Overly friendly people and interest

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, BaileyB said:

We’ve given you examples that disprove your viewpoints in the past - you dismiss them. 

I am sure there are lots of examples, perhaps lots of people on this very forum. There just very few examples around me in fact there are more examples which do support my thinking. Nevertheless this week I took on the advice here and just ignore the realities around me and try create me own. In fact I found someone really friendly, albeit a very long way from me and there have been some nice other interactions this week. 

To be frank maybe needs and wants are very different, maybe I just need some warm interaction to feel like I am actually worth something. Yes, I want someone really attractive on my arm who engages me in great conversation, been there done that and it does feel good but do I really need that? Without saying too much a lot of my week has been spent in hospitals and these places have a bad affect on me in so much that life suddenly becomes more fragile and part of me just knows I may end up there one day all alone. 

When I look at my balance sheet of life has it really been worth it? So yes on Monday when I need to interact with that very attractive Australian tenant, i'll try project some confidence, I'll try some banter but for no other reason than why not, I'll never be someone that sort of person would want to date and so I may as well adopt a "why not" approach. As hard as it will be to remove my inherent analytical un emotive thinking I will try to.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

To be frank maybe needs and wants are very different, maybe I just need some warm interaction to feel like I am actually worth something. Yes, I want someone really attractive on my arm who engages me in great conversation, been there done that and it does feel good but do I really need that?

Wanting warm interaction is a basic human need for most.  It certainly doesn't make you different.  

The bit which confuses me is when you talk about wanting warm interaction, but then talk about warm interaction with an attractive woman on your arm.  I'd like to help, but I still can't figure out if this thread is about friendship or romance.   

[Weezy1973]

16 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

To be frank maybe needs and wants are very different, maybe I just need some warm interaction to feel like I am actually worth something.

External validation doesn’t fix low self-worth. As you found out in your previous relationship - despite having a woman you’re attracted to want to date you, you still didn’t feel good enough. Again, these issues run deep. Nothing “out there” is going to fix it. It need to come from within.

[Alpacalia]

The mind's pretty fascinating how it will rationalize anything. It's all self-deception. You don't realize that your mind is wired to protect you from facing unpleasant truths, it often tries to make excuses or find alternate explanations for our situations.

Carry on. 

[ZA Dater]

On 5/27/2023 at 12:33 AM, basil67 said:

Wanting warm interaction is a basic human need for most.  It certainly doesn't make you different.  

The bit which confuses me is when you talk about wanting warm interaction, but then talk about warm interaction with an attractive woman on your arm.  I'd like to help, but I still can't figure out if this thread is about friendship or romance.   

I think its a bit of both really. One can lead to the other.

How I get around a lot of this is to just walk, everything just feels a bit better, yes the world feels ever more lonely but in that there is some solace. I did a 10 km walk today along a very busy ocean front walk way and was struck by the groups, groups of friends, elderly people in wheels chairs, children but what I was struck the most by was everyone be it in their group only interacting with that group, maybe this is normal.

Its here I question the cold approach sometimes advocated by people, for example there was an attractive lady walking along with me, I thought about attempting to strike up a conversation but then I noticed ear phones and then I realised the odds of her being single are just about zero.

Cynically I sometimes wonder if overly friendly people are simply so as to use a certain form of manipulation.

[ZA Dater]

On 5/27/2023 at 2:45 PM, Weezy1973 said:

External validation doesn’t fix low self-worth. As you found out in your previous relationship - despite having a woman you’re attracted to want to date you, you still didn’t feel good enough. Again, these issues run deep. Nothing “out there” is going to fix it. It need to come from within.

It can indeed fix quite a bit. The problem with that relationship was I simply had and still have no idea how to do relationships. The only basis I have is one of just simply trying to be the best person I can be and show some degree of care toward the other person. I will also be honest I perhaps was not as enthusiastic as I should have been and yes I was not good enough and to this day I miss her each day but I understand why I was not suitable for her but I do wonder why she waited so long to tell me that.

