GF cheated. or was it Sexual Assault? Does it matter?

[Bongo]

My GF of 2.5 years came to me the morning after a party in tears and told me something "Bad" happened last night. She barely remembered the encounter - she thought it was just a kiss, and she thought she said "stop, I have a boyfriend."

She was blackout drunk - a common excuse in cheating scenarios im sure - but in her case, you'll just have to trust me. She was blackout. She blacks out easily and has a history of trouble controlling her alcohol consumption. She couldn't even remember where it happened, how they got there, or any details. All she remembers is a flash memory of his face being close to hers and then a flash memory of walking home. 

I told her to call the guy and get more details (I was present for the phone call). He says that it went farther than that. He said he had his hands down her pants, performed oral sex on her, he claims she "breifly" performed oral sex on him too (but he was less sure about that which I thought was fishy). He said that he got up to put a condom on and when he came back she looked super uncomfortable and said that she wanted to leave - which she did. He said she was only in the house for about 20-30 minutes before leaving, and its safe to say they weren't hooking up the whole time so whatever happened was brief. 

Let me be clear, they did not get drunk together, she was with her girlfriends, and was already blackout drunk before this guy even started pursuing her. I talked to her friends that were with her and they confirmed she was super [drunk]. He offered to walk her home at the end of the night and I guess she said yes. Where [ ] were her friends? It was a long walk home, about 45 minutes in the dark, and she remembers none of this. Instead of taking her home, he took her to another friends house, to a couch...When she first told me, she assumed they had taken a cab. Validating her claims of not remembering anything. 

As for this other guy. He has known my girlfriend for years, has tried to hook up with her in the past before we were together, and she shot him down. I spoke to a therapist, and she told me that if a woman has known a guy for 10 years, and wanted to hook up with him , it most likely would have happened already. The fact that she has never allowed his advances in a sober state (even when she was single) is a pretty good indicator that she has no romantic interest in the guy.

Anyways, this happened 5 months ago. My girlfriend immediately quit drinking and has been sober since, with no intentions of ever drinking again. She is seeing a counsellor to deal with her childhood traumas (which are significant), and her boundaries with men. She is so goddamn sorry and remorseful and adamant that we are meant to be together. Some [ ]  part of me almost trusts her more due to the fact that she immediately confessed even though I would have never found out about it. She showed me all the conversations he had with this guy. There was nothing planned and no flirting or texting or anything.

She's also very adament that she had NO intention of hooking up with this guy. I've pushed her, poked holes in her story, but she will no waiver. She says it was NOT consensual and had NO intention of this happening. 

She is also a very attractive woman - and I'm trying to be sensitive to the fact that I will never know what its like to be a woman of her position, constantly being pursued and hit-on by men. 

Our therapist, her friends, and my gut is telling me this is borderline sexual assault. But I keep being haunted by the guys claim of her performing brief oral sex on him - that would classify as consent wouldn't it? Or are all the actions null and void when a woman is legitimately in a black-out?

I know the real problem here is my girlfriends relationship with alcohol. I know that. I don't think shes a cheater or a liar, I think she is an alcoholic. But she has addressed that. She has totally stopped drinking cold turkey to prove to me that I am the most important thing to her. And honestly, if something this bad hadn't happened, I don't know if she would have ever stopped drinking. So maybe it's a blessing in disguise. 

I so badly want to forget about it. I want to be with her, but my ego is hurt. She is a special woman and we are compatible in so many ways. I've told my family and some close friends about what happened and everyone thinks I should forgive her because everyone thinks she is a great girl - to me that also speaks volumes of her character.

So many people say "once a cheater, always a cheater" - and maybe that is true for someone who intentionally lies, decieves, and cheats. But what about a situation like this.. black-out drunk..immediate confession.. no sex... could this not be viewed as a mistake?

I am a forgiving person. I am not a black-and-white guy. But my god the pain is real. Is she a cheater, a victim, or both?  

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[MsJayne]

Any guy who offers to walk a blind drunk female home and then has sex with her, while she’s incapable of making the decision about whether or not she actually is consenting, is guilty of being a predatory creep. He most likely did premeditate having sex with her, but you’d have a hard time proving sexual assault because her drunkenness means she’s an unreliable source of information. She’s not a cheater, she’s an alcoholic, and she’s fixing that. Is she a victim? I say yes. But, like all drunk women who find themselves in that situation, (it’s very common), there is little she can do. The only solution is for women to stay sober enough to be in control in social situations because a lot of males are predatory and have zero conscience. 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Bongo said:

Our therapist, her friends, and my gut is telling me this is borderline sexual assault

And what does your girlfriend say about this? 

