She stuck around

[SoulOfOne]

In a talk with a strictly platonic married guy I've known for a long time. We both belong to the same creative organization. Always been friendly (honestly nothing more either way, we just get along). Sometimes talks are personal sometimes not, we just seem to click. No attraction or vibes either way. Just 2 people talking before an event. Just making that clear.

Today we were talking in general about a minor disagreement I had with the man I'm seeing. Not a big deal, how I'm just learning about my guys behaviors and my reaction to them and the why's. We were talking about relationships and what draws people together.

He tells me that in his marriage, he has never really LOVED his wife. He LOVES her as the mother of their son but he has never felt the romantic love for her as a man should love a woman in his mind. 

I must have looked puzzled (never heard this before) because he explained that when he met her, he wasn't interested in her or anyone as he was battling addiction. He wanted nothing to do with her but she wouldn't leave him alone. She kept showing up, acting like they were together. He would even say "what are you doing? We aren't even together" and she said "yes, we are." And just kept sticking around and showing up for minths and months. Fifinally he just "gave in" and was like, whatever."  Married her, became a stepfather to her kid, had a child of his own with her he didn't really want to have (but of course loves) and now, THEN he got clean and she "took care of him."

He said the whole marriage-he just feels complacent and stuck as he said people should make SURE they loved any person they would marry. He loves her for all she's done for him, but wasn't attracted to her wasn't in love with her, but is thankful she took care of him and felt like he owed her to stick around. But DOESNT LOVE HER LIKE THAT. And, he's not truly happy but doesn't know what else to do. Kids are all grown now. Just the 2 of them at home. Why bother now, he said.

I thought, are you just waiting to DIE NOW?!?!

I asked, how does this work? (I've never met her) He said she's sweet, nothing disrespectful to say about her. She's not a nag or awful- in fact they live like roommates, neighbors, hardly intimate ever. He would just for the physical but she's not into it. He just goes on like he's got a roommate. I said, does she KNOW all this? YES. He even has TOLD her how he feels and has felt like this and she was sad but wouldnt leave him. She is IN LOVE with him. So it just is like this. And he said he is guilty of complacency.

I had no clue what to say.

I did tell him I would hope that he finds what he needs in life, and for her too.

I had all the questions I felt like I couldn't ask.

1. Why would she stay with a man who openly said he didn't love her?

2. Why does HE stay? Comfort? Fear of unknown? Obligation?

3. Is it because he didn't "choose and chase" her? Is that a real thing?

4. Sexless marriage? He's not physically attracted to her but said HE has a libido (not cheating) and she isn't interested anymore. Is he cheating? (Wouldn't tell me this anyway I suppose)

It's their relationship, none of my business but it brought up all these questions of WHY and how?

 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, SoulOfOne said:

.I did tell him I would hope that he finds what he needs in life, and for her too.

That is a good response. Avoid talking about his marital problems. Especially married men complaining of "being like roommates". Perhaps suggest he see a marriage counselor. 

[JTSW]

I'm not convinced that everything he is telling you is the truth.

I don't think anyone would waste so much of their life like that.

[stillafool]

12 hours ago, SoulOfOne said:

4. Sexless marriage? He's not physically attracted to her but said HE has a libido (not cheating) and she isn't interested anymore. Is he cheating? (Wouldn't tell me this anyway I suppose)

If they have a son they were and probably still are having sex. I agree with Wiseman that the only advice you should give him is to seek marriage counseling and not discuss his marriage with him.

[glows]

12 hours ago, SoulOfOne said:

I had all the questions I felt like I couldn't ask.

1. Why would she stay with a man who openly said he didn't love her?

2. Why does HE stay? Comfort? Fear of unknown? Obligation?

3. Is it because he didn't "choose and chase" her? Is that a real thing?

4. Sexless marriage? He's not physically attracted to her but said HE has a libido (not cheating) and she isn't interested anymore. Is he cheating? (Wouldn't tell me this anyway I suppose)

It's their relationship, none of my business but it brought up all these questions of WHY and how?

You have the right approach. It is their business and none of yours but for sh*ts and giggles let’s go over these questions.

