Positive versus Realist

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its why I really appreciate the very few instances where people have done the same for me, got involved and helped me to ultimately be a better person and helped me to find just a little confidence.

Many people here have spent a lot of time trying to help you,  So your view that there are "very few instances" where people have tried to help you is extraordinarily ungrateful.   For evidence, look at all the posts and threads you've made where people reach out.  

You seeing only what you want to see.  Not what is actually happening.

[Weezy1973]

Confidence comes from within. From your posts here, it seems like you have very little emotional resilience. Your whole world is essentially constructed as a giant defense mechanism to protect you from getting hurt. Instead of pursuing a life you want, you find every excuse not to. And on top of that refuse the one thing that can possibly help with your skewed perspective: therapy. And that’s also a defense mechanism. Ironically you don’t have the emotional fortitude to confront your issues in an honest and vulnerable way, which if you actually did in a genuine way by going to therapy, would result in increasing your emotional fortitude. But instead you prefer the comfort of your dysfunctional cycle. Reality or fantasizing about an ideal is irrelevant. Neither will make you happy.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Weezy1973

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Confidence comes from within. From your posts here, it seems like you have very little emotional resilience. Your whole world is essentially constructed as a giant defense mechanism to protect you from getting hurt. Instead of pursuing a life you want, you find every excuse not to. And on top of that refuse the one thing that can possibly help with your skewed perspective: therapy. And that’s also a defense mechanism. Ironically you don’t have the emotional fortitude to confront your issues in an honest and vulnerable way, which if you actually did in a genuine way by going to therapy, would result in increasing your emotional fortitude. But instead you prefer the comfort of your dysfunctional cycle. Reality or fantasizing about an ideal is irrelevant. Neither will make you happy.

Ok so it would seem the solution for everything is therapy, thank you for this, I think you may have told me this 30 times. I am glad it worked for you and you found value sitting talking to a stranger. Good for you. I found it a total and complete waste of time which offered me nothing at all. 

I find the above part particularly amusing seeing as you probably will not meet a colder person than me, I have been through things I would not wish on my worst enemy, seen things I wish I had not so the above is frankly nonsense. Do I have defenses, yes I do because again if you had experienced what I did you would too. 

Confront everything with therapy, vulnerable gets you nowhere in life, more often than not it just leads to increased levels of disappointment. 

Sorry confidence does not come within, I have worked with enough people who have nothing in life to know that once you instill in them some self belief, a sense that they can do something and when they find that first bit of success, it builds their confidence. 

Anyway I get to look at one of the wonders of the world most days, there are some beautiful vista's here and I can enjoy all those things, just yesterday I went running in the vineyards, not such a bad reality is it.  

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

Many people here have spent a lot of time trying to help you,  So your view that there are "very few instances" where people have tried to help you is extraordinarily ungrateful.   For evidence, look at all the posts and threads you've made where people reach out.  

You seeing only what you want to see.  Not what is actually happening.

The very few instances relate to people who see me every day, these people live the most delightful lives. Ultimately it is what it is, some are "luckier" than others, I have spent enough time on this planet to see the truth of that. 

Thing is I'd rather live in the world of possibility than the world of reality. Realistically I wont ever go to Bora Bora but possibly I will, that is my line of thinking. Sure I could go to the Maldives but that is not what I want. Honestly I could not go to neither place alone so the entire idea is possibility more than reality.

I can enjoy looking at pictures of both places, this perhaps best illustrates my approach. 

 

[basil67]

30 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The very few instances relate to people who see me every day,

So you don't count the support you do get in order to have a pity party about not getting help from specific quarters?   And let me guess, these ones who you want support from happen to be attractive women.   It's no wonder you're miserable.  

For the record, it's extremely rude to complain "nobody ever helps me" to the people who actually take time to help you.  What part of you thinks that this is an OK thing to do?  

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

So you don't count the support you do get in order to have a pity party about not getting help from specific quarters?   And let me guess, these ones who you want support from happen to be attractive women.   It's no wonder you're miserable.  

For the record, it's extremely rude to complain "nobody ever helps me" to the people who actually take time to help you.  What part of you thinks that this is an OK thing to do?  

