Muznomer Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 This is a long post but please bear with me… We both work abroad, met via social groups during covid. We became close as friends talking about our home life (travel ban to our home country). I am divorced with children whilst he is long term married with children. I was dating - nothing serious and would often share my hilarious experiences with him. Anyway fast forward - we were alone and he hugged and then cuddled me for ages. Tbh I was very surprised as he’d never talked disparagingly about his marriage or his wife. Previously to this he had made some nice comments about me but nothing sleazy. I saw him as a nice guy and friend. After that episode I fell poorly, he ended up taking care of me & that’s when he told me how he felt about me. I don’t want to go into more details as it will give away too much but suffice to say we have been together for two years now. We do all the mundane things together as one would as a couple. just to clarify at the outset - once we had fallen in love - he referred to his wife as his forever person - I have never asked about the state of his marriage nor has he said anything bad other than once when he was drunk that they haven’t had sex in at least 3/4 years due to medical issues. we had agreed that once we left to return home we would break up - I’ve now been home 6 months but that hasn’t happened. We are still in contact daily texting - video chats etc. the only time we don’t communicate is when he travel a home. we have lived together away from our homes and I really don’t know what I’m doing. I love this man very much as he does me. I’ve even questioned him why he is doing this & he tells me he loves me and doesn’t want me out of his life… I can’t talk to anyone as i know it will backfire hugely - we do see other friends in a group but none know of us being together although they know we are very close. just some understanding and advice would be welcome - we did come close to breaking up when his family came to visit and I just wanted to end it but one look at him and I couldn’t do it. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 What do you want/hope to accomplish here? I think that's what you need to ask yourself. If his wife is his "forever person" (read: she is his "family") then he's unlikely to voluntarily leave her. It seems he's been clear about that + from everything I read here the chance of him leaving her (unless she insists on divorce at some point) is low. You are, to a certain extent, "filling in the gaps" of what is missing from his marriage, which makes it easier for him to continue in it. So, the upshot is that you can either continue this long distance affair or break things off. If you're content with things as they stand, you could continue the affair. If you want a partner you can fully have, then consider that your feelings for him almost certainly interfere with you finding/bonding with a full, open partner. So, you need to "pick your poison" here. Continue or break it off. Keep in mind that if his wife finds out about your communication and the extent of your relationship, she will almost certainly demand he end all contact with you as a condition of staying together. So, you should probably mentally prepare yourself for things to abruptly end should that occur. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 20, 2023 Author Share Posted June 20, 2023 1 hour ago, mark clemson said: What do you want/hope to accomplish here? I think that's what you need to ask yourself. If his wife is his "forever person" (read: she is his "family") then he's unlikely to voluntarily leave her. It seems he's been clear about that + from everything I read here the chance of him leaving her (unless she insists on divorce at some point) is low. You are, to a certain extent, "filling in the gaps" of what is missing from his marriage, which makes it easier for him to continue in it. So, the upshot is that you can either continue this long distance affair or break things off. If you're content with things as they stand, you could continue the affair. If you want a partner you can fully have, then consider that your feelings for him almost certainly interfere with you finding/bonding with a full, open partner. So, you need to "pick your poison" here. Continue or break it off. Keep in mind that if his wife finds out about your communication and the extent of your relationship, she will almost certainly demand he end all contact with you as a condition of staying together. So, you should probably mentally prepare yourself for things to abruptly end should that occur. There are times I want more, I have had some awful relationships and my marriage was horrendous. This is the first time I’ve been in a relationship where I’ve been treated with love, care and respect. He has been there for me when things have gotten very bad - given me great advice, helped me with employment, supported me when I’ve needed a shoulder to cry on… i have done the same for him too so it’s not one-sided. As for him divorcing, I wouldn’t ask not put pressure on him to do so - that would have to be his decision. im trying to understand why I love him so much… Link to post Share on other sites