1. They’ve built a life and a home together and it’s not easy to break away in most cases. Finances may be mingled and they may be supporting one another. Some people also need more emotional support than others. She may be codependent as well. All these are speculations and very unhealthy on your part to dwell so let it pass. 

2. Similar as above. 

3. It’s possible to marry someone and be in some version of love at that time but outgrow one another. If you’ve been together for many years there’s comfort and solace in a longer term relationship - I’m speaking decades. He does sound overly critical and I think it’s disturbing to hear someone discuss their partner in such detail. I’d again step back and instead examine your reaction and question why you’re listening to this.

4. We wouldn’t know if he’s cheating and it’s best to stay out of it. Not everyone needs sex, by the way. The need for sex in some declines or becomes less of a priority as you age. Yes, sure, it’s there. Big whoop. Or desire for sex comes in waves. Physical and mental health could be affecting someone’s sex drive. Someone who is in chronic pain or constantly stressed might not give a crap about sex or want it. I mention these as there are many reasons for loss of interest in sex. Hearing a friend describe his loss of attraction for his partner would be disturbing to hear, in my opinion. It sounds sad and woeful, not to mention disloyal to his partner whom he’s discussing without her being present or to state her case as well. Really examine your reactions here if you’re feeling sad and uncomfortable listening to all this.

I’m also seeing you belong to the same creative organization. What is that? Volunteer work or a local community or are you colleagues paid by the same employer? If this is work stay professional and cut down on these kinds of chats. Otherwise take a step back anyway. He may feel comfortable opening up to you but it’s doing both of you a disservice.

[SoulOfOne]

It's a networking organization for creative. We Don't work for the same company. I had zero plans on continuing down this road of conversation with him. My reaction wasn't because of any attraction or intrest in HIM. But a human nature question of "why do people act or feel in this way? Why chase someone who tells you they aren't interested? Why marry someone you arent attracted to, why stay married to a guy who says he never loved you?"

 I didn't want to dig any deeper-thus my response of "I hope you find your way to happiness." Yeah, I was shocked it felt like he purged all of this onto me. I'm in no real position to suggest marriage counseling to him.  I think it will affect how much I chat with him at those events though. 

[Els]

Honestly? Sounds like he's trying to bait you into an affair. "We live like roommates" is to affairs what "hello" is to phone conversations.

Yeah, yeah, I know - you're going to say "HE'S NOT LIKE THAT". But how well do you know him really? I have several close platonic male friends - we talk about work, shared hobbies, vacation plans, food, pets, family... but the one thing we do not ever talk about is our sex life with our spouses. We just don't even go there. It's disrespectful of him IMO, to do that with a person of the opposite sex whom he is meeting up with IRL.

[SoulOfOne]

9 minutes ago, Els said:

Honestly? Sounds like he's trying to bait you into an affair. "We live like roommates" is to affairs what "hello" is to phone conversations.

Yeah, yeah, I know - you're going to say "HE'S NOT LIKE THAT". But how well do you know him really? 

Lol. I can see how it would sound like that. But I guess that would take 2 of us to have an affair and it's never gonna happen there on my end. He is nice and friendly and we get along but ZERO physical attraction, different belief systems but we are conversational about it rather than combative. If he has some secret crush on me its never caught my attention. Nope. Nope.

I suppose I don't know him "that" well but over the years he's never "gone there" or said anything disparaging about his spouse which yes, a completely agree is disrespectful. For the record, I've never ever mentioned a sexual topic to him either. So this was out of the blue.

It felt like he just barfed up all this information on me. 

[PotatoHead]

53 minutes ago, Els said:

Honestly? Sounds like he's trying to bait you into an affair.

Couldn't agree more with this.  It's inappropriate to talk negatively about your current relationship to a friend but especially one of the opposite sex.  He should be talking to his wife about these things or his counselor, if he actually wanted to do the right thing.

It is possible what he says is true and he's unhappily married, but to talk to you about it like this sounds like he is waiting for an opening to cross boundaries even further.  I would tread carefully with him if you want to keep the friendship.  A large majority of men are unable to maintain a platonic friendship with a female without ever developing attraction, even if he is not showing it yet he is probably thinking it.