[smackie9]

It doesn't matter...what matters is how much you love this person...enough to forgive and have a stronger emotional connection with each other. If you can't wrap your head around that, then this will never work out for you. So no matter if we all say she was a victim, does that really change things for you? 

 

[Bongo]

39 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

And what does your girlfriend say about this? 

Her stance is this, "If one of my girlfriends came to me and told me this story, there is no way in hell I would blame them or call it cheating, but it's alot harder when your the one in that position"

She uses the phrase "I was taken advantage of". She doesn't (usually) call it assault. Rather she explains it like this: "I don't feel devoid of responsibility. Eventhough I had no intention or desire to hook up with him, I drank myself into oblivion, put myself in a terrible position, and allowed something to happen that shouldn't have happened."

She sounds disgusted and distraught whenever she talks of the man.

 

[Bongo]

43 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

It doesn't matter...what matters is how much you love this person...enough to forgive and have a stronger emotional connection with each other. If you can't wrap your head around that, then this will never work out for you. So no matter if we all say she was a victim, does that really change things for you? 

 

I love her more than any person I've ever met in my life. I've had other girlfriends, but never one like this...

I'm starting to feel guilty... its been 5 months and I still think about it. Somedays are good, and others are bad. Sometimes she can tell I'm thinking about it and it destroys her to see my pain. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm just here looking for validation from strangers. Someone to tell me I'm justified in staying with her through this. I don't know.

[basil67]

Consent can't be freely given if a person is heavily intoxicated.  It really is this simple.

Since this happened, she's stopped drinking and is in therapy, so it sounds like she's working at improving her life.  Kudos to her for that.   

Can I ask what you're thinking about when you're in so much pain?   Are you doubting her and feeling sorry for yourself?   Or are you upset that this happened to her?   As you say, your moods about this "destroy" her.   Hasn't she been though enough already?   Yes, you will think about it from time to time, but if you wish to stay together, you need to get a handle on your own moods.  She's showing strength in stopping drinking and doing therapy, so how about you match her strength?  

However, if you are unable to accept that she was violated when drunk - or you cannot avoid upsetting her with your moods - then for both your sakes it best you move on.   

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by basil67

[Bongo]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

 

Can I ask what you're thinking about when you're in so much pain?   Are you doubting her and feeling sorry for yourself?   Or are you upset that this happened to her?   As you say, your moods about this "destroy" her.   Hasn't she been though enough already?   Yes, you will think about it from time to time, but if you wish to stay together, you need to get a handle on your own moods.  She's showing strength in stopping drinking and doing therapy, so how about you match her strength? 

 

When I say "moods", by no means am saying that I guilt trip her or get angry at her. Its more sadness or almost a mild depressive state. I just have flashbacks sometimes, or mind movies (which are honestly probablly worse than what actually even happened). I think about the point when she said yes to going into the house with him and it hurts that the thought of me wasn't enough to stop her from making that mistake. But then again, you aren't really thinking in that state. You're just doing.

You are absolutely right. She has been through enough!! She is doing so much to show her strength and commitment to me. I need to match that. I need to show that I am strong enough to get over this, put my ego aside, and support her. I am going to do just that. Thank you for your comment. 

[smackie9]

If you love her like there's no tomorrow then you would be able to get past this. You both have changed from this experience> You both need to see the positives that came from this, and be grateful of the outcome. Be blessed you still have her in your life for the better. 

[Alpacalia]

Same thread I think:

My GF got blackout drunk, kissed another man, and told me about it. - Cheating, Flirting, and Jealousy - LoveShack.org

[salparadise]

3 hours ago, Bongo said:

I love her more than any person I've ever met in my life. I've had other girlfriends, but never one like this...

I'm starting to feel guilty... its been 5 months and I still think about it. Somedays are good, and others are bad. Sometimes she can tell I'm thinking about it and it destroys her to see my pain. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm just here looking for validation from strangers. Someone to tell me I'm justified in staying with her through this. I don't know.

I think that first sentence is your answer. She is truly remorseful, she has quit drinking. She accepts responsibility for her part.

What you have to do is turn off the pride and ego, and learn to be compassionate. As a man there is a certain type of machismo related to fidelity, and in some situations it may serve us well. But in this case, I think not. You'd be punishing yourself. You'd regret it. 

