Pushed Her Away - Can't Come to Terms With it

[helloladies21]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's doubtful you'll hear from her. But at least you're dating again. Perhaps don't probe women for their past sexual history because you seem to have difficulty handling it, whether they're just a "distraction" or someone you care about.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Over the past six and a half years since my divorce, I've dated a lot of women. They don't always come back, but I have noticed, that once feelings progress to a certain level, most of them come back at least once. One girl in 2018 took over three months after we split. Another in 2019 took maybe a good four or five months. One in 2020 took two and a half months. I reconnected with an ex of mine a couple of months ago after a year and a half! I wouldn't say these ended on the best of terms either.

And I can't say it enough times: I have no problem knowing about my date's sexual history. That is not what caused the issue. Just the opposite. It was holding the information back that caused the issue. I want to know the truth.

And I didn't probe for the information anyway. It just came up in conversation. I wrote all of this in a post above.

[helloladies21]

43 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

I'm confused about why your woman should be expected to reveal her past sex life to you, you're not in an actual relationship so why do you think she owed you this? Even if you were in a relationship, she still wouldn't have an obligation to disclose her past sex life because it's her business.

Becuase she has an ongoing relationship with the couple and arranged for me to spend an entire eveing with them. She even agreed that there are situations she would want to know about with me. If I had a friend who was a girl who I had slept with in the past and arranged a night out between all of us, she would have wanted to know. Are both of us incorrect? We decide our own moral compass and the two of ours are essentially the same. She just didn't think the same rules should apply to her. It's a double standard and it's hypocritical. Unacceptable. I have no regret calling her out for this behavior. She was wrong not to tell me and she was wrong not to apologize for it.

48 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

You feel like you could do better, (translation, you think she's not good enough for you), so you avoid commitment, yet you appear to be jealous of a past lover.

This is a complete misread. Jealousy is not was emotion I felt. I'm upset about the lack of transparency and the failure to own up to it. That's all.

49 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

The thing you seem to be most upset about is that she blocked you, effectively making her the one that ended it

I am not so juvenile. That has nothing to do with it.

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

.I'm sure it was a culmination of all the issues I caused for her. A person can get rejected only so many times. And she has a therapist, who, I am certain, told her to cut contact with me. 

She may have come to her own conclusion about that. You probably didn't "cause issues" for her.She just had enough and blocked you.

You had an argument and she dumped you.  Happens all the time.  You weren't really around long enough or important enough in her life to create any "issues" for her so don't worry about that.

Interesting it's 3 months later and she's probably happily moved on and you still seem to be stuck in "the one that got away" syndrome. Maybe reflect what that is all about? 

[Alpacalia]

But you guys, from the sounds of it, were just sexually exclusive. I could understand this being a concern in an established relationship or marriage, where you are both in it for the long haul, but at this point it seems a little premature even for your level of commitment. Even still, she's not obligated to tell you about her past sexual episodes, especially if they are outside of the exclusive relationship you two share.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Alpacalia

[helloladies21]

52 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

If the woman you were dating had been more open and transparent about her past experiences with this woman sooner, would it have changed how you felt? Sure, perhaps knowing the full truth would have helped you to be better informed. You could have made a more informed decision with full knowledge of the situation.

Yes that's precisely my position.

52 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I'm also curious how your perspective might shift if you knew it was a man instead of a woman that she had an intimate past experience with.

I have actually been presented with this situation many times. It wouldn't have made a difference. One of my exes would tell me who she dated/slept with (half of the city lol) each and every time and I respected her for it. She had nothing to hide and it actually put my mind at ease.

55 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Unfortunately you can't control how a partner discloses their past. Unless you have a specific agreement or ask the right questions, it's difficult to know what someone may or may not have done in the past.

Now this is it. But what happens when one person says they would like to know about the other person's dating history, but doesn't live by that same rule? That's what happened here. That's what I don't like. And even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she should have known, but didn't, failing to own up to it and saying "I was wrong. I won't do it next time." Doesn't sit well with me. We can't have different rules for us when we have the same morals on an issue. It doesn't make sense.

[helloladies21]

6 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

But you guys, from the sounds of it, were just sexually exclusive. I could understand this being a concern in an established relationship or marriage, where you are both in it for the long haul, but at this point it seems a little premature even for your level of commitment. Even still, she's not obligated to tell you about her past sexual episodes, especially if they are outside of the exclusive relationship you two share.

So then she was also wrong to tell me that she would have wanted to know if I were to have a drink with someone I had dated? Or if I were in a group of friends and one of them was someone I had some kind of prior relationship with? The expectation can't just apply to me and not her.

[glows]

27 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

I was referring to the previous poster, not you. Not saying that I might not deserve it from some people. It's a possibility I have to be open to if I am to consider all advice equally.

I'm sure it was a culmination of all the issues I caused for her. A person can get rejected only so many times. And she has a therapist, who, I am certain, told her to cut contact with me. I'm not so arrogant to say it's bad advice.

She had some great qualities, but I know there's a better fit for me out there. I have to come to terms with this and move on.

Agreed. 

