Should I marry him when I can't stand his abusive sister-in-law?

[Sweetpokerface94]

Hi everyone, first time posting here. I am 28 and my fiancée is 36, we have been together 2 1/2 years and engaged for only a month. I get along really well with his family and he gets along with mine. But I’ve had some issues with his sister in law who I’ll name Lizzie. there has been A LOT of red flags from day one and manipulative drama that sometimes makes me want to leave the entire family and I’m not sure what to do. 

Back story: Lizzie (39 F) has been with my fiancées brother (40 M) , *Mike for 16 years now and they have 4 kids. only 2 are his. 1 kid she had at 16, the other she had from an affair. 
The family (especially the mother and my fiancées twin sister) isn’t fond of her because of Lizzie’s past and current behavior, especially having a child from cheating which Mike fully loves and supports still. 

The other problem is that 17 years ago she dated my fiancée for 4 months and left him for the brother. They squashed that drama a long time ago but the parents & sister are still bothered by it. 

She then proceeded to isolate, abuse, and cheat on the brother which resulted in 1 child not being his. 

Lizzie often threatens to leave him with the kids and get a restraining order if he doesn’t bend to her will and she controls his social media, bank accounts, texts, and he can’t go out on weekends with friends or family unless she goes too. And she uses the children as weapons with the parents. If they do/don’t do something she wants, she’ll ban them from seeing their grandkids for a long time. 

At this point, everyone has attempted to help him but they have accepted he will never leave. 

Long story short, I met my fiancées family and got along very well with them. Except for Lizzie and the brother who refused to meet me for the first 8 months. 

She constantly claimed they were too busy to meet and even cancelled a dinner when we were already waiting at the restaurant.

Yet, after cancelling on us I found out Lizzie called my fiancée Trevor that same week and talked his ear off over an hour claiming she wanted to “repair things with their family” and was asking his opinions on how to do it cuz she doesn’t get how they just accepted me. 

I didn’t meet them until 8 months later at a family event. 

There’s been a lot of petty things like that. Including an event where she had us change our party to 11am (or she threatened not to bring the kids ) and after we did that for her she never showed up claiming she never said she was going. 

Lets Fast forward to this year. 

My fiancée proposed a little over 4 weeks ago. 
(Because of the drama Lizzie has created, she and the brother arent actually married.)

After Lizzie found out we were engaged, she went on a rampage. And she threatened to leave Mike for another man and take the kids… again.
 

Then last week she showed up to my fiancées house to “vent” at 8pm, DRUNK, crying about how she was going to leave Mike not realizing I was in the other living room. 

Once I heard her crying, I had a bad feeling and walked into the living room so Lizzie could see me there. My fiancée was far away on the couch looking super uncomfortable and Lizzie was on the armchair trying to lean towards him.

When she saw me she completely stopped crying and sat straight up. She apologized and said she had no one else to talk to and then immediately left. 
we were both weirded out and astounded. 

At that point I finally told my fiancé everything I thought about her and everything I believe she’s doing. 

Lizzie is 40, [ ] and has 4 kids but she is still acting like the 22 year old who had a hold on both brothers 17 years ago. She came here to validate her self esteem hoping it would start something or ruin something. 

We had a long discussion and he agreed he wouldn’t ever allow her in the house without me there or the brother, especially unannounced. He knew what she was doing too and in fact shared stories of her making moves on friends boyfriends in the past when she was drunk and crying. 

Literally 2 days later, they are back together and they’re officially engaged. And planning their wedding at the same time we are doing ours. 
I’m so over it. Part of me just wants to leave the relationship and the other part wants to go to city hall and avoid any further potential drama.

I feel stupid even making this post and giving it more energy but I’d really appreciate any advice  on this ? 

Edited May 7, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
irrelevant

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Sweetpokerface94 said:

The other problem is that 17 years ago she dated my fiancée for 4 months. Then last week she showed up to my fiancées house to “vent” at 8pm, DRUNK, crying 

Your fiance needs better boundaries with her and his family in general.  You need to ignore her and her drama. Delete and block her from all your social media and messaging apps. 

When you live together, make sure you have a video alarm system installed. Your fiance is too involved in her personal drama.

Distance yourself from her and this drama. Avoid family events where she's present. Try not to gossip about her to the fiance or family. You don't have to like, entertain or judge her, all you have to do is accept that she's the brother's wife.

