Positive versus Realist

[ZA Dater]

Do you think that maybe as people our beliefs limits our eventual outcomes? 

Do you think believing in an outcome makes it more likely than taking a realist/pessimistic approach? All this ties into something profound I experienced earlier this week, people describe me as negative, I describe myself as realistic, whether there is a difference is debatable to me but nevertheless.

I woke up on Tuesday and realised that maybe some of my life views are self limiting, I then asked myself if it would be possible to replace pessimism with a more positive "It can work" approach. Here I am meaning life in general and challenges all of us face day to day. 

I'll admit this changed my week drastically because the issues I faced were less issues and there was a sense that I can get a positive outcome irrespective the difficulty of the task at hand, whereas before I would have taken a "realistic" approach and merely focused on the problem and got lost in that.

Getting lost in a problem brings a lot of negative which I never really saw before. Ultimately its a "I can" approach rather than "I cant approach". Its difficult to not get lost in old habits but I am going to try carry this forward because I found it made a big difference in my day to day life. 

[NuevoYorko]

Of course.  It's not an opinion, it's a fact.  A positive attitude is more constructive in all ways than a negative one.  

[Weezy1973]

Realistic is whatever you believe. If your beliefs are negative - I can't, I'll never, it'll never work out, nobody will love me for who I am etc. - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And similarly with positive beliefs - and I don't mean imaginary fantasy land  beliefs, like "I don't have to save for retirement because I believe I'll win the lottery". But more along the lines of I can accomplish what I want if I work hard at it, people will love me exactly for who I am (even if not everybody does), things have a way of working out in the end (even if there is some struggling in the short term). And that's because the world is filtered through our beliefs. As the saying goes - we don't see the world as it is; we see it as we are.

[Alpacalia]

This is tricky...if you have a safety net, go ahead and be idealistic. If you don't have a safety net, then be realistic.

Then ask yourself "am I all I have?" If the answer is yes, then you have no safetynet, and if you make a mistake, you're homeless.

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Realistic is whatever you believe. If your beliefs are negative - I can't, I'll never, it'll never work out, nobody will love me for who I am etc. - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And similarly with positive beliefs - and I don't mean imaginary fantasy land  beliefs, like "I don't have to save for retirement because I believe I'll win the lottery". But more along the lines of I can accomplish what I want if I work hard at it, people will love me exactly for who I am (even if not everybody does), things have a way of working out in the end (even if there is some struggling in the short term). And that's because the world is filtered through our beliefs. As the saying goes - we don't see the world as it is; we see it as we are.

Agree with this, I think I just what I realized was something I thought was negative, actually was not and actually a huge benefit actually so I made me look at things in general.  I always thought myself as realist towards being pessimistic but if I pour some "Ok I can do that" into day to day life I have found I look at things differently. Its a case of trying to maintain this in what is really a very chaotic life spent trying to keep many people happy.

[basil67]

38 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Its a case of trying to maintain this in what is really a very chaotic life spent trying to keep many people happy.

Is this what you want your life to like?  That's fine if you do, I just can't tell if you're happy with it

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Is this what you want your life to like?  That's fine if you do, I just can't tell if you're happy with it

Good question. Its all I know so the alternative is an unknown.  There are positive points because there a certain feel good to keeping others happy and I wont lie many of these people live good lives so there is a certain degree of vicarious living.

The problem is I have a front row seat for any problems and to try and support people through these but this can become a negative environment which creates certain beliefs. Equally I also have a front row seat to any success and often I am a contributor to that.

I always feel good helping in any way I can, "no" is not something I say often.  Of course it can be difficult to remain positive when I put the problems of others on my shoulders and it can be mentally tiring. Loyalty, selflessness and trust are perhaps the three attributes which define me.

I'll walk to the end of the earth for those closest to me. This positive versus realist is quite important to me because someone put an idea on the table last week, ordinarily my first thought would have been to dismiss it on some realist notion but instead my approach is going to be "why not, lets try". Maybe there is something to be said to focusing less on the potential downside and more on the upside.

[Alpacalia]

To improve your approach to problem-solving, try shifting your focus towards actively seeking solutions rather than solely focusing on yourself. Talking about yourself endlessly versus making this shift in your approach, you may discover that you are better equipped to tackle the challenges at hand and achieve more favorable results.

Truly, this is a very self-centered way of living.

