Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Thanks OldEurope. Your name stands out because I remember someone said they thought our stories had some things in common (way back when MM and I were reading this forum together). However, I remember looking at your situation and thinking that there wasn't much about your MM that made me think of my MM or his situation. Your MM's W, for example, was told of the situation right from the first, and she wasn't so interested in continuing with him. My MM is very concerned to keep his W in the dark for as long as he can, just so he can keep reading his little girl bedside stories, pretending all is 'as it was', and contunuing to pretend his M is OK to the outside world. Now, I take your point, that there are some people here who aren't interested in engaging in catfights. BUT I still want to be able to vent about my own situation without listening to the same-old-same-old. And I think even you are very concerned with the 'sort it out now, or forget him' approach. So... basically, if I told my story again, I think I'd just hear the same old 'ditch him' advice that I did at the beginning. And that (rather than any idea that I am in a perfect situation) is what is preventing me from posting an update on my story. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Bad bad thread hijackers! it is just confusing to somebody who is in love and being heavily encouraged by the object of their affections to listen to all these attacks Nobody is 'attacking' her. People are using harsher tones as time goes on because she's not hearing anything said in nicer terms. i think having the strength to walk away comes with feeling that theres enough love around you that you dont need his "love", or finding the strength within. Yes, and so people are giving her reasons to find her own strength - that what she's doing will hurt people and so she should reject that course of action; that this relationship will only diminish her; that he's not her 'one and only' nor is he anything like 'the perfect man'. These aren't attacks - they are objective truth and, yes, being forced to look at truth can be painful but that doesn't mean it's an 'attack'. I personally see mandy as wilfully living in a little pink cloud of fantasy and it's going to burst and drop her, crushed, on the ground. I'd rather have her confront the cold, hard, ugly truth of what she's doing and its probable consequences now than that she get crushed much more painfully later. Yes, some people learn and get over their mistakes - but others, as we see here, are often crippled for years because of them. I think, newbby, you're taking all these things too personally because of your own situation. We're not addressing you in this case. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sami, I honestly can't remember your situation, if you're still with your MM or on NC. I think though, and this applies to any OW or OM - If the person you're with is the right one for you and you are for him/her (Soulmate kinda deal) don't you think they would do ALL possible to BE with you? I don't know...The heart chooses who it falls inlove with but it's the mind that makes the final choice.. Well, no. To be honest, no. I don't think I would appreciate MM if he could just walk out on his kids and say it didn't matter. I think that there are some loves that override all others. And wanting to be with, and to make the best decisions for your children, are some of the most important decisions any person can make. Now I don't know if he's making the RIGHT decision for them, but I am sure that he's trying to do the best he can... or going on what he feels for his kids. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. I think he's being honest. But whatever the facts of that are, "don't you think they would do ALL possible to BE with you"... no, I don't. I understand that when you become a parent, then being a parent is something that's incredibly important. And sometimes you might want to put aside all other considerations in order to fulfil that role. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Then what exactly IS the point of being with a MM and falling for him? I guess that is something I just don't understand... Parents GIVE up things when they have kids...They become less selfish and give more. Certain things in life slip to the back burner and the kids come first... With that being said, the MM still puts his children first (who would want to be with a man who didn't??) and at the same time, because of that the OW suffers, even though she knows he's doing the right thing for his kids. Do you get what I'm saying??? I don't understand then how one could settle for a life of sharing and knowing you (not you particularly) will be second in most cases. Just sucks and in some way each of you are strong to stay and put up with that...Or just not seeing that each of you are SO WORTHY of falling inlove with a man who isn't married. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 WWIU, this is what really is the thing I'm wondering at the moment... Yeah, his children come first (well, actually, his desire to be with them in the way that suits him). But actually, how different would that be if he were D..? They are still going to be important to him. He will still want to do all he can to do (whatever it is...and this is something I want to talk to him/people here about) whatever it is to make their childhood OK and bring them up to be adults with OK and not-harmed minds.... I have no children. Additionally, even if I had, I have no right to inflict to MY views on bringing up children on him... so what do I do..? Would it harm them more to be the C of D..? Or to be the C of parents who don't get on..? THIS is the only, the one, thing between us, and I just have no idea how to negotiate or deal with this situation. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 outcast, i wasnt talking about discouragement, pointing out reality or even harsh tones, i was talking about those people saying she is just trying to get attention etc. i KNOW that i am being arguementative today. i am not taking anything personally about any mm situation though, i really am not. i'm not even the ow anymore, and i have bigger fish to fry. maybe i am using these things to work out some other anger, just being a general pain in the a$$ perhaps. sorry everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Is he still at home with his wife? Or are they separated? Kids can adjust and honestly, it's better to have happy kids in a happier environment, two different places rather than be in one place where mommy and daddy aren't really "together." Kids are not stupid, they DO pick up on stress around them and as they get older, they snoop, listen in on conversations and pick up on what's going on around them. Kids learn HOW to be in relationships by what they're folks show them at home. Studies have shown this, but it's also common knowledge. If two parents fight and scream, don't sit and talk things out - The kids will learn it's the norm. and OK to be like that. Parents too, can only do so much parenting then it's up to the child/teen him/herself to put to use what they learned at home and be independant etc... Seems like you are in that boat now? Or near that situation? Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 WWIU, yes, what you're saying is what I believe too... I remember snooping... I learnt a lot about sex, and about relationships from observing and snooping on my parents, and how they spoke to each other, and what my mother shared with me about how unhappy she was, and how she suspected my Dad of having an A. And I just don't know if MM's attitude stems from innocence, ignorance, or blotting out the truth about growing up from his own life, or his expectations of his own children's experience of life. I just don't know. And I don't know if anyone else can know... because he won't post here... Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Is he still at home with his wife? Or are they separated? He works away during the week, sees his W and C at weekends. He has no intention of separating or divorcing at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I have no children. Additionally, even if I had, I have no right to inflict to MY views on bringing up children on him... so what do I do..? Would it harm them more to be the C of D..? Or to be the C of parents who don't get on..? THIS is the only, the one, thing between us, and I just have no idea how to negotiate or deal with this situation. sami, this question is not even relevant in many ways, as you just pointed out yourself. even if you had the answer to that question (and it is complex so there is no one answer), it makes no difference, because he is doing what he WANTS to do about this. whether it is because he thinks it is better for them or he thinks it is better for him or he doesnt want them to think badly of him, and i'm sure it is a combination of all of those things and more, he has CHOSEN to stay married. the only thing you can deal with is how YOU feel about being with somebody that is going to continue being married. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Good reply newbby, esp. the last part. He works away during the week, sees his W and C at weekends. He has no intention of separating or divorcing at the moment. I know you have tons of feelings for him, but how long are you willing to share him with his wife? What if this is it? How things are going to be forever? Can you deal with that, accept it and just live life knowing you can't have him when you want or need him? It really seems unfair and you're getting the short end of the stick. I'm not telling you to dump him, but maybe take a step back and figure out what YOU want, and not leave it up to him. I'm sure he isn't malcious, but the way things are now, it's so easy for him...Wife and his kids...Then he has you too. I know I don't know the dynamtic between you two, but why would he want to change things when all is working to his favour? Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 yeah WWIU... we both (MM and I) know that it's not going to be like this for much longer. It's totally a case of when... but who knows when 'getting to know you' turns into taking you for granted... and at what point does 'i need to maintain this thing with my little girl' become an excuse..? I just don't know. And who does..? I can't see me believing in it for more than another year. But at the same time... is that too short a time, if you're the little girl wanting your Dad to be around..? I just don't know how to judge the situation. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I don't know what to say, I've not been in your situation - All I can say is, if things do go your way and you guys get together WILL you be able to fully trust him 100%? Will that love be enough? Time will tell. I would hate for you to be here a year from now, still wondering when and if things are going to change...Remember Marie1973? Don't let that happen to you. Broken promises and alot of heartache. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 yeah WWIU... we both (MM and I) know that it's not going to be like this for much longer. It's totally a case of when. Hoo boy! The oldest story in the book. Sadly, women continue to fall for it. Hope really is a b!tch. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 thankyou wwiu, and i agree with alot of your last post too esp the very beginning!(joke). but i do, its true sami, you really have to take the relationship as it is and decide if its to your liking or not. i know oe had a different approach and she set out for what she wanted, and inspiring as i think she can sometimes be, she began with a bit more of a hopeful situation. the child involved was older and the marriage had long been dead and as you pointed out, he told his wife. in the case of things where you have certain control, a little future planning is a good thing to do. in the case of things where another has the control (and he does) then you have to either accept them as they are or move on. you dont HAVE to, but it is simpler and therefore better. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Yeah, the whole 'can you trust him after he was lying to his W?' thing... That's a whole other thing. And I just don't know. The more he continues with this A, and thinking it's OK (as a way of getting to know me), the more I feel badly about him. And I just don't know! How can I know? There are no people here on this forum who can advise me about this. And I can't possibly know now how long it will be before I feel whatever feelings I will need to feel in order that I leave this situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 double post Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hoo boy! The oldest story in the book. Sadly, women continue to fall for it. Hope really is a b!tch. Nice job of snipping the thrust of the post, thereby taking out the point that it is about about ME getting tired of the situation and deciding WHEN... and asking for input of WHEN to give up on it. Get it now..? Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 its true sami, you really have to take the relationship as it is and decide if its to your liking or not. That's one way I've been looking at it. Actually, at this stage, if he were single, and we were going steady, chatting, dating, and getting to know eachother... everything would be fine... and I'd still have some things I'd want to know if I was going to be with him 'forever'... But over the whole thing is the fact he's still M to someone else.. so how can I (and I DON'T) feel everything's A-OK .. because soon enough there's going to be a direction we're not going to be going in unless he divorces her... And over the whole thing is the (obvious) problem that he is lying to his W, living a sh*te situation with his children (working away), and thinking this is an OK way of proceeding, when everyone knows it's not. Anyone who wants to bash me because I don't see a problem just doesn't have any insight into my thoughts and concerns about this whole situation. You just don't know, so how can you suggest that I'm deluded or misled..? Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 and asking for input of WHEN to give up on it. Easy. Now. Because you're in the same trap a zillion women before you have fallen into - believing what he says even though you already know he's a liar. You're not deluded. You're in denial. You still believe he might leave. That's the 'willing suspension of disbelief'. That's why hope's a b!tch. If you lost hope, you'd be able to cut it off and take care of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well I'd appreciate your input. If you could point out something specific, or a particular aspect of what I've said, what he's said, or what he's done, that you can offer advice on... then I'm all ears. On the other hand, blanket condemnation based on 'he's the MM' 'You're the OW' and not looking at specifics... means nothing, and I will ignore. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 It's so easy to justify it all, that's the thing. For him too. You feel badly, but not enough to walk away. I'm not saying that to hurt you, we decide things that could hurt us (Look at me and smoking! hehehe newbby!) I know it is wrong, my father died of lung cancer. WTF DO I do? Still smoke. But in your case, the heart is ruling the mind, the emotions are so intense, you dont' feel strong enough to walk away because of the pain ... And not having him in your life, going through all that. That could be why you're not ready to see the full picture. And him too. Why end something that feels so right? Well, for the obvious reasons, he's married and not to you. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 sami, i suppose you could give yourself a time when you think the getting to know each other period should end, and then stand firm and discontinue the relationship. not so much an ultimatum as a right i have been understanding but can no longer continue to compromise myself. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 wwiu, shame on you for smoking, i could think up a good analogy for people who smoke, involving ow and mm.... Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 LOL! Dumb teens! Yes, I was a dumb one back then for starting smoking. Still am. Link to post Share on other sites
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