Third time the charm?

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Suppose what you are saying is true. That he loved her and they had a passionate and sexy relationship. How am I supposed to get him to admit to that?

Again, by owning your role (not take blame for his cheating but simply own your role as he should own his), by letting go of resentment, stop blaming, stop punishing, stop requiring him to do whatever you are requiring him to do to make you feel safe which is YOUR responsibility and no one else's.

Strive for understanding versus anger, resentment, punishment.  This CAN be done, it takes a level of evolvement on your part and letting go of "victim mentality."

I can tell you, my husband has disclosed some very deep **** to me that would have other women's minds and emotions in a tailspin.

But I welcome his openness, knowledge IS power.  So it understanding.   Both are necessary in achieving happiness with another human being in a long term relationship or marriage.

I am wondering, how is IC or MC helping you?  Given you still feel so much anger and resentment?

In any event, I have said my piece on this.  It's up to you and your husband.  I DO hope it eventually works out and at the very least you can achieve some level of peace and happiness.

Good luck.

EDIT:  I would stop believing what your husband tells you about his AP.  Given your resentment and anger, I highly doubt he would ever reveal his true feelings about her and their RL.  Why it went on for so long, how deeply he loved her.  He is going to tell you whatever he thinks you need to hear.

Which is yet another reason why IMO, you should simply leave.  The trust is gone and when trust is gone, there is NOTHING.  Literally.

I'm sorry.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by poppyfields

[Hopefullyjaded9]

18 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Again, by owning your role (not take blame for his cheating but simply own your role as he should own his), by letting go of resentment, stop blaming, stop punishing, stop requiring him to do whatever you are requiring him to do to make you feel safe which is YOUR responsibility and no one else's.

Strive for understanding versus anger, resentment, punishment.  This CAN be done, it takes a level of evolvement on your part and letting go of "victim mentality."

I can tell you, my husband has disclosed some very deep **** to me that would have other women's minds and emotions in a tailspin.

But I welcome his openness, knowledge IS power.  So it understanding.   Both are necessary in achieving happiness with another human being in a long term relationship or marriage.

I am wondering, how is IC or MC helping you?  Given you still feel so much anger and resentment?

In any event, I have said my piece on this.  It's up to you and your husband.  I DO hope it eventually works out and at the very least you can achieve some level of peace and happiness.

Good luck.

EDIT:  I would stop believing what your husband tells you about his AP.  Given your resentment and anger, I highly doubt he would ever reveal his true feelings about her and their RL.  Why it went on for so long, how deeply he loved her.  He is going to tell you whatever he thinks you need to hear.

Which is yet another reason why IMO, you should simply leave.  The trust is gone and when trust is gone, there is NOTHING.  Literally.

I'm sorry.

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my posts. Your advice is really good and helpful. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

48 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

No, don't do that.

You also have to wonder. Does your husband regret cheating? Or does he regret that he got caught? He may be sorry that he hurt you. But not regret the affair.

He definitely regrets getting caught. I am not sure if he 100% regrets it. Only he can know that for sure and I think that depends on how he views his relationship with the OW. I do genuinely think he is sorry for the hurt he has caused. To himself included. I think a lot of the regret started to come after he realized how much work has to be done to try to recover from it. He has mentioned that he is glad we are finally getting the help we should have gotten years ago which I agree with. 

[Alpacalia]

16 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He definitely regrets getting caught. I am not sure if he 100% regrets it. Only he can know that for sure and I think that depends on how he views his relationship with the OW. I do genuinely think he is sorry for the hurt he has caused. To himself included. I think a lot of the regret started to come after he realized how much work has to be done to try to recover from it. He has mentioned that he is glad we are finally getting the help we should have gotten years ago which I agree with. 

