Third time the charm?

[BaileyB]

44 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Now the way the now adult kids talk about it is "C and M(their dad) didn't get together in the best way."  

That’s pretty much what we say too…

[Hopefullyjaded9]

3 hours ago, S2B said:

Do this - since you are so focused on reconciling.

he betrayed you. Allow ONLY him to make the effort for the damage he has caused that has ruined your marriage!

that way YOU will actually be capable of determining IF he’s making effort, focused on bettering the relationship, doing the hard work it takes to make sure the betrayed spouse feels a difference.

do not help him. Do not do things HE should be doing to hand you peace of mind on a silver platter. Do not make excuses for him. Just let HIM and him alone do what it takes to get your marriage on track.

and if he doesn’t - you’ll notice that too. Then end it if he doesn’t make 200% effort FOR YOU!

I completely agree. He has to prove to me that this is what he really wants and not just with words but with actions. He had made the appointments for therapy and goes without me forcing him to. He ended it with the OW without me forcing him to do that either. I told him he could leave to be with her and he said that wasn’t what he wanted. He is being an ideal husband right now as we work on repairing our marriage. He is showing remorse and continues efforts to earn back some basic trust (I will never trust 100% in anything in my life anymore) like checking in consistently throughout the day, being home as much as possible, and sharing his location. I have also been quite vicious at times due to the immense hurt and he has taken it all without getting defensive. He understands my pain and has been supportive. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

The reality is, if not this woman it would be another. And your children will continue to love their dad - regardless. 

I was a child of a parent who made a hurtful decision. It took us quite some time to accept the woman, but time heals all wounds (as they say) and in the end, all we really wanted was for our dad to be happy. 

My best friend’s father cheated on her mother. She never did accept the other woman. She was actually venomous toward the other woman and her young children picked up on her anger - still, she maintained a relationship with her father and the children saw their grandfather. This man is not with the other woman anymore (because she left him), but he has another girlfriend now which brings me to say…

If not this woman, there will be another.  You’re feeling pretty victorious right now because you have run this woman out of town but she was never really your problem. If he decides at any point to divorce and have another relationship or have another affair, your children will deal/accept it eventually because they love their father. 

They also love their mother. I have no doubt, they are devastated for what you have suffered because of your husband’s affairs. They want you to be happy too. 

You are correct that at some point if we are no longer together then he may be with someone in the future but there is a HUGE difference between dating a woman honestly and being with one who clearly has no morals and wanted to ruin a family by being with a married man.  

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

there is a HUGE difference between dating a woman honestly and being with one who clearly has no morals and wanted to ruin a family by being with a married man.  

I agree, there is definitely a difference. 

But is that not also what you are doing though -  choosing to stay with a man who clearly has no morals and wanted to ruin not one but two families by being with a married woman? 

He is no different, no better, than her. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by BaileyB

[basil67]

51 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

You are correct that at some point if we are no longer together then he may be with someone in the future but there is a HUGE difference between dating a woman honestly and being with one who clearly has no morals and wanted to ruin a family by being with a married man.  

Just as there's a HUGE difference between a man who promises his wife fidelity, but clearly has no morals and knowingly risks his family multiple times.  And of course, she's made no promises to you, so his actions are far far worse than hers.  

To be fair to her, he's probably been telling her he loves her and is stringing her along with promises that he will divorce you and be with her and she trusted him.  She almost certainly has no idea that he's a repeat cheater.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

34 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Honestly - I think even if he refused you would stay with him and make excuses for him. As others have said, you already made your decision. The question is, why are you still reading here if you are resolute in your decision?

Because I like to get unbiased feedback to see my own short-sidedness. People in my life are sick of hearing about it without imparting their opinion on what I should do with my life. That is why I am here. I am looking to gain perspective, insight and by my original post you can see I was looking for stories of success. I guess I was looking for people to validate my choice and say yes, it worked for us years later and are happy. I am reading each comment and believe me some are gut wrenching and the doubt creeps in. It takes a certain level of hope and positivity to even give reconciliation a chance. I come across as naive and desperate but I don’t feel that way. I feel in control which I need to at the moment. I don’t know what the future holds but let’s just say my eyes are wide open. 
 

