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Woman I've gone out with multiple times 'doesn't see the point' of kissing or any physical contact unless we're exclusive

max3732

By max3732
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max3732 Established Member

max3732

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Is this common? At the end of the 1st and various times through dates 2-3 I initiated more physical contact (touching her arm, examining her hand, etc) and tried kissing her with the cheek again. On date 4 when I got the cheek I asked her and she said she didn't see the point unless we're exclusive and very serious. 

I find it rather frustrating that she never reciprocates with any kind of touch, let alone a kiss. Not even a peck. We've done all kinds of activities/meals and I've paid for everything. The only thing is she's driving 45 minutes most times and I've only driven the 45 minutes to see her once.

We're spending hours together so I'd imagine she's interested, right? I like her, but am not sure about her not wanting to do any kind of touch unless we're exclusive and I'm not sure if I want to give up on any other prospects as I'm not even sure if she's going to stay in my area or move to another country (she's here for a degree). 

Do I really have to try to articulate the point? Isn't it kind of natural? 

Gaeta Established Member

Gaeta

Posted
Posted

In my opinion this will be a  total waste of your time.

Don't date women that are on the opposite end of the spectrum. For all you know she'll end up hating sex on your honeymoon night. 

Stick to women with same dating views as you.

  • Like 4
Wiseman2 Established Member

Wiseman2

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, max3732 said:

 I asked her and she said she didn't see the point unless we're exclusive and very serious. 

 I'm not sure if I want to give up on any other prospects 

Unfortunately you both seem to have a "what's the point?" feeling about this.  That's ok. Since you're not exclusive you both can date others who are more on the same page.

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stillafool Established Member

stillafool

Posted
Posted

You two aren't compatible.  Most people don't become exclusive without at least kissing first.  She just seems to be determined to rush to get a relationship.  She should be champing at the bit to kiss you by now.  She's not feeling it.  Date someone else.

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basil67 Established Member

basil67

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Posted

I agree that this is unusual.  However, it's also unusual that you've posed this question without comment on how much you like her.  If you feel so-so about her, then the answer is simple: let her go.  But what if she's otherwise great company and someone who you could potentially imagine spending your life with?    If so, perhaps continue dating her for a while and see if there's enough connection to consider being serious about her.  You will also want to find out more about whether or not she's planning on moving away - it's OK to ask the question bluntly.  

If you think it's worth waiting for, then give it a try.  However, if after being serious and exclusive, she won't even kiss, then end it.  

I feel that as women are hard to for you to connect with, you may have to consider things which you wouldn't otherwise have done in the perfect world.  And honestly, how many women are going to do more than half the driving???  

 

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Ami1uwant Established Member

Ami1uwant

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Posted

I’m not expecting a kiss on date 1.  If it doesn’t happen unless we are on date 3 I’m dontpe.

her behavior is not normal.

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BaileyB Established Member

BaileyB

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Posted
6 hours ago, stillafool said:

Most people don't become exclusive without at least kissing first. 

True, but how many dates is it going to take you OP to decide that you want to date this woman exclusively? I would be rather Luke-warm too if I wanted to find a relationship and it wasn’t moving toward exclusivity after several dates… just something to think about.

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basil67 Established Member

basil67

Posted
Posted (edited)

Max, I just realised that you went to a singles event very recently.  Now I’m the kind of person who only dated one person at a time, and if I was dating now, I would also keep the brakes on firmly if I had any suspicion that they were still open to meeting others.  And yes, I would ask if they were.  So while I find her words odd, I do understand her actions.  
 

Is it really that hard to just focus on one person at a time and make a decision as to whether you want to keep seeing them relatively quickly?  I’m not taking about marriage here, but just to focus on one person till you no longer want to

Edited by basil67
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Wiseman2 Established Member

Wiseman2

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Posted
9 hours ago, max3732 said:

 We've done all kinds of activities/meals and I've paid for everything. The only thing is she's driving 45 minutes most times and I've only driven the 45 minutes to see her once

All you can do is step back and not wine and dine this much.

Unfortunately your description comes across as somewhat transactional. For example x amount of wining and dining should equal y amount of physical contact.

She either has a very conservative mindset or simply isn't that into it.

 

  • Like 2
ExpatInItaly Established Member

ExpatInItaly

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You and she are not compatible. 