It sounds like your partner may regret the consequences of his actions, such as being caught and the work required to repair the damage, but his true feelings about the affair and the relationship with the other person may be more complex and only he can know for sure. It's positive that he acknowledges the hurt he has caused and is willing to work on the relationship with you, including seeking help to address underlying issues. It's important for both of you to continue working on rebuilding trust and addressing the root causes of the affair in order to move forward and have a healthy, fulfilling relationship. IF that's what you choose to do.

Hopefully your self-esteem won't go down the pooper in the process!

Avoid taking a cause-and-effect approach within your marriage, and you can avoid oversimplifying infidelity. The fundamental issue of infidelity in a marriage is a betrayal of trust, and thus must be treated as such.

It's worth noting that while marital problems can be a contributing factor, it's important to address the breach of trust and work on rebuilding the relationship before tackling other issues within the marriage.

Without establishing a baseline of safety and trust within the relationship, there may be limited progress in working through the issues that led to the infidelity. It's important for both of you to agree on what level of safety is needed in order to rebuild trust and move forward in the healing process. 

Recovery after infidelity is often counterintuitive, since both partners have different needs. Both may view each other negatively as they attempt to recover. Trauma is often processed by women repeatedly discussing it, whereas men compartmentalize it. Women may keep bringing up their affair, and men may see it as an attempt to punish and shame them, rather than understanding that their wife is having a normal trauma response.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Will am I]

Everyone regrets getting caught.

Most people probably regret the fact that their wife is heartbroken.

True remorse is about the actions themselves.

 

There will always be a certain halfheartedness in the remorse. Because not cheating would have meant not getting to know the OW. And when those feelings were real, it is really hard to distance yourself from that.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

Everyone regrets getting caught.

Most people probably regret the fact that their wife is heartbroken.

True remorse is about the actions themselves.

 

There will always be a certain halfheartedness in the remorse. Because not cheating would have meant not getting to know the OW. And when those feelings were real, it is really hard to distance yourself from that.

If this is how you feel, how come you are trying to make it work with your wife? How can that even work if you still look fondly back on your relationship?

[Hopefullyjaded9]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

It sounds like your partner may regret the consequences of his actions, such as being caught and the work required to repair the damage, but his true feelings about the affair and the relationship with the other person may be more complex and only he can know for sure. It's positive that he acknowledges the hurt he has caused and is willing to work on the relationship with you, including seeking help to address underlying issues. It's important for both of you to continue working on rebuilding trust and addressing the root causes of the affair in order to move forward and have a healthy, fulfilling relationship. IF that's what you choose to do.

Hopefully your self-esteem won't go down the pooper in the process!

Avoid taking a cause-and-effect approach within your marriage, and you can avoid oversimplifying infidelity. The fundamental issue of infidelity in a marriage is a betrayal of trust, and thus must be treated as such.

It's worth noting that while marital problems can be a contributing factor, it's important to address the breach of trust and work on rebuilding the relationship before tackling other issues within the marriage.

Without establishing a baseline of safety and trust within the relationship, there may be limited progress in working through the issues that led to the infidelity. It's important for both of you to agree on what level of safety is needed in order to rebuild trust and move forward in the healing process. 

Recovery after infidelity is often counterintuitive, since both partners have different needs. Both may view each other negatively as they attempt to recover. Trauma is often processed by women repeatedly discussing it, whereas men compartmentalize it. Women may keep bringing up their affair, and men may see it as an attempt to punish and shame them, rather than understanding that their wife is having a normal trauma response.

Yes!!!! It is the trust. Our MC said everything needs to be from backwards starting from the affair and going back not beginning at the things that existed prior. What you said makes total sense. Interesting that you brought up the trauma response of having to talk about it repeatedly. My husband is patient with my talking about it to a point and then he shuts down making me feel like it doesn’t matter. He insists it does but after a while just need a break from it. Thanks for the insight. 

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Yes!!!! It is the trust. Our MC said everything needs to be from backwards starting from the affair and going back not beginning at the things that existed prior. What you said makes total sense. Interesting that you brought up the trauma response of having to talk about it repeatedly. My husband is patient with my talking about it to a point and then he shuts down making me feel like it doesn’t matter. He insists it does but after a while just need a break from it. Thanks for the insight. 

Definitely.

Despite how painful it may be for you, keep in mind that your husband may have been forced to separate, which means there may be unresolved feelings. As for me, the "other woman" was just a fleeting encounter and she voluntarily confided in me everything she knew. The two of them met at a bar and made out. Whether that is true or not, who knows. Maybe it would have continued if I hadn't found out. 

Lots of what ifs!

Love and desire go hand in hand, so those feelings may never go away for your husband. It will require you to adjust to staying in the marriage if you choose to do so.

Real affairs, long term, are not about sex. It’s a separate relationship from the marriage. This is what keeps them going and keeps them happy. Your husband's view on the marriage at one point (which may or may no longer be the case) is that it was hopeless and not what he wanted for himself.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Will am I]

8 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

If this is how you feel, how come you are trying to make it work with your wife? How can that even work if you still look fondly back on your relationship?

Also responding to @RebeccaRwho made a similar point.

This is such a great question. 

I think the answer is easier to explain if I compare an affair to a period of substance addiction.

The analogy isn’t even that far off, because the excitement and infatuation in affairs are indeed a high. Affairs are in that sense addictive, not very different than alcohol or drugs.

People who got their lives back on track after a period where substances took over, will typically have an ambivalent set of memories. The general picture is that alcohol or drugs were destroying their life and they are very proud and happy to leave that behind. Those feelings are genuine. But there are also fond memories. One of the tough realities that recovering heroin and coke addicts need to deal with is that they will probably never feel as intensely happy as the times they were on drugs.

The past has a certain place in the heart, which does not invalidate the genuine desire to stay clean.

I guess that some former MM have a tendency to villify and tear down their xOW. Telling their wives (and themselves) that xOW was a nasty b for seducing them. An attempt to rewrite history.

I don’t think that is fair or realistic. xOW is a lovely young woman who deserves the best in life. More than an MM like me could give her. There’s my fondness right there. It will slowly fade but it’s not magically gone because I chose the right path and left the affair.

[JTSW]

Regardless of what anyone advises, it's clear you are working on your marriage.

I personally think he is continuously lying and he is so good at it that you believe it.

I hope things work out for your daughters sake.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

7 hours ago, Will am I said:

Also responding to @RebeccaRwho made a similar point.

This is such a great question. 

I think the answer is easier to explain if I compare an affair to a period of substance addiction.

The analogy isn’t even that far off, because the excitement and infatuation in affairs are indeed a high. Affairs are in that sense addictive, not very different than alcohol or drugs.

People who got their lives back on track after a period where substances took over, will typically have an ambivalent set of memories. The general picture is that alcohol or drugs were destroying their life and they are very proud and happy to leave that behind. Those feelings are genuine. But there are also fond memories. One of the tough realities that recovering heroin and coke addicts need to deal with is that they will probably never feel as intensely happy as the times they were on drugs.

The past has a certain place in the heart, which does not invalidate the genuine desire to stay clean.

I guess that some former MM have a tendency to villify and tear down their xOW. Telling their wives (and themselves) that xOW was a nasty b for seducing them. An attempt to rewrite history.

I don’t think that is fair or realistic. xOW is a lovely young woman who deserves the best in life. More than an MM like me could give her. There’s my fondness right there. It will slowly fade but it’s not magically gone because I chose the right path and left the affair.

Wow thank you for your honesty. I have to agree with BrinnM this must be extremely hard for your wife to hear but at the same time for reconciliation to work there has to be honesty and yours is refreshing. I would imagine many MM feel like they can’t say this to their BS because if they did then their spouses would never take them back. This is what makes infidelity so gosh darn impossible. I need my husband to be 100% honest to rebuild trust, but if I heard him tell me that he will never feel as intensely happy with me as compared to her, I would like to think I would tell him to leave and never look back. I would also guess that many MM don’t think of their OW as fondly as you did so it would be different for everyone.  I hope for your wife’s well-being that these feelings fade away and that eventually there is no fondness there because that keeps you hooked in.
 

