Wasting Money

[BettyDraper]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You know, there are probably many men who would say that they just showed up for the wedding… Their future wife and their parents planned the whole event. 

I’m sorry, I don’t have any other advice for you - you will apparently have to decide to cancel the wedding or go along… Its not something I would ask of my partner, and it’s not something I would be happy about either. 

Exactly! Most men don't care about weddings. 

Don't be sorry. I appreciated all of your suggestions. 

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

Exactly! Most men don't care about weddings. 

And many women dream about their wedding and enjoy planning every little detail… and somehow, they get through the day and life goes on…

[BettyDraper]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

And many women dream about their wedding and enjoy planning every little detail… and somehow, they get through the day and life goes on…

They get through it because they want a wedding. They’re so excited. 
 

I told you I’m not normal. I have never dreamed of being a bride and I don’t enjoy anything about planning a wedding. I just think of all the wasted money and shake my head at the waste. 

[BaileyB]

28 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

They get through it because they want a wedding. They’re so excited. 

I meant the men - they stand where they are told and they get through it. They may even enjoy it. But, life goes on… As you said, it’s just one day.

28 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

I just think of all the wasted money and shake my head at the waste. 

To you, it is wasted money. To others, the experience of celebrating their marriage to the person that they love with friends and family in attendance is priceless. They have dreamed of this day forever and the photos will hang on their wall for the rest of their lives. For many, a wedding is an experience and memory they will have forever. 

Sure, I could stay home and let my money collect in my bank account - but I would prefer to travel and have experiences and create memories. One could argue that having children is the most financially irresponsible decision a person could make - the cost to raise a child is tremendous - but people do it because there is joy to be had in raising a family. As you know, people don’t always think logically and practically about life!

He is not wrong to want to spend money and have a beautiful wedding. Lots of people do it! You are not wrong either, it’s a lot of money to spend on what will be one day in your life.

The problem here is - a “wedding” does not mean the same thing to you as it does to him. Your values, as it relates to a wedding, are incompatible. In much the same way that I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who is so frugal that they refused to travel - we would be incompatible. But, is this incompatibility related to the wedding an dealbreaker? Only you can decide. The bigger problem is, IMHO - he is not willing to compromise. That would be my frustration - I know you say that you are aligned with “everything else” but how do you start a marriage when your partner dismisses your feelings and refuses to compromise. 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

If I may, my concern would be that his “dream wedding” is worth more to him than the happiness and comfort of his bride. 

And at the end of the day, how much joy is there to be found in a wedding if the woman that he is marrying is unhappy? 

But again, for some women, the man is simply a means to get the “wedding” and children. There are all kinds…

Edited July 21, 2023 by BaileyB

[FMW]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:59 AM, BettyDraper said:

Over and over again, I tried to tell my fiancé how I felt. I told him that a big wedding scared me and I didn’t want to waste money. He kept saying “Yeah but I need this. 

To me this is very concerning. 

Full disclosure, I do not want to marry again so I certainly wouldn't see my partner insisting the marriage start with me dealing with something that was difficult for me as the action of a loving partner.

My experience is that these "little" things can be just the beginning of things to come, indicative of a general view of how things should be.  What else is he going to want to have the final say on?

Not even going into his brushing off your anxiety issues, if you feel forced and like you have to go along with what HE wants, resentment is likely to set in and over time will grow.

It sounds like you're committed to having the wedding the way he wants.  For your own good, just don't go forward always giving in, especially when it comes to your peace of mind.

 

 

[BettyDraper]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:38 PM, BaileyB said:

I meant the men - they stand where they are told and they get through it. They may even enjoy it. But, life goes on… As you said, it’s just one day.

To you, it is wasted money. To others, the experience of celebrating their marriage to the person that they love with friends and family in attendance is priceless. They have dreamed of this day forever and the photos will hang on their wall for the rest of their lives. For many, a wedding is an experience and memory they will have forever. 

Sure, I could stay home and let my money collect in my bank account - but I would prefer to travel and have experiences and create memories. One could argue that having children is the most financially irresponsible decision a person could make - the cost to raise a child is tremendous - but people do it because there is joy to be had in raising a family. As you know, people don’t always think logically and practically about life!

He is not wrong to want to spend money and have a beautiful wedding. Lots of people do it! You are not wrong either, it’s a lot of money to spend on what will be one day in your life.

The problem here is - a “wedding” does not mean the same thing to you as it does to him. Your values, as it relates to a wedding, are incompatible. In much the same way that I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who is so frugal that they refused to travel - we would be incompatible. But, is this incompatibility related to the wedding an dealbreaker? Only you can decide. The bigger problem is, IMHO - he is not willing to compromise. That would be my frustration - I know you say that you are aligned with “everything else” but how do you start a marriage when your partner dismisses your feelings and refuses to compromise. 