Positive thinking and realism both strive to help people find solutions to challenges and opportunities. Realism focuses on preparedness for any outcome, while positive thinking emphasizes looking at life optimistically. Both approaches involve accepting situations as they are and preparing accordingly, yet one encourages hope while the other emphasizes caution.

[mark clemson]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:03 AM, ZA Dater said:

Do you think that maybe as people our beliefs limits our eventual outcomes?

Certainly they can, depending on the specifics (i.e., what the beliefs are, what the desired outcome is, etc).

Someone who genuinely believes the earth is flat will never try to send a satellite into orbit around it, since that couldn't work.

People experience confirmation bias and similar expectation-related biases all the time...

 

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Certainly they can, depending on the specifics (i.e., what the beliefs are, what the desired outcome is, etc).

Someone who genuinely believes the earth is flat will never try to send a satellite into orbit around it, since that couldn't work.

People experience confirmation bias and similar expectation-related biases all the time...

 

For me I am challenging myself re confirmation bias in terms of life in general and trying to see the grey areas more, its difficult but since I started this I will admit my days have been more interesting and my mind a lot clearer re decisions and possibilities.

I think maybe the problem with being too realist is its easy to see all the bad and none of the good.

 

[basil67]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think maybe the problem with being too realist is its easy to see all the bad and none of the good.

You're actually describing pessimism here.  And yes, pessimism is a bad place to be

 

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

You're actually describing pessimism here.  And yes, pessimism is a bad place to be

 

Look it is very hard to avoid falling into that trap. Each of us has challenges in our lives and its sometimes difficult to see past those which makes it easy to fall into the negative trap. For me the one big challenge is a lack of a support system, I mentally support many people but there is nobody I can really open up to. 

I am really, really trying to keep a more rounded outlook, each day its a challenge and I need to force myself to keep going. Its odd because in some respects I have a very ambitious view of things  but this is tempered by set backs, work is pretty much all consuming and working with friends adds another dimension. 

What I am trying to do is divorce the result from the process and try take the good out of the process rather than putting all the good in the result. 

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 there is nobody I can really open up to. 

If you have health insurance, see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

You do have people you can talk to candidly and confidentiality. Especially professionals who will listen without judgement and help steer you in a less distressful direction. 

 

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If you have health insurance, see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

You do have people you can talk to candidly and confidentiality. Especially professionals who will listen without judgement and help steer you in a less distressful direction. 

 

No thanks. That is not the support I am looking for, the support I am looking for is someone who actually cares rather than someone looking to fleece me on a per hour basis. I suppose the support I actually want is what is know to most others as: friends.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I suppose the support I actually want is what is know to most others as: friends.

You've been talking about the idea of hanging out with an attractive woman (the athletic brunette) because being with someone attractive would make you feel better inside - but that's not how friendships work.  Friends make us feel good not because of how they look, but in who they are and how much we enjoy their company.    Honestly, you won't find good female friends until you start to find value in the person, not the appearance. 

Perhaps while you're working on your change in attitude, how about you add the concept of learning to value a person for who they are?   You might find that you start to build a solid friendship group.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

You've been talking about the idea of hanging out with an attractive woman (the athletic brunette) because being with someone attractive would make you feel better inside - but that's not how friendships work.  Friends make us feel good not because of how they look, but in who they are and how much we enjoy their company.    Honestly, you won't find good female friends until you start to find value in the person, not the appearance. 

Perhaps while you're working on your change in attitude, how about you add the concept of learning to value a person for who they are?   You might find that you start to build a solid friendship group.

 

This is unlikely to happen in this context because I am not valued as such, the scars from this are very telling with me and they wont just vanish. The damage done is substantial and wont bore you with the details. Suffice to say there are lots of experiences which were very negative and the mostly revolved around the way people treated me. Ultimately I'd love to be valued for who I am but I accept that is unlikely to ever happen. I can just try make everything around this as positive as I can.

I need to find people relatable and most do not relate to me so the friendships I have one quite one sided, in that its me the ever dependable, honest, supportive but rarely do things go the other way.

Honestly I do not find most people very accepting, judging yes, accepting no and yes I too judge. Each day now I try see the good side in something, I try to jot down thoughts in a journal I keep, I try see the value around me even if I never feel truly valued, if I can add value that feeling is offset to a degree.