Just stay out of it and away from her. Continue to discuss appropriate boundaries with your fiance because he's the problem if he's letting her come over drunk to cry on his shoulder.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Wiseman2

[ShyViolet]

9 hours ago, Sweetpokerface94 said:

We had a long discussion and he agreed he wouldn’t ever allow her in the house without me there or the brother, especially unannounced.

This doesn't go far enough.  I would insist that all interaction or communication with her be cut off, period.  I would set a rule that you basically never see her, she never be invited to events, or you don't go to any events that she is at.  If your fiancé won't agree to this, end the relationship.  There's no way you should attach yourself to this crazy situation.

She clearly has serious mental health issues, and your fiancé's brother clearly must have some serious problems himself to allow this and be with someone like that.  This is all too close for comfort and you need to be really, really careful who you choose to attach yourself to.

[stillafool]

I think it's up to your fiance to create boundaries between him and his SIL.  He should not be talking to her on the phone or talking to her period.  I wouldn't have changed the time to meet to accomodate her either.  So what if she couldn't bring the kids at that time, don't come.  You've been here about this problem before and I see it hasn't changed.  No, I would not marry this man because he is still talking to her.

[MsJayne]

Having someone in your immediate circle, someone who clearly has mental health issues, so jealous of you should make you nervous.  You have every right to demand that your fiance cut her out of your lives, but it would be preferable if he made that decision himself because he owes you that loyalty. Lizzie's toxic, and the people I feel most sorry for are her children. Any woman who weaponises kids is an unfit mother. Trevor needs to confront her, in front of other family members, and tell her he doesn't want her bleating to him about her self-inflicted problems and not to come sneaking around when she thinks you're not home. Some people with mental health problems deserve compassion and understanding, but some of them are just creeps who deserve to be ostracised, and she sounds like one of those. If Trevor insists on keeping this scumbag in your lives, for me that would mean the end. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Far from being stupid, your note and concern shows smarts.

This woman is toxic. But ... she's not the problem that you need to be worried about.

The problem is that your fiancé and his family are utterly and dangerously incompetent at containing and protecting themselves from the sister in law. This is no minor failing. You would be marrying into this family and the evidence so far is that they are in denial, sloppy, lazy in baffled about what is going on. They need to get together, come up with some strategies, consult with lawyers and psychologists or just some reading--and figure out how to contain and set boundaries against this woman.

This is a good test for you fiance. I would NOT marry him until he learns to set firmer boundaries. This whole clueless of allowing her to threaten and dictate things as she is--his family is as much the problem as she is. 

You concerns are smart--if anything you are underestimating the chaos of this family. And it's the family--not her--that is the problem. Most families have odd members--but they can contain and limit the poison spread by that by member. Not your fiancé’s family. 

Setting boundaries is key to a good marriage. Your fiance gonna be this sloppy and incompetent if another woman shows interest in him?

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[BaileyB]

I would marry the man and cut all contact with the brother and sister-in-law. It’s hard, because your fiancé loves his brother and his parents love their son/the grandchildren… but, this kind of thing should not be tolerated in a family. There is no middle ground to be found here - 

I have a friend who hasn’t seen her brother for 20 years (because he is an abusive brother and delinquent father). He still sees his parents, my friend sees his ex-wife and his children, my friend sees her parents - but my friend, her brother, and her parents do not coexist. It’s sad, but it was necessary. 

Edited May 7, 2023 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

I would refuse to be around her and expect that your finacé cut contact with her. 

She is a nightmare, yes. But the family enables it too much. Your fiancé should not have taken her call to dicuss repairing things with the family. He should have told her to leave the moment she showed up drunk at his doorstep. You should never have changed the time of a party to accommodate her. 

There are poor boundaries in this family. I would need to see major improvements there before I could proceed with a wedding. 

[ShyViolet]

13 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I would marry the man and cut all contact with the brother and sister-in-law. It’s hard, because your fiancé loves his brother and his parents love their son/the grandchildren… but, this kind of thing should not be tolerated in a family. There is no middle ground to be found here - 

Agreed but this is only possible if the fiancé is 100% on board with this.  It's unclear if he has the appropriate boundaries himself or if he really gets it.  If he is not on the same page about this, then the marriage would be a disaster.

[Sweetpokerface94]

[ ] 

In my previous post, I wrote about enormous boundary issues with my fiancées SIL and abusive behaviors. I followed the advice of some commenters and told my fiancée we needed to establish firm boundaries with her. And he practiced that. 

he stopped taking her calls completely and stopped responding to her messages wanting to vent. 