Brinn you are exactly right, if this is how Will feels, it makes you wonder about my husband’s true feelings towards his OW. A long term affair is a special type of hell for a BS. So many suggestions do not apply and recovery is so much harder knowing it was a repetitive choice he made to sacrifice everything he says he now cannot lose for a woman that he claims he never really wanted. He has said repeatedly that is so relieved from not having to lie and juggle both relationships anymore which I believe to be true. Juggling a double life was taking its toll on him mentally and he is in a much better place now. And as BS, I despise the phrase choosing “what is right.” Make my blood boil. 

[BrinnM]

3 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

he says he now cannot lose for a woman that he claims he never really wanted.

This is of course hard to believe, because it was literally another long-term relationship, and it also sounds like a serious relationship. But it could also be that she was the instigator and the one who was more invested and attached throughout those 6 years (or however long it really lasted), and he felt he couldn't "let her down". Unfortunately we don't know that.

5 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Juggling a double life was taking its toll on him mentally

Yes, it must be extremely stressful. I don't know how people do it long-term. 

[RebeccaR]

16 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

And as BS, I despise the phrase choosing “what is right.” Make my blood boil. 

I totally understand, but that is what you are expecting him to do. If he had indeed broken up with her unequivocally, you would have more reassurance that you are who he wants. The problem is he was caught. If it’s true he was sick of the OW, that would also be reassuring, but those are easy words to say. I guess you have to take some solace in the fact he cares about your feelings enough to downplay the importance of the affair to him. If you do want to reconcile, maybe use that level of caring from him as a starting point.

[Will am I]

22 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Wow thank you for your honesty. I have to agree with BrinnM this must be extremely hard for your wife to hear but at the same time for reconciliation to work there has to be honesty and yours is refreshing. I would imagine many MM feel like they can’t say this to their BS because if they did then their spouses would never take them back.

My wife is much more into honesty than into diplomacy and good manners. That's who she is, it's a structural part of her value system.

She prefers me to be bluntly honest. By nature I'm more of the diplomatic and well mannered type who doesn't always speak his mind. But I needed to change that.

 

22 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

This is what makes infidelity so gosh darn impossible. I need my husband to be 100% honest to rebuild trust, but if I heard him tell me that he will never feel as intensely happy with me as compared to her, I would like to think I would tell him to leave and never look back. 

Maybe it helps if I challenge your choice of words.

Intense: yes

Happy: not necessarily

In terms of intensity, leaving an affair is going to be a step down. It would not be honest to claim otherwise. But happiness is different than intensity. I believe there is much more happiness to be found in a marriage than in an affair. Speaking personally, I am less intense but happier now. So the "settling for mediocricity" frame doesn't apply.

 

22 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Brinn you are exactly right, if this is how Will feels, it makes you wonder about my husband’s true feelings towards his OW. A long term affair is a special type of hell for a BS. So many suggestions do not apply and recovery is so much harder knowing it was a repetitive choice he made to sacrifice everything he says he now cannot lose for a woman that he claims he never really wanted. He has said repeatedly that is so relieved from not having to lie and juggle both relationships anymore which I believe to be true. Juggling a double life was taking its toll on him mentally and he is in a much better place now.

I don't buy the part where he says he "never really wanted" his OW. Of course he did. 

I think he feels compelled to tear his OW down, vilify her, make her seem less attractive, all to make it seem less likely that he's want to go back to her. He sees your anxiety and it;s making him nervous and uneasy. I think he says this to try and calm your anxiety. 

 

22 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

And as BS, I despise the phrase choosing “what is right.” Make my blood boil. 

Please tell him that. Because from a male perspective this is a logical phrase.

Affair = wrong, marriage = right.

Choose what is right. Make the morally acceptible choice.

I do not believe it is intentional to hurt you when he says this. 

[mark clemson]

Have been too busy to chime in for a bit. Hope things are going ok with you, OP.

Here is one take on some of the issues being brought up in recent pages:

How he feels: There's a time for everything. Right now you're the one who's discovered the affair and, let's be frank, are traumatized. Right now is time for YOUR healing and for adjusting things so that you can feel even remotely safe, function, choose to continue the marriage (if you do) etc. So (IMO) the focus should be on you.

Eventually, though, I agree with several folks above that you will need to turn around and address his happiness level. Else, as noted, you're at greater risk of a repeat. I suspect being dishonest with you is quite ingrained in him right now (after 6 years+). What happens when he IS honest? Bad things? Yelling, refusal to accept/see what he might be trying to tell you? What are the things in the marriage that make him happy/unhappy? Can the positives can be increased and the negatives reduced?

Right now isn't the time for trying to address those things. But I think failing to carry through and work on them later on is just another form of rug-sweeping. Strongly suggest you make sure to loop around and work through these things in marriage counseling.

They say you have to build a new marriage after infidelity. If you can't build one (together) where both of you are reasonably happy, what do you think will happen?

 

[mark clemson]

Second issue: His "choice" of infidelity.  It's true that infidelity was his choice apparently to (in his case) make himself feel better. However, people often ignore the actual other choices available and the ramifications of making them. To help yourself understand his perspective a little better - realistically, what ARE the choices an unhappy spouse has:

- Work on the marriage (but typically that's been tried)

- Separate/Divorce

- Cheat

- Stick it out (but remain unhappy)

- Open the marriage

Most folks won't accept opening the marriage. It didn't get worked on effectively before, so here you are again.

It's not easy perhaps to see this when in post D-day distress, but his choice was a "middle road" between leaving and being unhappy. Less ethical in some folks minds, but people in difficult situations bend their morals all the time.

Again, I don't think it will be wise to ignore how he feels in all of this and not eventually loop around to his happiness. IF he feels strongly unhappy again one day, this same basic set of choices will still be the available to him then.

[Nowherenear]

In my opinion the kids should not have been involved in this taking sides, blackmailing their own father and having to "parent" their mother seeing her as the victim. The couple's relationship and the kids' perspective are two different things because the parents can divorce and live a different life but the kids will always have these memories and experiences in mind and they might determine the way they see life, men, relationships etc. 

Having said that, I have read various disturbing things written by the OP that make me come to the conclusion that her marriage is not healthy in my opinion. Of course most marriages have their problems but I get the impression that she stayed with her H as a way of punishing him and preventing him from being with the OW.

There are people who don't want to quit easily and they want to try their best even if they fail in the end and that way they get real closure. This is what I think is going on in OP's mind.

The OP seems very disappointed with men in general and she seems to think that the devil she knows is better than the one she doesn't know. Her lack of interest in sex might be another issue that makes her stay with her H, thinking that now she has a good excuse to not have sex, but if she meets a new guy she can't really avoid it.

From what she has said here I come to the conclusion that people don't always choose to do things that they know are good for them or at least they choose the best out of other worse options. The OP knows I think in her heart that her H was deceitful and that there are things he doesn't tell her or lies about, but she has chosen to knowingly stay and fight for what she believes is her best option, both for her and her kids.

With that I mean that no matter how much the posters here tell her and warn her that her H is not worth her efforts, she will still insist that she wants to stay and try and of course it's her right to do so.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

5 minutes ago, Nowherenear said:

In my opinion the kids should not have been involved in this taking sides, blackmailing their own father and having to "parent" their mother seeing her as the victim. The couple's relationship and the kids' perspective are two different things because the parents can divorce and live a different life but the kids will always have these memories and experiences in mind and they might determine the way they see life, men, relationships etc. 

Having said that, I have read various disturbing things written by the OP that make me come to the conclusion that her marriage is not healthy in my opinion. Of course most marriages have their problems but I get the impression that she stayed with her H as a way of punishing him and preventing him from being with the OW.

There are people who don't want to quit easily and they want to try their best even if they fail in the end and that way they get real closure. This is what I think is going on in OP's mind.

The OP seems very disappointed with men in general and she seems to think that the devil she knows is better than the one she doesn't know. Her lack of interest in sex might be another issue that makes her stay with her H, thinking that now she has a good excuse to not have sex, but if she meets a new guy she can't really avoid it.

From what she has said here I come to the conclusion that people don't always choose to do things that they know are good for them or at least they choose the best out of other worse options. The OP knows I think in her heart that her H was deceitful and that there are things he doesn't tell her or lies about, but she has chosen to knowingly stay and fight for what she believes is her best option, both for her and her kids.

With that I mean that no matter how much the posters here tell her and warn her that her H is not worth her efforts, she will still insist that she wants to stay and try and of course it's her right to do so.

The kids got involved because they heard us arguing upon discovery. The only option was to tell them vs me becoming a liar as well. That is on him. The well-being of my children is my priority always.

I am not punishing him. He has to get help, work on himself and prove himself a changed man for this to work.  That will take time.  If he messes up by lying again, or having another affair, I am looking at the positives of staying married longer like increased spousal support, more time away from AP to get out of the hooks of that relationship.  I want this to work but am trying to find some upsides if it should not in the future. At least I know we really tried this time unlike our first false reconciliation. This marriage will only work if he changes his character and patterns because he wants to and with the support of a therapist.  This is the best option for myself and my kids but there is a lot that needs to be done to get there.  Plus I do love a lot about my husband as is.  He is smart, funny, successful, and we enjoy each others company.  Sex is not always the most important thing in a LTR, especially as we age.

I understand that who he has secretly been for the past few years is not worth my efforts which is why I am not trying to change me at all. He is the one putting forth the effort finally. I am simply giving him the time to see that through.  

 

 

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

36 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

This marriage will only work if he changes his character and patterns because he wants to and with the support of a therapist

I don't know if I'm aware of anyone changing their character because of therapy.  The only way therapy has any influence at all is if the client is completely honest with the provider.  The change of character would need to already be in place at the time the therapy started, and your H is a "good liar" with a lot of experience doing it.  

 I continue to be guarded because of this , and because you have no idea whether he would really be "done" with this affair if her husband hadn't blown their cover.   

I'm in your corner since this is clearly what you want.  Personally I would not be able to learn to trust this person.  It's because of the longevity of the affair and his ease of returning to it after the first "reveal."   Other circumstances, I could be very willing to work through and give a real chance.  I cheated before, so I have been on on that side.   

Edited February 24, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[Nowherenear]

54 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

more time away from AP to get out of the hooks of that relationship

Why care what he does if you divorce? This shows me you are trying to prove a point to the OW, and of course it's understandable, but in my opinion it's not a sign of a healthy relationship. The way I see it your H at the moment is in constance supervision by his wife and kids. I'm not saying he hasn't caused this to himself or that he doesn't deserve it. Is this really how you want to live your life? By supervising your H so he doesn't cheat again?

You admit one reason for you staying is the stability and the safety. Have you thought that maybe these are some of the reasons he stays as well?

Are you satisfied if he only stays for the kids?

[RebeccaR]

2 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

Sex is not always the most important thing in a LTR, especially as we age

For some people this is true. For your husband, it is not true. If he knew this was your line of thinking, would he want to stay? I understand why you don’t feel the need to be honest with him, but he thinks you’re working on this sexual incompatibility while it sounds like you are not working on it at all.

In terms of the kids - I agree it’s not their business. People withhold information from their children on occasion in order to protect them. Maybe you didn’t want to lie, maybe you just like having them in your corner. But it’s not a healthy way for them to be living day to day, knowing Dad is staying and resenting him every time you’re upset.

 I think the marriage is over and it would be kindest to let him go - but you (understandably) don’t feel like being kind to him. Unfortunately the limbo you are all living in is harder for everyone than making the break.

[Will am I]

Sex drives vary between people and over time. Generally OP, you have a point that the importance of sex lessens with age.

But it’s not a linear decline over the years.

I’ve heard of women who develop a phase of very strong sex drive around their final fertile years before menopause. Almost as if their body was screaming “one more child, while we can”.

Yet other women confess to a much lower sex drive as perimepause shows up. So apparently it can go both ways.

I think men between 40 and 60 may experience a pattern of increased sex deive, something a little bit similar to the first group. Telltale words from a relationship podcast. A man in his 50s who was in an affair with a woman 15 years his junior: “I want to experience this kind of explosive sex now I still can”. For him the sex drive had gone so high that he was willing to sacrifice a long, low-sex but otherwise happy, marriage over it. 

In an LTR, sex is only one of many sides. And when people mature, they become better at handling a temporary mismatch in sex drives. But it is very important that it’s a topic of conversation. A wife who avoids or rejects sex without being able to talk openly and intimately about the situation, that feels like personal rejection to a man.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

For some people this is true. For your husband, it is not true.

This is very true, based on your comments OP. You tend to minimize and invalidate his interest in sex. Just because sex is not the most important thing to you does not mean that your husband agrees, or even that it’s true. And considering the fact that he’s gone outside the marriage, I would say that he is of a different opinion.

Read the posts on this board of some older men who’s wives have been of similar opinion and let the sex go out of their relationship - these men are desperately unhappy, craving intimacy with their wives, and often considering divorce. 

And for the record, I hear what you are saying about not wanting to have sex everyday. And, I personally do not believe that you need to jump every time he smiles at you (he is as you have said very capable of taking care of his own needs sometimes). And of course, your interest in sex is affected by the trauma you have experienced as a result of his affair. That said, if you intend to stay in the marriage you would be wise not to dismiss or invalidate his interest in sex.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by BaileyB

[Nowherenear]

OP I don't consider you stupid or naive for staying with your husband. Not all people find the same things important or deal breakers. For many women it's more important that their kids grow up with both their parents even if the parents' relationship is not really good and many other women think that if they are not happy in their relationship they can't be good parents.

[Alpacalia]

15 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

 If he messes up by lying again, or having another affair, I am looking at the positives of staying married longer like increased spousal support, more time away from AP to get out of the hooks of that relationship.  I want this to work but am trying to find some upsides if it should not in the future.

If he were to have another encounter with her, you would have taught him nothing except that he needs to improve his deception skills in the future.

Furthermore, if he were to cheat again with someone else, he wouldn't necessarily assume that all women would react the same way. Choosing to stay with him after being cheated on caused your confidence to dwindle or remain stagnant. Being cheated on is a devastating experience, without question.

By staying with a him, you're reinforcing those feelings because your husband already decided to seek fulfillment outside of the relationship, indicating that you were not enough for them. Do you want to constantly wonder if it will happen again and wish that you could have been the one to meet his needs? In reality, there may not have been a legitimate void to fill, and even if there was, open and honest communication could have prevented the infidelity.

Remaining in a circumstance where he has challenged your legitimacy as a physical, intellectual, and/or emotional companion, and where you are left doubting your own self-worth, will not contribute to any improvements in your confidence.

Let's keep it simple.

Needs, which include honesty and faithfulness, are essential and should not be disregarded. When it comes to needs versus wants, needs are non-negotiable while wants are negotiable.

It's not advisable to stay with someone who is not fulfilling your basic needs. Capeesh?