Positive, and feel good I think are quite different, for me at least, I can be positive about a project but not feel that good about it. A good conversation can make me feel really good, a warm friendly person can make me feel good. Maybe I am wrong but positive is a point of view, feel good is a feeling.

 

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

No thanks. That is not the support I am looking for, the support I am looking for is someone who actually cares rather than someone looking to fleece me on a per hour basis. I suppose the support I actually want is what is know to most others as: friends.

While friends are a great source of support, it's not their job to be therapists. It's important to seek out professional help when dealing with deep emotional issues.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

While friends are a great source of support, it's not their job to be therapists. It's important to seek out professional help when dealing with deep emotional issues.

Thank you. My version of support is a simple "How are you today", would nice to get this every so often.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

This is unlikely to happen in this context because I am not valued as such, the scars from this are very telling with me and they wont just vanish. The damage done is substantial and wont bore you with the details. Suffice to say there are lots of experiences which were very negative and the mostly revolved around the way people treated me. Ultimately I'd love to be valued for who I am but I accept that is unlikely to ever happen. I can just try make everything around this as positive as I can.

I need to find people relatable and most do not relate to me so the friendships I have one quite one sided, in that its me the ever dependable, honest, supportive but rarely do things go the other way.

Honestly I do not find most people very accepting, judging yes, accepting no and yes I too judge. Each day now I try see the good side in something, I try to jot down thoughts in a journal I keep, I try see the value around me even if I never feel truly valued, if I can add value that feeling is offset to a degree.

Positive, and feel good I think are quite different, for me at least, I can be positive about a project but not feel that good about it. A good conversation can make me feel really good, a warm friendly person can make me feel good. Maybe I am wrong but positive is a point of view, feel good is a feeling.

 

I think that you may have missed that my comment is about how you view others.  About how you seem to care more for the looks of someone who would take the time to be with you than for who they are.  You're not going to get off the ground while this is your viewpoint.  

Meanwhile, great to hear that you're jotting down a positive every day.  Keep at it

[ZA Dater]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:23 PM, basil67 said:

I think that you may have missed that my comment is about how you view others.  About how you seem to care more for the looks of someone who would take the time to be with you than for who they are.  You're not going to get off the ground while this is your viewpoint.  

Meanwhile, great to hear that you're jotting down a positive every day.  Keep at it

Well its challenging to view others in a different way to which one is viewed by others. In truth I am drawn to attractive people much the same way I am toward successful people, both exude confidence I do simply do not have but while I am around those people I do have a bit more confidence. Success at anything gives confidence, knowing you are attractive gives confidence and its just how it seems to work in general.

Its quite nice being around people who have what I do not, at least there is a sense of possibility and this is where I need to be careful between being positive and realistic, this is a very grey area. Yes I realize I should be appreciative for what I have but equally I should also not be settling for it either. Again a grey area.

 

[glows]

You’re probably more honest about being attracted to attractive people and get “lost” in this problem while others just totally ignore it. A lot of people aren’t even aware that their mannerisms change when approaching someone based on dress and looks. I specifically like dressing down all the time for this reason because I don’t want the special treatment from anyone based on looks. Bland, no make up, no jewellery, plain and generic clothing and completely covered up. I agree on focusing on what someone is saying and what they’re doing versus looks if you can help it. 

In regards to the “I can” mentality, very glad you’re changing and implementing more of this. It absolutely does change a person’s perspective to break down misconceptions or preconceptions about what can or can’t be done, should or shouldn’t be done. It doesn’t mean be a pushover but consider the possibilities. It’s also fine to tell someone you’ll consider a proposition but will have to think on it. No need for hasty decisions either.

 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, glows said:

You’re probably more honest about being attracted to attractive people and get “lost” in this problem while others just totally ignore it. A lot of people aren’t even aware that their mannerisms change when approaching someone based on dress and looks. I specifically like dressing down all the time for this reason because I don’t want the special treatment from anyone based on looks. Bland, no make up, no jewellery, plain and generic clothing and completely covered up. I agree on focusing on what someone is saying and what they’re doing versus looks if you can help it. 

In regards to the “I can” mentality, very glad you’re changing and implementing more of this. It absolutely does change a person’s perspective to break down misconceptions or preconceptions about what can or can’t be done, should or shouldn’t be done. It doesn’t mean be a pushover but consider the possibilities. It’s also fine to tell someone you’ll consider a proposition but will have to think on it. No need for hasty decisions either.

