Worries about unstable ex-wife

[PotatoHead]

My ex-wife and I have been separated for nearly 3 years now, divorce papers were first filed 2 years ago and it's all been finalized.  We are coparenting 3 kids together.

The main reasons I left the marriage are because she was emotionally abusive (rarely physically), controlling, and manipulative.  She would have crazy outbursts and tantrums over the smallest of things, almost like a child.  She was an alcohol abuser and always struggled with depression and anxiety for which she refused to seek help.  She would rather blame me for all of her problems and anger.   I often thought she might be NPD or bi-polar.  We were together for 10 years and I always tried my hardest to make her happy and give her and the kids everything they wanted, until I finally realized that she would never be happy and I had lost every bit of who I was and pretty much all joy in life was gone.

Fast forward to now, I think we are both much happier after the divorce.  I admittedly made the mistake of jumping into another relationship right away, with someone who I started talking to while we were separated but still living together.  She has decided to stay single and has said she is happier that way.  The first year or longer was very turbulent, she would still try to have outbursts and throw tantrums at me either over the phone or in person.  I was apologetic for things being the way they were, for the divorce, for everything.  But eventually I couldn't be her emotional punching bag anymore, I figured she needed to move on and it was also affecting my new relationship.  So I started ignoring her when she would act up.

Over the last year things got quite a bit better.  She seemed to calm down and be happier, to stop blaming me for everything.  We settled into coparenting and were cordial with each other for a long time, aside from occasional small arguments.   Recently everything was going great and we actually both apologized to each other for our past.  I thought we were going to put it all behind us.  

Now it seems as if it has all come undone because of one accident run-in between my ex and my current GF.  They both happened to be in the same public place at the same time with their kids.  My ex called me right afterwards, hysterical.   She accused me of setting the whole thing up just to hurt her.  Granted I knew there was a possibility of them being in the same place but I didn't know what time, so didn't think it would be worth mentioning to her.  I also thought that after 2 years it wouldn't trigger such a reaction just for her to see my current GF.

I tried to apologize to my ex and calm her down, but she just got more and more worked up.  To the point she said she is having suicidal thoughts again.  She started saying awful things about me, my GF, and even my GF's kids.  At which point I told her I wasn't going to stay on the phone and listen to it, so I hung up and set it to do not disturb.  She continued to try calling and messaging me for a while.  Now today I haven't heard anything.

I don't really understand it and I don't know what to do about her.  I worry about her mental state, especially when she is with the kids, but she just continues to say that her emotional hysteria is all my fault.  She refuses to get any kind of professional help.  Am I wrong to think that she is being a bit drastic to react so harshly?  Just the other day we were making amends and she was saying she respected my GF and I's relationship.  It feels like she is just trying to manipulate me emotionally like she always has, but I am not sure what to make of it.

Edited March 8, 2023 by PotatoHead

[stillafool]

Why does your ex hate your gf so much that she can't even see her out without becoming hysterical?  Did you leave your wife for your girlfriend?  

Your ex's actions towards you and your gf are unreasonable.  It's clear she isn't as happy being divorced as you think she is.  

When you said your gf was out with the kids; were you also saying your ex ran into your gf with her own kids or your kids?  If the latter most women do not want to see another woman with their kids and that is why she was hysterical.  She's never seen that before.

Edited March 8, 2023 by stillafool

[PotatoHead]

I'm sure my ex believes that is part of why I left her, but she has acknowledged all of the problems we had in our marriage and said she understands why I wanted out also.  But no, I was already done with my marriage and we had separated before my friendship with the new GF turned into more.  Still, I can understand the sting when I moved on so quickly, I just thought that after this much time has passed she would not feel so much pain.  She goes into these paranoid thoughts that my GF and I go to these great lengths just to torment her, which is simply not the case.  I wish her nothing but happiness.

My ex was with our kids, my GF was with her own kids.

[BrinnM]

I’m sure your ex-W is trying, hence the positive conversation the other day. However, it appears that she gets triggered by certain things, seeing your GF being one of them. Had she not run I to her, everything would probably still be fine-ish at the moment (until the next trigger).