 

[Alpacalia]

No relationship is perfect, and I know you love him. But he doesn't treat you well.

It's upsetting that you provided yourself with a lovely single option - to acknowledge and tolerate his infidelity. This means accepting that he was involved with other women and that there is a risk of contracting STDs if you have sex with him. It also means accepting the possibility of him impregnating her in the future (unless he has undergone a vasectomy).

Him spending his time and resources on the other women, which could have been invested in your shared life. He knows you won't leave, you become a mere convenience in his life. It’s a hell of a way to be married to anyone, but it’s up to you.

I mean, if you have no more respect for yourself than to keep allowing someone to disrespect you. What advice, really, can one give you?

[Hopefullyjaded9]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

I'm late joining in, but I've noticed that in a couple of your recent posts, you refer to "my children".   Is he not legally their father?   Or if he is their father, why don't you acknowledge that they are "our" children?  

How old are they?  Even if they weren't ready to meet his girlfriend, why can't they see him when he's on his own?   

They are legally and biologically his children. They are two teenage girls. I have never noticed I use the term my vs our. Wonder if this is a post DDay thing? Interesting observation. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Hopefullyjaded9
Add

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

You are correct that at some point if we are no longer together then he may be with someone in the future but there is a HUGE difference between dating a woman honestly and being with one who clearly has no morals and wanted to ruin a family by being with a married man.  

Yes, normal dating is different from having an extramarital affair.

I don't blame you for how you feel but I do think you need to get past your venomous blaming of the woman.  She did nothing TO you.  You were collateral damage and that damage was done BY YOUR HUSBAND.  Not her.  You would be just as hurt if he'd had an affair with somebody who didn't know he was married, or a sex worker.   The woman has nothing to do with where you're at in your marriage.

Do you want to extend the character assassination to your husband?   I mean ... you already label him (and again I don't blame you) as "liar" and "cheat."  If having an affair especially with a married person means somebody "has no morals" then he is the poster boy.   

Therapy doesn't install morals.  And I've never heard of it altering anyones basic character.  

The truth of the matter is that we all have our failings and weaknesses.   That woman might not be any worse of a human being than your husband or even you yourself.

You might be getting the feeling that you're not getting support here.  I do want to support you.  But you seem to be clutching onto some very superficial aspects of this try for reconciliation and some of it is hard to support because it comes off as unrealistic.   That is what I'm responding to and perhaps I'm not the only one.

 

 

[RebeccaR]

18 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

No relationship is perfect, and I know you love him. But he doesn't treat you well.

It's upsetting that you provided yourself with a lovely single option - to acknowledge and tolerate his infidelity. This means accepting that he was involved with other women and that there is a risk of contracting STDs if you have sex with him. It also means accepting the possibility of him impregnating her in the future (unless he has undergone a vasectomy).

Him spending his time and resources on the other women, which could have been invested in your shared life. He knows you won't leave, you become a mere convenience in his life. It’s a hell of a way to be married to anyone, but it’s up to you.

I mean, if you have no more respect for yourself than to keep allowing someone to disrespect you. What advice, really, can one give you?

In addition to saying “I love you” multiple times to another woman over 6 years - he doubtless spent family resources on her. Meals, hotel rooms, gifts, jewelry, maybe even vacations. That is money that could have been spent on your children. I know it’s not about the money, but it speaks to his priorities. 
 

There is a reason your friends and family are are sick of this conversation. It’s because they have more respect for you than you have for yourself. The only response on this thread that spoke positively about reconciliation involved a man who had a 100% remote affair for a few months, who has been reconciled for a few months. That situation is nothing like yours.

[BaileyB]

36 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

There is a marriage to keep.

