Finally ready to meet, then ghosted

[ellie-]

9 minutes ago, JTSW said:

He probably did this with many other women.

And so it be. Could be, could be not. Most likely is. We don't know. It doesn't matter anymore. 

I don't care anymore. All of your replies have been eye opening. 

[ellie-]

@mark clemson

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Dunno, to me this all sounds like a bunch of "game playing" on both your parts.

Yes, I noticed this as well when writing my post and my replies. Again, I am not like this in other contexts. He is married and I didn't know how to deal with this and dealt with it the way I did. Next time I just block and move on and if not, I will not have emotional conversations with a man that is married. This complicates things. 

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Maybe it's an "emotional affair" that he can't bring himself to bring to physical. After all, he has a lot to lose.

This could make sense. And before everyone writes how delusional and foolish I am, I am just saying it could make sense. Especially looking at him saying that it's the first time emotions are involved. And I know - all lies, he most likely does this with other women, I shouldn't trust what a married man says, I am a fool for interacting with a married man, this has no future etc. I know! I am just saying that based on the narrative this contact had, based in this context, it could make sense. And looking at all the past conversations I had with him (for four years before he even really expressed his feelings), I didn't have a reason for not believing that his words are true. He also once said that this scares and overwhelms him. And that he doesn't really want to think about what he's doing with me actually means for his life. 

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You both go hot/cold and it seems to be an ingrained (and ultimately counter-productive) style for the two of you. Not showing up was just the latest example.

Yes. There are so many things unsaid, undiscussed and unexplored. We have never even met. I was overwhelmed with this, maybe he was as well and this was how we expressed this. Again, I don't want to romanticise this contact, I really don't. And for the ones that say I do - I don't care. 

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You asked him what's a woman in her 20's doing chasing after/falling for a man in his 50's who's married? A fair point, but really the question is why are YOU participating in this, apparently instead of actually dating?

We have known each other for five years overall. I really like him as a person and enjoyed talking to him. He was in my "friendzone" for four years. In all those years I called him up when I needed advice, support or just wanted to talk about stuff. We talked about other things as well. He knows a lot about me and I do about him. I have to detach those romantic feelings that I have developed on the basis of all the things he said since summer last year and see it for what it is. 

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Relationships don't have to be this complicated, and the apparent fact that you're wasting what are arguably your best years toying with this man (as he toys with you) for "validation" instead of just dating someone available is the real elephant in the room here.

I know. My lord, writing this out makes me understand just how complicated things are. And it really shouldn't. In January I wanted to address this and say, hey, let's not overcomplicate things. This has no future, you are married and I am a single woman in her late twenties. And if it's something casual, we shouldn't pretend that this is something that it is not. I expressed my boundary for him saying "I love you" and all the other things he has said. And his only reply was to say: "I wouldn't have chased you if I only wanted a casual sex thing with you" and "I really want to talk about this with you in person. Look into your eyes, hold your hands, hug you". And I finished this conversation in saying I had a date and that we shouldn't speak for a while. 

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I would note in passing that your sample size for MM's is exactly one. People are serial monogamists and sometimes they go looking for potential new partners before closing out the existing relationship. Not the most fair, honest, or ethical thing to do, but that's life...

I know. But it is very rare. That's why I didn't take this married man too serious. 

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, ellie- said:

@mark clemson

 We have never even met. . In all those years I called him up when I needed advice, support or just wanted to talk about stuff. 

Perhaps it's time to reflect if you just needed someone to talk to. It seems like you were quite lonely and looking for a big brother/father figure, but he started to throw in some sexual stuff for fun.

The best way to overcome all this is a three pronged approach.

1. Enlist the services of a qualified therapist for ongoing support. Join some support groups. Get involved in expanding your horizons socially.

2. Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting local single men.

3. Examine what voids in your life led you down this dark rabbit hole. Try to improve the sense of loneliness and isolation that led to this vulnerability of wanting love and understanding, only to find a married dirty old man at the other end of the line.

[ellie-]

43 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Perhaps it's time to reflect if you just needed someone to talk to. It seems like you were quite lonely and looking for a big brother/father figure, but he started to throw in some sexual stuff for fun.

The best way to overcome all this is a three pronged approach.

1. Enlist the services of a qualified therapist for ongoing support. Join some support groups. Get involved in expanding your horizons socially.

2. Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting local single men.

3. Examine what voids in your life led you down this dark rabbit hole. Try to improve the sense of loneliness and isolation that led to this vulnerability of wanting love and understanding, only to find a married dirty old man at the other end of the line.

Most things you have written don't apply to my situation and come from a place where you have made a variety of assumptions about me, my life circumstances and my emotional state. Thank you, though, for taking the time to read my post and reply with what you think might help. It is highly appreciated. 

[JTSW]

At the end of the day there would never any future with him, even if he did pop back up again.

There is a very significant age gap and he's married.

Guard your heart again men like this.

[ellie-]

12 minutes ago, JTSW said:

At the end of the day there would never any future with him, even if he did pop back up again.

There is a very significant age gap and he's married.

Guard your heart again men like this.

Yes. I am chuckling now as I think that it was never me in the first place that wanted all of this. Now, with some days that have passed, I think it's hilarious that he did and said all of this just to behave like this last minute. My expectations where way off for the reality of this contact. But I couldn't know better, as I have never met him or even offered to meet him. Now I have a better idea that it was all just words and nothing more. It's a blessing in disguise. 

[ExpatInItaly]

I am curious, what did you say to yourself to justify having this sort of contact with a married man?

[ellie-]

41 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I am curious, what did you say to yourself to justify having this sort of contact with a married man?

I didn't think in terms of what our contact could have of an impact in his life (in regards to his family or wife). I only thought that I want to be careful not to get hurt as it's a reality in these types of connections. As I am not the one that is married and I was the one being pursued, I didn't need to justify my behaviour in front of myself. I am not in his marriage, I am not the one who gave vows, I am not the one who is actively stepping out of a relationship. This was with him. All I cared about was not to get hurt as I was aware that I don't want to be with him in a relationship long term and that he already has a life and I am building my own now. And that's also what I addressed in January where I said that was he's doing is dangerous as he is stepping out of his marriage BIG TIME even when saying all those things and that I sometimes think I am the only one that thinks about him being married. In a quiet and serious manner he replied: "I think about this all the time". 

My surprise was only that he made this out to be something it isn't and then not followed up. That was a lot of smoke for ... nothing. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ellie- said:

I didn't think in terms of what our contact could have of an impact in his life (in regards to his family or wife). I only thought that I want to be careful not to get hurt as it's a reality in these types of connections. As I am not the one that is married and I was the one being pursued, I didn't need to justify my behaviour in front of myself.

Ellie, this is something else that you may want to reflect on. I hear what you are saying - you have firmly put this in the “he pursued me” and “we were just friends until this past year” zone… but, is it really appropriate for a woman to be communicating with another woman’s husband? I would kindly suggest that it’s much bigger than simply saying “I am only responsible for/to myself. And I was just trying to protect myself from being hurt.”

And while I agree that he is the married person here and he has a responsibility to his wife - the fact that you felt it was appropriate to communicate with another woman’s husband is something you really should reflect on… if the roles were reversed, would you think it appropriate for a young woman to be communicating with your husband? If you put yourself in her position, how would it feel when you heard her say “hey, I was just thinking about myself. The only person that I was worried about getting hurt was myself.” As women, don’t we have an obligation to treat each other with more respect and consideration than this? 

Edited March 28, 2023 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, ellie- said:

I only thought that I want to be careful not to get hurt as it's a reality in these types of connections. As I am not the one that is married and I was the one being pursued, I didn't need to justify my behaviour in front of myself. I am not in his marriage, I am not the one who

You're correct you could get hurt messing around with a MM and not only by him.  Some wives don't take kindly to other women communicating with their husbands.  Some get really violent with the woman while others set out to ruin their lives.  It's embarrassing having someone's wife show up at your place of employment to ruin your reputation.

[ellie-]

25 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Ellie, this is something else that you may want to reflect on. I hear what you are saying - you have firmly put this in the “he pursued me” and “we were just friends until this past year” zone… but, is it really appropriate for a woman to be communicating with another woman’s husband? I would kindly suggest that it’s much bigger than simply saying “I am only responsible for/to myself. And I was just trying to protect myself from being hurt.”

And while I agree that he is the married person here and he has a responsibility to his wife - the fact that you felt it was appropriate to communicate with another woman’s husband is something you really should reflect on… if the roles were reversed, would you think it appropriate for a young woman to be communicating with your husband? If you put yourself in her position, how would it feel when you heard her say “hey, I was just thinking about myself. The only person that I was worried about getting hurt was myself.” As women, don’t we have an obligation to treat each other with more respect and consideration than this? 

I understand where you are coming from and obviously I have thought about this. To me it was just lighthearted and, as you put it perfect, in the friend zone. Even when he said all those things in the past months, I tried to keep my distance for as long as I can so I can date other men and find my own match without putting too much effort and thoughts into him. It was just from Friday on where I was really surprised and shocked at his behaviour. 

If I would be a woman in her fifties and my husband, who is also in his fifties, would be in contact with a woman in her twenties, I would be disappointed and hurt by my husbands behaviour. If I would know that he has told her all those things while she has expressed boundaries many times saying that she has to be careful with him as this has no future and he still pursued her and then ghosted her after she asked him to grab a coffee, I would be embarrassed. He should know way better. You can't expect a woman in her twenties to have the same level of emotional maturity as well as life experience as he has. As a woman myself, I would see the power imbalance that comes with this significant age gap as well as the things that my (imaginary) husband has said as highly manipulative and predatory. I would never be angry at the woman, she is young and doesn't know better and I would feel for her. I would put the blame where it belongs.  

Obviously, there are many situations where women go out of their way to seduce married men. But that really is not me. 

 

[ellie-]

28 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You're correct you could get hurt messing around with a MM and not only by him.  Some wives don't take kindly to other women communicating with their husbands.  Some get really violent with the woman while others set out to ruin their lives.  It's embarrassing having someone's wife show up at your place of employment to ruin your reputation.

You are right. That could be a possibility. But knowing him and from how he talked about his family, I don't see this as a possibility. I wouldn't be surprised if she sees it exactly for what it is. And as of now, there is nothing. This contact is over as I have been ghosted by him. 

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, ellie- said:

If I would know that he has told her all those things while she has expressed boundaries many times saying that she has to be careful with him as this has no future and he still pursued her and then ghosted her after she asked him to grab a coffee,

The problem here is, you didn’t set a firm boundary. You continued to respond and communicate with a married man, and that is very inappropriate. 

18 minutes ago, ellie- said:

You can't expect a woman in her twenties to have the same level of emotional maturity as well as life experience as he has.

No, but I would expect a young woman in her twenties to understand that it’s very inappropriate to be communicating in secret with a married man. I think you know this, you are just not quite ready to acknowledge it and accept your responsibility in this. Quite simply, he can not communicate with a woman who does not respond to his messages. 

18 minutes ago, ellie- said:

Obviously, there are many situations where women go out of their way to seduce married men. But that really is not me. 

No, but you were complacent here because you did not block him and shut him down - as most women would have done. 

You are young, with maturity you will understand better that it is more complicated than you are attempting to spin it right now. Which is why I say with kindness, not judgement, this is an opportunity for growth and experience. It would be unwise for you to write this off as “all his fault” when you have played your part in this relationship too. I hope you take the opportunity to do some self reflection and grow from this experience.

Edited March 28, 2023 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

Read your response and it's good you seem to be processing this in your own way.

9 hours ago, ellie- said:

I have to detach those romantic feelings that I have developed on the basis of all the things he said since summer last year and see it for what it is.

So it was an emotional affair then. If you are concerned that "he never felt anything for you" or similar, I wouldn't worry. He probably did. However, that doesn't mean any of this will amount to anything. Practical matters often override sentiment in life, and affairs/EAs are certainly no exception to that. And men tend to be good at "compartmentalizing" - so your relationship (such as it is) can be separated out more easily from the rest of his life in his mind.

 

9 hours ago, ellie- said:

I know. But it [people looking for new partners while closing out an existing relationship] is very rare. That's why I didn't take this married man too serious. 

It's actually quite common. However, someone who's been married for decades leaving is less likely, so you're certainly right on that aspect.

Generally, affairs have a low probability of "working out" so the APs end up together. Perhaps on the order of 5% or less, and even less chance turning into a true LTR. However, given the number of people having affairs and modern population sizes, that low % still ends up being a lot of people. So, there are plenty of exceptions floating around.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, ellie- said:

My surprise was only that he made this out to be something it isn't and then not followed up. That was a lot of smoke for ... nothing. 

Married people are only available at their own convenience, so disappearing is common.

The good news is, it's behind you now without much investment or damage and you've seen firsthand that affairs rarely end well.  