 

I love to travel and I would gladly spend the wedding money on a wonderful European vacation. The experience of a different culture and all of the history is worth the money to me. 

Your point about spending money on what we value is well taken. One of my cousins recently married and seeing pictures from his wedding helped me understand why my fiance wants a wedding so badly. All of the smiles and embraces between family members were so sweet. Seeing my cousin have his first dance with his new wife and kiss her while guests looked on with love was heartwarming. 

I think it would be different if my fiance had been married before. Usually, those who are making second trips down the aisle don't care about weddings. 

I don't think this is a deal breaker. It is just one day. I can use techniques to deal with my social anxiety such as taking breaks. Many brides use liquid courage to get down the aisle when they're nervous. I won't be drunk but I will have a glass of bubbly about an hour before the ceremony. 

I recently needed glasses in the worst way. I couldn't even see words on a tv screen. My fiance insisted that I see an eye doctor because I was resistant. I didn't want glasses. My glasses were very expensive because I have poor eyesight and I needed special lenses. My fiance paid for them without a peep. We don't have central AC in our home so we use a portable AC and a window one. The window AC in the master bedroom stopped working yesterday. My fiance immediately replaced it because he wanted me to be comfortable. 

[justwhoiam]

I've just read your posts, Betty.

It seems like you're approaching your upcoming wedding on the wrong foot.

First of all, traditionally, the couple doesn't put in almost any money. Their respective families do. (I think I only paid for church flowers) So what you're experiencing is just your modern take of being independent and not appreciating any family's involvement. Your stubborness has a price, and you're paying for it. Does it make sense? Probably not.

Bride and groom usually choose everything: what to wear, who to invite, invitation cards, wedding ceremony type and location, type of reception (buffet or multiple-course meal, 2 hours, whole day, whatever), favors if any. Families pay. That's always been the rule. And it still applies.

If the invitees are decent enough (and I'm assuming they are on his side), they will bring gifts or give you money as their present. And/or you could go to a travel agency and have your bridal registry there (that's a very modern thing to do). That way, you'd be able to splurge a bit, because if you're going to pay for it, you'll definitely go cheaper while choosing hotels, to save money.

As I was just starting out with everything, my bridal registry was at a housewares local store. I paid for my honeymoon myself (50/50 with him), and as I wanted nice places, I only had one week away instead of two in a relatively small fairytale European country. It was great.

You can let some selected people know about the travel agency, so that they can put money in it and you'll have your honeymoon paid for. And it will be the trip you want. He can even drop the hint, if he wants to, that he'd rather have money. Generally speaking, asking for money is always frowned upon. But I guess that'd be his way of compromising a bit.

When they couple feels like raising some extra money during the party, the friends will usually arrange for that to happen. They can collect some $ bills from guests and roll them in toilet paper that the couple will then unroll... that's meant to help them out in their new life together. And/or he can have his tie cut so that each of the guests can have a small bit of it as a souvenir of the day for a minimum amount ($10 or more). How many guests are we talking about? I had around 100, and they were mostly my guests. His family was less than 10 people.

No couple should ever get in debt for a wedding!

Also, just know that you can send invitation cards for just the wedding, and others for wedding + reception. Etiquette says that anyone receiving an invitation should give a present, even if they're not attending. So I had small presents from neighbors too.

Now, about the reception. Don't be passive letting him decide everything. I'm like you as I don't like being at the center of attention and being in photographs. Pick a photographer who can include a dvd in the price and has lots of patience to let you pick pics, effects and music. And who will give you all the original pictures full size. Then let him/her know that you hate posing and being in pics, so that he knows what to do. You can spend time alone with the groom, away from the crowd. That's expected as they all know there's a photo shoot going on. So when you feel you need to get away or get out, just tell your new hubby and flee for a bit.

I didn't want any dance, I didn't have a dj. The location could play background music, so that's what we had. But the location had a park, and a small playground where kids could play. There were outdoor swinging benches with canopies. There was an arch all covered with flowers. A small country wagon, a well and a nice fountain. All nice features where we all could take pictures. People could stroll, and have a nice time.

For an extra memory, you could surprise him with something you will arrange for him. You can ask all his family to participate in a Vidday (look it up online) for your wedding, telling everyone to keep it a secret. They will upload their video and it'll be some awesome memory.

I wouldn't have hired a wedding planner, to save money. You know, they don't work for free, they're usually expensive. I prefer going simple

[Els]

On 7/21/2023 at 8:33 AM, BettyDraper said:

I have tried to negotiate a compromise but he won't hear of it. He has very specific ideas of what he wants our wedding to look like.

I'm sorry to hear that. FWIW, I would personally be a bit concerned if a partner was completely unwilling to compromise on their idea of a "perfect" wedding... they really should be about two people, not one. I hope you two manage to find a way through this with the counseling.

