Are my expectations too high?

[MaxxNY]

 @S2B @ShyViolet @Alpacalia

Thank you, your responses struck a chord. It does seem like the emotional attachment on her part is not there. Otherwise she would have been more likely to protect this relationship even if she is not used to having to do so in the past...or at least be more receptive to what I had to say. 

It probably did not sound like a partner expressing his concerns to her, it sounded like the guy she is dating encroaching on her freedoms

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by MaxxNY

[Alpacalia]

Have you tried to understand her feelings and why she reacted the way she did when you tried to talk to her?

It's possible that she wasn't trying to be disrespectful, rather that she was shielding her feelings and establishing some boundaries. Hear her out without judging her. Although you can't dictate how she interacts with other people, it is reasonable to ask that you and your partner be respected and that the trust in your relationship be maintained. Make sure you communicate your needs and desires clearly while allowing a certain degree of freedom.

I understand that it is a difficult question to ask, but I'm curious - how have your feelings for her evolved over time? Is there something about your relationship that makes you stay, even though it may not feel the same as being in love or loving her?

It's clear that you have strong feelings for her, but it's not necessarily the same as being in love or loving someone.

[MaxxNY]

@Alpacalia When I initially approached her about this I was very careful not to sound accusatory. I actually started off by bringing up a local guy she met while walking her dog she told me she DID draw boundaries with. Then I asked, lets say you saw him again at the local coffee shop while picking up lunch, and he asked you to join him (just for lunch), would you? She said she would not because she is in a relationship. I then switched gears and said that the only difference between the local guy and the coworker is the circumstances in which their met. Once you cross from the professional to personal territory there is no difference between both men. 

When you mention me understanding her feelings and boundaries, I know that I was not being accusatory. The  only boundary I can think of is her not being able to freely interact with this guy, hence getting upset, and confrontational when I brought it up. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by MaxxNY

[Alpacalia]

10 minutes ago, MaxxNY said:

I actually started off by bringing up a local guy she met while walking her dog she told me she DID draw boundaries with. Then I asked, lets say you saw him again at the local coffee shop while picking up lunch, and he asked you to join him (just for lunch), would you? She said she would not because she is in a relationship. I then switched gears and said that the only difference between the local guy and the coworker is the circumstances in which their met. Once you cross from the professional to personal territory there is no difference between both men. 

What kind of relationship do you want with this woman in which you police every interaction she has with men in the future? It seems that now, all her problems stem from the fact that any man who crosses her path seems to be a problem.

I've noticed you have omitted responses to the "I love you" comments twice now.

 

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, MaxxNY said:

The  only boundary I can think of is her not being able to freely interact with this guy, hence getting upset, and confrontational when I brought it up. 

Well yes.  One of her boundaries is likely that she doesn't want a partner who puts limitations on what she believes is perfectly acceptable behaviour.  

You are not wrong to want what you want.  She is not wrong to want what she wants.  But the two of you want different things.

[MaxxNY]

21 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Well yes.  One of her boundaries is likely that she doesn't want a partner who puts limitations on what she believes is perfectly acceptable behaviour.  

You are not wrong to want what you want.  She is not wrong to want what she wants.  But the two of you want different things.

Clearly we are not on the same page, but we know that already. However you seem to be critical here. How would you have handled it?

[MaxxNY]

26 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

What kind of relationship do you want with this woman in which you police every interaction she has with men in the future? It seems that now, all her problems stem from the fact that any man who crosses her path seems to be a problem.

I've noticed you have omitted responses to the "I love you" comments twice now.

 

I certainly don’t want that kind of relationship. I want one where I know she draws those boundaries on her own 

as far as love goes I did state that I expressed my feelings and intentions. She also wanted to be in a a committed exclusive relationship 

[MaxxNY]

1 minute ago, S2B said:

You are trying to control her with imposing YOUR boundary into HER.

why are you afraid to end it?

Few days after the initial conversation she reached out to me and wanted to discuss things. She was more open to listening and even brought to some ground rules we would both agree on. Perhaps deep inside I hope that she was naive or just eating the boundaries 

[Wiseman2]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:30 PM, MaxxNY said:

 We have known each other for few years . About a year ago we started dating. 

I never heard her say "I love you"  

Unfortunately it seems you may be looking for reasons to end things because the intimacy and affection is unsatisfactory. Do you think it was difficult transitioning to dating? Or that the relationship is coasting along?

[basil67]

1 hour ago, MaxxNY said:

Clearly we are not on the same page, but we know that already. However you seem to be critical here. How would you have handled it?

Ah, I thought I had answered that, but a quick scan shows that I did not.   I've always been in the camp of observing to see if their choices and beliefs are compatible with mine.  If they aren't compatible, I'd end it.  There's a fine line between stating a boundary and trying to change another person.

 

[MaxxNY]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately it seems you may be looking for reasons to end things because the intimacy and affection is unsatisfactory. Do you think it was difficult transitioning to dating? Or that the relationship is coasting along?

It was a very natural transition. We were already into the same activities and social circles. Once we got closer, things got intimate. After about 3 months we discussed being exclusive. To me it seemed natural. However knowing that she comes from a more “liberal ” background I asked her if and why she wants to be in a committed relationship. She would say she likes me and wants to take things to the next level. However there was never much urgency on her part to take that step. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

. However knowing that she comes from a more “liberal ” background I asked her if and why she wants to be in a committed relationship. 