Here is where it gets funny. Last week, the SIL suddenly started asking my fiancée to babysit her kids so she can run errands — something she’s never, ever asked before. She’s a housewife, the brother only works 3 days a week, and all 4 kids are in elementary school so it doesn’t make any sense. In fact, she won’t even let the MIL babysit (or see the kids) as she often weaponizes then to get what she wants from the MIL (see previous post).

so why all of a sudden does she need my fiancée to go to their house to babysit?

I told my fiancée I wasn’t comfortable because, again; what she pulled last time. He did look a little uncomfortable because he never gets to see his nieces and nephews either because she won’t allow their family over ever. I said then we can all go to the park together or he can go with his brother to hang with them.
The request shouldn’t come from her just 2 1/2 weeks after we think she was trying to make a move on him. It’s shady as hell. 

cut to what happened yesterday. 

My fiancée had already asked his brother to be the best man to our wedding a few days ago. He agreed and was excited to do it. They were supposed to meet for lunch on Saturday. The SIL showed up in his place instead. apparently she took the brothers phone and acted like he was coming when it was actually her lol. 

She told my fiancée his brother could not be the best man because he’ll be too busy with their own wedding and they don’t think they’ll even join ours (fine by me of course) as guests. 

My fiancée said she was smirking the entire time and she told him if they had more help with their own planning and babysit and doing whatever she asked, then maaaybe the brother could be involved.

My fiancée came home totally heartbroken and upset because he wants his brother involved.
I told him I was done. She’s weaponizing the brother now. He can only be involved if whenever she says JUMP my fiancée has to respond HOW HIGH and WHAT TIME?

Shes done it for years to the entire family and if he bends to her will I will break off the engagement. This is where boundaries need to be firm. 

My fiancée said he knew that but he’s still in a lot of pain. I think he feels she will truly change if he continues doing what she asks. But I told him he already lost his brother once he allowed the SIL to take full control of his life and his family. Bending to her will does nothing but create a monster of her and doormats out of them. 
Plus he only sees the guy 1x a year with the SIL prior approval and required attendance anyway. How much better will things really get? 

I mean am I crazy here?
I honestly don’t think he will ever completely kick them out of his life due to his love for his brother. But I’m at the point where I want nothing to do with that entire family. 
I just don’t know how my fiancée will handle it…

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
merged thread

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, Sweetpokerface94 said:

He stopped taking her calls completely and stopped responding to her messages wanting to vent. 

Hopefully you're getting premarital counseling. Your fiance is going to have to establish boundaries with his family. Unfortunately it doesn't seem much better.

[BaileyB]

I posted but it was lost when the thread was merged. Let’s just say, like a child who is used to getting her way, she is simply employing a different strategy to manipulate your fiancé. Her behavior is going to get worse before it gets better - if it ever gets better. She wants to know how serious he is about this new boundary. She has obviously asked him to come over and babysit because it’s hard to bully and manipulate when he stops taking her calls…

1 hour ago, Sweetpokerface94 said:

I honestly don’t think he will ever completely kick them out of his life due to his love for his brother.

It is possible for the brothers to have a relationship that does not include the sister-in-law. However, to do so would require the two of them to tell her to stay in her lane and that sounds like a difficult ask from what you’ve described…

I too hope you are getting some premarital counselling. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by BaileyB

[basil67]

It's wrong to marry someone when you already know that you don't want anything to do with their family.  Especially as he's not ready to walk away from his brother and parents.   What happens if you have children?  At the very least, your husband is going to want his parents to be involved in grandparenting and you should be part of that. 

The only reasonable thing I can think of is for your husband, his brother and parents to sit down for a private (without you or SIL) family talk about the SILs impact on the family and how best to manage it.

[Lotsgoingon]

But I’m at the point where I want nothing to do with that entire family.

Hold on, I thought the above thought was the starting point. The issue is your fiancé, not you. The fiance's dealings with his nutty family is the problem. Even if you distance yourself, again your fiancé is showing really bad boundaries. Look, weak boundaries can destroy relationships. They can destroy a marriage. When a partner is absent (like you because he's out doing dumb stuff with a toxic person he should say no to--the other partner rages. That's devastating to a marriage. It’s one thing if a partner is out pursuing a home. It’s totally different when a spouse is out doing something dumb.