And earlier you’d posted this in response.

5 hours ago, helloladies21 said:

I just miss her a lot. But that's the point: I don't know what that means. Did I do what I had to do by breaking it off or did I miss out on something that could have been right for me? I haven't come to terms with that.

She wasn’t right for you the whole time, evidenced by your attempts to break it off more than once.

Have you never missed someone before and been able to let it rest? What about your ex wife or previous partners in relationships that have ended? I’m puzzled what you were expecting - for yourself to move on quickly and not have a thought about her? Your expectations may be unrealistic. 3 months isn’t very long and she ultimately (ironically) was the one who blocked you and made it final. If I’m mistaken correct me here. Who eventually said it was over and didn’t want to go any further? Be kind to yourself please and don’t expect miracles especially if you sincerely cared for this person. You just weren’t seeing long term with her. It’s not so black and white all the time.

2 hours ago, helloladies21 said:

Because she wanted me to meet these people and set up an evening for us to meet and get to know each other. It wasn't a chance meeting. And she said she would have wanted to know in similar situations. Is she wrong too? I would have felt the need to tell her if I were in her shoes. I would have told her. Even though we weren't in a relationship at that time, we were exclusively dating each other. And my feelings had progressed beyond just sex by then. That's how it started for me, but not how it ended.

I'm writing this post to come to terms with things. To get a better understanding of why this hurts. How I can get over it and even if that's the right thing to do. To be prepared in case she reaches out to me. It's not as simple as getting dumped by a girl that I didn't care about and I was using for sex. That doesn't accurately state the facts of what happened. If it did, this thread would not exist.

I said up front that some of you would be mad at me. I expected this.

I happen to think she could have been more open about her origins or history of knowing these people but she wasn’t. Was she wrong? Not to her. Yes, she was wrong to you. It’s fine not to agree and that’s why you’re not together anymore. Again.. incompatible here.

No need to force “getting over” her. As I said be kind to yourself and roll with the emotions. Don’t fight it so bad and expect to just feel fantastic that someone you enjoyed spending time with is no longer in your life. I see this as a natural healing process. It’s ok to think back but please don’t overthink the entire thing and get stuck in this loop. Accept that she was a lovely person you knew and it’s OK to move forward.

[helloladies21]

4 minutes ago, glows said:

Who eventually said it was over and didn’t want to go any further?

I did. She blocked me immediately afterward.

Thank you for taking the time to write your lovely post.

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, helloladies21 said:

So then she was also wrong to tell me that she would have wanted to know if I were to have a drink with someone I had dated? Or if I were in a group of friends and one of them was someone I had some kind of prior relationship with? The expectation can't just apply to me and not her.

No, she was not wrong to tell you that she would have wanted to know if you were to have a drink with someone you had dated or in a group of friends and one of them was someone you had some kind of prior relationship with. The expectation of open communication in a relationship should apply to both parties.

If she agreed to tell you before you met any of her past lovers then she didn't uphold the agreement. Besides your concerns about their involvement, nothing would change if you knew. There's nothing wrong with not telling, it is just unnecessary to add pressure in your relationship. Remember, it is ultimately her decision and she may have her own reasons for not wanting to share that information.

No one knows why she told you after the fact. Perhaps she didn't tell you before the introduction, figuring you'd be mad when you were together versus just getting together. It's impossible to say now, but it is likely that she had her own reasons for choosing when to tell you.

Clearly, we are drifting away from the question you asked... which is kind of the point. There's a point to being upset because she failed to deliver a courtesy. Perhaps your question would have been better asked in that direction.

[ExpatInItaly]

12 hours ago, helloladies21 said:

My feelings for her grew as I continued to see her.

But you dumped her anyway. 

You're not making much sense. In any case, I don't think she would have continued to be an option for you even if this information about her hadn't come to light. She would have eventually tired of this casual arrangement with you having one foot in, one foot out. So there's no sense worrying now if you let something good go, because I think she would have seen herself out sooner or later anyway. There was already too much damage done with the back-and-forth. 

[Els]

21 hours ago, helloladies21 said:

I was referring to the previous poster, not you

@glows  stated the truth of it: nobody is mad at you. Giving you hard facts is not equivalent to being mad at you. Honestly, I hope that someday you'll realise that life is not all about you, and that people are thinking about you or feeling things about you much less often than you think they are. This is a relationship forum - you posted a scenario, people are responding to the scenario you gave. Sometimes those responses may not be the ones you want.

[JTSW]

On 6/24/2023 at 3:14 PM, helloladies21 said:

I do believe she owes me an apology.

She doesn't owe you anything.

She shared an experience with a friend a long time ago, before you, that should be of no concern to you.

The couple are still her close friends so why shouldn't she associate with them.

She hasn't done anything wrong.

I think you just used this an excuse to sabotage it with her, whether you realise it or not.

You have no right to judge her, especially when you brag about sleeping with dozens and dozens of women.

Which doesn't make you sound good btw.

[helloladies21]

On 6/24/2023 at 8:50 PM, Alpacalia said:

If she agreed to tell you before you met any of her past lovers then she didn't uphold the agreement.