There would be no marriage to keep for me,  if my partner choses to have a relationship with another woman for six years I would pack his bags for him. I respect your decision to stay, it would not be my decision.

I could perhaps forgive an affair that was a short term error in judgment, a man who came to me with the the truth and a desire to make amends, once. I would not forgive a six year affair. That, to me, is not a poor decision - that is a commitment. 

36 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

These would just be safeguards for my sense of safety and protection. He has shown he is not safe but is trying to become a safe partner again.

if you were truly concerned with your safety and protection, you would divorce this man since he has proven himself to be completely untrustworthy. 

There is no safeguard that would guarantee he will not cheat again. Where there is a will, there is a way. What’s more, you shouldn’t have to force your husband to be faithful by threat of financial ruin.  

If your goal is to heal your marriage, to live happily together with harmony and with love, a post-nup is not going to further your goal. You gain a feeling of safety and security by controlling and restricting your husband. How does love possibly grow in this situation? If your goal is truly to rebuild your marriage, you will need at some point to let down your guard, make yourself vulnerable, and trust again - something you are not able to do now, perhaps never again. And that’s ok, that is the consequence of such betrayal. But, if that’s the case, end the marriage. Free yourself so that you both have the opportunity to find a relationship that is not burdened with disrespect, mistrust, and betrayal. Just my very humble opinion…

Edited March 1, 2023 by BaileyB

[Hopefullyjaded9]

48 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Just as there's a HUGE difference between a man who promises his wife fidelity, but clearly has no morals and knowingly risks his family multiple times.  And of course, she's made no promises to you, so his actions are far far worse than hers.  

To be fair to her, he's probably been telling her he loves her and is stringing her along with promises that he will divorce you and be with her and she trusted him.  She almost certainly has no idea that he's a repeat cheater.

He is not a repeat cheater. He cheated with the same woman two times. They just went underground the first time. And he always told her he wasn’t leaving the marriage. 

[BaileyB]

 

5 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He is not a repeat cheater. He cheated with the same woman two times. They just went underground the first time. And he always told her he wasn’t leaving the marriage. 

He is a repeat cheater - he was discovered and he made the decision to continue in his affair. 

You have convinced yourself that the fact that he apparently told her that he would never leave the marriage makes it more acceptable? Your husband was telling another woman that he loved her for six years - nothing makes that acceptable. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

21 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

He is a repeat cheater - he was discovered and he made the decision to continue in his affair. 

I understand how and why you may think otherwise, but if you minimize his decision to go back and stay involved with her after discovery you are just continuing to rug sweep…

In much the same way that telling yourself it “didn’t progress” and “he never told her he would leave his marriage” and blaming his affair partner for her poor morals is also an attempt to minimize his decision to engage in another relationship that obviously undermined and hurt yourself and your marriage. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by BaileyB

[NuevoYorko]

15 minutes ago, S2B said:

That’s two times the cheater.

My understanding is that the guy had been cheating for 6 years when the 1st D-Day occurred back in 2018.  Then he just covered his tracks better and has been carrying on with it for the ensuing 5 years, until this D-Day.  

So the affair-having couple has been pretty consistently together for over a decade.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

My understanding is that the guy had been cheating for 6 years when the 1st D-Day occurred back in 2018.  Then he just covered his tracks better and has been carrying on with it for the ensuing 5 years, until this D-Day.  

So the affair-having couple has been pretty consistently together for over a decade.

The affair started in 2016. They were found out the first time in 2018. Then he was caught again last year (2022). It has not been a decade. It was on and off for 6 years in total. 

[Hopefullyjaded9]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

That’s two times the cheater. And actually worse because he made ANOTHER conscious decision to betray you, again.

deny two times all you want. He was willing to risk his marriage again to see her…knowing full well he was hurting you, again. 

He decided seeing her was worth betraying you.

That is really what eats at me the most. He saw my devastation the first time it happened and yet he did it again. I am willing to take some responsibility because we did not do anything to fix or change our relationship after the first DDay. We just went back to business as usual so going back was easy. To reconcile long term, we are trying to do it differently this time by getting IC and MC. 