So, IMO: Your new relationship is the main trigger for her, because your xW knows or has an inkling that it was the real reason why you guys got divorced. I know you say there were problems and the new GF was just the last push that you needed to jump ship, but in your ex-wife’s mind, you got everything you wanted, and perhaps she didn’t, and that’s not fair in her mind. You can push these thoughts aside, as long as you’re not confronted with tangible things that remind you of the “unfairness”. Even if she’s glad the marriage is over, and even if she’s not jealous, and even if she doesn’t want you back, she wasn’t the one who left. The decision was made for her, and that’s a tough pill to swallow. She’ll get used to it eventually, but for the next few years she’ll be triggered for sure if she’s confronted with your new life and the people in it. 

Like I said, she might be trying, but don’t expect her to be happy for you. She will never be 100% happy for you, unless maybe when you’re both much older and/or she’s found a new partner whom she’s head of heels in love with. Other than that - not.happening. 
She also gave up a lot “for you”, if I remember correctly, with the move to a different state and such. I’m sure that’s not helping, either, especially with no family there, and if she’s still in the process of finding a new friend circle, that can be stressful as well. She’s got nobody else to vent to, really…….can’t be easy. Cut her some slack.

[basil67]

@PotatoHead you've just re-written the time line of your history with the then OW.  In Oct '21 you wrote 

My girlfriend and I had an unconventional relationship for a long time.  We were both married when we met online, and long distance on top of that.  But after talking nonstop for months we realized we had an incredible connection, and how unhappy we were with our marriages.  We fell in love and ended up leaving our spouses so we could be together.  We both had agreed that we were basically soul mates and still do to this day, it's been almost 2 years now.   We were perfect for each other, or at least I thought we were.

This clearly shows that you made a romantic connection before deciding that your marriage was over.   Yes, I get that the marriage was terrible, your ex was nuts and you needed to leave, however, doing this in the order you did was only ever going to exacerbate the situation.  To make it worse, you were involved in moving your wife and kids near to where your new partner is.  

Now, this background isn't helpful in dealing with your ex-wife's issues at present, but there should be some understanding on that your actions have consquences. You made some really bad choices with an already unstable woman and her ongoing anger is understandable.

My best advice would be that you and your new partner could move further away from your wife so that she doesn't run into your new partner and be reminded of the infidelity

 

[Acacia98]

Is it possible for you to get advice from a mental health professional and from a legal professional regarding your situation? If your ex has partial custody of your kids and continues to be this unstable (including being suicidal), then their safety and well-being are at risk. Find out what you can legally and ethically do to safeguard their status. I find it impossible to talk about anything else until this is addressed.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Acacia98

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

She goes into these paranoid thoughts that my GF and I go to these great lengths just to torment her.

How are your children doing? Do they mention problems at home? Try to cut back on any talk about your personal lives. Try to steer the conversions to focus solely on the children. Your ex wife doesn't need to approve of or hear about your  relationships.

[Will am I]

There seems to be a negative dynamic between your ex wife’s psychological issues (the description you give here depicts an emotionally unstable and immature person and rings the bells for possible BPD) and the way you handled the situation (backing out, becoming emotionally unavailable, seeking and ultimately finding solace in another woman’s arms, the word “soulmate” is the most telltale word in the book, and ultimately leaving your marriage to be with the other woman rather quickly).

 

What is good is that your xW realizes (in her stable moments) that she’s happer outside a relationship and without the emotional triggers that inevitably come from a relationship. Some people just aren’t “marriage material”, your xW may be one of them.

 

What is really bad is that there was an area where her inflated emotions of insecurity were actually legit and she’s been invalidated. She got triggered by the fear that you might be replacing her with another woman, she was actually right about that, and yet she does not get recognition. I think this is the reason she has trouble putting the past to rest.

[JTSW]

You can't help her.

The only person who can help her is HER.

You claim innocence but you hurt her, and running into your GF reminded her of that. 

You need to stop the contact and go through someone else for arrangements for your kids.

[stillafool]

So you did leave your wife for the OW who is now your gf.  Your wife is still upset about it which is somewhat understandable.  I agree you need to move out of your wife's neighborhood.  Maybe you should make arrangements for someone else to collect the kids from your ex and take them back so your ex no longer has to be exposed to you.  That's the least you could do.

[Lotsgoingon]

I feel for you. You are out-matched in a nasty war---and apparently you are still in denial.

At least one half of you is in denial. There is the husband side of you (soon to be ex) who says she was abusive, an alcoholic, prone to ranges and reading your words carefully sometimes physically abusive as well. And there is this co-parent half of wondering, asking if her recent action was over the top. Can you get the husband in you to talk to the co-parent? The husband would not be surprised in the least by this behavior and yet the co-parent seems cluelessly naive.