[ShyViolet]

If what he is telling you is the truth, if he truly went ahead and married a woman who he was not attracted to, who he did not love, for no particular reason and just "went along with it", and rewarded her disrespectful, manipulative behavior, then they have a really twisted and dysfunctional dynamic.  There's no point of you analyzing this and trying to figure out "why why why".  You won't figure that out.  How are we supposed to know what was in their heads?  That is not a question you need to delve into.  Their relationship is dysfunctional, and this is not normal behavior.  That's all you really need to know.

[Wiseman2]

On 3/23/2023 at 2:31 PM, SoulOfOne said:

It felt like he just barfed up all this information on me. 

Exactly. This is why suggesting marriage counseling for him is a good idea. It makes it clear that you're not there to solve his "roommate" woes (even if you're not interested, sounds like fishing) and you're not there to provide free therapy.

[BaileyB]

Just another conflict avoidant man stuck in a bad marriage with a woman that he does not love but married anyway because SHE wanted to get married…

This story is as old as time. He told you this story because we was wanting to assess your response - can he play upon your sympathy and are you open to crossing boundaries/an affair? 

How do you respond? You don’t. It’s not your problem. If he is unhappy in his marriage that is his problem to solve.  

If he was truly interested in fixing this problem, he would be in counselling, talking with his wife, and possibly taking steps toward divorce. He’s not doing that, instead he has taken a very passive approach to “the problem” - he has chosen to stay and complain and blame his wife for the poor decisions that he made…

This, to me, would be my cue to take a big step back and re-establish a stronger boundary with this man… He would not suck me in with his tale of woe and I give him a wide berth/steer clear of him in the future. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

I think the better question is not why she stuck around but why he choses this for himself? Also, why he thinks it appropriate to be speaking with another woman about the problems in his marriage? 

[mark clemson]

Assuming what he's telling you is partly or mostly true (which IS an assumption for something like this) - well, people are not all the same, and different people define, express, and experience love in different ways.

She's established a family with him (looked for and found a "fixer upper" apparently). Maybe that's "love" to her and she is content.

He is less content, but clearly doesn't have a lot of backbone if he let himself be maneuvered into this situation and now won't leave even though his needs (IF he's telling the truth) genuinely aren't being met. So he's not experiencing "love" in his marriage.

It's of course up to you if you're willing to help him "alleviate the problem" a bit, IF that's on the table. I'm going to guess your answer would be no, as you don't seem attracted to him. Be aware that he MAY be reading more into your friendship and willingness to be supportive than you are interested in.

Since you seem to mostly be posting here out of curiosity about his family situation, the above is my read FWIW (taking his statements at face value). As others have pointed out, one never really knows for sure with things like this whether he's opening up or it's a "sympathy ploy". I will say that if he were genuinely content in his marriage you probably wouldn't be hearing any of this, but how much might be true and how much might be exaggeration would be very hard to know.

He would probably benefit the most from taking pro-active steps to improve his marriage (and possibly from some therapy) but that can be easier said than done sometimes.

Edited March 26, 2023 by mark clemson

[basil67]

I'd say they are still together because they aren't unhappy enough to go through the mess of divorce.

In the Western world, divorce has really only been common for the last 35 years or so.  Before that, people promised 'till death do we part' and stuck to their end of the bargain 'for better or worse'   Thing is, if a couple is content enough together - and particularly if neither is interested in having a new relationship - why should they separate?  

The commitment of marriage is far more complex than being simply about love.

[SoulOfOne]

One thing we all seem to agree on is that it is inappropriate for him to be discussing it with me. And a main reason many of us end up in a site like this is to gain some understanding and others perspectives on situations. I often try to put myself in their situations in an attempt to understand them. I try not to take their issues as my own, but often get stuck in the psychology of wondering WHY or HOW someone (yes, even myself) does the things they do. I just couldn't understand this one. Other than She must have some serious self esteem issues and he (although I've not seen it before) must be seriously spineless.

I was and am not interested in "helping" or providing him any guidance, and im NOT carrying this on my psychic load, but it just hit me that day as, "WOW. How would "I" feel or what happened with me to make me feel like this was a good choice?"  To chase an addicted (at the time) guy down, insert myself into his life insisting we would be together even when he told me NO. What happened to her to make her think this was "worth it"? Did she feel like she could CHANGE him OR SAVE HIM and he would MAGICALLY love her? And what she got in the end was still enough for her? After he got clean he STILL told her he never felt attracted, romantically inclined or loved her. How do you live your whole life like this is all you deserve (my own judgement here).

Someone here on this site once wrote to me "men don't stay with the woman who saves them" on a post I had once. That stuck in my head.

As for him (respectfully, I've never experienced addiction, so I could be off base) you just "gave in?" You KNEW you were never attracted to her, you didn't LOVE her? Was it just being weak from addiction? Needing someone to care for you, be it ANYONE? You were NEVER attracted to her or romantically loved her? Didn't want to have a kid with her but did? How do you live your whole life like this is all you deserve? (that is my judgement shining through again).

Tiny part of me wanting to watch this soap opera, but-I won't. Lol. It's just Toxic TV.

[basil67]

You say you’d wonder how you’d feel. Thing is, this isn’t about you or how you’d feel.  

While I will state that the husband had no business sharing this with you, this is not a soap opera.  They are simply doing what’s right for them and the rest is nobody’s business but their own 

[BaileyB]

And for all you know, they are happily married. Read this site and you will learn there are a lot of “happily” married men who complain to other women that their wives pressured them into marriage and don’t have sex with them anymore… it’s a line. And people are as happy as they chose to be sometimes... 

[S2B]

Loads of women marry for security. Looks like a man did this time. 
 

he’s grooming you. Just be aware of that. 
he disrespects his wife by sharing THEIR personal info outside THEIR marriage.

 

[sandylee1]

Something sounds a bit off about his story. 

Most women marry wouldn't be so keen to marry a man with addiction, down and low and especially to have them as a Stepfather to a child. They'd want someone who could actually bring something to the table... when she met him he was like a project, that most fully functioning adult women would steer clear of.

 

Maybe she had a desire to help and it developed into more, but if what he says had any truth, she sounds like she has low self esteem if he was the bestshe could do for herself.

[JTSW]

I do not believe in the slightest that he never loved his wife.

He married her, had children with her.

Of course he loves her.

I agree with the person that said he is trying to bait you into an affair by making you feel sorry for him. 

[SoulOfOne]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:49 AM, sandylee1 said:

Something sounds a bit off about his story. 

Most women marry wouldn't be so keen to marry a man with addiction, down and low and especially to have them as a Stepfather to a child. They'd want someone who could actually bring something to the table... when she met him he was like a project, that most fully functioning adult women would steer clear of.

 

Maybe she had a desire to help and it developed into more, but if what he says had any truth, she sounds like she has low self esteem if he was the bestshe could do for herself.

This is exactly what I thought. He was a project and she must have thought she deserved no better. And for him, he gave in figuring he needed help getting clean and this lady was in front of him. He seems pretty docile (albeit it friendly). Like he could be easily led and told.

All so off sounding to wanting to spend your life with someone for those reasons. But, it's not MY life.

[SoulOfOne]

On 3/29/2023 at 4:11 AM, JTSW said:

I do not believe in the slightest that he never loved his wife.

He married her, had children with her.

Of course he loves her.

I agree with the person that said he is trying to bait you into an affair by making you feel sorry for him. 

Even if he was trying to groom me, there would have to be some conceding on MY part. I see him maybe once a month with no contact in between. I'm NOT attracted in the least. He's always been nice and friendly but thats it. This was the first odd interaction. I can see the disfunction in sharing such personal things outside his marriage. I'm not sure he could ever actually groom me as I am, was, will be, completely unwilling. 😆

[Wiseman2]

On 3/26/2023 at 6:58 AM, SoulOfOne said:

Tiny part of me wanting to watch this soap opera, but-I won't. Lol. It's just Toxic TV.

This seems to be part of it. Sort of living vicariously through his drama.

[JTSW]

3 minutes ago, SoulOfOne said:

Even if he was trying to groom me, there would have to be some conceding on MY part. I see him maybe once a month with no contact in between. I'm NOT attracted in the least.

The amount of contact doesn't matter for him to be secretly attracted to you.