Actually incorrect on all assumptions and no I am not miserable simply of late I have realized how finite life is and what we do with it does actually matter. This has made me re look at a few things and perhaps in some instances re read the book that is my life. Simply put I realize I'll never attract what I find to be attractive in much the same way I wont go to Bora Bora either. 

I think the thing I would have told my younger self would have been to enjoy those years more and be less focused on the future because in some respect I am now at the future and have frankly accomplished nothing I actually wanted to, in affect all I did was waste those years. 

Perhaps for a lot of us there is a sense life follows a pattern and it would be impossible to say this is not true, people I went to school with, almost all married, most have kids and I have neither. Reality is though I also have as a consequence less responsibility.

The only real consistent help I get is on this forum. That is telling. To be fair if I can find one good thing each day the days just all run into one and the weeks too and the months simply go by. There is nothing really for me to look forward to so its more a case of just finding that one good thing.

Oddly enough I went through a phase where it felt good to open up to people and share my thoughts in person, it does not feel so good anymore and it accomplishes nothing. What I can accomplish each day is to try make someone laugh and maybe I learn something each day.

With positive and being realistic comes perspective and that is a hard concept to articulate, probably why when I look back house parties and drinking and everything that goes with it was neve my scene, I was always looking at the giant big picture, trying to figure out how it all goes together. In hindsight the moment was more important than the future or the big picture.

What I do get to do is dissect in detail the error of my ways, look back at things I should have done better while trying to be positive about the present which is a tough balancing act to perform. I have gone thought severe trauma in life, won that battle but it came at a very high cost, dedicated myself to various causes and that has come at a high cost. 

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

So you don't count the support you do get in order to have a pity party about not getting help from specific quarters?   And let me guess, these ones who you want support from happen to be attractive women.   It's no wonder you're miserable.  

Also, I think that "support" "help" and "attention" are not valid unless they result in exactly the fantasy that you (OP) are envisioning for yourself.   

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

For the record, it's extremely rude to complain "nobody ever helps me" to the people who actually take time to help you.  What part of you thinks that this is an OK thing to do?  

No kidding.

[Alpacalia]

52 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What I do get to do is dissect in detail the error of my ways, look back at things I should have done better while trying to be positive about the present which is a tough balancing act to perform.

If only we could go back in time and share the knowledge we have acquired since then.

So what would I tell my younger self?

I would tell my younger self to focus less on the future and more on the present moment. I would tell her to take more time to enjoy life and appreciate the small things. I would tell her to take risks, but to be mindful of the consequences. I would tell her to take care of her mental and physical health, so she can be the best version of herself. I would tell her to be kind and generous to others, and to never be afraid to ask for help when she needs it. Most of all, I would tell her to never give up, no matter what life throws at her.

It's nice that members take the time to try to help you. 

I rarely respond to your posts as I'm unsure if I can be of any assistance. I understand that sometimes people need to vent. I know my limitations and I recognize that I have a threshold for how long I can endure a situation. Still, it's encouraging to observe people willing to make the effort to lend an ear, pose inquiries, and proffer advice. Even if their guidance does not provide the desired outcome, it is still valuable.

Yes. If only we had the opportunity to time travel and share our current knowledge with our younger selves, we could offer ourselves invaluable advice and the wisdom we have accumulated over the years. Alas, this is not possible, but it is a nice thought.

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I find the above part particularly amusing seeing as you probably will not meet a colder person than me…

This is the opposite of emotional resilience. Emotionally healthy people fully feel their emotions but also aren’t controlled by them. Suppressing them, or avoiding situations where you’ll feel uncomfortable emotions is the opposite. Therapy can help.

[basil67]

OK, so let's dial it back.  Did you actually mean to say that nobody in real life helps you?

Do you want help or need help?   Who are these people who you want help from?   Why is it this subset in particular that you want help from?  Do they know you want help?   And if they do know, do they have the skills to help?   Do they have the time?    Is the help you require a reasonable request? 

