Money, what to expect?

[MsMamma]

I am trying to get my head around money in my 3 yr relationship with my partner. 

To put it bluntly, he earns much less than me. And he is horrible with money management. We have separate accounts and I have no plans on sharing an account with him. 

So what is reasonable in terms of the bills and sharing costs? 

Here's where we are at: 

My 2 children live with us, so I expect to pay more for food. We have a bigger house because of my kids, therefore higher rent. He has maintained from the start that he will pay half the rent, power and water bill. And he hasn't missed a payment yet. 

He has one child who visits for the holidays and she has her own room here with us. 

I have purchased all of the furniture in the house. Every bedroom, the lounge, white goods etc. I cover the food bill for all of us, I figure because my kids are here I should cover more. 

The imbalance in our wages bothers me however as I feel like he is always making suggestions about what I could buy for the house... new bbq, outdoor stuff.  And his list of wants is endless. He never seems to have intention to contribute to any of this, and if i just bought everything he continually wants then I'd also have no money. When we go out anywhere I always pay for it all. He will buy the drinks sometimes.  

I had to buy a second car because he just started using my car and then it wasn't available to me.... he kept jumping from job to job and wasn't getting anywhere financially. So I gave him a loan and set him up with his own gardening business. I bought a van and a trailer for him. He initially did start paying me back for it but this stopped and I don't think I'll ever see the rest. He initially was running it really well and growing it... to the point where he had two staff working for him. This last week it became apparent that the business makes no money. He didn't have enough to pay his staff. And I notice he's been sitting at home while these two guys work. 

Today I saw a nice bed as his daughters room needs a new bed. It is our spare room when she's not here. He had this very clear expectation that I would buy the bed. And then when we were in town later he spent the rest of his cash on play station games. 

 

Am I just crazy for expecting more on a financial level? I mean I guess you could say if I were a male and he the female this situation arises all the time... but I feel very frustrated and used by this. I feel like I've been fair by covering as much as I can because my kids live here... but it makes me feel uneasy that our financial future seems to rest on me. 

 

Thoughts??

 

 

[glows]

You both have to communicate and be clear about what you can afford as a couple. It’s not he pays she pays but we pay and how do we get to that level where we have enough savings for rainy days plus enough for necessities like food. Go through your finances together and look for openness and willingness to discuss. If he’s guarded and unwilling to share or negotiate this way he is not a keeper. 

[MsMamma]

It didn't used to bother me but as time has gone on I feel like it's become an 'us' thing financially to evolving to an expectation that I'll just cover everything and loan him money when he has nothing left. The conversations we've had he's basically said hes always been terrible with money and spent every dollar he has... and really there's nothing in that statement that suggests he's ever going to try and do better. 

I've always been a planner and had a budget. I'm still generous with what I buy but I make sure I'm sensible with spending within what I can afford, as well as ensuring the future is still being put toward. 

If he was always like this should I be expecting change, or should I be accepting of him being how he is? It all feels rather burdensome at the moment... I'm trying to plan for at some stage buying our own home, and that dream is all on me.

[Wiseman2]

How long have you lived together? All you can do is separate your finances much more. Keep in household at 50-50 with the exception of food for your children and otherwise separately buy what you want. For example don't buy his child furniture and stop lending him money and enabling his financial carelessness.

He can't "use" you if you stop giving him money, vehicles, businesses and stop paying paying his way. Why not spend your money saving for your children's future? Why not open college funds and trust funds for them rather than squandering money on this man?

Edited June 24, 2023 by Wiseman2

[ShyViolet]

No one is forcing you to buy him a van, to buy a new bed for his daughter, to loan him money, to pay the bill every time you two go out.  These are all things you chose to do.  Learn to say NO.  The only reason that he has developed this "expectation" as you put it, is because you have allowed this to continue for so long.

If he throws a fit over you no longer allowing him to take advantage of you financially, then you need to seriously rethink this relationship.

[glows]

8 hours ago, MsMamma said:

It didn't used to bother me but as time has gone on I feel like it's become an 'us' thing financially to evolving to an expectation that I'll just cover everything and loan him money when he has nothing left. The conversations we've had he's basically said hes always been terrible with money and spent every dollar he has... and really there's nothing in that statement that suggests he's ever going to try and do better. 