I would say it's not common for an adult to not want any sort of physical contact unless your're in an exclusive relationship, but that's her prerogative. Since it doesn't feel good to you, it's time to call this off. 

And given that you were at a singles event very recently, it's clear you're not really that into this woman, anyway. 

Gaeta Established Member

Gaeta

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, max3732 said:

I'm not even sure if she's going to stay in my area or move to another country (she's here for a degree). 

So you 2 are from different cultures? It's probably why she's very conservative. 

I'm curious why you went on 4 dates knowing she might move back to her country?

Els Established Member

Els

Posted
Posted

I mean, it's fairly simple - she wants to only have physical intimacy in a serious relationship, and you don't really want a serious relationship with her. That's the very definition of incompatibility.

I agree with the others who pointed out that you were at a singles event recently. That, alongside the things you've said here, have indicated that you don't want an exclusive relationship with her - and that is the case regardless of whether she is having physical touch with you or not. So why string her along? Just stop seeing her.

  • Like 3
smackie9 Established Member

smackie9

Posted
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There is no point in complaining about it. She has very different values/expectations from yours so your answer is to stop seeing her. This is why we date...to see what they are like, their expectations, etc. It's pretty obvious you two are not a match.

  • Like 1
Ami1uwant Established Member

Ami1uwant

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

All you can do is step back and not wine and dine this much.

Unfortunately your description comes across as somewhat transactional. For example x amount of wining and dining should equal y amount of physical contact.

She either has a very conservative mindset or simply isn't that into it.

 

It’s a ROI ( return on investment).  It’s why prostitution is the more economical decision if it’s going to take you 5+ dates to just have sex. 

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max3732 Established Member

max3732

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Posted
18 hours ago, basil67 said:

I agree that this is unusual.  However, it's also unusual that you've posed this question without comment on how much you like her.  If you feel so-so about her, then the answer is simple: let her go.  But what if she's otherwise great company and someone who you could potentially imagine spending your life with?    If so, perhaps continue dating her for a while and see if there's enough connection to consider being serious about her.  You will also want to find out more about whether or not she's planning on moving away - it's OK to ask the question bluntly.  

If you think it's worth waiting for, then give it a try.  However, if after being serious and exclusive, she won't even kiss, then end it.  

I feel that as women are hard to for you to connect with, you may have to consider things which you wouldn't otherwise have done in the perfect world.  And honestly, how many women are going to do more than half the driving???  

 

Well I like her quite a bit. We have a lot of similar hobbies, have the same values and always end up spending a lot of time together and have a lot of fun. She's also physically attractive. Somewhat of a different look than I normally go for, but I still think she's really cute. So if things go well at this point I think I could spend my life with her if she is what she's shown me so far.

I would hope that after being serious and exclusive she'd be ok with kissing. Even more than kissing I'd like to be able to hold her hand or hold her and it's frustrating so far not being able to do that.

17 hours ago, basil67 said:

Max, I just realised that you went to a singles event very recently.  Now I’m the kind of person who only dated one person at a time, and if I was dating now, I would also keep the brakes on firmly if I had any suspicion that they were still open to meeting others.  And yes, I would ask if they were.  So while I find her words odd, I do understand her actions.  
 

Is it really that hard to just focus on one person at a time and make a decision as to whether you want to keep seeing them relatively quickly?  I’m not taking about marriage here, but just to focus on one person till you no longer want to

Once we have the conversation about exclusivity I wouldn't go to any singles events or continue with OLD. but I've been burned so many times with women I've met online I don't want to limit myself until the last moment. 

 

6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

So you 2 are from different cultures? It's probably why she's very conservative. 

I'm curious why you went on 4 dates knowing she might move back to her country?

I'm in the US and she's from a European country, but has a greater grasp of US culture than most American women I meet. I asked her on the 1st date about if she'll move back and she said if she meets the right guy she might stay, but doesn't know yet. She also said she dated a few guys and then stopped seeing them because she moved, so that's always an issue. That's also why I'm concerned about being exclusive with her too soon. 

Gaeta Established Member

Gaeta

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Posted
2 hours ago, max3732 said:

Well I like her quite a bit. We have a lot of similar hobbies, have the same values and always end up spending a lot of time together and have a lot of fun. She's also physically attractive. Somewhat of a different look than I normally go for, but I still think she's really cute.