On reasonable requests, you cited that you helped someone move when the job was really big and nobody else would help.  It's not at all surprising that nobody else came to help.   We stopped arriving with our wagons and trailers to help friends move when a) we got busy and have commitments with our own families and b) they accumulated enough stuff that a moving van was required.   And if that person has so much stuff that moving is extremely difficult, then they need to cull before moving. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

OK, so let's dial it back.  Did you actually mean to say that nobody in real life helps you?

Do you want help or need help?   Who are these people who you want help from?   Why is it this subset in particular that you want help from?  Do they know you want help?   And if they do know, do they have the skills to help?   Do they have the time?    Is the help you require a reasonable request? 

On reasonable requests, you cited that you helped someone move when the job was really big and nobody else would help.  It's not at all surprising that nobody else came to help.   We stopped arriving with our wagons and trailers to help friends move when a) we got busy and have commitments with our own families and b) they accumulated enough stuff that a moving van was required.   And if that person has so much stuff that moving is extremely difficult, then they need to cull before moving. 

Well it was a 6 bedroom house worth of stuff and it was a 80 km move so yes a fair amount of co ordination was required. 

I think actually all I need every so often is for someone to either just say "how are you today" or "well done on a good job", there is not a lot of positive around, I live in a sense in a world where every single day there is some new problem, every single day there is some issue of some kind and it would be nice to just get a little bit of positive back. 

Ostensibly the world I live in is not a reasonable one and most of the time the requests are not reasonable and often the people difficult to deal with. 

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

This is the opposite of emotional resilience. Emotionally healthy people fully feel their emotions but also aren’t controlled by them. Suppressing them, or avoiding situations where you’ll feel uncomfortable emotions is the opposite. Therapy can help.

I'll agree to disagree on this. I have never found it to be particularly helpful at anything to be honest but I am glad your experience was better. I do not feel much emotion to be fair so your assertion I am ruled by them is very wide of the mark.

All you can do each day is do what you can with what you have. In my case its never really enough or gets me close enough to where  I want to be but I just need to live with it.

 

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Well it was a 6 bedroom house worth of stuff and it was a 80 km move so yes a fair amount of co ordination was required. 

I think actually all I need every so often is for someone to either just say "how are you today" or "well done on a good job", there is not a lot of positive around, I live in a sense in a world where every single day there is some new problem, every single day there is some issue of some kind and it would be nice to just get a little bit of positive back. 

Ostensibly the world I live in is not a reasonable one and most of the time the requests are not reasonable and often the people difficult to deal with. 

😳 No way would I volunteer to coordinate house moving for someone who's got a six bedroom house!  I'd tell them to find removalists who are willing to coordinate it all - IT'S THEIR JOB.  If you're feeling taken advantage of for doing this kind of stuff, there is a trick I learned from Oprah: say "Let me pray (sleep) on it".  It buys you time while you figure out if you really want to do the job of a professional for free.   While you're thinking about it, message us and we will give you the words to tell them that you can't do it.

You told us that you get to be a person of honour at the lavish events you go to because of the work you put in.  If that's not "well done, good job" I don't know what is.  I've certainly never been person of honor at a work event!   

Speaking of unreasonable requests, I'm on a private sewing group where we mock those who make unreasonable sewing requests (like wanting freebies or wanting handmade for the cost of fast fashion).  So yeah, people can be difficult to deal with, so we learn to practice saying "NO". Hence me not going out of my way to help someone coordinate and move the contents of a 6 bedroom house.  

Helping is kind, but it's important to not be taken advantage of. 

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not feel much emotion to be fair so your assertion I am ruled by them is very wide of the mark.

That’s because you avoid situations that might lead to uncomfortable emotions. Your fear of rejection is very well documented in these threads for example. You devote so much time and effort into avoiding those uncomfortable emotions. That is the definition of letting emotions rule you. Emotionally healthy people don’t avoid those situations. They recognize that uncomfortable emotions are part of a full, rich life. You can’t selectively numb just the bad feelings. Which is what you’re trying to do. And there’s years of threads documenting the futility in trying to do so. 
 

Also you should look up the definition of “people pleasing”. I suspect this is more akin to what you’re doing than genuine helping.