I've always been a planner and had a budget. I'm still generous with what I buy but I make sure I'm sensible with spending within what I can afford, as well as ensuring the future is still being put toward. 

If he was always like this should I be expecting change, or should I be accepting of him being how he is? It all feels rather burdensome at the moment... I'm trying to plan for at some stage buying our own home, and that dream is all on me.

You’re enabling his behaviour if you disagree with the way he manages money. You can’t have one and the other. Buy him things and agree to do/buy what he asks and then turn around and ask him to rethink his decisions. You’re teaching the dude to act this way by allowing it and conceding to his requests. Just say no. Tell him you’re not comfortable any longer with this arrangement and mention your long term goals such as buying a house. See how he responds over, say, 2 months, 6 months and give yourself a timeline. If things don’t improve cut your losses and move on. 

We cannot force people to be what we want. 3 years is long enough to see who he is as a man/person/partner.

[Els]

Why did you keep paying for all those things when you are clearly harbouring resentment for it? Like, you literally gave him your car and a loan, lol. If you want a clearer financial separation, you need to stop sending mixed messages.

 

[MsMamma]

Thanks I think you are all right. 

 

I've been conflicted about my role financially because I wasn't sure if I were being sexist and expecting the 'man to provide'. I also know in many relationships where the man earns more, he will cover a lot more of the costs for the woman. I guess that's usually because she's raising their kids though which is not the case with us!

 

I need to have a serious think about where this is going. 

[Wiseman2]

15 minutes ago, MsMamma said:

I need to have a serious think about where this is going. 

Great insight. While you are reflecting, remove his name from all accounts, assets, credit cards etc. and change the passwords.

Check your credit score. Go to the bank and sever all financial ties. Set up accounts in your children's names. Set up retirement accounts. Redirect all money squandered on his ineptitude and entitlement to useful accounts for your and your children's future.

You probably won't recover the money you wasted so far as it may be construed as gifts. 

Research the correct legal process to remove him from your home. This has nothing to do with egalitarian gender roles. He's a lazy moocher draining resources you'll need for your children and your future. 

[glows]

^ Agreed (OP, your last post). It’s fine if you make more but this long ceased being a relationship of two similar minded people. And it’s not a case of a rough patch or transition period where let’s say a partner is inbetween jobs or is going back to school and little to no income. The guy doesn’t even manage what he has in an appropriate way.

The more reasonable approach would be to chat with you and discuss any additional funds and see what you both need as a couple or family. And vice versa. You be open and loop him in when the budget for the week or month is low. Heads up would be nice since he seems completely clueless financially. Instead he purchases entertainment/games for what appears as exclusive enjoyment for himself only? Do you also play those games? Was there ever an agreement that a set amount of extra cash goes to game purchases? 

If the relationship continues more communication is needed. You sound like you gave up communicating and that’s also part of the problem. Communicate or this isn’t going anywhere. You’re better off cutting your losses than stagnating like this and being drained of your finances.

Edited June 24, 2023 by glows

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, MsMamma said:

I had to buy a second car because he just started using my car and then it wasn't available to me.... he kept jumping from job to job and wasn't getting anywhere financially. So I gave him a loan and set him up with his own 

Have you ever heard the term "one armed bandit"?

“One-Armed” because of its single lever depicting an arm and “bandit” because of its nature to collect an addicted player's cash leaving him with nothing"

It refers to slot machines and gambling. Just throwing money in with zero return on the investment. That's what this man is. 

Obviously you can't buy love but it may be worthwhile to examine why you're gambling your and your children's future away on this.

Buying your own furniture and food and whatever is fine, but throwing money away on this man isn't.

[MsMamma]

Oh we don't have any shared accounts, credit cards or debts in shared names. 

I was married once and I was financially isolated by my husband spending all of 'our' money because we had a joint account that both our wages went into. I'll never put myself in that position again. I'm still saving and getting ahead, just frustrating that I don't have my partner helping us to get ahead.  It won't be a problem  to say no more and cut it off because I have my accounts to myself. 

 

We've had some big chats today and he's devistated. He has picked up on my 'I've had enough' message and is really emotionally not dealing well at all. I've tried to do it as gently as I can.. because that's who I am. But he knows now and he's apologised many times and has been on the verge of tears saying he's about 3 steps away from being homeless. And he actually is. He has no family here.. we are in Australia and he's English. 

