I am falling for my married dentist - please help!

[erika2610]

And half of LoveShack is too, by the looks of things.

 

Dammit, I want to see what happens next... so why wouldn't mandy feel the same..?

 

I think it's just frustrating. She came here asking for advice.. people gave it to her, and after 750 posts, she still ignores everyone. People are trying to save her from hurting herself, and trying to get her to see him for what he is, and she just still goes on about her little 'dates'. I just got frustrated a long time ago. I finally decided it's like beating a dead horse..

[Sami_D]

I'm never sure when I read this thread whether the whole thing is made up, but, assuming it is real:

 

IShe came here asking for advice..

 

Mandy is asking for advice on how to pursue things with the MM. Not advice on how to end it. It's very hard to follow all that 'ending it' advice even when you have the intention and need to end things. Mandy isn't in that position. Logically speaking, why would mandy even read advice suggesting ways of ending something that hasn't even really begun yet?

[Sami_D]

sami, sorry hun,

i think you may have misinterpreted my words though...

when i said "do you believe you can sum up your relationship?", i meant the one you are in now. i cant even remember why i said that.

 

Hello newbby. Just thought I'd give a quick reply to this so you don't think I'm ignoring you!

 

Well, um... I could sum it up... maybe I will in another thread so as not to hijack mandy's again. But I'm not very tempted to, because a new thread will just attract a lot of 'he's married, quit it!' posts that I can't be fagged to read just at the moment.

[newbby]

there will always be responses like that, but, you probably know the posters well enough now to know who is understanding of your situation or your type of situation and who isnt.

you could always pm me if you want to sum it up to me! if you dont want to share, thats cool.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Mandy is asking for advice on how to pursue things with the MM.

 

That would take but one post:

 

Make yourself completely available sexually and emotionally, understand and accept that he cannot be completely available sexually or emotionally, and promise to be discreet and not interefere with his marriage.

[Outcast]

Mandy is asking for advice on how to pursue things with the MM

 

Splendid. Shall LS be the place to come to ask how to build bombs, too? Get or make illegal drugs? Molest children? Let's school people in how to hurt others because that's the true nature of 'love'. As long as we 'support' (i.e. fully approve of ) whatever someone wants to do, well then aren't we just the best most 'compassionate' people because surely 'compassionate' means agreeing with whatever anybody happens to want to do. Regardless of the potential consequences of their actions.

[newbby]

Splendid. Shall LS be the place to come to ask how to build bombs, too? Get or make illegal drugs? Molest children? Let's school people in how to hurt others because that's the true nature of 'love'. As long as we 'support' (i.e. fully approve of ) whatever someone wants to do, well then aren't we just the best most 'compassionate' people because surely 'compassionate' means agreeing with whatever anybody happens to want to do. Regardless of the potential consequences of their actions.

 

 

not quite the same thing is it outcast, since the mm is a fully consenting, adult.

[Owl]

Newbby- Agreed...but here's the fun question bound to upset everyone....

 

 

Was his WIFE a fully consenting adult in this?

[Outcast]

not quite the same thing is it outcast, since the mm is a fully consenting, adult.

 

So are people who buy and make drugs, people who build bombs.

 

And, as Owl points out, the mm's family does NOT consent, including the children.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Newbby- Agreed...but here's the fun question bound to upset everyone....

 

 

Was his WIFE a fully consenting adult in this?

 

EXCELLENT point!

[whichwayisup]

Newbby- Agreed...but here's the fun question bound to upset everyone....

 

Was his WIFE a fully consenting adult in this?

 

Oh wise one...Such an excellent point! That and Outcast mentioning too, their children.

 

I'm sure his children would be SO proud of dear papa if they knew what he was really up to.

[erika2610]

I'm never sure when I read this thread whether the whole thing is made up, but, assuming it is real:

 

 

 

Mandy is asking for advice on how to pursue things with the MM. Not advice on how to end it. It's very hard to follow all that 'ending it' advice even when you have the intention and need to end things. Mandy isn't in that position. Logically speaking, why would mandy even read advice suggesting ways of ending something that hasn't even really begun yet?

 

I dunno. Like 1,000 posts ago, she was torn and wanted to end it. She was gonna tell him that. She goes back and forth so much, it confuses me..

[Sami_D]

Splendid.

 

Well no, it's not splendid. But that's not the point I was making.

 

I was pointing out why she's not taking the 'advice' offered. She didn't ask for it.

[erika2610]

Well no, it's not splendid. But that's not the point I was making.

 

I was pointing out why she's not taking the 'advice' offered. She didn't ask for it.

