Third time the charm?

[Hopefullyjaded9]

10 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

I believe that people do what they want to do, and no therapy can change that. If you want to spend time & money on therapy, then go for it. But it can’t change what somebody wants. 

He doesn’t want to be the type of person to cheat anymore. It was a maladaptive coping strategy. He doesn’t want her anymore and realizes it was what she represented and what was missing in him. Can’t people realize that what they wanted is not what they want anymore? What is wants is to be a good husband and father. What he wants is to have his family’s respect. What he wants is a solid marriage. He always wanted that but didn’t do the things needed to have that. Now his actions need to match. To have what he wants he needs to behave differently and make different choices. It took almost losing that to make him realize what he really valued. The affair was an escape and an extra. Not what he really wanted. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

16 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

If you felt he was truly invested in doing the work, you wouldn’t be posting here, especially since it has already been months since discovery. I think you are seeing behaviors or attitudes that make you doubt either his sincerity or his ability to overcome the issues that led to infidelity in the first place. 

From most things I have read, reconciliation takes years. We are only 5 months in. I am not seeing behaviors or attitudes that make me question him right now. He has been doing everything right this time but this is not a quick fix and I know that. It is a very hard process with so many ups and downs. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

29 minutes ago, glows said:

The 6 years he was involved with the same person would be a concern to me. This wasn’t a fling or someone he leaned on during a brief struggle not that it’s any lesser or less difficult to deal with. He was involved with another woman for quite awhile and it’s possible his love or care and affection for her transcends any discrimination or judgment from society, yourself or others. He was able to do that for years and share intimate moments with her which would speak a lot to his affection in many ways. 

It’s common to find solace in feeling picked or vindicated. I don’t blame you for that and reads to me as a sign of shock and trying to recover from pain and shock. You’re responding to initial reactions of relief but haven’t reached the point where you’re the one doing the “picking” and figuring out whether he’s the type of man who can be the husband you want. There’s a lot of change needed on his part and you’re undecided, feeling vindicated and like you’ve won because he picked you. Yet, again, that long standing affection for many years seems like it would haunt any relationship or marriage. He was with her for some time and I wouldn’t doubt they’re still good friends or he may meet her again.

His affection for her didn’t transcend though. When given the choice, he did not want to relationship to be seen in the light of day. It was only meant to be a secret relationship. 
 

I like your suggestion of thinking of it more as me picking him. I do pick him but probably not as he is now but more who I hope he can be with getting the therapy he is now. Maybe that is my biggest mistake. Hoping he will go back to the man I met or turn into someone he isn’t capable of being. If I were to have to decide right now, no I probably wouldn’t pick him. Perhaps that is why I am just waiting it out which is giving away my own power. Great things to think about. 
 

And yes the relationship haunts me. He says is no longer haunts him but I don’t know what else he could say. Six years is a very long time with someone either way. It was almost half of my youngest daughter’s life and as another poster said almost 1/3 of my marriage. Even typing that out makes me sick. I almost have to block that out to move forward though and just look at the now and future. 

[Will am I]

Personally I love this hopeful attitude @Hopefullyjaded9
 

And it is true: where there is a will there is a way.

What makes it so complicated is that what needs to be done for  a better future may deviate  from your sense of righteousness.

Like: he was the one wrecking the marriage by cheating. But you may find the both of you making changes to accommodate the other. That may not feel right, after all he’s the one who caused all this.

Accomodating him without feeling resentful might be a challenge.

[stillafool]

11 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He doesn’t want to be the type of person to cheat anymore. It was a maladaptive coping strategy. He doesn’t want her anymore and realizes it was what she represented and what was missing in him. Can’t people realize that what they wanted is not what they want anymore? What is wants is to be a good husband and father. What he wants is to have his family’s respect. What he wants is a solid marriage. He always wanted that but didn’t do the things needed to have that. Now his actions need to match. To have what he wants he needs to behave differently and make different choices. It took almost losing that to make him realize what he really value.