For me worth will always be measured against my own goals and more some of those are experience based. When it comes to dating almost all of those are superficially based so yes a good conversation of maybe 2 minutes with someone attractive is nice because for those two minutes I have her attention which someone like me would definitely not normally get. I know though at minutes 3 the conversation is done, she can move on to more attractive and charming guys or they will arrive and much the same thing happens. 

Charming me is remarkably easy if she is attractive and confident so yes the line between friendly and interested for me is always blurred and its becoming more and more difficult to distinguish the two. 

You are partly right though but a lot of our worth is also derived from the feelings around us how the outside feels about us. I've never really felt valued at anything more often than not its me sitting watching other get all the sort of things in life I can just wish for and never seem to get no matter how hard I try.

Then again that is just life, the fortunate and the rest.

 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think its a bit of both really. One can lead to the other.

Ah the approach of an "orbiter".  Thing is, friendship leading to romance is highly unlikely because most people vibe as a friend OR with romantic interest

Would it be true to say that your desire for friends is nothing more than having them as a potential stepping stone to romance?   Is this why you don't want to be friends with women who aren't beautiful?  What about being buddies with men?  

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

How I get around a lot of this is to just walk, everything just feels a bit better, yes the world feels ever more lonely but in that there is some solace. I did a 10 km walk today along a very busy ocean front walk way and was struck by the groups, groups of friends, elderly people in wheels chairs, children but what I was struck the most by was everyone be it in their group only interacting with that group, maybe this is normal.

Yes, perfectly normal.  If I'm out with my friends, my focus is on them...not on other randoms in the vicinity.

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its here I question the cold approach sometimes advocated by people, for example there was an attractive lady walking along with me, I thought about attempting to strike up a conversation but then I noticed ear phones and then I realised the odds of her being single are just about zero.

Yes, the odds are about zero.  Not just for you, but for most.  I remember talking to an attractive woman once about how often she gets cold approached...it's every time she goes out and it drives her nuts.  She shuts down guys hard and fast because she's had so much practice.  And there's the whole objectification thing which goes with it....knowing that the only reason they approach is because of how she looks.

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Cynically I sometimes wonder if overly friendly people are simply so as to use a certain form of manipulation.

Broadly speaking, there are many friendly people in my community: the butchers, the barber, the security guard, the school parents, the neighbours...they aren't after anything but a friendly chat.  They have nothing to gain by being friendly to others, but they still do it because they are good people. 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

Ah the approach of an "orbiter".  Thing is, friendship leading to romance is highly unlikely because most people vibe as a friend OR with romantic interest

Would it be true to say that your desire for friends is nothing more than having them as a potential stepping stone to romance?   Is this why you don't want to be friends with women who aren't beautiful?  What about being buddies with men?  

Yes, perfectly normal.  If I'm out with my friends, my focus is on them...not on other randoms in the vicinity.

Yes, the odds are about zero.  Not just for you, but for most.  I remember talking to an attractive woman once about how often she gets cold approached...it's every time she goes out and it drives her nuts.  She shuts down guys hard and fast because she's had so much practice.  And there's the whole objectification thing which goes with it....knowing that the only reason they approach is because of how she looks.

Broadly speaking, there are many friendly people in my community: the butchers, the barber, the security guard, the school parents, the neighbours...they aren't after anything but a friendly chat.  They have nothing to gain by being friendly to others, but they still do it because they are good people. 

Yes that would be 100% true. I do not really buy into this "befriend her she can introduce you to he friends" because its pretty much nonsense, if the person is not interested in you there is frankly little to no chance she will try set you up with her friends. I have always had this view and its probably why nothing actually works. 

Frankly speaking I have nothing in common with most guys either and the people I used to be friends with (all three of them) have moved on, kids, wives and I really do not work in that dynamic as a single guy with no kids and to be honest I do not enjoy the spare part pity party either. 