So what more do you need to date her only? Exclusivity isn't marriage and it doesn't even mean you'll introduce her to your mom. Also if after of a couple of months of exclusivity she's not what you're looking for you end it.

There is little you can learn about a person by multi dating. At some point you've got to concentrate on one personne.

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basil67 Established Member

basil67

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Posted
2 hours ago, max3732 said:

Well I like her quite a bit. We have a lot of similar hobbies, have the same values and always end up spending a lot of time together and have a lot of fun. She's also physically attractive. Somewhat of a different look than I normally go for, but I still think she's really cute. So if things go well at this point I think I could spend my life with her if she is what she's shown me so far.

I would hope that after being serious and exclusive she'd be ok with kissing. Even more than kissing I'd like to be able to hold her hand or hold her and it's frustrating so far not being able to do that.

That you are still dating others sends her the message that you still think there's better to be had.   Thing is though, you won't find out if she's worth your effort unless you give it a proper shot.  

Since the time I've been posting here, this sounds like the first woman who may be really interested in you.  If you really like her, why not stop looking for others?  Let her know that you're feeling really good about her and that you have turned off your dating apps.   As @Gaeta says, being exclusive doesn't mean long term commitment or marriage - it just means dating her to the exclusion of all others while you see if the relationship can progress.    And yes, if it doesn't work out, you end it and at worst you've lost a handful of months.  That's a drop in the ocean!

I almost feel like you're self sabotaging here. 

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BaileyB Established Member

BaileyB

Posted
Posted (edited)

No, exclusivity is not marriage. It does not require any commitment - only that you will not see others while you are continuing to get to know this woman. If it doesn’t work out, at worst you have lost a little time… but, you’ve gained experience. You go back to dating and find someone else.

At some point, you will need to make a decision to date exclusively and see where things go… Very few women are going to want to do that if you are also dating others after a certain point. 

Edited by BaileyB
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Els Established Member

Els

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Posted
8 hours ago, max3732 said:

So if things go well at this point I think I could spend my life with her if she is what she's shown me so far.

 

8 hours ago, max3732 said:

I've been burned so many times with women I've met online I don't want to limit myself until the last moment. 

This is so bizarre to me. It's WAY too early to be thinking you could spend your life with her (!?!?!?), but most definitely NOT too early to stop going to singles events and trying to date other women! How on earth are both of these sentences even in the same post?

As others have said, exclusivity isn't marriage. You're not going to lose your house or your savings or anything like that if things go south. Have you tried asking yourself why exactly you feel the need to squeeze in as much multidating as you possibly can, even when you have a person that you seem to like? Do you ACTUALLY want a LTR, ever, or do you just want to casually date? There's nothing wrong with the latter, but you need to be honest with yourself and with the people you're dating.

 

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Els Established Member

Els

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Posted
12 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

It’s a ROI ( return on investment).  It’s why prostitution is the more economical decision if it’s going to take you 5+ dates to just have sex. 

If anyone feels this way about sex and relationships, they should 100% stick to prostitutes and save everyone else the trouble.

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Wiseman2 Established Member

Wiseman2

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Posted
10 hours ago, max3732 said:

Well I like her quite a bit. We have a lot of similar hobbies, have the same values and always end up spending a lot of time together and have a lot of fun. She's also physically attractive. 

I've been burned so many times with women I've met online I don't want to limit myself until the last moment. 

This is what casual dating is all about. You're having fun getting to know each other. Keep in mind everyone has their dating safeguards. You don't want to be strung along to end up in the friendzone and she doesn't want to get physical with every player who comes along. 

If you enjoy her company you can keep seeing her. It seems like there's some cultural differences and language barriers as far as the interpretation of "serious and exclusive".   She may believe getting to know you better is "dating" but exchanging saliva with everyone she goes out with isn't what see does. 

Patience may be an asset right now, but she seems to have one foot out the door already as far as going back to her country.  So this doesn't seem to have any long term potential nor casual sex potential. 

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Blind-Sided Established Member

Blind-Sided

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3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is what casual dating is all about. You're having fun getting to know each other. Keep in mind everyone has their dating safeguards. You don't want to be strung along to end up in the friendzone and she doesn't want to get physical with every player who comes along. 