[ZA Dater]

36 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s because you avoid situations that might lead to uncomfortable emotions. Your fear of rejection is very well documented in these threads for example. You devote so much time and effort into avoiding those uncomfortable emotions. That is the definition of letting emotions rule you. Emotionally healthy people don’t avoid those situations. They recognize that uncomfortable emotions are part of a full, rich life. You can’t selectively numb just the bad feelings. Which is what you’re trying to do. And there’s years of threads documenting the futility in trying to do so. 
 

Also you should look up the definition of “people pleasing”. I suspect this is more akin to what you’re doing than genuine helping.

Again I will agree to disagree. My view is why put myself into what will be a negative situation because there is no upside at all to being in that situation when I can simply avoid that situation completely.  Its like deciding to cook when I am a terrible cook, versus going to be buy a pre cooked meal, why do the former and simply not enjoy it when you can do the latter and have a more positive experience as a result. 

I do not agree that endless negativity is part of a "full rich life". It is very possible to learn which experiences and which situations will turn out negatively, I regret not doing more to avoid them in the past.

I also maintain bad situations can be avoided, a good example for me are a large number of social events where I very clearly do not fit in, normally by virtue of having nothing in common with the people there. In the past I would go on the basis of "maybe" but inevitably the entire thing would be negative so now I just decline the invites and do not go. Guess what, I feel much better not going. 

For me I suppose its easier to walk away from those sort of things because there is no purpose to them, I have been to enough of them, I know the scene all too well and there is little enjoyment to be had by going, in the past I would be begged to go and so I did. You are correct in one respect we do as people have a degree of control as to how we are influenced by outside factors, he we either embrace the negative, avoid it and find the positive or we remain neutral throughout. Rejection does not really concern me because I put in zero effort now anyway so there is never a situation where I am rejected, again an example of avoiding a situation where there is no upside for me.

Each day I try find something to feel good about. 

Yes, I am indeed a people pleaser for what its worth. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

😳 No way would I volunteer to coordinate house moving for someone who's got a six bedroom house!  I'd tell them to find removalists who are willing to coordinate it all - IT'S THEIR JOB.  If you're feeling taken advantage of for doing this kind of stuff, there is a trick I learned from Oprah: say "Let me pray (sleep) on it".  It buys you time while you figure out if you really want to do the job of a professional for free.   While you're thinking about it, message us and we will give you the words to tell them that you can't do it.

You told us that you get to be a person of honour at the lavish events you go to because of the work you put in.  If that's not "well done, good job" I don't know what is.  I've certainly never been person of honor at a work event!   

Speaking of unreasonable requests, I'm on a private sewing group where we mock those who make unreasonable sewing requests (like wanting freebies or wanting handmade for the cost of fast fashion).  So yeah, people can be difficult to deal with, so we learn to practice saying "NO". Hence me not going out of my way to help someone coordinate and move the contents of a 6 bedroom house.  

Helping is kind, but it's important to not be taken advantage of. 

 

This is a fundamental problem I do have, I will admit I do not say "no" very often. Without going into too much specifics the feel good I do get is having quite a lot more knowledge of a particular subject matter than many. That has earned me respect and I am quite happy to stand up and gives speeches on that topic, there is a lot of feel good to that. Its just inevitably it just seems to count for very little from a social point of view. I had a friend, she had a bf who was also super knowledgeable in a specific field but "its all good and well he has the knowledge but its not very useful" and that sort of sums me up.

Nothing that I know actually helps me in any respect whatsoever. Things that most people know how to do but again I can either spin that negatively or just overlook it. I suppose in whatever one does its important to be realistic but sometimes its difficult to determine what that is. I mean I struggle to sew on a button so it would be impossible for me to knit a jersey, does not mean I do not like buying a nice jersey. 

My feeling is confidence and positivity live in the same sort of space, the former will almost always give you the latter. 

I think being helpful gives me some form of purpose to make up for the other things I simply do not have and this is the thing really, I tend to live an almost total vicarious life, I live through the achievements and struggles of others. This is why I see certain things the way I do because I know all too well it is possible to have what you want, for some people at least and once that is seen its very very difficult to walk back to "well compromise on this and that " because inevitably why should I need to?

Its possible to find feel good things though, I have a very attractive client, foreign and her mannerisms are somewhat different and I enjoy those interactions. 

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

.My view is why put myself into what will be a negative situation because there is no upside at all to being in that situation when I can simply avoid that situation completely. 

People do it for the positives in the long run. Short term pain for long term gain. Ask out and get rejected by 19 women because the 20th might say yes. You’ve had a girlfriend. You choosing to avoid potentially uncomfortable emotions led to that relationship ending. If you had embraced the discomfort, talked to her about it, and put yourself in that potentially uncomfortable situation, you might not be here posting today. 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

People do it for the positives in the long run. Short term pain for long term gain. Ask out and get rejected by 19 women because the 20th might say yes. You’ve had a girlfriend. You choosing to avoid potentially uncomfortable emotions led to that relationship ending. If you had embraced the discomfort, talked to her about it, and put yourself in that potentially uncomfortable situation, you might not be here posting today. 

Nice one. Except what is past is past, all I was having to do there was largely try to paper over fundamental problems I could not solve. I don't really buy into your logic either, if someone is perpetually unsuccessful with something it's a clear sign they should rather do something else rather than drown themselves in negativity, I regret not doing this myself.

Play odds, if it's not working over and over chances of it working are slim. Again why get lost in the negativity of this?

The reality is each day I just have to accept things which are difficult to accept, either it gets me down or I actively find anything to make me feel better, flip this can be a good muffin or a nice walk or a nice smile from someone.

Yea, the big issues never go away but I concede they cannot be solved but I can stop myself being all consumed by them and I can think about the aspirational side of life and people who do get it right and have none of the problems I do. It's really how a person choses to approach it. Your posts have actually been very helpful in this regard.

I will tell you this though, giving up on certain parts of life has become easier, again your posts helped here to a great degree by framing what I could possibly have and as that is so hugely unappealing it's quite easy to give up. Though I still aspire to the same thing always have and that is to feel like I accomplished something by doing things my way.

Ultimately that is all that matters to me. 

I'd argue most people cannot change their reality substantially very quickly, it's just unfortunate for me that the reality I have will never actually be one I want. Others were much more fortunate but is it not ironic how reality and fortune are so linked.

[basil67]

20 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think actually all I need every so often is for someone to either just say "how are you today" or "well done on a good job", there is not a lot of positive around, 

I'm backtracking because a lot of your answers seem to segue from the question.  

The above is not a ZA Dater problem - this is life for most of us.  I have only one person in my life who asks how I am today and actually wants an honest answer.  If she wasn't around, nobody would ask and that's just the way it is. 

From how you describe being an expert in your field and have the honor of addressing groups, you probably receive "well done on a good job" more often than most of us!    Do you remember being in primary school and the teachers would tell us to pat ourselves on the back for a job well done?  They were skilling us up to be able to recognise our own abilities and not need others to reinforce it.  A job well done/a good grade/a new skill should be it's own reward.  Yes, it's normal for parents to acknowledge that John did a good job of tidying his room or that Paul got good marks at school, but when you become a fully fledged adult, this stuff stops.  You shouldn't need it anymore.

Are your parents part of your life?  If so, do they show an interest in your life?  

You say that your professional skillset is narrow and doesn't help in other areas of life.  Well, that's the same for loads of people.  I'm pretty good with a spreadsheet, but that doesn't add a lot to my social skills   So my social skills sit separately.   I know a few people in IT who have highly specialised jobs, none of which translate back to useful social skills   Their social skills sit entirely separately.  

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by basil67
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[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

I'm backtracking because a lot of your answers seem to segue from the question.  

The above is not a ZA Dater problem - this is life for most of us.  I have only one person in my life who asks how I am today and actually wants an honest answer.  If she wasn't around, nobody would ask and that's just the way it is. 

From how you describe being an expert in your field and have the honor of addressing groups, you probably receive "well done on a good job" more often than most of us!    Do you remember being in primary school and the teachers would tell us to pat ourselves on the back for a job well done?  They were skilling us up to be able to recognise our own abilities and not need others to reinforce it.  A job well done/a good grade/a new skill should be it's own reward.  Yes, it's normal for parents to acknowledge that John did a good job of tidying his room or that Paul got good marks at school, but when you become a fully fledged adult, this stuff stops.  You shouldn't need it anymore.

Are your parents part of your life?  If so, do they show an interest in your life?  

You say that your professional skillset is narrow and doesn't help in other areas of life.  Well, that's the same for loads of people.  I'm pretty good with a spreadsheet, but that doesn't add a lot to my social skills   So my social skills sit separately.   I know a few people in IT who have highly specialised jobs, none of which translate back to useful social skills   Their social skills sit entirely separately.  

 

I just think to be fair people who are better at integrating themselves socially have generally speaking an "easier" time, having all this specialized knowledge means very little against someone who can make people laugh. Have to say I never had teachers who told me to pat myself on the back for a job well done, as with everything with me school was about trying to prove doubters wrong. I'll never forget when I was very young a friends parent making a very disparaging remark about me and throughout the years I heard many such remarks and while not bullied (I was taller than just about everyone) I was relentlessly teased for the last few years of my school life, yet respected at the same time.

Hearing these remarks going to therapy (which ironically made me feel far worse and did nothing to build any sort of self confidence, if anything all it did was the reverse) just made me want to prove people wrong and to be honest that is the theme I live by to a large extent. In a way its how I try to turn negative into positive.

Again either one owns the negative or tries to find the positive but it depends on what you measure the positive against.

One of the things I try to do each day is show appreciation for those around me but I never really feel that appreciated by those I assist, I suppose its not an expected but it would be nice every so often to get some appreciation.

My addressing of groups is ironically done in a social setting rather than a work one. 

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I just think to be fair people who are better at integrating themselves socially have generally speaking an "easier" time,

Yup, this is true. Loneliness is becoming a bigger and bigger problem. The question for you is are you actually not able to socialize? You flip your story between saying you don’t have any friends to referencing things you did with friends quite consistently. I suspect you have a decent social life, but you don’t feel connected. 

 

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

….made me want to prove people wrong and to be honest that is the theme I live by to a large extent.

And by now I’m sure you’ve concluded how futile living your life this way has been. Years of threads documenting how unhappy you are. Maybe time to change that?

 

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

…I never really feel that appreciated by those I assist, I suppose its not an expected but it would be nice every so often to get some appreciation.

Not feeling appreciation is different from people not being appreciative. When you helped that person move did they not say “thank you” at some point? I strongly suspect this desire for appreciation stems from a childhood of emotional neglect from your parents.

[Alpacalia]

This is all about your ego. You have to learn to let it go. It's the only way to truly see the world as it is. You'll be able to make better decisions and find inner peace. Accept things as they are instead of trying to control them.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Alpacalia

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yup, this is true. Loneliness is becoming a bigger and bigger problem. The question for you is are you actually not able to socialize? You flip your story between saying you don’t have any friends to referencing things you did with friends quite consistently. I suspect you have a decent social life, but you don’t feel connected. 

 

And by now I’m sure you’ve concluded how futile living your life this way has been. Years of threads documenting how unhappy you are. Maybe time to change that?

 

Not feeling appreciation is different from people not being appreciative. When you helped that person move did they not say “thank you” at some point? I strongly suspect this desire for appreciation stems from a childhood of emotional neglect from your parents.

Here is the thing, doing things people think I cannot do is one of the most satisfying things for me so no, there is no reason to change that. The alternative is to say "well this is the best I can do, which is less than what others can do, just settle for whatever I can go in whatever sphere of life", that is by far a lot worse.

I find less reason to socialise outside of specific a specific interest group. Its not like I am going to try strike up conversations with random people in the supermarket, its quite frankly cringe worthy when I have seen this. You are right I never really feel that connected but there are times when I do and I genuinely enjoy that interaction, with this is the fact I never talk about myself in any social setting, its much easier to let other people lead the conversation because I have sat with enough "me myself and I" to know that that particular approach would not be one people enjoy.