Wasn't this what he was trying to do the first time he got caught with her and it failed.  He went back.  He may want to be the man you and his kids want him to be but his heart won't let him.

[Alpacalia]

Once could be an anomaly, twice is a pattern and the third time is probably right around the corner if in fact it hasn’t happened already.

Your initial ultimatum didn't work out as you had hoped.

Now the 2nd ultimatum involves your own children.

What made him not feel guilty about violating his own moral code the first time? What is his true attitude toward remorse or is he trying to manage the repercussions of his choices? (Feel ashamed of himself?) Everything hinders on this. If he’s ashamed of himself and is working to address all his inner flaws so he can be proud of himself again, there’s hope. But if he’s just doing what he has to do to manage your feelings so he can keep his marriage, stop trying. This will never work.

Trust cannot be won; it must be built. Once it’s broken it takes a lot of work to restore. It’s not on you to find trust for him. It’s up to him to prove he can be consistent and predictable. His honesty and his follow-through take years and years. Years without lying. Years of being transparent. Any screw up and it will set you back.

In time, he will reveal if he is not truly remorseful. It gets old for them to pay the price for their actions. It doesn't change. It's not possible for them to rebuild trust. And the process of reconciling the relationship is hell for the betrayed spouse.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

2 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Personally I love this hopeful attitude @Hopefullyjaded9
 

And it is true: where there is a will there is a way.

What makes it so complicated is that what needs to be done for  a better future may deviate  from your sense of righteousness.

Like: he was the one wrecking the marriage by cheating. But you may find the both of you making changes to accommodate the other. That may not feel right, after all he’s the one who caused all this.

Accomodating him without feeling resentful might be a challenge.

Thank you for this. I know most people think I am naive and stupid for staying with him. It is part of the shame of being a BS who doesn’t pick divorce. 
 

Accommodating him without feeling resentful is a huge challenge for me. You are very insightful. Both my IC and MC have brought this up and I am trying to let that resentment go. There is still so much anger that it can be very hard at times. This may never go away completely but each time he genuinely sees my pain and acknowledges it and listens and apologizes it gets a little better.  

[Hopefullyjaded9]

2 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Right. That’s what I’m trying to say. If not “forced” (into MC and whatnot), he would choose otherwise. Like he did before, when the pressure was low to non-existing.  
And no - I’m not saying he won’t stick with it from now on, he might. But is he in it with his heart and soul? That’s what I’d want to know. External factors (pressure) vs. what his heart wants 

I guess he is the only one who could truthfully answer this. I only know what he tells me and the counselor. But the reality is we never really can know inside someone else’s heart. 

[BaileyB]

13 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

His affection for her didn’t transcend though. When given the choice, he did not want to relationship to be seen in the light of day. It was only meant to be a secret relationship. 

I understand why you want to believe this, I don’t believe this to be true. His reasons for choosing his marriage and not his affair partner when the relationship was discovered and she was “available” to him are likely very complex. She may have been “available” to him but she wasn’t really “an option” for him - given all the reasons we’ve previously discussed. He undoubtedly had strong feelings for the woman - one does not stay in a relationship for six years without developing/having strong feelings for the other - but he was not about to chose her and lose his relationship with his children, half his assets, the respect of his family and friends. He did a cost benefit analysis and the benefit of choosing her was not worth the cost of ending his marriage. Which is when the excuses started to come out - she is not someone I would chose to be with, she is a woman of poor morals, not to be trusted, this relationship was not one for the light of day. 

There was one quote I stumbled upon yesterday which to me, sums up this whole discussion. 

The “split-self” affair is generally a man living a double life, who values the comfort and appearance of a long-term marriage but also has a mistress, maybe even another family. We give a “poor” prognosis for resolving issues that come out of these affairs, but a “low” probability of divorce – perhaps the most depressing combination.

http://savannahellis.net/the-split-self-affair/

Edited February 19, 2023 by BaileyB

[Hopefullyjaded9]

15 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Once could be an anomaly, twice is a pattern and the third time is probably right around the corner if in fact it hasn’t happened already.