@Wiseman2 is right.    The "Hook up" culture is so heavy right now... I'm guessing this girl is protecting herself. If she gives no physical contact on the first few dates... it will weed out the guys who are only looking for sex.  So... if that's the goal.... just move on.   If you are looking for something more... and you think she is cute, and could see a possible future with her... then dump the apps, and tell her you would like to be exclusive. (Simple)   As other's have said... multi dating isn't good because you will start to (What I like to call) micro-comparing. This is where one person will do something slightly better, and then you want the person who you really like to adopt that behavior.  AND... if they don't... then you look down on that person who was probably a good match for you. Not to mention... you spread yourself out and you may just burn out and not really want to focus on a relationship, even though you think you are. 

As said before... being exclusive doesn't mean anything that would make it permanent.  You made a comment about "Being burned" and that's why you don't want to give up the apps.  But I'm guessing she has been burned too.

So.... dump the apps, and the meet-up events... tell her she is right, and you want to be exclusive, and give it a few more dates, and see if she comes around. 

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max3732 Established Member

max3732

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13 hours ago, basil67 said:

That you are still dating others sends her the message that you still think there's better to be had.   Thing is though, you won't find out if she's worth your effort unless you give it a proper shot.  

Since the time I've been posting here, this sounds like the first woman who may be really interested in you.  If you really like her, why not stop looking for others?  Let her know that you're feeling really good about her and that you have turned off your dating apps.   As @Gaeta says, being exclusive doesn't mean long term commitment or marriage - it just means dating her to the exclusion of all others while you see if the relationship can progress.    And yes, if it doesn't work out, you end it and at worst you've lost a handful of months.  That's a drop in the ocean!

I almost feel like you're self sabotaging here. 

Well it's not so much "better things", but rather protecting myself in case there's a major problem with her I didn't know about or she leaves. After giving it a lot of thought and after our last date I was ready to have that conversation with her about being exclusive and actually logged into the dating apps to see how to suspend them. 

Then I get a text from her saying she talked to her family after finishing school and is "thinking of heading back to her country" next month. That her visa is valid until the end of the year, but she's not sure if she wants to come back yet and that if I want to visit her there she'd love to introduce me to her family and friends. Also wanted to know if I want to meet to discuss in person.

So now I don't know to do. Seems like she's intent to go back so I'd have to commit to marriage now to stop her? That's not something I'm comfortable with yet. We've only gone out a handful of times.

 

7 hours ago, Els said:

 

This is so bizarre to me. It's WAY too early to be thinking you could spend your life with her (!?!?!?), but most definitely NOT too early to stop going to singles events and trying to date other women! How on earth are both of these sentences even in the same post?

As others have said, exclusivity isn't marriage. You're not going to lose your house or your savings or anything like that if things go south. Have you tried asking yourself why exactly you feel the need to squeeze in as much multidating as you possibly can, even when you have a person that you seem to like? Do you ACTUALLY want a LTR, ever, or do you just want to casually date? There's nothing wrong with the latter, but you need to be honest with yourself and with the people you're dating.

 

See my answer above why I'm reluctant to commit to dating 1 person too soon. I do want a LTR and to find the right person to marry. 

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is what casual dating is all about. You're having fun getting to know each other. Keep in mind everyone has their dating safeguards. You don't want to be strung along to end up in the friendzone and she doesn't want to get physical with every player who comes along. 

If you enjoy her company you can keep seeing her. It seems like there's some cultural differences and language barriers as far as the interpretation of "serious and exclusive".   She may believe getting to know you better is "dating" but exchanging saliva with everyone she goes out with isn't what see does. 

Patience may be an asset right now, but she seems to have one foot out the door already as far as going back to her country.  So this doesn't seem to have any long term potential nor casual sex potential. 

For me I want to have fun getting to know someone and see if she's right to have an exclusive, LTR with and marry and have kids with. 

2 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

@Wiseman2 is right.    The "Hook up" culture is so heavy right now... I'm guessing this girl is protecting herself. If she gives no physical contact on the first few dates... it will weed out the guys who are only looking for sex.  So... if that's the goal.... just move on.   If you are looking for something more... and you think she is cute, and could see a possible future with her... then dump the apps, and tell her you would like to be exclusive. (Simple)   As other's have said... multi dating isn't good because you will start to (What I like to call) micro-comparing. This is where one person will do something slightly better, and then you want the person who you really like to adopt that behavior.  AND... if they don't... then you look down on that person who was probably a good match for you. Not to mention... you spread yourself out and you may just burn out and not really want to focus on a relationship, even though you think you are. 