The bonus is you've set yourself free to fully explore local single men and enjoy dating without background noise from him.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Wiseman2

[ExpatInItaly]

 

5 hours ago, ellie- said:

I would never be angry at the woman, she is young and doesn't know better and I would feel for her.

Oh, come on. Ellie, a woman in her 20s knows better than to have this sort of contact with a married man. I don't buy for a minute that you are that naive. You knew better. I hope you never come to find out how it feels to be in his wife's shoes, because I can nearly guarantee you that your stance above would change instantly. It serves you well right now to feign innocence, but if the shoe were on the other foot? I have yet to see a betrayed wife feel any sympathy for a grown woman (and yes, that would include women in their 20s) who participated in inapprorpriate behaviour that jeopardized her marriage. 

He's a dog. No question about that. But you were out of line here, too.  This was not inncoent on your part, even if you are not able to admit that to yourself yet. I hope this whole episode gives you the insight you need to grow and make some much better choices in the future. 

Does he know where you live or work, by the way? 

 

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Ellie, a woman in her 20s knows better than to have this sort of contact with a married man. I don't buy for a minute that you are that naive.

I agree.  If you were only 20 or 21 I might understand a bit; but at 28 going on 30 you know the score.

[Will am I]

On 3/26/2023 at 11:02 PM, ellie- said:

I met an MM years ago on OLD. Quickly realised he's married so I kept our contact lighthearted and to a minimum.

So you kept the flame low, but never off.

He must have had the sense of you as a backup plan for all this time. 

The existence of a backup plan is poison to a marriage, but that’s his problem. I do wonder why you allowed yourself to be in this position instead of pursuing a relationship with someone available and committed to you. 

[pepperbird2]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:07 AM, ellie- said:

I didn't think in terms of what our contact could have of an impact in his life (in regards to his family or wife). I only thought that I want to be careful not to get hurt as it's a reality in these types of connections. As I am not the one that is married and I was the one being pursued, I didn't need to justify my behaviour in front of myself. I am not in his marriage, I am not the one who gave vows, I am not the one who is actively stepping out of a relationship. This was with him. All I cared about was not to get hurt as I was aware that I don't want to be with him in a relationship long term and that he already has a life and I am building my own now. And that's also what I addressed in January where I said that was he's doing is dangerous as he is stepping out of his marriage BIG TIME even when saying all those things and that I sometimes think I am the only one that thinks about him being married. In a quiet and serious manner he replied: "I think about this all the time". 

My surprise was only that he made this out to be something it isn't and then not followed up. That was a lot of smoke for ... nothing. 

So you were okay asking his wife and family to pay the price for your dalliance?

I’m glad it didn’t work out. You strike me as the kind who might really regret getting involved with a married man.

[pepperbird2]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:41 AM, ellie- said:

I understand where you are coming from and obviously I have thought about this. To me it was just lighthearted and, as you put it perfect, in the friend zone. Even when he said all those things in the past months, I tried to keep my distance for as long as I can so I can date other men and find my own match without putting too much effort and thoughts into him. It was just from Friday on where I was really surprised and shocked at his behaviour. 

If I would be a woman in her fifties and my husband, who is also in his fifties, would be in contact with a woman in her twenties, I would be disappointed and hurt by my husbands behaviour. If I would know that he has told her all those things while she has expressed boundaries many times saying that she has to be careful with him as this has no future and he still pursued her and then ghosted her after she asked him to grab a coffee, I would be embarrassed. He should know way better. You can't expect a woman in her twenties to have the same level of emotional maturity as well as life experience as he has. As a woman myself, I would see the power imbalance that comes with this significant age gap as well as the things that my (imaginary) husband has said as highly manipulative and predatory. I would never be angry at the woman, she is young and doesn't know better and I would feel for her. I would put the blame where it belongs.  

Obviously, there are many situations where women go out of their way to seduce married men. But that really is not me. 

 

So a woman in her twenties can vote, hold down a job, be held criminally/ civilly liable, can choose to accept medical treatment, drink alcohol, enlist in the armed forces, buy a home, apply for credit, parent kids, use cannabis,  run for political office…. Heck she can even apply for MAID, but she is too young to know when a guy is hitting on her? 
 

I’m sorry, but that’s a cop out. You knew what you were doing, and the only reason you stopped is because he ghosted you.