glows Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 He was there for you as a support system when you needed it most. I’m assuming that was during your divorce? There’s going to be some bond there but I wouldn’t read into it too far. He is married with other commitments so as far and love, care and respect you’re further down the list and not a top priority. If he had to choose there’s a good chance he wouldn’t choose you or he’d be a complete mess, torn between two lives. As mentioned above if you’re fine with that then carry on. Otherwise it’s probably best to give yourself a hard shake and be realistic this isn’t going anywhere. Out of curiosity if he did divorce his wife (slim chance here) would you care to go through the entire process, the destruction and chaos of a family divided and a person in limbo while divorce proceedings are taking place? This might be a reality check: reality vs the fantasy of an affair. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Muznomer said: This is the first time I’ve been in a relationship where I’ve been treated with love, care and respect. im trying to understand why I love him so much… That would probably have a lot to do with it. We only have some many major relationships in our lives, and it sounds like you were mostly in bad ones. So, by the standard you are judging by, this is pretty good. However, it bears repeating as @glows pointed out, this isn't likely to "advance" into more. So, you'll have to decide if you're content with this. If you are, you are. It's your life. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Muznomer said: I’ve even questioned him why he is doing this & he tells me he loves me and doesn’t want me out of his life… Of course, he doesn’t want you out of his life. He wants things exactly as they are… he has his wife, and then he has a work wife. Best of both worlds - for him. How’s it working for you? 8 hours ago, Muznomer said: we have lived together away from our homes I never have been able to understand how a woman can literally play “house” with a man while ignoring the obvious, that has another wife at home. Do you not want that for yourself? Do you not want more for yourself? Because, “more” with this man is not an option. He’s told you as much - his wife is his “forever person.” ‘Lucky’ woman. I say that sarcastically because I wonder if she would still chose him as her “forever person” if she knew the truth. A man capable of this kind of deception - literally involved in two simultaneous relationships - is a special kind of man… and I don’t say that as a compliment. 8 hours ago, Muznomer said: We do all the mundane things together as one would as a couple. Let’s not forget, he does all these same “mundane” things with his wife. And - she shares his name, his wife, his children, his family, friends, finances, vacations, I could go on… The distance has allowed you the luxury of creating your own fantasy… you have been living in your own happy, albeit delusional, little bubble… It is the ultimate fantasy. You are both essentially playing make-believe. 8 hours ago, Muznomer said: we did come close to breaking up when his family came to visit and I just wanted to end it but one look at him and I couldn’t do it. There is no easy way to end it. There is no way to avoid the pain of ending any relationship. You currently live with the pain of knowing that you want what you can’t really have… And still, the pain of ending the relationship is more than the pain of continuing as you have been - Until that changes, things will continue as they have been… Edited June 20, 2023 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Muznomer said: This is the first time I’ve been in a relationship where I’ve been treated with love, care and respect. While I don’t dismiss your experience of this relationship, by it’s very nature, an affair is not a respectful relationship. The sad truth is, you have had such poor relationships in the past that this ultimately one-sided and unhealthy relationship feels like it’s the best you’ve ever had. Unfortunately, you have mistaken his kindness and compassion for love and commitment. It’s neither. When he tells you that his wife is his “forever person,” that is a very hurtful thing to say to someone who you profess to “love” - to someone who he knows has feelings of love for him in return. The fact that he would ask you to involve yourself in a relationship that HE KNOWS is always going to leave you wanting more is a very selfish and unloving thing to do, in my humble opinion. He knows that you will never have the things that he will not give up - the love and stability of his spouse and his family, a legitimate relationship that does not need to be hidden… IF he truly loved, cared, and respected you he would want the absolute best for you - even if that meant that he did not get what he wanted. He would not selfishly ask you to sacrifice yourself, your future happiness, in this way. He would want for you all the benefits that he enjoys in his own marriage. If he loves you more than he loves himself, he show you the respect and dignity to walk away… Edited June 20, 2023 by BaileyB 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 You're a crutch that enables him to stay exactly where he is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JTSW Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 19 hours ago, Muznomer said: he referred to his wife as his forever person Telling you loud and clear that he will NEVER leave her or their children. 