Here is the thing though and this is going to sound incredibly odd but I tend to work better with people if there is some degree of familiarity, a good example there an admin manager at one of my clients, when I first started interacting with her the conversation was very work like but over time its become more friendly "I hope you have a good holiday tomorrow", its a simply piece of friendly interaction but its nice nonetheless. (I suppose her Australian accent helps get my attention).

One thing I do believe is its not difficult to be considerate of others and I try do this each day and it really does not cost anything to be kind and considerate. Again I learnt that if I can do this I can make some degree of difference and I can also feel good about it. Your posts often make me think of a balanced world, my world is not often very balanced.

It would be true to say I have not had an easy but others have had it far worse than I have so for me that is not really a reason on its own. I have just never really fitted in with seemingly anyone.

[Foxhall]

Id venture that you are actually pretty emotionally resilient rather than not, you have to plough a lone furrow and deal with all this loneliness in your own head without having any close friends to bounce things off,

I recall about 12-17 years ago I was very dependant on one particular friend for social interactions and when he dumped me for want of a better word, you know it was not easy to pick myself up and without sounding too dramatic ,face the world all alone,

but gradually over time I leamed how to interact better and make new friends- ironically Id know a lot more women nowadays than my old pal does,

One thing I am involved in from time to time is adult education- surprisingly Ive come across maybe three or four women  in the classes over the few years that have been interested in romantic encounters,

the most recent was a Ukrainian about 15 years younger than me- I had a sense I had a real chance there and this was a woman who could give me children, but what the hell I decided that I am in a relationship and it is better not to pursue it,

but I have that mindset now - progressed from having been someone who really struggled with all social interactions - to someone who believes he could land a younger woman nowadays.

two things Id do if I were you,

Id join some regular activity where there will likely be a few female attendees-something like a language learning class  where you get a chance to get to know the people over a number of weeks,

and this may sound funny- but Id even not be trying that hard or not trying at all to impress people or make friends- just go along for the ride with no expectations  and funnily enough you might have a better outcome.

 

 

[basil67]

15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I just think to be fair people who are better at integrating themselves socially have generally speaking an "easier" time, having all this specialized knowledge means very little against someone who can make people laugh. are warm, friendly and are interested in the lives of others

You're close, but not quite.  So I fixed it for you.   I don't care what someone does for a job.  I'd argue that most of us don't care what someone else does for a job.  And they don't have to be funny.  (very few people are truly funny).  What I care about is that they are good company and care about me as I do for them.

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Have to say I never had teachers who told me to pat myself on the back for a job well done

I didn't mean them telling you specifically.  I mean telling the whole class to pat themselves on the back for the effort they put into something.  Like after handing in individual projects or a group performance.  It's not so much about the teacher congratulating the class...it's more about learning to be pleased with what you've done.

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Hearing these remarks going to therapy (which ironically made me feel far worse and did nothing to build any sort of self confidence, if anything all it did was the reverse) 

I get that other kids and parents can be clueless, but what remarks did the therapist make?  

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One of the things I try to do each day is show appreciation for those around me but I never really feel that appreciated by those I assist, I suppose its not an expected but it would be nice every so often to get some appreciation.

Yes.  This is why we mock those who ask for freebies on my sewing page.  Unless you get paid to help people, don't do large jobs for those who aren't already in a warm and giving relationship with you.  Doing the work isn't going to help you make friends, and yes, you will end up feeling more used.   And it doesn't need to be a straight up "no".  We've found that if you simply put some of the effort back on them, they will disappear.   For instance, my husband found that people stopped asking him to fix their computers when he would reply  "sure, drop it in...it will take me a week or so".   (No house calls!)   Someone was envious of the pest nets I made for my vege garden and wanted some.  So I said "Sure, if you can buy the conduit and corners and make the frame and purchase the netting, I'll sew it for you".  Of course, it never happened.  Use people's desire to not be inconvenienced against them - it will stop you being used.  

Of course, it still goes without saying that we should help strangers who we see struggling.  Helping a parent with a pram, helping someone who's shopping bag has just imploded, helping a slow person across the road by delaying traffic, assisting at a car accident.  I'm not about being a total arsehole....just don't want to be taken advantage of.

Edited April 27, 2023 by basil67