 

Yeah, I wont lie some days its challenging, today being one of them, not a lot went right today but I did a sprint on the mountain bike and felt a lot better after that. Equally I think there is a reverse side to "I can" and that is to try be kind oneself. There is a lot of things in life I miss out on but equally there are a few many never get to experience, to some extent I am lucky enough to live some of my passions and I am indeed fortunate. The flip side is that few understand my passions.

In terms of special treatment I treat everyone much the same but its also true I am reserved and guarded so people do not really see the real me that often. Maybe I should not admit this but I try to not get overly emotive, what I have seen is that emotions cloud judgement significantly so if I can remain rather unemotional I can make better decisions and mediate in conflict situations more easily.

One thing I am trying to do is to be more hopeful which I guess sounds odd but maybe if I retain some sense of hope then there is still some degree of chance. 

 

[ZA Dater]

Updating this, I have tried each day to adopt this approach and while its been very difficult I have had some some days where its worked and others where it really has not worked. Perhaps the inherent problem and this being very specific to me is that doing this I simply detach myself from things and find excuses to just help others often to my own detriment because for those moments that reality is better than my own.

I suppose in some respects what I have been doing is turning and ignoring some of the fundamentals in the hope they will go away, which unfortunately they never seem to do but I do have more appreciation for each day so one loss against one win. 

With this my eyes have opened a bit more and in some respects I am more aware of the fragility of each day. The flip side is to be honest  I am not that happy with what I have done with my own life but there are no real fixes there because none actually get me to where I want to be so its going to take me accepting what is now and being happy with it to some extent. I do feel like I have not really lived life and I have not experienced much.

The thing about this approach now is that I take a lot more comfort from warm, friendly nice people, who apparently have the life I wish I had, there is some solace and comfort in that for me. I call it comfort from possibility and in truth I live each day on a degree of possibility irrespective whether I actually believe in that possibility. I am more acutely aware of the feelings of those around me and do more to help others and be kind to others, this is always something I have enjoyed doing and I enjoy it even more now. 

So yes being realistic versus being positive is a very tough rope to walk but for now the positive for me is drawn from others who have accomplished what I suspect I never realistically will.

[basil67]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

find excuses to just help others often to my own detriment

What kind of help are giving?   How can it feel good to be doing something where you know you'll come out worse off?   (I have many thoughts on this, but want clarity on the issue before I deliver them)

 

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

What kind of help are giving?   How can it feel good to be doing something where you know you'll come out worse off?   (I have many thoughts on this, but want clarity on the issue before I deliver them)

 

One of the things I am good at is supporting others, in other words I am good listener and my advice is usually quite measured. Ultimately take on the problems of others and try offer solutions and in some instances find the solutions for them or talk through ideas.

Yes, there is a certain irony this which is not lost on me. The worse off part for me taking on the issues of others and trying to find solutions and of course people venting can be difficult at times. 

A recent case with a friend of mine was moving, a mammoth operation and this friend apparently has lots of "friends" yet none actually assisted, it a huge operation to get everything sorted but it worked out really well and my efforts were appreciated. I think the other side to being positive is being appreciative and appreciated. I just look around me and I do not see many helpful people, most are happy to take in good times and run fast at the first sign of adversity.

There is a lot I cant control  but I do try and find something good each day, some positive interaction and make someone smile or laugh. The flip side to this is there is very little reciprocation which I just accept. My view is we cant change the world around us but we can absolutely determine how we approach each day. Sure, I have to accept a huge amount of compromise each day to keep those around me happy because ultimately the things which I like are elusive in the extreme so any degree of contentment I get is largely derived from the happiness of those around me. 

I question the merits of this from time to time but when I go out and chase what I really like in life all that happens is I realise I actually cannot attain any of those things so its easier to retreat to deriving contentment from the achievements of others which I play a small part in. Another good example was a friend asked me about this new lady he is dating, he wanted to buy this massive flower arrangement and having met her  a few times I sensed she would probably prefer something less ostentatious, which proved to be the case. 

Another instance there was a deal on a property which was going south, I got involved with no benefit to me and got it back on track and it ultimately turned out well. 

Both instances I felt I made a positive contribution. Its why I really appreciate the very few instances where people have done the same for me, got involved and helped me to ultimately be a better person and helped me to find just a little confidence.

Again its easier to be positive if one has some confidence.