19 hours ago, Muznomer said: they haven’t had sex in at least 3/4 years Boom! That's all this is for him. Sex! You are just giving him what his wife isn't. 19 hours ago, Muznomer said: he tells me he loves me and doesn’t want me out of his life… Because he doesn't want to lose the sex. Nothing more. Telling you he loves you is just his way of keeping you invested. You are not a couple. You are the other woman, a secret, who will never have him the way you want. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 14 hours ago, glows said: He was there for you as a support system when you needed it most. I’m assuming that was during your divorce? There’s going to be some bond there but I wouldn’t read into it too far. He is married with other commitments so as far and love, care and respect you’re further down the list and not a top priority. If he had to choose there’s a good chance he wouldn’t choose you or he’d be a complete mess, torn between two lives. As mentioned above if you’re fine with that then carry on. Otherwise it’s probably best to give yourself a hard shake and be realistic this isn’t going anywhere. Out of curiosity if he did divorce his wife (slim chance here) would you care to go through the entire process, the destruction and chaos of a family divided and a person in limbo while divorce proceedings are taking place? This might be a reality check: reality vs the fantasy of an affair. I was divorced long before I met him and when we first met through the social group he told me the first conversation we ever had was about the very strict rules I had in place about who I was willing to allow into my life. It was during covid that we became close (& believe me I had always friend zoned him - we as a group would always comment on what a good husband he was). As for him ever divorcing - I would support him through it - irrespective of our “relationship”. He us the product of divorce and I don’t think he would put his children through the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 12 hours ago, BaileyB said: Of course, he doesn’t want you out of his life. He wants things exactly as they are… he has his wife, and then he has a work wife. Best of both worlds - for him. How’s it working for you? I never have been able to understand how a woman can literally play “house” with a man while ignoring the obvious, that has another wife at home. Do you not want that for yourself? Do you not want more for yourself? Because, “more” with this man is not an option. He’s told you as much - his wife is his “forever person.” ‘Lucky’ woman. I say that sarcastically because I wonder if she would still chose him as her “forever person” if she knew the truth. A man capable of this kind of deception - literally involved in two simultaneous relationships - is a special kind of man… and I don’t say that as a compliment. Let’s not forget, he does all these same “mundane” things with his wife. And - she shares his name, his wife, his children, his family, friends, finances, vacations, I could go on… The distance has allowed you the luxury of creating your own fantasy… you have been living in your own happy, albeit delusional, little bubble… It is the ultimate fantasy. You are both essentially playing make-believe. There is no easy way to end it. There is no way to avoid the pain of ending any relationship. You currently live with the pain of knowing that you want what you can’t really have… And still, the pain of ending the relationship is more than the pain of continuing as you have been - Until that changes, things will continue as they have been… If it had been working well I wouldn’t be searching for understanding here… in my defence I never expected someone like him to be interested in me (different backgrounds etc) or for it to carry on for so long or become so intense. We have spoken about this to some extent and yes we are living in this deluded bubble. I think what has surprised me more is that he has continued to keep in contact with me even though we are no longer together in one location. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 11 hours ago, BaileyB said: While I don’t dismiss your experience of this relationship, by it’s very nature, an affair is not a respectful relationship. The sad truth is, you have had such poor relationships in the past that this ultimately one-sided and unhealthy relationship feels like it’s the best you’ve ever had. Unfortunately, you have mistaken his kindness and compassion for love and commitment. It’s neither. When he tells you that his wife is his “forever person,” that is a very hurtful thing to say to someone who you profess to “love” - to someone who he knows has feelings of love for him in return. The fact that he would ask you to involve yourself in a relationship that HE KNOWS is always going to leave you wanting more is a very selfish and unloving thing to do, in my humble opinion. He knows that you will never have the things that he will not give up - the love and stability of his spouse and his family, a legitimate relationship that does not need to be hidden… IF he truly loved, cared, and respected you he would want the absolute best for you - even if that meant that he did not get what he wanted. He would not selfishly ask you to sacrifice yourself, your future happiness, in this way. He would want for you all the benefits that he enjoys in his own marriage. If he loves you more than he loves himself, he show you the respect and dignity to walk away… He will never walk away- we have spoken about this - it would have to be me & I don’t know if I have the mental and emotional strength to do this without breaking myself Link to post Share on other sites