If this were an established pattern, or if she were the type to be deceitful and always working the angles then I'd think differently. What you have to watch out for with her is alcohol. Sounds like she's committed to being sober for now, but if she ever starts again it could be a problem. Alcohol is not an easy thing to quit permanently for those who are predisposed. I hope it works out for both of you.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Bongo said:

  I don't know if she would have ever stopped drinking. So maybe it's a blessing in disguise. 

Sorry this happened. It's definitely a terrible situation to deal with. However she seems to be making a commitment to sobriety and sometimes there's a "rock bottom" event that precipitates that.

[JTSW]

You posted this under a different username a few months ago.

5 months later and this is still playing heavy on your mind. 

It seems you just can't let it go.

She has more than proved herself the last few months by remaining sober and devoted.

As many people told you in the last post, that guy took advantage of her when she was blackout drunk and had no idea what was happening.

It has been proved that she has no romantic interest him at all.

Do you trust her? Because it sounds like you don't.

[Will am I]

What you experience as possible infidelity, I would qualify as attempted rape.

She did not cheat on you, she got drunk and in that vulnerable posion became the victim of sexual assault.

 

Get off your girlfriend's back about cheating. Work with her to conquer her alcohol problem instead.

 

(for the record: getting blackout drunk is by no means acceptable consumption of alcohol and a possible indication of alcoholism)

[Alpacalia]

Sadly, stuff like that does happen, even with random strangers.

In this case though, the guy that your girlfriend knew from work, and had built up enough of a rapport with to be comfortable walking home with him. And to go drinking with him.

And he felt comfortable enough with her to push his luck and go on the couch with her.

Maybe the man was a drink-spiking sexual predator or an unprincipled scumbag who equated a woman's drunkenness with consent. However, your girlfriend's certainty that she remembers him leaning in for a kiss and her acknowledgment that it was the biggest mistake of her life suggests there was more to it..

You did not cover, or perhaps did not consider, what kind of relationship your GF built up with the guy before the incident. He and she clearly knew and liked each other enough to consider being in close proximity (which is of course not proof of any romantic interest). Was their relationship such that it culminated in this event that your GF insists was consensual up until she stopped him and that she regretted the next morning?

I want to clarify that my point is not to blame a woman who was too intoxicated to refuse for "bringing it on herself."

I guess I am wondering about the basis of her implied consent with certain parts (at least the kiss leading up it). Did it stem from their brief interaction that night or from their prior relationship? Instead of acknowledging that she was taken advantage of, why did she assume full responsibility? It appears that this incident may have been an accident waiting to happen, possibly due to underlying issues that had been brewing for some time.

Certainly, the fact that the woman was intoxicated does not absolve the man who was sober and fully aware of the situation from escalating things to a point where she was not capable of making informed decisions, regardless of whether or not she had feelings for him.

That element of a pre-existing connection or relationship might explain why the guy involved felt obliged to call and provide his account of the incident. If there was no relationship, why would he bother doing that? Alternatively, was he acting as a predator, fabricating a story of a willing participant rather than admitting that he took advantage of a drunk woman by engaging in mutual oral sex before proceeding without her clear consent?

To me, I get the feeling of a friendship that crossed boundaries to become something else, and ended up in bed after a night of drinking, quite possibly with the woman being too drunk to know what she was doing.

I think the biggest 'tell' is that after she sobered up, she was not happy with what happened. It suggests that if she had been sober the night before, it would not have happened.

The big question, of course, is whether or not to take things forward, or call it a day. The fact that you have come to this forum, and not simply dropped your GF, suggests that you would like to see if things can work between you and your GF. That being the case, I think you should wait until you and your GF can spend prolonged time together, which it seems like you have not been able to do for the 2.5 years that you have been together outside of her drinking.

Be honest: how well do you really know each other? The issue being discussed is your GF's involvement with another man, whatever its nature was, and the incident that it led to. However, the real issue is whether or not you are truly suited to one another, and whether you will really gel as a couple. No-one can answer that. You will only know by trying it.

That begs the question, "Should I try it, after what she did?" The fact that you have not already made the decision indicates that you want to try it, so maybe you should, because that is how you feel. Can anyone give you a guarantee that if you try it, nothing will go wrong, and there will be no repeat performances? No. The truth is that every relationship is a gamble.

Nobody gets married thinking they have not picked a winner. On their wedding day, not a single person believed they had chosen the wrong partner. However, the realization that they may have made a mistake often comes later. It remains to be seen whether your girlfriend's close call will become a pattern of reckless sexual behavior or a learning experience that she never repeats. The outcome will only become clear with time.