On 7/21/2023 at 11:20 AM, BettyDraper said:

They get through it because they want a wedding. They’re so excited.

I told you I’m not normal. I have never dreamed of being a bride and I don’t enjoy anything about planning a wedding. I just think of all the wasted money and shake my head at the waste. 

I don't think it's as "abnormal" as you think it is. I literally never thought about a wedding or being a bride until H and I were engaged. I wasn't against a wedding per se, I just hadn't thought about it and had no idea what I wanted. I knew immediately that there were some things that I definitely DIDN'T want, like a huge guest list or an overly-decorated venue or a lot of pomp and circumstance... so we talked about what we each didn't want, and started from there. We eschewed a lot of things that weddings "normally" have, and just spent on the things that we both wanted. I liked some parts of the planning and not others, but I definitely heaved a sigh of relief once it was all done.

Basically, I feel like your sentiments are valid and you should really have at least part of a say in this. Does your fiance know that you are this upset and anxious over the whole thing? Does he care that his desire for all these things is causing you so much grief?

[Els]

On 8/19/2023 at 8:25 PM, justwhoiam said:

First of all, traditionally, the couple doesn't put in almost any money. Their respective families do. (I think I only paid for church flowers) So what you're experiencing is just your modern take of being independent and not appreciating any family's involvement. Your stubborness has a price, and you're paying for it. Does it make sense? Probably not.

Bride and groom usually choose everything: what to wear, who to invite, invitation cards, wedding ceremony type and location, type of reception (buffet or multiple-course meal, 2 hours, whole day, whatever), favors if any. Families pay. That's always been the rule. And it still applies.

This doesn't make sense. Traditionally yes, the families pay, but the families also traditionally decide EVERYTHING, from the guest list to the venue, to the spouse that you are going to marry... Expecting to be able to make all the decisions while your parents foot the bill just sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Some families are not going to be willing to pay in 2023, and understandably so. Some families might be willing to pay, but there might be strings attached, and they will definitely want to be making at least some decisions. There might be family drama - family + money is a highly combustible cocktail.

There is no free lunch. The only money we accepted from our parents was for an additional event in our homeland, which was something THEY wanted and planned. And I'm 100% glad we did it that way. Many of my relatives accepted family money, and the family was way too involved in the decision-making for my liking. If we hadn't been able to afford the wedding that we wanted, we would just have cut down on more things - it's called being responsible, independent adults.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Els

[BettyDraper]

@Els

I'm sorry for the late response. I haven't been on LS lately. 

I've been speaking with my loved ones and my former therapist about this issue. I've come to understand why a wedding is so important to my fiance.

He just wants to celebrate our love in an extravagant way because he never thought that he would ever get married. I don't want to rob him of this experience. 

We'll be receiving financial assistance from our parents in the form of cash wedding gifts. We've still budgeted for what we can afford on our own. 

I've been leaning into my faith and using meditation to quell my anxiety. 

[Gaeta]

@BettyDraper: I am glad you came to that decision. It's a huge effort on your part and it will be over after a few hours but it will build a life time of beautiful memories for him. That is a true act of love on your part. 

[BettyDraper]

On 8/19/2023 at 4:25 AM, justwhoiam said:

I've just read your posts, Betty.

It seems like you're approaching your upcoming wedding on the wrong foot.

First of all, traditionally, the couple doesn't put in almost any money. Their respective families do. (I think I only paid for church flowers) So what you're experiencing is just your modern take of being independent and not appreciating any family's involvement. Your stubborness has a price, and you're paying for it. Does it make sense? Probably not.

Bride and groom usually choose everything: what to wear, who to invite, invitation cards, wedding ceremony type and location, type of reception (buffet or multiple-course meal, 2 hours, whole day, whatever), favors if any. Families pay. That's always been the rule. And it still applies.

If the invitees are decent enough (and I'm assuming they are on his side), they will bring gifts or give you money as their present. And/or you could go to a travel agency and have your bridal registry there (that's a very modern thing to do). That way, you'd be able to splurge a bit, because if you're going to pay for it, you'll definitely go cheaper while choosing hotels, to save money.

As I was just starting out with everything, my bridal registry was at a housewares local store. I paid for my honeymoon myself (50/50 with him), and as I wanted nice places, I only had one week away instead of two in a relatively small fairytale European country. It was great.

You can let some selected people know about the travel agency, so that they can put money in it and you'll have your honeymoon paid for. And it will be the trip you want. He can even drop the hint, if he wants to, that he'd rather have money. Generally speaking, asking for money is always frowned upon. But I guess that'd be his way of compromising a bit.