JTSW Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Muznomer said: He will never walk away- we have spoken about this - it would have to be me & I don’t know if I have the mental and emotional strength to do this without breaking myself You do have the strength, I can see that. I can see that you are a strong woman and can do this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, JTSW said: Telling you loud and clear that he will NEVER leave her or their children. Boom! That's all this is for him. Sex! You are just giving him what his wife isn't. Because he doesn't want to lose the sex. Nothing more. Telling you he loves you is just his way of keeping you invested. You are not a couple. You are the other woman, a secret, who will never have him the way you want. I wish it were just about sex as that hasn’t been the focus of our relationship- in fact it’s not a high priority for him. He wants more of companionship, love, affection and having me around him. Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, Muznomer said: .Not how I saw my life going Well yes, unfortunately. No one thinks to themselves "my dream is to be someone's mistress one day", but unfortunately life happens and people end up or fall into bad situations at vulnerable times. Which seems to be what happened to you. All you can do is pull back on depending on him this much and try to rebuild your life without him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Muznomer said: we as a group would always comment on what a good husband he was Your definition of “good husband” is obviously different than mine. What if his wife? Does she factor into your decision making at all here or have you conveniently written her out of the script? 3 minutes ago, Muznomer said: He will never walk away- we have spoken about this - it would have to be me & I don’t know if I have the mental and emotional strength to do this without breaking myself With kindness, I really feel for you because you are involved in a very unhealthy relationship and you don’t have any idea how unhealthy it is for you… like a woman abused by her partner, you have somehow convinced yourself that this codependent, one-sided, unhealthy relationship is “love.” 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, JTSW said: You do have the strength, I can see that. I can see that you are a strong woman and can do this. I can see that she has no intention of ending it. She doesn’t believe she can do it - and if she doesn’t believe it, she’s right. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Muznomer said: He will never walk away He will never walk away from you? Or from his wife? Or, he wants both? I would advise you not to take this as a compliment - it’s not. ‘He “loves” me so much that he can never let me go.’ I’m sorry, but no. Please. If he loved you, he would do you the kindness of ending it. He would not ask you to compromise yourself in this way. If he loved his wife, he would not be betraying her in this way. The only person that he loves is himself - and that’s why he “can’t let you go.” Men who have affairs like this tend to be selfish and conflict avoidant men - that’s exactly why he can never end it - with either woman. The easy thing to do is to cheat. And the easy thing to do is to put the onus on you - if this is ever going to end, if either of you are ever going to do right by his wife, it’s going to have to be you. Please. 🙄 Edited June 21, 2023 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Muznomer said: I wish it were just about sex as that hasn’t been the focus of our relationship- in fact it’s not a high priority for him. He wants more of companionship, love, affection and having me around him. Doesn’t he have that with his wife? I would assume that’s why he calls her his “forever person.” I mean, to me, that says he has great affection for her. That, to me, says that he stays for more than the children or because it’s financially beneficial to stay in his marriage… Edited June 21, 2023 by BaileyB 2 Link to post Share on other sites
JTSW Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, Muznomer said: I wish it were just about sex as that hasn’t been the focus of our relationship- in fact it’s not a high priority for him. He wants more of companionship, love, affection and having me around him. You just have to keep reminding yourself that he is married, never leaving his wife and you are just the other woman. Keep saying it like a mantra. Its not a relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Muznomer said: If it had been working well I wouldn’t be searching for understanding here… What kind of understanding are you searching for? I ask sincerely, were you hoping to commiserate with others in a similar position? Were you looking for validation? Or are you looking for some support to end this affair? Because, if you are looking for support to end this affair, this is a good place to post. However, if you are looking for someone to commiserate - there are other websites for women in affairs who have no intention of leaving. Not that I think you should leave, I just mention it because there are other websites that are more pro-affair. I’m sorry if the posts so far haven’t felt like “understanding.” The reality is, you are in a pretty