Perhaps the lines are blurred because she offered too much information about her past. All you can do is accept who she is now and with you. If her past continues to haunt you to the point that you fear having lunch with male coworkers is a slippery slope, then perhaps you have a different value system. You seem to depict her as being less conservative than you prefer, that she's somehow so promiscuous that monogamy isn't possible with her. Either way it all comes down to whether you're able to trust her.

[MaxxNY]

12 hours ago, S2B said:

What exactly were her ground rules she suggested? 
 

did she even admit she let the other guy in and that was intrusive within your relationship?

what changes does she expect to make for herself?

She admitted that in the past she never had to be mindful of such behaviors because she was not committed to anyone. She claimed that she had no intentions towards the guy but realizes how that situation could have led to more and will not be putting herself in those circumstances. 
was it genuine? Did she just tell me what I wanted to hear? I suppose time will tell 
 

[Gaeta]

51 minutes ago, MaxxNY said:

she had no intentions towards the guy but realizes how that situation could have led to more and will not be putting herself in those circumstances. 
was it genuine? Did she just tell me what I wanted to hear?

You really want to be teaching a 42 yo woman what is proper and not? She did not spend the last 42 years under a rock. She's never been monogamous so she doesn't know how it works? Nah! 

This was not an occasional lunch with a colleague. That is several lunches with a man she knows has the hots for her. 

But that's one of your problem. I'm still stuck on you wanting to build a life with a woman that won't say she love you after all this time

[Wiseman2]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:30 PM, MaxxNY said:

 She was in one serious relationship when she was in her 20s and had a child. The guy passed away, and she concentrated on  pursuing her career and raising her daughter and was not dating until about 6-7 years ago. 

It doesn't seem like you're ever going to trust her. Even when she came around to your way of thinking, you suspect she's insincere.

When situations start turning into damned if you do, damned you don't, your relationship may have run it's course.

If you feel you have to be looking over your shoulder because she's either too friendly with coworkers or lying about it, you may both build up a lot of resentment.

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Wiseman2

[Els]

14 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

Clearly we are not on the same page, but we know that already. However you seem to be critical here. How would you have handled it?

In your place, if I didn't want a partner ever having lunch 1 on 1 with a coworker of the opposite sex, I would have mentioned this boundary at the very beginning of any potential relationship, as IMO it's not a common boundary at all (at least, not in a Western country in 2023). This will automatically weed out people who are incompatible with you.

Quote

I then switched gears and said that the only difference between the local guy and the coworker is the circumstances in which their met. Once you cross from the professional to personal territory there is no difference between both men.

Are you being willingly obtuse? Yes, the only difference is that she has a professional relationship with this person... and that's a BIG difference! She can blow off random dog-walking dude with no repercussion to her career at all. How on earth is that the same???

Edited March 31, 2023 by Els

[Alpacalia]

15 hours ago, MaxxNY said:

I certainly don’t want that kind of relationship. I want one where I know she draws those boundaries on her own 

as far as love goes I did state that I expressed my feelings and intentions. She also wanted to be in a a committed exclusive relationship 

Okay I understand your need to feel safe.

I believe that if you're dating an amazing girl, it is likely that other guys will be attracted to her. It's all about her. If you aren't confident in your relationship and have reason to not be 100% trusting, then it's understandable to be worried and check-in on her from time to time. If you're paranoid then there is something wrong.

Your girlfriend would prefer not spend time alone with someone who expressed romantic feelings for her, so as to not give him any false hopes or create any worry in you about why she was spending time with someone who had feelings for her when she is already with you.

That aside.

Why your girlfriend chooses to stay with you after being together for a year and not expressing or receiving verbal expressions of love is beyond me.

I wouldn't stay with someone who couldn't tell me after a year of dating that they loved me.

You feel something for her, but that's not the same thing. Though you aren't sure yourself, you expect her to say it?

Having a boyfriend who is jealous or possessive of others but does not express his love for you is discerning.

[Weezy1973]

@MaxxNY I’ve dated women with similar boundaries in the past and in those instances it was due to an insecure attachment style. Essentially they either consciously or subconsciously didn’t believe in “forever” and to protect themselves, they would make sure they always had options when the relationship would inevitably end. Making sure other men were still interested in them was a way to do that. 
 

Of course this is just an example of a self fulfilling prophecy. 
 

As to whether or no she needs to maintain boundaries at work, it’s a resounding yes she should. A lot, if not most, affairs start at work. If she were interested in protecting your relationship, she would naturally not take 1 on 1 lunches with men she believes might be attracted to her.

[Alpacalia]

This isn't merely a colleague; it's also someone she encountered during a walk with her pup. It's not an issue of trusting your partner, but rather one of trusting yourself to believe what she tells you. You either do or you don't.

She was forthright and took the necessary steps to cut off contact. She can't control other people's opinions, but she can control her own reactions.

Your girlfriend stopped going to lunch with him and she stopped whatever interaction with the dog walker was that you briefly mentioned. She didn't have to tell you about this guy. She could have just kept it a secret and you'd be none the wiser. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Alpacalia