When they couple feels like raising some extra money during the party, the friends will usually arrange for that to happen. They can collect some $ bills from guests and roll them in toilet paper that the couple will then unroll... that's meant to help them out in their new life together. And/or he can have his tie cut so that each of the guests can have a small bit of it as a souvenir of the day for a minimum amount ($10 or more). How many guests are we talking about? I had around 100, and they were mostly my guests. His family was less than 10 people.

No couple should ever get in debt for a wedding!

Also, just know that you can send invitation cards for just the wedding, and others for wedding + reception. Etiquette says that anyone receiving an invitation should give a present, even if they're not attending. So I had small presents from neighbors too.

Now, about the reception. Don't be passive letting him decide everything. I'm like you as I don't like being at the center of attention and being in photographs. Pick a photographer who can include a dvd in the price and has lots of patience to let you pick pics, effects and music. And who will give you all the original pictures full size. Then let him/her know that you hate posing and being in pics, so that he knows what to do. You can spend time alone with the groom, away from the crowd. That's expected as they all know there's a photo shoot going on. So when you feel you need to get away or get out, just tell your new hubby and flee for a bit.

I didn't want any dance, I didn't have a dj. The location could play background music, so that's what we had. But the location had a park, and a small playground where kids could play. There were outdoor swinging benches with canopies. There was an arch all covered with flowers. A small country wagon, a well and a nice fountain. All nice features where we all could take pictures. People could stroll, and have a nice time.

For an extra memory, you could surprise him with something you will arrange for him. You can ask all his family to participate in a Vidday (look it up online) for your wedding, telling everyone to keep it a secret. They will upload their video and it'll be some awesome memory.

I wouldn't have hired a wedding planner, to save money. You know, they don't work for free, they're usually expensive. I prefer going simple

Hey I just saw this post now. I'm sorry that I didn't respond earlier.

I think you have many misconceptions about wedding planning. I'm only saying that because you have made many incorrect statements.

Everyone knows that planners are not free. Not every planner is expensive though. Hiring a planner makes the wedding cheaper because they have connections with vendors. This results in much lower prices. It doesn't sound like you were aware of that piece of common knowledge. 

When couples are not in their twenties, the tradition of parents paying for weddings is often not observed. Parents paying for weddings also depends on cultural traditions. Not every parent has the means or the desire to help with wedding costs either. We will receive money from our parents as wedding gifts but we are not sure of the amounts. These gifts will be given after the wedding. Our parents have not offered to pay for our wedding and it's rude to ask them to do so. Parents often want to choose aspects of weddings they are paying for. If it's their money, they have the right to decide how it is spent and many parents will enforce that.

I would never invite guests to the wedding and not the reception. My fiance and I would invite our guests to the whole event or just not invite them. We wouldn't invite guests just to receive gifts either. We wouldn't dream of collecting cash from our guests at the reception and putting it into a toilet paper roll. That's very tacky in our eyes.

I don't want a dance but our families certainly do. We will have a DJ for that reason.  I do like your idea about fleeing the wedding for breaks. Maybe I can run away after I say my vows.

 

[BettyDraper]

On 8/22/2023 at 9:23 AM, Els said:

This doesn't make sense. Traditionally yes, the families pay, but the families also traditionally decide EVERYTHING, from the guest list to the venue, to the spouse that you are going to marry... Expecting to be able to make all the decisions while your parents foot the bill just sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Some families are not going to be willing to pay in 2023, and understandably so. Some families might be willing to pay, but there might be strings attached, and they will definitely want to be making at least some decisions. There might be family drama - family + money is a highly combustible cocktail.

There is no free lunch. The only money we accepted from our parents was for an additional event in our homeland, which was something THEY wanted and planned. And I'm 100% glad we did it that way. Many of my relatives accepted family money, and the family was way too involved in the decision-making for my liking. If we hadn't been able to afford the wedding that we wanted, we would just have cut down on more things - it's called being responsible, independent adults.

Exactly. I have never heard of parents paying for everything and the couple being able to choose every aspect of the wedding. Can't have it both ways! 

My fiance and I are in our late thirties and early forties respectively. We are much too old to expect our parents to pay for a our wedding. It's not like we're kids in our mid twenties. 

The first time I married, my parents were demanding that I have a huge wedding which they would plan. That wasn't what I wanted so my husband and I eloped. 

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, BettyDraper said:

Exactly. I have never heard of parents paying for everything and the couple being able to choose every aspect of the wedding. Can't have it both ways! 

My fiance and I are in our late thirties and early forties respectively. We are much too old to expect our parents to pay for a our wedding. It's not like we're kids in our mid twenties. 

The first time I married, my parents were demanding that I have a huge wedding which they would plan. That wasn't what I wanted so my husband and I eloped. 

And then there's the fact that some families are living paycheck to paycheck and couldn't afford to pay even if they wanted to.   Reality must always override tradition

Edited September 17, 2023 by basil67