Sure the odds are close to zero but unfortunately for me I know people who seem to be brilliant at that sort of making conversation from nothing but I guess it does help they are attractive people and have a high degree of charm. Recently I have had the misfortune to deal

I have always maintained ones perception is very much a consequence of ones experiences.

[Alpacalia]

17 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

How I get around a lot of this is to just walk, everything just feels a bit better, yes the world feels ever more lonely but in that there is some solace. I did a 10 km walk today along a very busy ocean front walk way and was struck by the groups, groups of friends, elderly people in wheels chairs, children but what I was struck the most by was everyone be it in their group only interacting with that group, maybe this is normal.

Would you enjoy going to a part of town that was more deserted and quiet, a park that wasn't overly crowded? Where you stroll in a measure of peace, the sound of the leaves brushing against each other, a light breeze and birds singing in the trees. I find in those moments, with only the bubble of nature surrounding me, I forget the world for a little while and just be me; it's really comforting.

Walking in the city can be nice too.

[basil67]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes that would be 100% true. I do not really buy into this "befriend her she can introduce you to he friends" because its pretty much nonsense,

OK, so you don't really value people in a platonic sense.  You don't want their conversation, their company, sharing of mutual laughs and support?   You don't want a mate to go cycling with or to travel to a car show with?  

You're again talking about the attractive charming people being the ones who can make good conversation.  Given that they account for a tiny proportion of the community, how do you explain the rest of us regular people who still manage to have friends and a social life?

[ZA Dater]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

OK, so you don't really value people in a platonic sense.  You don't want their conversation, their company, sharing of mutual laughs and support?   You don't want a mate to go cycling with or to travel to a car show with?  

You're again talking about the attractive charming people being the ones who can make good conversation.  Given that they account for a tiny proportion of the community, how do you explain the rest of us regular people who still manage to have friends and a social life?

Well i have been on this planet for nearly 40 years and never really had that so I guess I cant miss what I have never really had. I think I do not really put much importance on any social life at all, yet another aspect which makes me a basket case for dating, yes it can be nice to spend time with a crowd of people with common interests but that is where it starts and stops for me.

Good example of this I get a random msg yesterday from someone matched with on OLD about 3 years ago "do you want to go for drinks". Why would I want to?  A whole lot of overly friendly voice notes, again why and I went as far to ask why "because you were nice". Clearly she did not remember I do not drink. 

Of course I realize some would think "ah this is perfect for a casual hook up because clearly she remembers me", this person does not have that appeal to me at all. If there were a ton of shared interests then maybe I'd consider it but the last time this happened with someone she wanted to go back to her place and I categorically did not, suffice to end the goodbye was pretty awkward.

I am sure most people can make conversation I think the purpose just differs. 

[Wiseman2]

18 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 I get a random msg yesterday from someone matched with on OLD about 3 years ago "do you want to go for drinks". 

This is not that complicated. Perhaps she was backtracking and gave it a shot. She doesn't have to memorize your drinking habits. "going for a drink" is an invitation and you're free to order soda if you want.  It's really a yes or no question: "No sorry" or "sure when would you like to meet up". 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Wiseman2

[basil67]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well i have been on this planet for nearly 40 years and never really had that so I guess I cant miss what I have never really had. I think I do not really put much importance on any social life at all, yet another aspect which makes me a basket case for dating, yes it can be nice to spend time with a crowd of people with common interests but that is where it starts and stops for me.

Good example of this I get a random msg yesterday from someone matched with on OLD about 3 years ago "do you want to go for drinks". Why would I want to?  A whole lot of overly friendly voice notes, again why and I went as far to ask why "because you were nice". Clearly she did not remember I do not drink. 

Of course I realize some would think "ah this is perfect for a casual hook up because clearly she remembers me", this person does not have that appeal to me at all. If there were a ton of shared interests then maybe I'd consider it but the last time this happened with someone she wanted to go back to her place and I categorically did not, suffice to end the goodbye was pretty awkward.

You've previously complained that there's nobody who may check in and ask how you are.  You know this is the role of a platonic friend?   Of course, there's a lot more you can do together other than talking about problems (and granted, there's a limit to the amount of support a friend can give), but caring is an important part of it.  

The msg you received yesterday may have been for a chat, not a hookup.  And as @Wiseman2 said, you don't have to drink alcohol if you're out for "drinks'.  It's perfectly OK to order a soda.  Just like how you don't have to drink coffee if someone asks you out for "coffee".  Just order something 

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am sure most people can make conversation I think the purpose just differs. 

I think for most people, it's about making a connection.  Whether it be fleeting exchange or turns into a long friendship, that connection to another person can be very pleasant.

How would your purpose differ?  Is it that you want something from them?

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

You've previously complained that there's nobody who may check in and ask how you are.  You know this is the role of a platonic friend?   Of course, there's a lot more you can do together other than talking about problems (and granted, there's a limit to the amount of support a friend can give), but caring is an important part of it.  

The msg you received yesterday may have been for a chat, not a hookup.  And as @Wiseman2 said, you don't have to drink alcohol if you're out for "drinks'.  It's perfectly OK to order a soda.  Just like how you don't have to drink coffee if someone asks you out for "coffee".  Just order something 

I think for most people, it's about making a connection.  Whether it be fleeting exchange or turns into a long friendship, that connection to another person can be very pleasant.

How would your purpose differ?  Is it that you want something from them?

Just not interested in seeing her because already back then the conversation was going places I was not comfortable with. Its more than that, I simply do not enjoy bars, pubs or clubs, there is no purpose for me to go to any of these places they are loud and conversation is near impossible add in the unpredictability of alcohol and its affects on people and yeah I'd rather just avoid completely. I have nothing in common with her and I do not find her attractive at all. Sure, you can say "be her friend" but the problem is the last time we chatted she did want more than that.

I never really feel like I connect with anyone hence most conversations are about a purpose and I never talk about myself,  nobody asks about me and we focus on the task at hand/objective. Sure, I'll ask about them but its a one sided conversation in that regard. 

 

[Wiseman2]

53 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

. I have nothing in common with her and I do not find her attractive at all. 

Fair enough. Just say 'no thanks' and delete, block and unmatch. No reason to worry about someone you don't even want to meet. Maybe go through your dating apps and unmatch, delete, block all the dead weight. Too confusing to keep definite 'no gos' around. 

[BaileyB]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:35 AM, ZA Dater said:

yes it can be nice to spend time with a crowd of people with common interests but that is where it starts and stops for me.

You dates a woman for almost a year and you’ve had other close friendships with women. Please quit catastophizing. 

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Just not interested in seeing her because already back then the conversation was going places I was not comfortable with.

Well then you decline to talk/meet. People do this kind of stuff everyday for any number of reasons - they are bored and they want to talk, maybe they want to hook-up, maybe they just want to meet up for something to do. If you are not interested, politely decline and move on with your life. Life/relationships shouldn’t be this hard…

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I simply do not enjoy bars, pubs or clubs, there is no purpose for me to go to any of these places they are loud and conversation is near impossible add in the unpredictability of alcohol and its affects on people and yeah I'd rather just avoid completely.

Well then, don’t go to a bar. There are plenty of other places to meet people and plenty of other things to do on a date if you are not interested in going to a bar.

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I never really feel like I connect with anyone hence most conversations are about a purpose and I never talk about myself,  nobody asks about me and we focus on the task at hand/objective. Sure, I'll ask about them but its a one sided conversation in that regard. 

Are you seriously still wanting to debate the fact that the women you want to date can’t hold a conversation, never ask about you, and as such never get to know the wonderful person that you really are… that somehow, it’s on the women to carry a conversation because you don’t want to share information about yourself and you can’t flirt/laugh/or converse about any topic other than work or cars. Are we really going to circle back to that old discussion…

I thought your question was related to learning to distinguish between overly friendly people and those who are romantically interested.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by BaileyB

[Lisa]

Thread closed as it's running in circles