[JTSW]

5 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

It was on and off for 6 years in total. 

I don't think it was ever off.

He just got better at hiding it.

[Will am I]

8 hours ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

He saw my devastation the first time it happened and yet he did it again.

This is exactly why I think your marriage is not safe and you should be preparing the backup plan. Despite your devotion and the work you and your husband are putting into it.

 

There are two risks. 

One is that your husband relapses into the affair. (I am using a word from addiction recovery, because affairs have strong similarities with addiction)

The other is that once the dust settles, your stress level comes down, your abilities for reflection come up, and you decide that you don't like this man anymore and won't be happy by his side.

 

[Alpacalia]

20 minutes ago, Will am I said:

The other is that once the dust settles, your stress level comes down, your abilities for reflection come up, and you decide that you don't like this man anymore and won't be happy by his side.

It doesn't sound like she's happy by his side now. I don't understand how you can choose to be with someone that you don't respect nor like very much.

Numbness is a way we protect ourselves. The hurt is so deep. What do you feel when you look at him? When you are having a rough go this morning, your intrusive thoughts came back again. Choices he made, things he did. You just don’t feel you can get past it.

To me I would feel like I’m fooling myself with the relationship. I’m stability. I’m comfort. I’m being used again.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

People are missing that despite the trauma and pain of the situation, we get along well as a couple and have a great family life. I wouldn’t call myself unhappy with major unmet needs. 

Well. You and your husband aren't really that different. His addiction to an on-again, off-again affair, and the resulting rejection you experienced due to his infidelity can cause significant changes in the brain pathways that are similar to the withdrawal experienced in substance use disorder.

You're right though. There are countless examples of couples who have been able to overcome significant trust issues, both individually and together. This demonstrates that it is possible for you to heal and move forward as well.

I know it was for me. I can see how the challenges I faced were part of a larger, mysterious divine plan that I may not have chosen for myself.

The aim for you and your relationship should be to heal completely, without any lasting emotional scars or impediments.

It is inevitable that your children will react and fosters the potential to become a legacy that is passed down from one generation to the next.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Alpacalia

[RebeccaR]

1 hour ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

People are missing that despite the trauma and pain of the situation, we get along well as a couple and have a great family life. I wouldn’t call myself unhappy with major unmet needs. 

Your husband has a major unmet need, though. Sex is apparently very important to him. If he says he has no unmet needs, he is lying to you and/or himself. Again, ignoring this is just another form of rug sweeping.

[RebeccaR]

OP, I know you are tracking his phone, but can you be sure he doesn’t have another phone? There are just so many ways he can evade your monitoring.

[Hopefullyjaded9]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

Here is the thing that will trip you up and short change YOU.

you have given him way TOO much of your power. All of your future is dependent on what HE does or doesn’t do!

you need to take back your power. Lay it out for him. HE should be working on the marriage. You always say “we” - there is no WE at this point - HE ruined that and has to earn that back.

stop thinking this is a we situation - it’s only on HIM to do what’s necessary to repair himself - and then the marriage. Even IF he does everything right - that could take 5 years to get back to a place where things “may be” good.

I think you have been delusional and thinking this is yours to fix. Stop taking responsibility for HIS terrible behavior!!!

read codependent no more. You seem way too co dependent on him. Your fantasy land ideas about him changing are not going to help this marriage get “better”.

You are saying a lot of the same things my IC has said. I take on too much responsibility for his choices and actions. Plus I am trying to be part of a solution to problems that are his to fix. Thank you for the book suggestion.

[RebeccaR]

4 minutes ago, Hopefullyjaded9 said:

You are saying a lot of the same things my IC has said. I take on too much responsibility for his choices and actions. Plus I am trying to be part of a solution to problems that are his to fix. Thank you for the book suggestion.

I think many of us tend to want to micromanage and control events that we can’t control. It’s not healthy for us and it’s not healthy for those around us.