When you get to spend some time together, it would be worth getting her to explain why, after her actions, she wants to continue the relationship with you, and where she thinks it is going. If this was a deal-breaker for you, you would be gone. As you are sticking around, why not treat it as a warning, and watch closely to see what lessons your GF has learnt from it?

If, long-term, she does not make you feel secure, or you find that you really do not - or cannot - have strong feelings for her anymore, then the best thing is to part and both of you look for other people to start afresh with. It is not so much "Will she cheat?" as "Will you ever feel safe loving and trusting her again?" Only you can answer that. If the answer is no, let her go.

She might have learnt a lesson, and be the best and most faithful life-partner in history, but if you do not feel comfortable with her, that will count for nothing. If you think you will live every day prepared to let her go, and so emotionally detached that you will shrug that off, then let her go now, because you will never make each other happy. Both of you deserve more than that.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Alpacalia

[PotatoHead]

I understand your pain.  Just know that it will lessen over time.  What's important is that she shows remorse, she has been fully honest with you, she is making changes to ensure something like this will never happen again.  She is in therapy to start healing the wounds from her past.  She is doing everything right and everything she can do.

It sounds like you have some healing to work on as well and you need to realize this part is not her responsibility, it is yours.  If you aren't in therapy already you should consider it, because this has caused you trauma and you may have something in your past too that is furthering your insecurity and inability to move past this.  I don't think 5 months is very long to still be feeling the pain though, it can take years and everyone heals at their own pace.  Your feelings are all valid, but I hope at some point you can start to see things differently and aren't letting them damage your relationship.

I truly believe that your GF never intended to hurt you.  One thing that helped me get over the pain is knowing that what happened had absolutely nothing to do with you, and it had nothing to do with him.  Only her, the issues and pain she has been dealing with are what caused this to happen.  She only every wanted to be with you and she is working to earn your trust again.  It takes times but eventually her actions will show you where her heart is at.  Trust in her actions now and know that she is a changed woman, not the same person who allowed herself into such a terrible situation.

Reassure her that you will make it through this in time, because you will.  Stay committed to working through it together.  Try to be strong.  You can do this and it will be worth it in the end.   This may be the wake up call she needed to finally put an end to the alcoholism.  Without making mistakes, we rarely learn or grow as individuals.  Try to look for the positives that will come from this when you one day will have overcome the pain.

Best of luck

Edited February 23, 2023 by PotatoHead

[Bongo]

7 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

You did not cover, or perhaps did not consider, what kind of relationship your GF built up with the guy before the incident.

I think this is part of the reason it has been hard for me to accept. If it was some random predator it would be easier to dismiss, but it wasn't. It was someone she knew for years and someone she had a friendship with. That said, I think the only reason she was in that position was because he wasn't a stranger. She trusted him.

Here is what I know about their friendship, they did not talk regularly while we have been together, but maybe once or twice a year they would send a message on social media, "happy birthday" "how's the new job" things like that.. 

Prior to us ever dating (like 5 or 6 years ago) they met for coffee once or twice.

This guy is a former professional athlete, and I think some insecure girl in her was proud to be his friend, some status maybe that came along with that. And with that, he sort of was in a position of power over her. 

I do know for sure that he also knew who I was, and that we were in a relationship. Although he told me, "I guess I just assumed you guys broke up"

She texted him the day after it happened, before the first phone call, to try and figure out what happened. She deleted this messages at first, but a couple of weeks later told me about it and recovered it. Word for word it went like this:

"I'm so sorry to be messaging you but I'm trying to piece together last night. I don't remember much but I have sinking feeling. I can't hide anything at all from my boyfriend so I told him that I remember you trying to kiss me when we were outside..? Im not sure if thats entirely true or not. Can you please text me back when you get this? I want to be honest with him but I'm also so terrified that he will never forgive me and he is literally the best thing to ever happen to me. I don't know WTF happened but it shouldn't have."

[Bongo]

5 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

Try to be strong.  You can do this and it will be worth it in the end

Thank you mate. It's nice to hear that it's not ab-normal to still have these feelings at the 5 month mark... 

And you're right, I do have some traumas from my past - being cheated on from a previous GF - maybe I'm holding on to thoes feelings subconsciously. 

[Alpacalia]

7 hours ago, Bongo said:

I think this is part of the reason it has been hard for me to accept. If it was some random predator it would be easier to dismiss, but it wasn't. It was someone she knew for years and someone she had a friendship with. That said, I think the only reason she was in that position was because he wasn't a stranger. She trusted him.

Here is what I know about their friendship, they did not talk regularly while we have been together, but maybe once or twice a year they would send a message on social media, "happy birthday" "how's the new job" things like that.. 

Prior to us ever dating (like 5 or 6 years ago) they met for coffee once or twice.

This guy is a former professional athlete, and I think some insecure girl in her was proud to be his friend, some status maybe that came along with that. And with that, he sort of was in a position of power over her. 

I do know for sure that he also knew who I was, and that we were in a relationship. Although he told me, "I guess I just assumed you guys broke up"

She texted him the day after it happened, before the first phone call, to try and figure out what happened. She deleted this messages at first, but a couple of weeks later told me about it and recovered it. Word for word it went like this:

"I'm so sorry to be messaging you but I'm trying to piece together last night. I don't remember much but I have sinking feeling. I can't hide anything at all from my boyfriend so I told him that I remember you trying to kiss me when we were outside..? Im not sure if thats entirely true or not. Can you please text me back when you get this? I want to be honest with him but I'm also so terrified that he will never forgive me and he is literally the best thing to ever happen to me. I don't know WTF happened but it shouldn't have."

It's clear that you are going through a difficult time in trying to come to terms with what happened between your girlfriend and this other guy. It is commendable that your girlfriend has taken steps to address her issues with alcohol and is seeking counseling for her childhood traumas and boundaries with men.

Regarding the incident, it does seem like your girlfriend was not in a position to give full and informed consent due to her level of intoxication. It is also possible that she was coerced or pressured into engaging in sexual acts. The fact that the other guy has tried to pursue your girlfriend in the past and that she has turned him down before does suggest that she was not interested in him in a sober state.

It's normal to feel hurt and struggling with the idea of forgiving your girlfriend. Make sure that you take the time you need to process your emotions and thoughts about the situation.

Ultimately, the decision to forgive your girlfriend and continue the relationship or to end things is yours. Keep having honest conversations with your girlfriend about your feelings and concerns, and make sure to set clear boundaries and expectations moving forward.

[PotatoHead]

18 hours ago, Bongo said:

Thank you mate. It's nice to hear that it's not ab-normal to still have these feelings at the 5 month mark... 

And you're right, I do have some traumas from my past - being cheated on from a previous GF - maybe I'm holding on to thoes feelings subconsciously. 

That's exactly it.  Being betrayed in that way alters our brain chemistry.  It is a severe type of trauma that takes a lot of self work to overcome.  It is the exact same thing that I have experienced.  Even though my current partner cheated to a much lesser extent than previous ones, it's the one that hurt the most.  It took about a year for the almost constant pain and paranoia to subside.  Two years later things still pop up from time to time, but it does get better if you're willing to work on it.  Counseling has been a major help for me.  It's important to recognize that everyone heals at their own pace.  Don't worry about how long it takes to stop hurting, just focus on making progress and small victories.

Edited February 24, 2023 by PotatoHead

[Bongo]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:23 PM, Alpacalia said:

 

You did not cover, or perhaps did not consider, what kind of relationship your GF built up with the guy before the incident. He and she clearly knew and liked each other enough to consider being in close proximity (which is of course not proof of any romantic interest). Was their relationship such that it culminated in this event that your GF insists was consensual up until she stopped him and that she regretted the next morning?

I want to clarify that my point is not to blame a woman who was too intoxicated to refuse for "bringing it on herself."

Instead of acknowledging that she was taken advantage of, why did she assume full responsibility? It appears that this incident may have been an accident waiting to happen, possibly due to underlying issues that had been brewing for some time.

That element of a pre-existing connection or relationship might explain why the guy involved felt obliged to call and provide his account of the incident. 

I think you should wait until you and your GF can spend prolonged time together

Be honest: how well do you really know each other? The issue being discussed is your GF's involvement with another man, whatever its nature was, and the incident that it led to. However, the real issue is whether or not you are truly suited to one another, and whether you will really gel as a couple. No-one can answer that. You will only know by trying it.

 

[ ] 

My GF is not insisting this was consensual.

She did acknowledge that she was taken advantage of.

The guy only provided his account of the incident after we asked him to - he did not do so voluntarily on his own accord. 

My GF and I live together and have spent prolonged time together.

Edited February 27, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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