As said before... being exclusive doesn't mean anything that would make it permanent.  You made a comment about "Being burned" and that's why you don't want to give up the apps.  But I'm guessing she has been burned too.

So.... dump the apps, and the meet-up events... tell her she is right, and you want to be exclusive, and give it a few more dates, and see if she comes around. 

What's happened before is similar to what seems to have happened here. I met someone from another state who moved here and we went out a few times and she did kiss and hold hands and I thought things were going well enough that I drove over 2 hours to meet her. Then she says she'd like to get together again, but she ended up moving back to the original state.

There was another time I dated someone from Europe who was working here and her visa expired.

Then there are all the other ones who after 2 or even 4 dates just stop responding for no reason. 

Just before this one I had been messaging someone for about a month while I was traveling and then she was traveling. She gave me her # before I asked and sent me a picture of her and said she was looking forward to meeting the next week. I messaged her back with some places close to her and haven't heard back.

So I want to be careful she's not going to move/flake on me before I give up talking to other women even if I really like her. Especially in a case like this where I knew her leaving was a possibility from the beginning.

I'm just confused and frustrated what to do now 

Els Established Member

Els

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, max3732 said:

So I want to be careful she's not going to move/flake on me before I give up talking to other women

How much are you REALLY giving up, though? So you have to stop going to singles events for a bit (which you weren't even getting many bites from anyway)? What's the problem?

There is a level of "protecting yourself" that is reasonable, and a level that is unreasonable. Not wanting to marry her yet is 100% reasonable. But being so intent on "protecting yourself" that you don't even want to give up looking for other dates temporarily in order to better get to know a person that you like exclusively, is completely unreasonable IMO. I mean, so what if you stop talking to other women for a month and date her exclusively, then she decides to leave? Hooray, you had a relationship for a month, like many other people do... is that so much worse than being single that entire time?

Either you don't actually like her as much as you say you do, or there's a paranoia/anxiety issue here that you should look into working on. Because otherwise exclusivity would be a no-brainer, frankly. If I had been on 4 dates with someone and he was still multi-dating, I'd correctly assume that he wasn't interested, and I'd move on.

Edited by Els
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Blind-Sided Established Member

Blind-Sided

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7 minutes ago, max3732 said:

1) I get a text from her saying she talked to her family after finishing school and is "thinking of heading back to her country" next month. That her visa is valid until the end of the year, but she's not sure if she wants to come back yet and that if I want to visit her there she'd love to introduce me to her family and friends. Also wanted to know if I want to meet to discuss in person.

2) For me I want to have fun getting to know someone and see if she's right to have an exclusive, LTR with and marry and have kids with. 

3) So I want to be careful she's not going to move/flake on me before I give up talking to other women even if I really like her. Especially in a case like this where I knew her leaving was a possibility from the beginning.

I'm just confused and frustrated what to do now 

1) To me... she's leaving the door open, and saying she wants you too meet her family.  She's looking for a commitment to only date her for a while.... not a marriage proposal.  AND.. she wants to meet face to face to talk about it.  Perhaps if you tell her you want to only date her... she will stay here. Who knows?

2) Sure... we all want to have fun... but that fun doesn't mean being physical.  When I met my (now ex) wife... I knew she was a "Good Girl" and I wasn't going to be having sex with her for a while. I was in collage, and there was plenty of girls I could have gotten some physical satisfaction with... but I was at a stage where I wanted to look for a wife... and that meant less parties, and going out with random girls. And that wasn't easy.  I had tons of friends... I was a campus DJ so I was at every event... and there was a saying on campus that "Everyone loves (my name)".  

3) Sometimes you have to take that chance to find the one.  If you like her, and she wants a VERY BASIC commitment... then give it to her. 

Don't be confused. If you like her and see a possible future, then have the talk with her NOW.  Let he know you will not multi-date, assuming she is staying around for you to explore the possibility of a LTR. If you are not wiling to move to where she is from... let her know that up front too.   If it doesn't work out in a couple months... then go back to the apps and meet-up groups.   It's really not rocket science.  This all comes back to what I said before where you need to have some patience.  The only relationships that move fast are hook-ups. 

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