Your initial ultimatum didn't work out as you had hoped.

Now the 2nd ultimatum involves your own children.

What made him not feel guilty about violating his own moral code the first time? What is his true attitude toward remorse or is he trying to manage the repercussions of his choices? (Feel ashamed of himself?) Everything hinders on this. If he’s ashamed of himself and is working to address all his inner flaws so he can be proud of himself again, there’s hope. But if he’s just doing what he has to do to manage your feelings so he can keep his marriage, stop trying. This will never work.

Trust cannot be won; it must be built. Once it’s broken it takes a lot of work to restore. It’s not on you to find trust for him. It’s up to him to prove he can be consistent and predictable. His honesty and his follow-through take years and years. Years without lying. Years of being transparent. Any screw up and it will set you back.

In time, he will reveal if he is not truly remorseful. It gets old for them to pay the price for their actions. It doesn't change. It's not possible for them to rebuild trust. And the process of reconciling the relationship is hell for the betrayed spouse.

Thank you for this. I totally agree with what you said about trust. This is why I feel like I need to give it time. To see if he continues ti be honest, transparent and consistent. For right now, I am open to giving him the time to prove that. And yes any breech is not only a setback but also a potential deal breaker. I just can’t keep doing this. It is his job to win the trust back. 
 

I believe he is truly remorseful and not just trying to manage the repercussions. He was like that the first time. This time is truly ashamed having seen the looks in his children’s eyes. He wants to be a man they can look up to and trust which is why is working so hard on himself. Remember this is a man who always said therapist were quacks and bullshitters. Didn’t believe in IC or MC. Now he has a completely different outlook and wants to change and be happy and proud of himself. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

15 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I understand why you want to believe this, I don’t believe this to be true. His reasons for choosing his marriage and not his affair partner when the relationship was discovered and she was “available” to him are likely very complex. She may have been “available” to him but she wasn’t really “an option” for him - given all the reasons we’ve previously discussed. He undoubtedly had strong feelings for the woman - one does not stay in a relationship for six years without developing/having strong feelings for the other - but he was not about to chose her and lose his relationship with his children, half his assets, the respect of his family and friends. He did a cost benefit analysis and the benefit of choosing her was not worth the cost of ending his marriage. Which is when the excuses started to come out - she is not someone I would chose to be with, she is a woman of poor morals, not to be trusted, this relationship was not one for the light of day. 

There was one quote I stumbled upon yesterday which to me, sums up this whole discussion. 

The “split-self” affair is generally a man living a double life, who values the comfort and appearance of a long-term marriage but also has a mistress, maybe even another family. We give a “poor” prognosis for resolving issues that come out of these affairs, but a “low” probability of divorce – perhaps the most depressing combination.

http://savannahellis.net/the-split-self-affair/

Yes she was not worth choosing to end his marriage. And since he chose the marriage, he now wants to work on making that marriage a good one for both of us.  I want that too. I get that the prognosis is poor but what else is there to do? Either 1) work on it to see how it goes or 2) get divorced? I am going the route of picking 1 knowing 2 is always a possibility should it not work. 

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

I believe he is truly remorseful. He wants to be a man they can look up to and trust which is why is working so hard on himself. He wants to change and be happy and proud of himself. 

For your sake and the sake of your children, I hope this turns out to be true. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by BaileyB

[Hopefullyjaded9]

20 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I understand why you want to believe this, I don’t believe this to be true. His reasons for choosing his marriage and not his affair partner when the relationship was discovered and she was “available” to him are likely very complex. She may have been “available” to him but she wasn’t really “an option” for him - given all the reasons we’ve previously discussed. He undoubtedly had strong feelings for the woman - one does not stay in a relationship for six years without developing/having strong feelings for the other - but he was not about to chose her and lose his relationship with his children, half his assets, the respect of his family and friends. He did a cost benefit analysis and the benefit of choosing her was not worth the cost of ending his marriage. Which is when the excuses started to come out - she is not someone I would chose to be with, she is a woman of poor morals, not to be trusted, this relationship was not one for the light of day. 

There was one quote I stumbled upon yesterday which to me, sums up this whole discussion. 

The “split-self” affair is generally a man living a double life, who values the comfort and appearance of a long-term marriage but also has a mistress, maybe even another family. We give a “poor” prognosis for resolving issues that come out of these affairs, but a “low” probability of divorce – perhaps the most depressing combination.

http://savannahellis.net/the-split-self-affair/

Yes she was not worth choosing to end his marriage. And since he chose the marriage, he now wants to work on making that marriage a good one for both of us.  I want that too. I get that the prognosis is poor but what else is there to do? Either 1) work on it to see how it goes or 2) get divorced? I am going the route of picking 1 knowing 2 is always a possibility should it not work. 

[Will am I]

11 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Thank you for this. I know most people think I am naive and stupid for staying with him

A lot of people take a hardline stance on this topic.

Maybe my wife is naive and stupid for being with me. I like to think otherwise. She’s a smart and rational person.

Key is: looking forward, do you see a future together (where you can feel happy and respected and trust him not to hurt you again)? And looking back, can you forgive him and let the resentment go?

If you can answer yes on both, nothing should stand in your way. But they are nit easy questions, neither of the two.

 

[Alpacalia]

29 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Thank you for this. I totally agree with what you said about trust. This is why I feel like I need to give it time. To see if he continues ti be honest, transparent and consistent. For right now, I am open to giving him the time to prove that. And yes any breech is not only a setback but also a potential deal breaker. I just can’t keep doing this. It is his job to win the trust back. 
 

I believe he is truly remorseful and not just trying to manage the repercussions. He was like that the first time. This time is truly ashamed having seen the looks in his children’s eyes. He wants to be a man they can look up to and trust which is why is working so hard on himself. Remember this is a man who always said therapist were quacks and bullshitters. Didn’t believe in IC or MC. Now he has a completely different outlook and wants to change and be happy and proud of himself. 

I wish you luck, I really do.

I don't necessarily view you as naive or stupid for staying with a partner who has cheated on you twice. People choose to stay in relationships for many reasons, and it is not always a straightforward decision.

It is a traumatic experience, and I hope that you are taking the time to reflect on what you want and need in a relationship, I mean REALLY taking the time and to consider whether staying with him is consistent with those values.

Ultimately, the decision to stay or leave is a personal one, and it is important to do what feels right for you, regardless of what others may think or say.

[spiritedaway2003]

If you are looking for "success" stories of reconciliation, they are out there.  I like the posts by heartwhole2. 

I happened to see a quote today, "Life's like a movie. Write your own ending!" - Kermit the frog.  That is true.  How you and your husband decide to move forward s  a choice.  The work to deal with the trauma is inescapable, regardless of whether you decide to stay or separate. 

I will say this -- which I think the crux of the discussion - is about the "motivations" for reconciliation:

If your "primary" motivation for staying is see how he fixes himself (rather than working alongside to restore trust together, even if he was the one who screwed it up), then your hope of "building a new marriage" is DOA.  If you are staying because he's on the hot seat (effort needs to come from him now), or you're biding time to shore up resources or until your kids are grown, then you have to ask yourself if those are better reasons than his reasons for staying?   Are his reasons for staying internal or external?  Is he staying because he doesn't want to be judged for being "that guy" (cheater/ego/reputation), not wanting to "lose" his kids, or losing the stability/comfort of being married?  For some people, those are "good enough" reasons to stay to keep the family unit intact.  For others, that's not what marriage is about.  Both has their merits. I'm generally of the opinion that a "marriage" is no longer a marriage if those are the "primary" motivations for staying together.

I agree with something @Will am I said up-thread. The "work" will take longer than the affair itself. I'll share from the other side of the coin.  I was once involved in a short (highly emotional but non-sexual) affair, as an OW.  It was short but it was also the type that was hardest to recover from. We fell in love. Neither of us have any history of infidelity.  Trying to unravel how we got there and how we broke our own values was a process that took far longer than the actual affair.  My MM marriage wasn't too different from how you described yours. He was a good dad/provider and he took his vows seriously.  Despite the incompatibilities prior to his affair (they tried counseling, long before we've even met) , they had stayed together for reasons that might sound all too familiar here.  It ended up being an "exit affair" for him. He owned up to everything. I owned up the parts that are mine to own. There are many complicated factors in play, but in the end, he knew his marriage was effectively over if he could fall in love with someone else.

I am not saying that is the case with your husband or the outcome, just that I hope you see some of the parallels. I admire the hopefulness you have towards second chances, forgiveness, in one's ability to change.  I believe in that too. At the end of the day, it IS a choice. I think people tend to be more skeptical on this board, that's true. And with good reasons.  He was involved in a very long affair and he turns it around and tells you that it means nothing. You mean that he would risk to throw away his marriage for nothing...despite knowing he hurt you the first time and then went back and kept it going for 6 years (and then throws the OW under the bus instead of owning his part in it?)  I don't think your husband is quite "safe" for you in terms of being transparent, yet, but that doesn't mean he won't be, someday. 

If you are interested in making it work, just make sure you are BOTH reconciling for the right reasons first -- with the same urgency and deep self-reflection of why you want to to stay together.  Anything short of that - I think you risk setting yourself up to fail.

Edited February 19, 2023 by spiritedaway2003

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He doesn’t want to be the type of person to cheat anymore. It was a maladaptive coping strategy. He doesn’t want her anymore and realizes it was what she represented and what was missing in him. Can’t people realize that what they wanted is not what they want anymore?

Yes.  

I do not intend harshness, but:   It's likely that he never  "wanted" to be the type of person to cheat.  People who are trapped in any kind of addictions often don't want to be that type of person either.  I realize that the affair - having is not necessarily an addiction or related to it in some ways.  In ways, though, it absolutely is:  the FEELINGS that the behavior provide become more desirable than anything.  This can be a moment by moment situation and the person needs to learn really deeply how to acknowledge that they're in one of those places and how to ride it out without acting upon it.

Your husband has many many years and experiences of acting upon it.  Tons of practice.

So far in this thread you haven't talked about what he's doing to move past these moments that he absolutely WILL be having without being swayed to act upon them.

I assure you that worrying about your marriage or what your kids think of him are not the kind of things that will keep him steady in those moments.   

I am not suggesting that you give up, but I do have a pretty strong concern about your conviction that he is "a changed man."  Why?  Because he got caught?  That, I don't buy.   

You still refer to him as "a liar and a cheat" and you can't be fully present to work on your marriage because you are so hurt and your marriage so damaged.  I would feel the same.  But how is he going to change completely in this situation, and how are you going to give him the trust that would be required - including the trust of being fully there with / for him sexually?   I don't know how.

As I said earlier, I would, at best, look at this as a situation where you are tacitly accepting the likelihood of further infidelity from him.  

Edited to add:  I do NOT believe "once a cheater always a cheater."  I personally have made profound changes in myself during the course of my life.  Those demons still lie in wait for me though; I'm always aware of that, unless I want to embrace them back again.

There is not any part of this post that tells me that your husband has changed.   You caught him (again) and your kids heard you fighting.  That is not indicative of an internal shift in the man.

Edited February 19, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[BPBP]

4 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He picked me already. I am not ashamed to admit that anything that brings her some pain and rejection makes me feel like she is getting what she deserved trying to poach another woman’s husband and one with children no less. 

I've been both OW and BW in my lifetime but never really had this kind of vindictiveness.  You want to stay so stay but know that he did NOT pick you, he was caught!  In his 6 years of relationship to OW I am certain he uttered hundreds of loving words to her for her to stay.  Know that your husband is no prize, know that wishing another woman pain will not re-build a happy home.  I am sure OW is completely devastated as well, especially if her husband is divorcing her.   What I see in long term is other woman winning, with a brand new relationship and you stuck in this vindictiveness and using your children to keep a man attached to you.  

[Hopefullyjaded9]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Yes.  

I do not intend harshness, but:   It's likely that he never  "wanted" to be the type of person to cheat.  People who are trapped in any kind of addictions often don't want to be that type of person either.  I realize that the affair - having is not necessarily an addiction or related to it in some ways.  In ways, though, it absolutely is:  the FEELINGS that the behavior provide become more desirable than anything.  This can be a moment by moment situation and the person needs to learn really deeply how to acknowledge that they're in one of those places and how to ride it out without acting upon it.

Your husband has many many years and experiences of acting upon it.  Tons of practice.

So far in this thread you haven't talked about what he's doing to move past these moments that he absolutely WILL be having without being swayed to act upon them.

I assure you that worrying about your marriage or what your kids think of him are not the kind of things that will keep him steady in those moments.   

I am not suggesting that you give up, but I do have a pretty strong concern about your conviction that he is "a changed man."  Why?  Because he got caught?  That, I don't buy.   

You still refer to him as "a liar and a cheat" and you can't be fully present to work on your marriage because you are so hurt and your marriage so damaged.  I would feel the same.  But how is he going to change completely in this situation, and how are you going to give him the trust that would be required - including the trust of being fully there with / for him sexually?   I don't know how.

As I said earlier, I would, at best, look at this as a situation where you are tacitly accepting the likelihood of further infidelity from him.  

Edited to add:  I do NOT believe "once a cheater always a cheater."  I personally have made profound changes in myself during the course of my life.  Those demons still lie in wait for me though; I'm always aware of that, unless I want to embrace them back again.

There is not any part of this post that tells me that your husband has changed.   You caught him (again) and your kids heard you fighting.  That is not indicative of an internal shift in the man.

Appreciate your post. I don’t think he is a changed man yet. I think he is a man who wants to change and is finally seeking the help to do that. Huge difference in me believing he has changed versus having the tool to try to do that finally. I can see the similarities to addiction. I do think my husband was addicted to how he felt with this woman. The dopamine hits he got. He is working with his IC to deal with this. Part of that is acknowledging when he is struggling and being honest about it. I would think that like an alcoholic who wants to drink, he will have to replace that behavior with a new safe one and remind himself continually what will happen if he makes poor choices. I guess therapy is kind of like his AA. He is currently keeping busy with our girls and started numerous improvement projects around the house. We have also recently started a physical hobby together as a way to build new positive memories and get some endorphins. 
 

How do you keep these demons at bat as you mentioned? Open to all suggestions 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

19 minutes ago, BPBP said:

I've been both OW and BW in my lifetime but never really had this kind of vindictiveness.  You want to stay so stay but know that he did NOT pick you, he was caught!  In his 6 years of relationship to OW I am certain he uttered hundreds of loving words to her for her to stay.  Know that your husband is no prize, know that wishing another woman pain will not re-build a happy home.  I am sure OW is completely devastated as well, especially if her husband is divorcing her.   What I see in long term is other woman winning, with a brand new relationship and you stuck in this vindictiveness and using your children to keep a man attached to you.  

I don’t really care how she feels. She knew he was married and signed up for it in a way. I was the one in the dark. And yes maybe it does sound vindictive but it is honest and where I am at right now. 
 

I don’t agree with the OW winning. She wanted my husband and didn’t get him. Not sure how great of a brand new relationship you get as a known cheater. I can’t imagine many quality men find that an attractive quality. 

[RebeccaR]

15 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

I don’t really care how she feels. She knew he was married and signed up for it in a way. I was the one in the dark. And yes maybe it does sound vindictive but it is honest and where I am at right now. 
 

I don’t agree with the OW winning. She wanted my husband and didn’t get him. Not sure how great of a brand new relationship you get as a known cheater. I can’t imagine many quality men find that an attractive quality. 

It seems like you don’t really want your husband as a man, but you really, really want your old life back. I’m not sure that’s an option. Think carefully about whether you want to be married to a known, recalcitrant cheater. The fact he had some straying behavior even before the) 6 year affair is a field full of red flags. I know you want reconciliation, but I am concerned you will never find peace with him. Therapy is good but it doesn’t solve everything.

[BrinnM]

38 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

She wanted my husband and didn’t get him. Not sure how great of a brand new relationship you get as a known cheater. I can’t imagine many quality men find that an attractive quality. 

But how does this way of thinking fit into the narrative of your own marriage, especially with regards to your reconciliation attempt? This type of cognitive dissonance might trip you up pretty soon.
 

Because: You are judging this woman very harshly, while at the same time giving your husband the benefit of the doubt. I don’t see how he is morally superior to her. If anything, you should hold him to a higher standard than her, for it is not the other woman who betrayed your trust. [And besides, I don’t think a “known cheater” has a tougher time finding a fulfilling relationship than anybody else. Her husband even took back this known cheater, and you did the same with your husband. Twice. We all have flaws, just like your H & his OW, and when somebody falls in love with us, they don’t see those flaws. If they’re in love with us, they find those flaws intriguing and interesting.]
 

So I totally understand your dislike of her, I’m not judging you for that; I’m just very concerned that this rather unrealistic view of the situation and the biased characterization of the people involved will lead to more hurt in the long run. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

16 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

But how does this way of thinking fit into the narrative of your own marriage, especially with regards to your reconciliation attempt? This type of cognitive dissonance might trip you up pretty soon.
 

Because: You are judging this woman very harshly, while at the same time giving your husband the benefit of the doubt. I don’t see how he is morally superior to her. If anything, you should hold him to a higher standard than her, for it is not the other woman who betrayed your trust. [And besides, I don’t think a “known cheater” has a tougher time finding a fulfilling relationship than anybody else. Her husband even took back this known cheater, and you did the same with your husband. Twice. We all have flaws, just like your H & his OW, and when somebody falls in love with us, they don’t see those flaws. If they’re in love with us, they find those flaws intriguing and interesting.]
 

So I totally understand your dislike of her, I’m not judging you for that; I’m just very concerned that this rather unrealistic view of the situation and the biased characterization of the people involved will lead to more hurt in the long run. 

If you read earlier posts on this thread I did say that a part of me does hate him so all the things that make me keep divorce very closely on the back burner are the result of me not finding him morally superior at all. The difference is I know his good qualities and life and I don’t know hers so of course it is easier to make her the target. 
 

As for being able to resolve that dissonance in my own relationship, I think our relationship moving forward will always be tainted in some way. It can never go back to being the innocent pure love that we had before this. Yes there were problems but the love that I had for him was pure. Now, I still love him but as my username suggests, it is jaded and always going to lack a full deep vulnerability and trust. I can’t give that fully again. I know too much. 
 

What I meant about the OW’s future relationship potential was that anyone who starts a new relationship will eventually have to disclose why their marriage ended. Either they will lie and continue their pattern of betrayal or they will have to admit they were unfaithful to a spouse for many years. As a new potential partner I would assume that would give some pause and may take away their safety and ability to trust 100% and be vulnerable with that person. They may not be able to ever start with that pure love. 
 

The way I look at it for my marriage is that btwn by previous ex cheating and my now husband cheating, that is what I assume the default is always going to be. I won’t be able to ever be trusting in a new relationship again so whether it is reconciliation or a divorce in my future, no man will ever be able to have that from me.  

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Not sure how great of a brand new relationship you get as a known cheater. I can’t imagine many quality men find that an attractive quality. 

Chances are high that any new men in her life will know nothing about her past with your husband.  She could be a Saint for all they know.   Or if they did find out she could always say she didn't know he was married.  

[Hopefullyjaded9]

23 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Chances are high that any new men in her life will know nothing about her past with your husband.  She could be a Saint for all they know.   Or if they did find out she could always say she didn't know he was married.  

That would be quite sad to start a new relationship based off of lies but not our problem.