difficult and untenable situation - even if it doesn’t feel that way right now. People here who have experienced similar know, this doesn’t get better… You either find a way to accept the situation as it is now because he has told you in as many words that he has no intention of divorce or you find a way to let go. Most people have a hard time staying in the situation as it is now - not many of us are able to dissociate from our feelings and compartmentalize a relationship such as this in a way that is healthy or sustainable long term. It’s a torturous way to live, which is why I say it’s hurtful for him to ask this of you. It’s very unfair that he would put the responsibility or the burden of ending this relationship on you. Edited June 21, 2023 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 44 minutes ago, BaileyB said: Doesn’t he have that with his wife? I would assume that’s why he calls her his “forever person.” I mean, to me, that says he has great affection for her. That, to me, says that he stays for more than the children or because it’s financially beneficial to stay in his marriage… I never bring her up nor do I want to hear horrible things about her. I feel sorry and ashamed to be in this situation and in no way do I want her to know or be hurt. I know she wouldn’t forgive him Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Muznomer said: I never bring her up nor do I want to hear horrible things about her. I feel sorry and ashamed to be in this situation and in no way do I want her to know or be hurt. I know she wouldn’t forgive him With kindness, does it not hurt her if she doesn’t know that he is sneaking around behind her back? Is ignorance truly bliss? He’s playing the “if this is going to end, it’s going to have to be you that ends it” game… and you are playing the “if his wife is going to be hurt by this, it’s his responsibility card because he’s the one who started this and he’s the one who stays in contact” game… And, what is your obligation here? By your comment, it would seem that you have adopted the “head in the sand” approach to this moral and ethical dilemma - “if I just never bring her up and we don’t ever talk about her, it’s fine.” I would kindly suggest that this is how you manage to make it ok with yourself that you have set up house with another woman’s problem - if I just avoid talking about her it will be fine. If she is hurt by his behavior, that is his fault. I would gently ask, as a woman and as a human being, what’s your responsibility here? If you are complicit in hurting this woman, if you drove the get away car after he robbed the bank, does that not also make you responsible? Edited June 21, 2023 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
JTSW Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, Muznomer said: I never bring her up nor do I want to hear horrible things about her. I feel sorry and ashamed to be in this situation and in no way do I want her to know or be hurt. I know she wouldn’t forgive him You're a good person, and you know what you have to do. For everyone's sake. Yours, hers and her children. End it. If she found out, you would be the one painted as the evil one that tried to steal her husband. Which you are not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Muznomer Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, BaileyB said: What kind of understanding are you searching for? I ask sincerely, were you hoping to commiserate with others in a similar position? Were you looking for validation? Or are you looking for some support to end this affair? Because, if you are looking for support to end this affair, this is a good place to post. However, if you are looking for someone to commiserate - there are other websites for women in affairs who have no intention of leaving. Not that I think you should leave, I just mention it because there are other websites that are more pro-affair. I’m sorry if the posts so far haven’t felt like “understanding.” The reality is, you are in a pretty difficult and untenable situation - even if it doesn’t feel that way right now. People here who have experienced similar know, this doesn’t get better… You either find a way to accept the situation as it is now because he has told you in as many words that he has no intention of divorce or you find a way to let go. Most people have a hard time staying in the situation as it is now - not many of us are able to dissociate from our feelings and compartmentalize a relationship such as this in a way that is healthy or sustainable long term. It’s a torturous way to live, which is why I say it’s hurtful for him to ask this of you. It’s very unfair that he would put the responsibility or the burden of ending this relationship on you. I’m not looking for “pro-affair” and am appreciative of everyone who has posted. Yes it’s hard hitting but I think I need to hear these things. I haven’t dated anyone else since he has been in the picture and I can honestly say there have been 5/6 men interested in me - all openly. He isn’t a “looker” far from it, but the way he treats me has kept me hooked . i have asked him why he carries on seeing me and how he keeps the two relationships going - his response is he buries the guilt deep down, compartmentalising and refuses to think about it. It’s a “shitty” situation we are all in but he wants us both - not fair on me I agree Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts