Dating with caution and unsure how to proceed

[spiderowl]

I am sorry how it turned out, OP, but maybe you were very astute and realised he was not the person to commit. Frankly, he has lots of options if he is genuinely handsome and a doctor. That does not mean you are not attractive or right for him but it does mean he could be like a kid in a candy shop, confused by the choice. He talks about wanting things to be perfect - I doubt he’ll ever find that so he will bring heartache to others as well.

The other thing that struck me is he referred to a relationship in his twenties. I don’t know how that ended but some guys get really stuck on one person and ‘play the role’ with subsequent partners but never really have the same depth of feeling. He may be like that.

Regardless, I think you realised he had commitment issues before you went into this and you weren’t wrong. I hope the next guy you like is more what you need.

 

 

 

[flow28]

Well, the fact that he's 41 and has not been in a serious relationship since his early 20s would be a solid red flag to me. You have to tell him that more consistent communication is important to you. Communicate to him that when he doesn't get back with you for so long it puts you off. If he cares he should change his behaviour. I agree with what introverted1 wrote, it seems you both need to have an honest talk about each other's view regarding sex and intimacy. If he continues breaks in communication you might want to move on to someone who's more compatible with you. He may have commitment issues but at this age he should have things figured out. If he's told you about his fear of vulnerability then how about you suggest that he goes to therapy? Maybe that's the only way he can be helped. In my opinion he's just too old to have such problems and a little bit of therapy could go a long way. 

[flow28]

On 5/8/2023 at 8:48 AM, rosean said:

My ex and I waited two months of dating for sex which was when I was ready and it was great. He was happy to wait and we fooled around in the meantime. We had sex when I felt safe.

He approached me at a bar. he has never used online dating. I wasn't into him at first because, and after a few dates I said it would be best to just stay friends because of all his travelling and punctuality. This just made him push harder and I guess also project all this on to me.

Early on, he was late by up to an hour. His cousin was going on and on about his punctuality as were some of his friends who I met. He mentioned a nurse at work had called him up on it as well. He turned it around after I spoke to him about it and it was no longer a problem.

I agree with you, he's not convinced enough and hasn't been with anyone in his past. I also agree he wouldn't be silent for four days if he was truly serious...

-----

UPDATE

He messaged me this morning saying he was sorry for being out of touch. He called me and said he had done a lot of thinking, and wasn't fully there to meet me halfway. He said the strong feelings were there, he adores me, and that him bringing me around to friends and family wasn't flippant. He doesn't think we are a long term match.

He asked me how I felt and I said a lot of good things, but also shared I felt he lacked certain qualities needed for something long term. He said it was hard to hear but he'd take it on board. I'm disappointed with his silence and feel sorry it didn't work out.

I also asked him why he felt we weren't suited, and he said he couldn't articulate it or understand why exactly but would probably understand more with time passing. Usually when I feel I'm not a match with someone I know exactly why, so naturally I'm curious why he doesn't understand them himself. 

Thanks everyone for your comments and feedback! I'm happy I didn't approach this pulling away situation with anxiety and also didn't get too attached to an outcome.

At this point you can draw the conclusion that you shouldn't become attached too quickly, even if it's been a few months. I know it's easier said than done because I myself analyse a lot when a man pulls away but I'm learning to stop thinking about it so much. With some people everything can change at the blink of an eye so don't blame yourself or try to find out why he doesn't think you're a match. If he was the right one he would stay, it's as simple as that. 

[rosean]

Thanks everyone again for your comments. I'll try my best to get through them all because I feel I haven't been articulating my thoughts into words!!

19 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Sorry things didn't work out OP.

The distinct impression I get is that either your guy met somebody else or the prospect of having sex with you (this was likely to happen on your birthday, right?) kind of scared him off. Full intimacy would have meant that you were moving to the next stage in the relationship, and he would probably have felt overwhelmed. So he exited before then.

Having said that, it sounds like you have somewhat rigid ways of viewing other people. So, for instance, there's your insistence that not having sex was not a factor for the men you were involved with. How do you know? Unless you're a mind reader, you can't know some things for sure. So it's wise to keep an open mind. Sometimes people tell you what you want to hear. Perhaps they don't want to hurt your feelings. Perhaps they want to come across as being respectful of your boundaries, but deep down inside, they want something more sooner.

Another thing I noticed was that you kept blaming the apparent end of your relationship on your guy. And you know what? You may be absolutely right. He doesn't have an encouraging track record where long-term relationships are concerned. But then, I can't help wondering why you even contemplated dating him. If you're so certain that someone is not capable of sticking around in the long term, why waste your time, energy and emotions on a relationship with him? Is it possible that you yourself are trying to avoid emotional intimacy and vulnerability and are therefore choosing to get involved with people who won't stick around for very long? 

Edited to add: Btw, introducing you to close friends and family doesn't necessarily mean anything. Some people actually do the introductions because they know they're already pulling away. Perhaps they think that doing this will force them to draw closer and will ultimately save the relationship. But then the introductions don't save the day because there are fundamental incompatibilities between the two or the person really is terrified of commitment.

I think this is also what happened regarding my birthday. 

I don't think he met someone else. Just a gut feel. 

I met family and friends and then there was a week where we both caught the flu and he told me he felt 'off'. This was also when I sensed a subtle shift in his communication. I didn't see a change in his behaviour though nor did I sense it was 'off'.

I can only speak for what I felt and sensed and my intuition which is probably why it's not translating well into words or I'm coming across as rigid! 

I feel the reason I'm blaming him is because he doesn't have a good track record but also 'doesn't know' why we are not suitable. If it was something like misaligned values, travel etc it'd be easy to identify.  

It's possible he knows why and isn't telling me, but he also suggested we talk about it later when he had more time to think over why, and I declined. I don't think there was anything specific or 'subtle'.

I think he had a feeling of wanting out, but probably doesn't know why. I'm just going off my gut  as well as what he told me about other women and his 20 year career dating.

I did turn him down after the third or fourth date and he ramped his efforts right up so he must have seen it as a challenge and need to prove himself.. Calls, videos, messages, planning dates, sweet gestures, moving things forward. I spoke to family and friends and they insisted I give him a chance!! I feel SOOOO stupid for not sticking to my guns.

There were moment he pulled back when he revealed his fears etc looking back he basically warned me about himself yet I was stupid enough to continue because his actions were doing all the talking. I'm just glad I didn't get too attached!!!

19 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Sex is a factor for all men unless they are quite asexual / low sex drive individuals, IMO.  

 I don't think I'm explaining myself well or have in earlier posts and perhaps have gotten a little defensive too!! I never intend to use it as a power move with a guy but in this case I  held back because I wanted him to show me he was capable of committing. I do need an element of safety otherwise it's not enjoyable. I don't go by timeframes or make demands, I just want to feel safe

 If I feel safe I will sleep with a guy. But I did that 2 years ago and the whole experience left me feeling crushed, so now I'd prefer to take a bit more time to get to know him and see if he's in a place for something long term. I don't have a checklist or anything and definitely am not rigid in my body language!! I'm very receiving as a person

19 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree that having sex or waiting wouldn't have made any difference.  

There's a few things you can consider when dating next time. One is that meeting friends and family is not that significant. It's by no means any sign of commitment. For example his people may be quite used to him bringing around the flavor of the month. So next time try not to interpret this as anything.

The other thing is sexless sleepovers are silly. If you are not ready for sex, go home after dates. Spending the night in the same bed  cuddling, etc. just minus penetration/intercourse doesn't accomplish anything.  Just go home.

 

He hasn't ever brought a girl around to his family - his cousin told me she'd never seen him this excited and that he has never introduced a woman to his family. 

I don't fully agree about the sleepovers etc, I usually do what I feel is right. But perhaps something to consider 

On 5/8/2023 at 11:23 PM, Gaeta said:

But that means nothing if it doesn't stand the test of time. He did not play prince charming very long did he. Your relationship was 3.5 months and he started pulling away *weeks* ago, your words. Most relationship don't make it past the 3 month mark, because it's when reality hits and infatuation has run its course. Talking long term goals, introducing friends & family under 3 months dating should have raised some flags as well. 

It sucks to be going through another disappointment. You sound like a level headed woman, I am sure the right guy will come along soon. Continue trusting your instinct. 

Thank you and you're right! It doesn't mean much if it can't be kept up past a few months. 

I know there's no way to prevent this from happening when a guy is doing 'everything right' but I'd love to prevent this from happening again. While I'm not crying and struggling to cope during the day (yay!) I do feel down for having to start all over again and definitely have some apprehension about going through the same thing. 

I honestly feel soooo stupid wasting months of my precious time I'll never get back. It's hard knowing whether it's your anxiety or gut telling you something... but in this case my gut told me not to continue after a few dates FOR A REASON!!

On 5/9/2023 at 12:31 AM, Weezy1973 said:

This seems to be a pattern that isn’t working for you. If you want things to change, you need to change what you’re doing.

I'm fluid with looks (to a point) but personality is something I'm pretty firm on. I think I am giving 'chances' to guys when I initially don't feel anything for/no connection or one's I feel have some red flags, especially ones who by 'society's standards' are good on paper (like the doctor). I do get told I'm picky, but not too picky, so I shouldn't have too much trouble. I  also get told I should keep an open mind BUT this clearly isn't working for me!!! 