 

She has asked for it a few times..

[Sami_D]

She has asked for it a few times..

 

A couple of times, yes. But (sorry mandy) those were just words. Most of the advice she's asked for is 'what do you think he thinks?', 'what do you think he'll do if I do this?', 'what do you think it means if he does this?' None of that was in any way intending to end it. It was all about beginning something with him and continuing it.

[erika2610]

A couple of times, yes. But (sorry mandy) those were just words. Most of the advice she's asked for is 'what do you think he thinks?', 'what do you think he'll do if I do this?', 'what do you think it means if he does this?' None of that was in any way intending to end it. It was all about beginning something with him and continuing it.

 

I did realize that. That's why I stopped giving her advice. She won't listen to anything she doesn't want to hear. She loves the llittle bit of attention she gets from this guy. I just hate seeing people knowingly put themselves into a situation when they KNOW they're going to get hurt. I hate seeing people go through the pain I went through..

[newbby]

yes, i knew that one was coming. all the ow sees, and knows is what the mm tells her. poor trapped mm, poor children stuck in the middle of the marital wars, poor wife who is just as trapped as he is, so it is not usually a fully informed decision that the ow makes....

still she is partially to blame as she does know he is still married....

its not quite on the same level as abuse and murder though, i think you are stretching a bit too far equating cheating with such things.

[Owl]

Newbby-

 

It probably isn't on the same level as murder...but it IS at least on the same level as abuse.

 

Ask ANYONE who's been a BS in an affair...it is the single most PAINFUL thing you can go through. Read some of the comments about how people react to finding out about their spouses infidelity...you'll see words like 'devestated', 'destroyed'...'hurt beyond belief'. Most BS's will say that this pain is greater than anything they've ever dealt with before...greater than the death of a family member, worse than the pain of living through a major debilitating disease (this from people who are suffering from one)...you name it. I've spoken with women who were dealing with issues from rape and they've indicated that the trauma from the affair was harder for them to recover from.

 

Personally, it was the worst emotional blow I've ever suffered. And I've had a few...Dad died when I was 5. Raised in a series of emotionally and physically abusive situations where my 'stepfathers' were nothing more than drunks. Ran away when I was 15 and lived on the streets for 10 months...several months of that in Mexico. Seen combat twice in the military. Lost my mom to a long debilitating disease. Learned that my youngest son was diagnosed with autism. (Later found it wasn't that severe...but that was YEARS later).

 

I've dealt with depression and been diagnosed and treated for PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) twice in my life. Once, post combat. The second time was during/after my wife affair. And trust me, the second time was FAR worse.

 

Until you've truly been through it and tried to deal with it and worked to save your marriage, it's hard to imagine. Personally, I think the OM/OW get a taste of it somewhat when the affair ends...but the betrayal and pain is even greater for the BS because of the greater, long-term bonds that are damaged/destroyed by the affair. Think about what it would feel like for the OM/OW...if they had been together day and night for 18 years and THEN the relationship ended in betrayal. You START to get the picture.

 

And please remember I'm not attacking you here friend. I'm simply trying to get the point across on WHY it can be compared to abuse and other serious emotional trauma.

[newbby]

i dont think the pain the ow feels can even be compared with the pain of the bs. the relationship is more painful than most, for the ow, but still nothing like having your entire safety net and everything you know, your entire world ripped apart.

i have experienced also, what you describe the pain as and worse, but not for the same reasons, and i understand what you are saying.

perhaps it is a good education for people to read the experience from your side. maybe there should be a post pinned in here for ow to read.

thankyou for sharing your side of the story owl.

[Sami_D]

maybe there should be a post pinned in here for ow to read.

 

But it's not the OW betraying the spouse. That accusation belongs to the WS.

 

I don't know if there's a lot to be gained by comparing the 'hurts' that people feel in different situations. I think that to an extent that has to be personal, and based on expectations (including expecting deaths when your parents are older, vs. the shock of the early death of a parent or SO).

 

I would say that ANY kind of betrayal of trust, and the discovery of such, must be right up there on the list of life-shattering things. In this, the BS is really going to suffer in a way that the OW can't even imagine (unless she's had a similar experience of course). Which is one reason I'm always surprised at this 'tell the other spouse' thing that BS feel when the OW is married. That is going to ruin someone else's life, and yet in one case (when both cheaters are M) it's advocated, and in another (when the OW is single) it's frowned upon.

 

I don't think that the degree of hurt likely to be suffered by those told is ever really appreciated.

[newbby]

true the accusation does belong to the ws, something that few people seem to realise. the ow is always the bigger criminal and there also needs to be an education on the ow's perspective. more often than not, the ow is also betrayed and manipulated, there are still things that i am discovering were lies even now.

however, once i had begun to suspect ex mm of lying to the extent that he was, i did think about how his wife would feel, but, i was very caught up in my own traumas and also very addicted. eventually i got the strength to really get out.

i dont know if pinning the bs experiences would really help the current ow, as i think the majority are trying to get out of the relationship, but, i think it might help those who have not yet begun the affair. that and a list of common lines, lies and excuses.

[tinktronik]

you know Mandy, you obviously want to hook up with the dentist.Go ahead, at your present junction in emotional maturity , it will not have a great impact on you no matter how your actions help impact others lives.So emotionally I suspect you will feel no more grief over this than and highschooler breaking it off with their crush, no matter how it turns out for you.

And your dentist , he's simply chosen the wrong prey, if he had any sense , he would chose a woman who had at least some idea of what she was doing so that shed keep her mouth shut and not cause problems for him.But hey, his choise.

Why do OW get more blame.Because marrige is considered to be something sacred between two people . Considered mind you. And those two people make mistakes , screw it up , ect, thats fair game, but its their relationship.But marrige is not between three people , and the consensus is you keep your nose out of others relationships, even neighbors and family, so another person actively trying to damage a relationship is commonly not looked highly upon.Therefore the third person is the interloper.

[Sami_D]

Good post, and I don't wish to argue with any of it.

 

And your dentist , he's simply chosen the wrong prey, if he had any sense , he would chose a woman who had at least some idea of what she was doing so that shed keep her mouth shut and not cause problems for him.But hey, his choise.

 

Just wanted to say that I have never, in this entire thread, seen anything that shows that the Dentist 'chose' or was in any way pursuing mandy. I think she was interested in him, layed it all out on a platter, and continues to do so. I don't think he's 'innocent' at all... he continues to accept her offers of 'Christmas drinks' and coffee, etc... but let's face it. Has he EVER made one move towards her..? No. He's not pursuing... he's sitting back and taking the texts. MM who doesn't have to do any work.

[whichwayisup]

true the accusation does belong to the ws, something that few people seem to realise. the ow is always the bigger criminal and there also needs to be an education on the ow's perspective. more often than not, the ow is also betrayed and manipulated

 

Yes the WS is the one who intially got the ball rolling and is the one cheating on his/her spouse...BUT, the OW/OM is a big part of the picture and willingly allowing the MM/MW to cheat on his/her spouse. Ofcourse frame of mind comes into play, the feelings and justifying the actions to suit themselves better...

 

Pain is pain and there's no point in saying who feels more pain and why. Each party involved feels pain, though the BS gets HURT the most because they weren't privy to what was going on and they get blindsided when they find out about the A. The OW/MM at some point KNOWS that it will end and so therefore that neediness and desperate that is felt takes over and maybe short term the intensity of the pain is awful but long term the OW/OM can go on. After a long marriage it's harder to pick up the pieces. There's more long term pain, betrayal and history...Owl summed it up in his post earlier.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Mandy, I don't know what else to say to you. I wish that you have learned through other people's mistakes, tried to understand their pain...But it seems obvious that you still have blinders on and after now 52 pages of replies you still seem you don't get the full picture. SO many people reached out to help you end this. To better yourself but you're hellbent on listening to that friend of yours and walk willing into the fire. I hope for your sake that you don't get burned badly.

[newbby]

Why do OW get more blame.Because marrige is considered to be something sacred between two people . Considered mind you. And those two people make mistakes , screw it up , ect, thats fair game, but its their relationship.But marrige is not between three people , and the consensus is you keep your nose out of others relationships, even neighbors and family, so another person actively trying to damage a relationship is commonly not looked highly upon.Therefore the third person is the interloper.

 

you mean because they are married they have a higher social status, despite the fact that more and more people are opting for singledom. yes i think this is true, marriage is certainly held up as the ideal to strive for, and those who have succeeded are deemed more worthy.

my aunt had an affair with a guy, and she told her children all about it behind their fathers back etc, eventually her h found out and left her. three years on she left the om, and she hated him, she said that she was vulnerable and he took advantage! he has forever been the bad guy in that story.

single people, more lonely and more vulnerable and usually stronger than the greedy married people who want affairs with them, and yet also have to take full responsibility for the person who actively sought them.

 

so another person actively trying to damage a relationship is commonly not looked highly upon.Therefore the third person is the interloper

 

and this is always the misconception, because the true story never really comes out from the cs. the cs rarely admit to lying and manipulating the op into an affair, do they.