Wondering how I feel about new acquaintance, what to do next, whether I was taken advantage of and whether I could be lying to myself

[Wiseman2]

Just now, TheEternalPessimist said:

She could be a bit more invested and clear about how she sees things going forward.

"Going forward"? She's an acquaintance who doesn't owe you anything especially free room and board and entertainment because you're would like to see her city one day. She's been crystal clear that her place is too small to have you stay there. 

[ExpatInItaly]

29 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I'm going on about quality time based on previous experiences in similar situations with friends where their poor planning and them insisting on having certain rules

Right, but who is the common denominator here? 

I am not saying everything is your fault, but if this keeps happening, you should reconsider how you might be contributing to this. In this situation, anyway, you seem intense relative to the time you have actually known this person. 

Can you give us an example of the "rules" friends have insisted on in the past? Who were these people to you? 

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Right, but who is the common denominator here? 

I am not saying everything is your fault, but if this keeps happening, you should reconsider how you might be contributing to this. In this situation, anyway, you seem intense relative to the time you have actually known this person. 

Can you give us an example of the "rules" friends have insisted on in the past? Who were these people to you? 

I wasn't responsible for the poor planning and certain rules, they were.

They were friends I met on a cruise when I was younger and we stayed in touch. Then I went to visit them in their country during one summer and it didn't exactly go as planned. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

"Going forward"? She's an acquaintance who doesn't owe you anything especially free room and board and entertainment because you're would like to see her city one day. She's been crystal clear that her place is too small to have you stay there. 

Yes she doesn't owe me anything, it's just that there is a bare minimum which I question whether or not she is able to deliver. 

[ExpatInItaly]

6 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I wasn't responsible for the poor planning and certain rules, they were

You've misunderstood what I meant. Let me clarify: maybe you're expecting too much of people you visit. I can see shades of that here, so I am wondering if that's been an issue in the past. 

This is why I asked for an example. How did this visit to your cruise-friends not go as planned? I'm trying to understand if you're standing in your own way here. Can you elaborate on what happened in that case? What were the rules they imposed on you? 

6 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

it's just that there is a bare minimum which I question whether or not she is able to deliver. 

Then dial it back. Don't plan anything right now. See how you two communicate in the coming weeks. Cool your jets, in other words. You risk putting too much pressure on the situation and it backfiring. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by ExpatInItaly

[JTSW]

14 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

How am I making it difficult?? She could be a bit more invested and clear about how she sees things going forward.

She doesn't have to be anything.

She doesn't know you.

[TheEternalPessimist]

9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You've misunderstood what I meant. Let me clarify: maybe you're expecting too much of people you visit. I can see shades of that here, so I am wondering if that's been an issue in the past. 

This is why I asked for an example. How did this visit to your cruise-friends not go as planned? I'm trying to understand if you're standing in your own way here. Can you elaborate on what happened in that case? What were the rules they imposed on you? 

Then dial it back. Don't plan anything right now. See how you two communicate in the coming weeks. Cool your jets, in other words. You risk putting too much pressure on the situation and it backfiring. 

I'm usually expecting the bare minimum (and yes I know sleeping at someone's place is more than the bare minimum).

Their behaviors during my visit and after were wrong, it became clear to me that they did not appreciate what I did for them and that they were taking me for granted so I cut ties ultimately.

Ok, yes I plan to wait anyways. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

10 minutes ago, JTSW said:

She doesn't have to be anything.

She doesn't know you.

Then she shouldn't be making plans with me for us to see each other again, she should make it clear to me if for her I'm just a vacation acquaintance and nothing more. 

[basil67]

I think that what it comes back to is each of your understandings of your visit.

People can come to a city with the attitude of "I'm coming to your city and I'd like to meet while I'm there".  Or, they can come with the attitude of "I'm coming to your city to see you"  Both of which are very reasonable things to do, and if not spelled out, either lead to disappointment if the needs aren't met. 1. getting stuck with them the whole time vs 2. going all that way and not seeing them enough

Now, I can't speak for the people who met you on the cruise, but it's entirely possible (and reasonable) that they thought you were coming to their city and wanted to meet them while you were there. That the city was the main reason for your visit, not seeing them.  If so, it's understandable that they'd catch up with you once.  Therefore, you'd need to clarify this stuff before planning a visit with this woman.

And for what it's worth, my country cousins come to stay with me in a capital city and spend their whole time exploring the city and having romantic dinners as a couple.  Nothing wrong with that....it's just a reminder to not make assumptions

[basil67]

Just now, TheEternalPessimist said:

Then she shouldn't be making plans with me for us to see each other again, she should make it clear to me if for her I'm just a vacation acquaintance and nothing more. 

Without out a doubt, you are a vacation acquaintance.  As is pretty much everyone we meet on vacation.

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I'm usually expecting the bare minimum (and yes I know sleeping at someone's place is more than the bare minimum).

Their behaviors during my visit and after were wrong, it became clear to me that they did not appreciate what I did for them and that they were taking me for granted so I cut ties ultimately.

Ok, yes I plan to wait anyways. 

What did you do for them?

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Their behaviors during my visit and after were wrong, it became clear to me that they did not appreciate what I did for them and that they were taking me for granted so I cut ties ultimately.

Is there is a reason you're being so vague? 

Specifically, what did they do that you did not like? What did you do for them that you feel they took for granted? It's hard to get a sense of the bigger story when you omit details. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

I think that what it comes back to is each of your understandings of your visit.

People can come to a city with the attitude of "I'm coming to your city and I'd like to meet while I'm there".  Or, they can come with the attitude of "I'm coming to your city to see you"  Both of which are very reasonable things to do, and if not spelled out, either lead to disappointment if the needs aren't met. 1. getting stuck with them the whole time vs 2. going all that way and not seeing them enough

Now, I can't speak for the people who met you on the cruise, but it's entirely possible (and reasonable) that they thought you were coming to their city and wanted to meet them while you were there. That the city was the main reason for your visit, not seeing them.  If so, it's understandable that they'd catch up with you once.  Therefore, you'd need to clarify this stuff before planning a visit with this woman.

And for what it's worth, my country cousins come to stay with me in a capital city and spend their whole time exploring the city and having romantic dinners as a couple.  Nothing wrong with that....it's just a reminder to not make assumptions

My visit to those cities has always been about meeting my friends (or the people who I thought were my friends) and never about just randomly visiting because oh so coincidentally they happen to live there. If they all thought I was coming just to see their cities and not specifically to see them (even though I made it clear that's why I was coming) then they are quite dumb and naive. 

Well if I was in a relationship, I likely wouldn't be coming to her city with the goal of seeing her.

[JTSW]

1 minute ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Then she shouldn't be making plans with me for us to see each other again, she should make it clear to me if for her I'm just a vacation acquaintance and nothing more. 

You are way overthinking things.

She liked you as it friend only it seems.

There are people that just like to go with the flow and see where it takes them.

You have made unfair assumptions about her and making things far too intense and complicated.

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I'm just a vacation acquaintance and nothing more. 

Of course you are. The fact that you think you're anything more than that is puzzling. You're attaching way too much significance to this. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

What did you do for them?

I flew to another continent to visit them, spent a lot of money and countless hours traveling just so we could hang out and in the end I felt disrespect, as if they did not understand that what I did for them isn't something that I would do for just about anybody.

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, JTSW said:

You are way overthinking things.

She liked you as it friend only it seems.

There are people that just like to go with the flow and see where it takes them.

You have made unfair assumptions about her and making things far too intense and complicated.

It's fine if she likes me as a friend only though I have reasons to doubt that she even considers me a friend to begin with. She could be a bit more invested and caring but that's on her. 

[ExpatInItaly]

Do you tend to struggle with local friendships as well?

1 minute ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I flew to another continent to visit them, spent a lot of money and countless hours traveling just so we could hang out

Why did you do this? Did they specifically invite you to visit them? 

[TheEternalPessimist]

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Is there is a reason you're being so vague? 

Specifically, what did they do that you did not like? What did you do for them that you feel they took for granted? It's hard to get a sense of the bigger story when you omit details. 

I'm being so vague because it was a long time ago, I was much younger and it's not really relevant to what is going on today in 2023. What I want above all is to avoid looking like a fool and being taken for granted again hence my hesitations. 

[Ageless Wisdom23]

...Mostly Gay.  Stay Put.  You will end up not only booking a hotel Room, But not being the life of her party.  Meaning mainly alone.  Stay her friend.😑

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

Do you tend to struggle with local friendships as well?

Why did you do this? Did they specifically invite you to visit them? 

I did this because I wanted to see them again and so we could hang out as friends do. I don't remember if they specifically invited me to visit them, it was too long ago. 

[ExpatInItaly]

Just now, TheEternalPessimist said:

it's not really relevant to what is going on today in 2023.

Well, if that's the case, why did you even mention that it's happened before? 

It's relevant because you apparently have a pattern here, and you're risk repeating the same unfortunate situation as before. I don't know what to tell you if you can't connect the dots there, man. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, Ageless Wisdom23 said:

...Mostly Gay.  Stay Put.  You will end up not only booking a hotel Room, But not being the life of her party.  Meaning mainly alone.  Stay her friend.😑

I'm fine with spending part of the trip alone but if I come and I get the feeling that she is only seeing me briefly because she feels forced to then I simply won't be coming.

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Well, if that's the case, why did you even mention that it's happened before? 

It's relevant because you apparently have a pattern here, and you're risk repeating the same unfortunate situation as before. I don't know what to tell you if you can't connect the dots there, man. 

I mention it to let you all know that I've played in this movie before so I tend to be cautious now to avoid looking like a fool again.

Connect the dots in what way exactly?

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I flew to another continent to visit them, spent a lot of money and countless hours traveling just so we could hang out and in the end I felt disrespect, as if they did not understand that what I did for them isn't something that I would do for just about anybody.

Did they plan a heap of things you'd be doing together before you booked the holiday?  Or did you assume that it would be happening?