As others have said, seeing the OW with the children (also your children) was a trigger. You said you didn't anticipate this encounter. Well, it's time for you to anticipate! Abusers are highly insecure and pathologically jealous. Male abusers are always claiming victimhood and accusing their spouses of cheating or looking or even thinking of cheating. Your soon-to-be ex is following this script. 

Sometimes we are in a war even though we don't want to be in the war. This can happen between countries. But the school-yard bully also targets their victims without provocation. The target of the bully doesn't want to be at war, but they are! And they have to come out of denial and start thinking realistically about how they can survive. Your first step is to drop this nonsense of I don't really understand it and I don't know what to do about her. Puh-lease! And drop this nonsense as well: Recently everything was going great and we actually both apologized to each other for our past.  I thought we were going to put it all behind us.  Your children are watching you and they are absorbing every bit of this meanness that they see their father subjected to. You are not helping them with your cluelessness niceness.

You partnered with someone abusive. You continued in this marriage with the abuser. You left only because there was this other person. Ideally you would have left and fought to take the children with you because you simply weren't going to tolerate the abuse or allow your children to grow up in an abusive household.  You need to get to that mindset if you want to be happy and if you want your kids to escape the damage brought about by your ex.

I recommend counseling and therapy because you are engaging in the classic abused spouse behavior of trying to pacify her and reason with an unreasonable person. you can't afford it, get to a priest or minister. Dig out an old teacher or coach from your past. Tell them you are in an emergency. You need to gather around you the best people you know and tap their brains. If you can't do this for yourself, do this for your children!

Taking these steps will be scary but it's time you learn how to protect yourself and protect your children.

 

[Freya229]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

So you did leave your wife for the OW who is now your gf.  Your wife is still upset about it which is somewhat understandable.  I agree you need to move out of your wife's neighborhood.  Maybe you should make arrangements for someone else to collect the kids from your ex and take them back so your ex no longer has to be exposed to you.  That's the least you could do.

This.  The passive way you talk about the damage you did betraying your wife and having an affair and then dumping her for someone new, coupled with your insistence that she's just crazy, seems like you absolving yourself of any responsibility for your failed marriage.  You humiliated her in a cruel and hateful way and are now flaunting that humiliation in her face every chance you get.  Perhaps you are too self absorbed to see it, but that is precisely what you are doing.  I agree with @stillafool, you were terrible to your wife and it's hateful that you insist on continually humiliating her day after day after day, so move out of her neighborhood and stay away from her.  

[mark clemson]

23 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

I tried to apologize to my ex and calm her down, but she just got more and more worked up.  To the point she said she is having suicidal thoughts again.  She started saying awful things about me, my GF, and even my GF's kids.  At which point I told her I wasn't going to stay on the phone and listen to it, so I hung up and set it to do not disturb.  She continued to try calling and messaging me for a while.  Now today I haven't heard anything.

I don't really understand it and I don't know what to do about her.  I worry about her mental state, especially when she is with the kids, but she just continues to say that her emotional hysteria is all my fault.  She refuses to get any kind of professional help.  Am I wrong to think that she is being a bit drastic to react so harshly? 

You're not wrong, her reactions are out of proportion to the situation. It seems to me she may have problems that are "above your pay grade"?

If she refuses to get professional help (which it sounds like she may need), there may be little you can do about this. "You can bring a horse to water..."

A genuine active suicide threat is probably most appropriately addressed by calling emergency services/911.

Edited March 9, 2023 by mark clemson

[Stret]

OP, you went completely silent since the infidelity came out. To me, it seems like there might be a lot on your part that contributed to the situation, that you might have tormented her in some way throughout your relationship so she lost her sanity (loosely speaking) - that happens to people when they meet someone who doesn't acknowledge their needs and pretends that everything is ok while everything is burning. It can drive a normal person nuts. 

 

[PotatoHead]

Not trying to downplay the pain that I caused her at all.  I've taken full responsibility for what I did, and I know that no matter how bad things were in the marriage I could've handled it better and should have given more time before starting into another relationship.  I know that it caused her trauma and she didn't deserve that, I have told her that.  I was a very unhealthy person before all of this, I didn't know how to communicate my needs or set boundaries in our marriage.  I was a people pleaser which made things a lot worse given her controlling nature.  But no, not just trying to paint her as crazy, she definitely was/is and no matter what anyone is going through, I don't believe any mature adult should act out or behave the way she has.  On multiple occasions over the years she attempted physical abuse, had screaming fits of rage, caused damage to physical property, committed herself to the ER for suicidal thoughts and was sent to a detox center, got arrested for putting holes through a wall and threatening me while the kids were in the house, the list goes on.