[Weezy1973]

Being on the same page financially is pretty important in a long term relationship. Who makes more is pretty irrelevant as long as you’re both pulling in the same direction. 
 

Strange though that you seem to be attracted to financially irresponsible men. Why do you think that is?

[MsMamma]

I'm a nurturer... its my downfall. I'm a nurse and my whole life has been to care for others and fix their problems.

This one didn't start out like that. This one had it all together... he used to be a state manager. He's confident, affectionate, cheeky, and absolutely love bombed me. I realise now what that was but I didn't at the time. I fell for all of it... he took a redundancy payout from that really good job, spent all the money within the first year and hasn't really properly done anything since. He still is his charming self... but I'm nearing 40 now and it's time to stop dragging a ball and chain. I no longer want a little boy to care for.. I don't even want to share my life with anybody, I am so happy and peaceful on my own doing my thing. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, MsMamma said:

 he knows now and he's apologised many times and has been on the verge of tears saying he's about 3 steps away from being homeless. 

It's great you spoke to him, but it seems his crocodile tears really won't change his behavior. Definitely sever all finances and discontinue supporting or enabling him.

[MsMamma]

Thank you everyone. I've tried forums in the past and always had catty responses. I like you guys.

[basil67]

 

15 hours ago, MsMamma said:

We've had some big chats today and he's devistated. He has picked up on my 'I've had enough' message and is really emotionally not dealing well at all. I've tried to do it as gently as I can.. because that's who I am. But he knows now and he's apologised many times and has been on the verge of tears saying he's about 3 steps away from being homeless. And he actually is. He has no family here.. we are in Australia and he's English. 

As you are in Australia, he will understand the statement "suck it up buttercup" or "tough sh*t".  He can pack his bags and go sleep on a mate's sofa.  If he doesn't have a mate, pay for him to stay in a motel for two weeks, in which time he can find a room in a share household. 

I understand being a carer, but by the very nature of being a carer you need to have strong boundaries...both in your personal and professional life.  At this point, your boundaries with this guy have been pretty much zero, and honestly your lack of boundaries exacerbated the problem.  If you know how to manage your children's expectations, you should be able to put a grown man in his place.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

I wouldn’t pay for two weeks at a hotel - 2 days is enough time for a guy who doesn’t work to find a place to land.

he also needs to give your car back! 

No it's not enough time - they are in Australia.  We are in the midst of a housing crisis and finding rental accommodation is extraordinarily hard even for those who are employed.   Rents are way above what is sustainable for someone on a low income, even in a share house.  Country areas are also in crisis.   A person can't just leave and find somewhere to live in a day or two.  But hopefully he has a mate's couch to crash on.

@MsMamma  Fortunately, we have a labour shortage, so he shouldn't have trouble getting work if he gets off his rear end. 

[Els]

On 6/25/2023 at 7:17 AM, MsMamma said:

I've been conflicted about my role financially because I wasn't sure if I were being sexist and expecting the 'man to provide'. I also know in many relationships where the man earns more, he will cover a lot more of the costs for the woman.

There's no point in hurting yourself to overcompensate for what the rest of society does. What would you say to your brother if you heard that he was just about running himself into the ground doing 90% of the household chores while working full-time, because he's afraid of "being sexist and expecting the woman to do all the household chores"?

I'm glad you've decided to have a talk with him. You're not responsible for providing him with a home. If he has permanent residency in Aus, he'll be eligible for government support if he's truly doing all he can to survive (as long as he's not living with you). If he doesn't, then surely he can just go back to the UK and stay with family there if he becomes "homeless" in Aus?

[MsMamma]

I'll try to cover the questions.. 

When he got his payout he bought a bus that we renovated. We then travelled for 3 months before relocating across australia back to my home town. Yes there is a huge housing crisis here.. the wait list where I am is about 6 months.  We were lucky to get the place we are in currently due the house owner knowing my family. I didn't put any money toward the purchase of or the Reno's of the bus. We both put equally toward our travelling, he had nothing left by the time we arrived and had started to use credit cards. I've always had a good amount of savings and still had money.

We still have the bus so technically he can live in that.. but it's winter and he'd freeze as it has no heating or cooling, he will need to get a house. Yes... aus gets cold. 

He originally got a job at bunnings. He was so excited about this... as he had really burnt out working as a state manager in his previous role. I'd watched him burn out and he had worked HARD. Bunnings seemed simple and easy. But of course for someone who gad worked in management he soon got frustrated with the management. 8 months in he quit to work at a pub. That sucked as it was every weekend working the nightclub. There is no work here in his previous field at all. So I suggested seeing as he's used to management that perhaps he could run his own business. Of course he had nothing to be able to do this... and being that he's a keen gardener I knew he'd love a gardening business. That was the first time I bailed him out. I bought a van and a trailer, loaned him 10k for tools and got him going. He worked so hard at it, he paid me back all but 3k so far. But I havnt seen a dollar for over a year now. 

He was doing really well until the last 6 months where he doesnt seem to be putting in the effort any more. Last week he had a bit of a meltdown saying he couldn't pay his staff as there was no money, because he hadn't done any invoicing for the previous week. The simple answer from me was go and do your invoicing and chase the money!!! I did not lend him anything here... he did actually get after his money, however he paid his staff a couple of days late which I don't think is acceptable. 

So.. he is currently packing up his bus. I havnt made offer of accommodation. I'm guessing if it's too cold here he may have to drive some place warmer if he can afford it. I have no idea what he's going to do with his business as it's all run from our shed. I'll give him some time to work it out. 

 

The suck it up buttercup doesn't work for me. I work on kind principals, it's not necessary to be unkind to people in any circumstance. But I won't be walked all over and taken advantage of forever.

 

 

[basil67]

OK, perhaps leave off the "buttercup"    I only mentioned those phrases because they are a great way to shut down someone who's whining over perfectly reasonable expectations.  I'm kind and patient, but there comes a point where have no tolerance for someone who keeps pushing after I've made myself clear in a respectful manner.

Glad to know he has a bus.  If he gets unemployment benefits, he can plug into a van site.  

[Wiseman2]

43 minutes ago, MsMamma said:

. he is currently packing up his bus. I havnt made offer of accommodation. I'm guessing if it's too cold here he may have to drive some place warmer if he can afford it. I have no idea what he's going to do with his business as it's all run from our shed. I'll give him some time to work it out. 

This seems like a fair solution. The housing and homeless crisis in your area is not your problem. The problem is he's buying and playing video games all day and you have children to support. He also needs to figure out his custody and visitation for his child with his ex. You shouldn't be supporting her either. Open retirement accounts and accounts for your children. Get a CPA to advise you on tax strategies and get help from financial advisors.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Wiseman2

[MsMamma]

I'm guessing this has come to this point because of the success I'm having with my own business.. I'm a nurse by trade but not working in this field currently. I started my own business a year ago and unexpectedly its been wildly successful, far beyond what I could have hoped for. I have worked non stop for this 7 days a week.. was prepared to do whatever it takes. I havnt got here 'easily'.

I think because of my success he has made comparisons and maybe feels like his business isn't worth it... however I do know that he spends every leftover cent he makes so really... how can you maintain that !  

Whatever the case... I feel disrespected that without any discussion he thinks it's okay to slack off and let me cover everything. We are not married, and even if we were I'd expect my partner to contribute no matter what I'm doing. I personally would be too proud to mooch off someone else.. I love providing for myself. Wasn't sure if I were being unreasonable about this and if other couples live off one person's success... but it was just starting to feel like a sole responsibility and a drag. And yes, this takes from my own children. 

He pays child support for his own child, but doesn't cover any extra costs when she's here for the holidays. My kids are 16 and 11, and pretty good kids. His daughter is 13 and a handful, I'm worried she's going to get pregnant. Tried to talk to him about getting her on contraception and he seems to think that's her mother's responsibility... her mother has 6 kids to 3 different dads. She won't do this!!

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, MsMamma said:

.. her mother has 6 kids to 3 different dads. 

Can he go live with her? His child is his and her mother's sole responsibly, financially and as far as healthcare, education, housing etc. If he just started coasting on easy street because your business was doing well, that tells you all you need to know.

[MsMamma]

No his ex is now married, and she absolutely hates my partner. That would be a flat out no!