I have asked people close to me for feedback and all I get told is I'm having bad luck. I know my directness (saying what I feel with tact of course!!) would put people off if they prefer someone more meek, but if I'm making it through to months of dating it's not that. 

[Wiseman2]

18 minutes ago, rosean said:

.it's possible he knows why and isn't telling me, I think he had a feeling of wanting out, but probably doesn't know why. 

This seems accurate. He probably wanted to exit with minimal drama.

Everyone knows why they end things. Even if is nebulous, but just not feeling right. If he's a physician he doesn't seem that clueless and lost. He's a grown man with plenty of choices not a wounded puppy who's afraid of everything.

Overall dating is to get to know each other and in this case the incompatibilities were becoming more and more apparent to both of you. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Wiseman2

[rosean]

18 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I am sorry how it turned out, OP, but maybe you were very astute and realised he was not the person to commit. Frankly, he has lots of options if he is genuinely handsome and a doctor. That does not mean you are not attractive or right for him but it does mean he could be like a kid in a candy shop, confused by the choice. He talks about wanting things to be perfect - I doubt he’ll ever find that so he will bring heartache to others as well.

The other thing that struck me is he referred to a relationship in his twenties. I don’t know how that ended but some guys get really stuck on one person and ‘play the role’ with subsequent partners but never really have the same depth of feeling. He may be like that.

Regardless, I think you realised he had commitment issues before you went into this and you weren’t wrong. I hope the next guy you like is more what you need.

I did know about the commitment issues and voiced my concerns many times with friends and family who told me to just give it a chance. 

He was handsome ...but also not as good looking as guys closer to my age who are also doing well in their careers, making good money etc, and he knew it. I guess this made him prove himself more early on because he couldn't figure out if I liked him or not. 

No doubt he's stuck on this woman from his past and the heartbreak from that not working out has closed him off! 

13 hours ago, flow28 said:

Well, the fact that he's 41 and has not been in a serious relationship since his early 20s would be a solid red flag to me. You have to tell him that more consistent communication is important to you. Communicate to him that when he doesn't get back with you for so long it puts you off. If he cares he should change his behaviour. I agree with what introverted1 wrote, it seems you both need to have an honest talk about each other's view regarding sex and intimacy. If he continues breaks in communication you might want to move on to someone who's more compatible with you. He may have commitment issues but at this age he should have things figured out. If he's told you about his fear of vulnerability then how about you suggest that he goes to therapy? Maybe that's the only way he can be helped. In my opinion he's just too old to have such problems and a little bit of therapy could go a long way. 

Thanks - we are long over now haha. I did suggest he get professional help and he said 'why would i do that if i already know what my problem is?' - again another red flag... 

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

This seems accurate. He probably wanted to exit with minimal drama.

Everyone knows why they end things. Even if is nebulous, but just not feeling right. If he's a physician he doesn't seem that clueless and lost. He's a grown man with plenty of choices not a wounded puppy who's afraid of everything.

Overall dating is to get to know each other and in this case the incompatibilities were becoming more and more apparent to both of you. 

 He's definitely not clueless and is pretty dedicated with other aspects of his life. He just has a fear of being vulnerable romantically and struggles taking risks (in all aspects of life from what he shared).

This was more likely the reason he felt he didn't want to continue and wanted to get out. Nothing major or minor happened. Possibly an act he pulls repeatedly thinking things will change with the next person. 

[Wiseman2]

42 minutes ago, rosean said:

 I did suggest he get professional help and he said 'why would i do that if i already know what my problem is?' - 

How long after you suggested he needs therapy, did he start fading? If you were making him feel defective, it's natural that he would walk away. It's doubtful someone needs therapy in order to date you. If you feel they do, it's probably better to cut your losses  and walk away as soon as you sense this.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Wiseman2

[basil67]

1 hour ago, rosean said:

I feel the reason I'm blaming him is because he doesn't have a good track record but also 'doesn't know' why we are not suitable. If it was something like misaligned values, travel etc it'd be easy to identify.  

If blaming him makes you feel better, that's fine.  But is blame really required?  Can't it be chalked up to 'it didn't work out'?

In days past, I've broken up with boyfriends without knowing why exactly we weren't suitable - the reason would be something intangible that I couldn't quite put my finger on. As you say, for whatever reason he wanted out.   Would you prefer he'd hung on and kept working on it even though he wasn't feeling it for whatever reason?  

 

[rosean]

38 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

How long after you suggested he needs therapy, did he start fading? If you were making him feel defective, it's natural that he would walk away. It's doubtful someone needs therapy in order to date you. If you feel they do, it's probably better to cut your losses  and walk away as soon as you sense this.