But I digress.  Also not trying to change the timeline.  Yes there was overlap, I met the new GF as part of an online community while still married.  We became friends.  We talked some about our problems at home.  But I told my wife I wanted to separate before it grew into a relationship.  We had already had plans of relocating and I chose a location nearby my new GF before my ex knew she existed.   I know should have waited until after the divorce.  I know I should not have moved us here.  Hindsight is 20/20 and I live with guilt every single day and I have apologized endlessly and done everything I can to help my ex settle in to a new life.

I see now that given the way things unfolded, my ex will probably never get over it or not be triggered by my new relationship.  As someone said she seems very insecure and jealous but also the pain is understandable.  I guess in my mind after years have passed I personally would be trying to let things go and move on with my own life.  I realize now that is not enough time and that time may never come for her.  

[Lotsgoingon]

I do not think your ex's behavior is understandable.  Her actions are understandable for a highly troubled person. 

Of course, you weren't perfect in this relationship. Yes, your affair triggered her but she was triggered many times all along, if I'm reading things right. You weren't perfect, (if you were, you wouldn't have married her) but that's not reason to deny how toxic she is and how dangerous she might be. Reading your original words, I assumed she was abusive all along, but now reading your response I'm not sure.

Was your wife abusive and unhinged before she learned of the affair? And by the time she screamed at you, you had been separated for three years--is that correct? And she knew about the new relationship for some time--is that right?

You cannot rescue her from whatever pain she has before the affair and since the affair. Her suicidal thoughts are not your responsibility. Lots of folks (my ex did this) threaten suicide in order to manipulate their partners and ex partners. Time to forgive yourself at this point. In fact, she likely threw that suicidal threat out there because in the past, she knew you, as a people pleaser, would fall to that manipulation. You would back off of whatever sane boundaries you were trying to set. Am I right?

If she does the unthinkable at this point, that is NOT because of the affair. That's because she is troubled and has long been troubled. That's the truth it's time to face. 

 

[LynneVicious]

 Not only is being a victim of infidelity traumatic, but when you add in gaslighting and made to think you’re crazy, it can really do a number in you. 

Sounds like your ex wife already had mental health issues and the infidelity traumatized her and brought it to another level. Now she’s close to you and the ap and needs to see her around town. It’s a trigger for her every time and she responds to the trauma. 

would be better to acknowledge your part in this more than the watered down history rewriting you’ve done above. Because if you’re still doing that to her, she certainly cannot heal. So you can help her somewhat by being honest and removing the source of her trauma by making yourself and the ap scarce. 

[BrinnM]

1 hour ago, PotatoHead said:

We had already had plans of relocating and I chose a location nearby my new GF before my ex knew she existed. 

That’s rough. On your xW, that is.
When exactly was it that she found out that your new GF lived in that exact state/town that you chose to move yourself, your wife, and your three children to? I’m not sure if she’s aware that you’d been talking to somebody else for a while, before the move. I personally would feel quite humiliated and angry if I had moved somewhere else with my (ex-)H, under false pretenses, just to find out later why the location was chosen - for him to be closer to the new lover. That’s so inconsiderate, callous and cold. I’m not surprised, and I’m sorry to use that word, but I’m not surprised that she hates you. Or does she still think you met the OW there, after the move?

Either way, I personally think what you did was brutal, and if your children ever find out the truth, man, you’ll have the worst emotional stress. What you’re going through now with your ex will seem like a cakewalk to you. I wish you luck. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by BrinnM

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

she definitely was/is and no matter what anyone is going through, I don't believe any mature adult should act out or behave the way she has.  On multiple occasions over the years she attempted physical abuse, had screaming fits of rage, caused damage to physical property, committed herself to the ER for suicidal thoughts and was sent to a detox center, got arrested for putting holes through a wall and threatening me while the kids were in the house, the list goes on.

So she's done all of this yet you let her have custody of the kids?  I know if my spouse carried on the way you describe above I would not trust her with my children.  So that makes this hard for me to believe.

[IrinaM]

On 3/8/2023 at 1:17 PM, PotatoHead said:

She accused me of setting the whole thing up just to hurt her.  Granted I knew there was a possibility of them being in the same place but I didn't know what time, so didn't think it would be worth mentioning to her.

I'm sorry but you mishandled this whole "same place at the same time" thing. I'm curious-was this a kids' soccer game or school play or something?

This is a mistress that you abandoned your marriage for. If you know your ex-wife will be at an event  with your children on a particular day, you should ask your current girlfriend not to show up there. It's the least you could do.

[glows]

I’d be concerned about the children. What you did was wrong chatting up another woman online while married but so many people do it while exiting an unhappy marriage. You’re not the first, you certainly won’t be the last. I’m not surprised if my ex husband did it too. Never bothered checking on him.

Your present girlfriend shouldn’t keep having to pay for your past either. I don’t see how you can constantly monitor and control their whereabouts and be chaperoning or guiding these adult women where not to go. Your ex has always been unstable and rude. Just focus on your kids and don’t bother playing nice guy all the time. It’s natural to worry. Focus on the kids. 

[spiritedaway2003]

Your infidelity was something that happened. The consequence:  divorce (comes at a high price).  No doubt that it has caused her pain and you guilt.  But you also don't need to to live in the past forever -- it's also not a very healthy place to be. 

Limit contacts with your ex, except when it comes to the children.  No reminiscing about the past because it's just going to keep bringing back up what "was".  Just because you had a couple of good conversations doesn't mean it's water under the bridge.  The pain/hurt/healing -- as you should know - is not all linear process.

I can see why you would be concerned  - she is still someone you care about.  If you ex is she is in serious harm, then call 911.   You and your GF also need to be able to move forward with your lives as well.  Do your best to avoid being at the same place at the same time.  Do not share anything relating to your dating/relationship life (not relevant to her) nor ask about hers (not relevant to you).  Keep things separate, just like most do when going through a breakup.  Only be in contact about logistics and care about the kids.  If handoff with kids can be done without seeing other, then do so.

In the case of an infidelity, it's a little naive to think that you could have a amicable relationship post divorce.  She has her faults in the marriage just as you did.  The affair may be the push you need, but the trauma can cause a lot pain and resentment.   Realistically, It will take a long time, if ever for her to be happy for you when it comes to your relationship. The resentment may be less intense if she finds someone who really makes her happy.  Until then, reset your expectations.

It is also her job to take care of her own emotional health, just as it is yours.  Her reaction, while understandable, is outsized.  For you, do everything you can to minimize unnecessary contact and possible run-in.  You know now that it's a trigger for your ex, it sours the relationship with you, and it's unfair to to your GF.  Your kids will suffer the impact and more likely to take sides.  Learn from it.  In the meantime, there's not much you can do other than limit contact and let the storm pass.  Good luck.

[PotatoHead]

Thanks for all the responses, it has been enlightening.  To answer one point, no she did not start acting out just after she found out about infidelity.  The actions I mentioned happened throughout the entire course of our 10 year relationship.  She also engaged in emotional affairs on several occasions and one physical affair during our marriage, which caused me trauma as well.  And no, I'm not saying this to take the spotlight off of the things I've done.  I should've recognized the issues early on and ended the relationship, or certainly not gotten married and had kids thinking things would eventually improve.

I am happy it's all over with but I wish the kids didn't have to go through it all and now deal with knowing about our wrongdoings.  She has no problem smearing me in front of the kids but I won't do the same to her, they don't need to hear about everything she did during our marriage.  So yes, it will be a long road ahead but we have at least come pretty far already.  I'm hopeful that eventually we can all move on with our lives and put the past behind us.  I just wish there were more I could do to help that along.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

The actions I mentioned happened throughout the entire course of our 10 year relationship. 

 

20 hours ago, PotatoHead said:

On multiple occasions over the years she attempted physical abuse, had screaming fits of rage, caused damage to physical property, committed herself to the ER for suicidal thoughts and was sent to a detox center, got arrested for putting holes through a wall and threatening me while the kids were in the house, the list goes on.

Again, why did you not seek full custody of the children with her receiving visitation knowing how unstable she is by your description above?  Why would you leave and then leave the children there?

[Lotsgoingon]

I'm really hoping you can let go of this "I'm also at fault" refrain.  

Yes, that would be relevant in a different relationship with someone who wasn't abusive. Not relevant here. What's relevant now is protecting yourself and your children from someone who can be nasty and vicious and who threatens to kill herself. 

What steps are you going to take to protect yourself and your children?