I highly suggest you call the marriage off--I know that's hard to hear. I realize it’s brutal. But your bf has to come up with some sanity here. This chaos with the SIL is not a one off. It will continue. There is no "convincing" bf of the foolishness of his engagement. This is an emotional issue, a maturity issue. He has to make a deep shift. Boundary setting requires a backbone and if you don't naturally have that backbone, you have to literally practice. There is no "convincing."

I guarantee the craziness with the SIL and brother will continue AND new bad boundary situations will appear.

You call off the wedding and that MIGHT kick him into gear. Most likely you will have to stand guard, because he's going to b.s. you and minimize and all of that. Desire to see the nephews is not reason to engage this woman. Sorry, it isn't.

And why is brother who is partnered with this toxic woman a priority in the marriage? That's preposterous, ridiculous. Does your bf have some high-functioning friends? Why isn't he making one of them his best man? Now, yes, inviting the brother to be BM is a kind gesture--except in this family that tolerates and goes deaf and blind over dysfunction, it's not a healthy move.

And forget his suffering. His suffering is based on incompetent, inept ability to set boundaries and make good decisions. That's on him! For someone's suffering to be sympathetic, it has to be based on some reasonable attempt at solving a problem. Your bf wouldn't be able to touch a solution if it slapped him on his back. He's lost on this issue. Lost and overly attached to a dysfunctional family. 

What you see now is what you’re going to get after you’re married. That’s the rule.  

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[stillafool]

I agree with others that the marriage isn't going to work.  No you should not marry this guy.

[JTSW]

Your fiancé needs to continue with not answering her calls.

At the end of the day, if the brother just bends to her will at all costs then there isn't anything anyone can do about it. 

Of course its hard and hurts your fiancé but the brother needs to wake up to her behaviour on his own. 

Call her bluff, act unbothered by what she says and continue your wedding plans without the brother.

NODODY bend to her will.

She is trying to cause issues for your wedding but don't let her.

Have a beautiful happy day and let her see that her meddling doesn't change anything.

She will hate that lol

[BettyDraper]

I wonder if Lizzie feels some remorse about leaving your fiance for his brother. This could be why she is butting into your life with him so much. 

Your fiance allows this which tells me that he has unfinished business with her and he has awful boundaries. 

Sometimes older men pick much younger women because they are easier to manipulate. I wonder if that is the case with your fiance given his antics. 

[Ageless Wisdom23]

In many Families, There is often some dysfunction and a bahhhha black sheep or those who have skeletons in the closet.  This one outdoes any of them.  Don't let her get you down.  Pity her instead.  She appears to be mentally unbalanced and may have a drinking problem.  Let her plan(Doing it on purpose)her wedding on That day and you and your fiance plan it differently if need be.  She is one of these loud mouth troublemakers who loves the Attention Getting in the 😏family.  They are the ones most talked about around the Sunday table.  Be bigger than her.  Look at what the rest of the family has had to endure.  Don't let this one win.  She is probably hoping you will bail and she can again be the center of attention.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Ageless Wisdom23

[IrinaM]

Something is majorly off with your boyfriend though. When men have chaotic women in their orbit, it's because they thrive on drama.

And I mean his whole "coming home in tears" routine would make me lose respect for him. It's pathetic. He could easily end all this drama - if he wanted to.

[Grumpy Bob]

Sadly, I'm not sure there's even a question here anymore?  Your ex-fiancé has made his choice.  He wants to stay involved in his brother's life, and that means that he's keeping the toxic [woman] in his.

He's a sap, but that much was already obvious.  His brother is obviously the same, and possibly the rest of the family.

Take it from somebody with a long history of toxic in-laws.  They don't go away, and their poison simply spreads.

Ultimately, you have to analyse the question:  "What has Changed?"  This isn't some new revelation.  This toxic [woman] has been screwing with the family for 17 years, and they have enabled her.  Your ex-fiancé has known what she is like for 17 years, and done NOTHING to remove her from his life.  Even if we hoped your entrance into his life would somehow miraculously snap him around, that obviously hasn't happened.

Of course he will agree with you when you state the need for boundaries.  He'll agree to anything won't he?  But he won't back it up.

Look it's up to you if you still want to marry the guy.  Presumably he's very sweet and affable, and will agree with whatever you say.  And maybe that will make you happy.  Just understand that at 36 he is NEVER going to grow a backbone.  He will continue trying to appease you, the [woman], his brother, his mother, and anyone else that bullies him.

Edited May 25, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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