This was around the time he first opened up about his fears. I asked him "would you get professional help?" - I never brought it up again.

You don't need therapy to date someone but if you're riddled with fear and it's been persistent over the years it's not a bad thing to explore. I think we as humans tend to make the same mistakes over and over again until we choose not to. 

28 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If blaming him makes you feel better, that's fine.  But is blame really required?  Can't it be chalked up to 'it didn't work out'?

In days past, I've broken up with boyfriends without knowing why exactly we weren't suitable - the reason would be something intangible that I couldn't quite put my finger on. As you say, for whatever reason he wanted out.   Would you prefer he'd hung on and kept working on it even though he wasn't feeling it for whatever reason?  

it's a reaction I'm having to things not working out and me trying to look for answers as to why and what happened and signs etc. I've accepted we're done and I'm not upset about that. I'm more upset I went against my gut feel early on. Knowing his lack of commitment to previous women raised alarm bells, and him telling me about all his fears was a sign for me to exit. 

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, rosean said:

I feel the reason I'm blaming him is because he doesn't have a good track record but also 'doesn't know' why we are not suitable. If it was something like misaligned values, travel etc it'd be easy to identify.  

Honestly I bet that most people break up because of vague reasons that end up being more like "just not feeling it."  This doesn't have to be because the person was not the "right" person for any reason.   Maybe the dumper was simply not ready.  In some cases - maybe yours - they are never going to be "feeling it" enough to be ready.

1 hour ago, rosean said:

I did turn him down after the third or fourth date and he ramped his efforts right up so he must have seen it as a challenge and need to prove himself.. Calls, videos, messages, planning dates, sweet gestures, moving things forward. I spoke to family and friends and they insisted I give him a chance!! I feel SOOOO stupid for not sticking to my guns.

There were moment he pulled back when he revealed his fears etc looking back he basically warned me about himself yet I was stupid enough to continue because his actions were doing all the talking. I'm just glad I didn't get too attached!!!

There is no need to feel stupid about this.   This is "dating."  You liked him and you gave it a fair chance.  That's fine.  

IMO your problem is that you were trying to gain some control that is impossible to gain.  Like, behaving in a certain way - including withholding sex, calling him out on his behaviors,  laying out increasingly high bars for your expectations - would actually change the guy.  That will never work with any guy in early stages of dating.  What you need to be doing is being present for what the guy actually does, and how you are feeling about it.  It's wiser to learn who they really are through than it is to try to get them to do and be what you want.

2 hours ago, rosean said:

I never intend to use it as a power move with a guy but in this case I  held back because I wanted him to show me he was capable of committing

Again this seems like you were trying to make him jump through hoops.  Next time just be present, be yourself, and observe.  If you're not ready to have sex, you're not ready.  On the flip side, you are taking a risk whenever you move forward with a relationship and trying really hard not to get hurt by enacting a lot of controls is not the way to protect yourself.   Players are very good at this scenario; they can understand your "hoops" and give you exactly what you want in order for them to get what they want.

I do think you did the right thing by holding back on intimacy - my issue is with your evident idea that you could get him to change by doing / not doing this or that.  Relationships are unlikely to work out when you go at them like that.  

You knew his track record, you also had some logistical difficulties because you were not able to date frequently due to his schedule.  Yet you chose to try it.  Not wrong.  But your self protection is not in sync with the risk factors that he came with.  Clearly you need to date men who are looking for marriage and who date / court in a way that clearly can lead to that if the compatibility and chemistry necessary are in place.  A guy who lives near you. 

This guy didn't do you wrong IMO.   He probably got warning signs of his own that you were setting him up for something he could not deliver and he did the right thing by terminating.  

 

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, rosean said:

This was around the time he first opened up about his fears. I asked him "would you get professional help?" 

Agree. This was your sign to walk away. If you think someone needs therapy to become the person you need them to be, it's better to acknowledge the incompatibilities than to suggest they change.

[basil67]

43 minutes ago, rosean said:

it's a reaction I'm having to things not working out and me trying to look for answers as to why and what happened and signs etc. I've accepted we're done and I'm not upset about that. I'm more upset I went against my gut feel early on. Knowing his lack of commitment to previous women raised alarm bells, and him telling me about all his fears was a sign for me to exit. 

So in that case, perhaps the blame lies with you for ignoring the alarm bells?     

Seriously though, there's no point in playing a blame game.

[Wiseman2]

47 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

This guy didn't do you wrong IMO.   He probably got warning signs of his own that you were setting him up for something he could not deliver and he did the right thing by terminating.  

I agree with this. It's important to remember that being single is not a pathology that needs therapy.  It's just not what you were looking for. Perhaps it's time to reflect and explore what made you pursue someone who didn't really have much of the criteria you were looking for.