman or lying again then it is over. 

[BrinnM]

I believe that people do what they want to do, and no therapy can change that. If you want to spend time & money on therapy, then go for it. But it can’t change what somebody wants. 

[stillafool]

5 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

What do you mean by sexual compatibility? Our main issue is different libidos. When we are together it is perfectly fine. And there are plenty of strategies to use to improve sexual intimacy in relationship.

Different libidos means you aren't compatible.  The OW is probably hot for him all the time.  That's like a magnetic pull for them.  I think it would be less destructivefor your marriage if your husband had had multiple affairs.  At least then it would seem his affairs were more about sex than sex combined with a deep emotional connection which can make you fall in love.

 

 

 

[RebeccaR]

3 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

I am the woman I want to be. If he can be the man that he wants to be and the man that I know he was and can be then we can have a great future. I know deep down I would be fine without him but I love him and am hopeful that he/we can make changes. I have read some posts that were suggested and there are people who betrayed their spouses and then figured out their why, made changes, and rebuilt a new relationship. That is what I am hoping for. That was the point of my OP. To hear that it was possible even if not probable. Not to be repetitive but we never did any real work after the first DDay. We are finally working on our marital issues and ourselves. That changes things in my opinion and the result may change as well. If anything comes out that he is speaking to another woman or lying again then it is over. 

If you felt he was truly invested in doing the work, you wouldn’t be posting here, especially since it has already been months since discovery. I think you are seeing behaviors or attitudes that make you doubt either his sincerity or his ability to overcome the issues that led to infidelity in the first place. 

[Weezy1973]

3 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

.We are finally working on our marital issues and ourselves.

What are you working on about yourself?

I think the sexual incompatibility is a big deal. And that actually lies on him because he probably downplayed his dissatisfaction with it. 
 

But I do commend you for fighting to keep the marriage together. But,  you may be fighting a losing battle. It’s possible that your incompatibilities are too great. The speed at which the relationship started and had kids suggests that the time needed to assess incompatibilities over time wasn’t there. And he was likely “acting” like he was okay with it for the family. If the marriage and kids had been put off for longer - it’s likely you never  would have stayed together.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Especially given the following statement - 

This doesn’t sound like you are really interested in working on anything. It sounds like you have decided to do exactly as you like - and he can deal with it. 

We are working on me feeling safe again in relationship. Being physically intimate brings up a lot of triggers for me of picturing him with the OW. For me to feel safe, it has to be on my terms vs doing it for him. I don’t have the generosity right now to do anything for him but am working to improve that as he regains my trust and respect. Having to go get STD testing as a married woman following your husband’s affair is so traumatic. When he kisses me I imagine him kissing her. Doing other things to her. Some days when we are very connected I can forget about that but on days that I can’t, trying to have sex would make it worse.