We never discussed it before our last argument, but we were in agreement that it was inferred that each of us would have liked to know if we we wer going to have certain types involvement with someone we had something romantic with. I even believe we were in agreement on what types of situations we were required to disclose. She just believed that her situation didn't qualify. She made a convenient exception for herself.

On 6/24/2023 at 8:50 PM, Alpacalia said:

No one knows why she told you after the fact. Perhaps she didn't tell you before the introduction, figuring you'd be mad when you were together versus just getting together. It's impossible to say now, but it is likely that she had her own reasons for choosing when to tell you.

She actually told me during our argument. It didn't cross her mind. She didn't deem it important enough to tell me. I believe her. It's not like she was trying to be deceptive. This is all about lack of consideration. I saw a meme that said "Consideration is the highest form of love" and I agree. Thinking about how things impact people shows how much you care about them. She initially assumed I was accusing her of trying to fool me. I had to say it to her a few times before she finally realized that I didn't think that at all. What really set me off is that when she finally realized I was upset that she wasn't concerned with keeping me informed about something both of us agreed was important to us, it didn't seem like that big of a deal to her. Her words: "So I'm guilty of being inconsiderate." This was all through text, but she was dismissive, almost sarcastic about it. I didn't like that. It made me feel like she didn't care about it. I cared about her enough that I would have told her if I were in a similar situation.

If she would have seen my point of view and apologized, I would have completely dropped it. And who knows; maybe it would have drawn me in to the point that I would have wanted to be in a relationship with her. We had only dated for two and a half months. And my feeling for her were getting stronger. I can't say they had topped out. The way I feel about someone is largely dependent on how they feel about me. I've noticed that about myself. It's the way I work.

On 6/24/2023 at 8:50 PM, Alpacalia said:

Clearly, we are drifting away from the question you asked... which is kind of the point. There's a point to being upset because she failed to deliver a courtesy. Perhaps your question would have been better asked in that direction.

It's good for me to talk about these tangent issues, since they get to what is keeping me hung up. This is obviously a complex issue for me that I haven't fully figured out yet, but I will do my best to be more clear.

[helloladies21]

On 6/25/2023 at 3:20 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

So there's no sense worrying now if you let something good go, because I think she would have seen herself out sooner or later anyway. There was already too much damage done with the back-and-forth.

I don't agree with that. If I made a mistake or didn't handle this correctly, I want to know so I don't do it again. It's how I'll learn.

I agree that if things continued like this, she would have left eventually.

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

I agree that if things continued like this, she would have left eventually.

Exactly. No harm no foul. She blocked you and you're free to happily move forward. She probably already has.

[helloladies21]

On 6/25/2023 at 4:24 PM, Els said:

@glows  stated the truth of it: nobody is mad at you. Giving you hard facts is not equivalent to being mad at you. Honestly, I hope that someday you'll realise that life is not all about you, and that people are thinking about you or feeling things about you much less often than you think they are. This is a relationship forum - you posted a scenario, people are responding to the scenario you gave. Sometimes those responses may not be the ones you want.

This post doesn't make any sense. I do believe that at least one poster got mad at me. They likely put themselves in her shoes, sided with her, and felt an emotion about it. I'm fine with it. I'm not so sensitive. And I have no problem with facts. But those aren't what I'm referring to. It's assumptions, judgments, and conclusions that I have the right to be critical of.

I'm not so arrogant to think this world is all about me. I'm just a man and will die one day. I bring no ego into this. But this is my thread, so I'm going to be the subject of discussion. It's impossible for me to not be the center of attention on my thread responding to a comment about me.

Commenting on this thread also includes my right to be critical of the advice I receive. Freedom of expression doesn't go only one level deep.

[ExpatInItaly]

17 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

I don't agree with that

Don't agree with what?

That this relationship was doomed anyway? 

[helloladies21]

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Don't agree with what?

That this relationship was doomed anyway? 

That there's no sense in worrying about it now. I try to learn from my experience.

[helloladies21]

14 hours ago, JTSW said:

She doesn't owe you anything.

She shared an experience with a friend a long time ago, before you, that should be of no concern to you.

If she says she would have wanted to know in similar ciscumstances, I have the right to know. Nobody has given me an argument addressing this double standard.

14 hours ago, JTSW said:

The couple are still her close friends so why shouldn't she associate with them.

And I never said she shouldn't. They seemed like very good people who she should continue to be friends with.

14 hours ago, JTSW said:

She hasn't done anything wrong.

You're more than welcome to your conclusion. I believe it's incorrect.

14 hours ago, JTSW said:

I think you just used this an excuse to sabotage it with her, whether you realise it or not.

No I was genuinely upset with this. I would have been no matter who I was dating.

14 hours ago, JTSW said:

You have no right to judge her, especially when you brag about sleeping with dozens and dozens of women.

Which doesn't make you sound good btw.

I'm not judging her. This is all about how she treated me and how it made me feel.

And it's ironic that this statement contains a judgment about me.

[basil67]

58 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

If she would have seen my point of view and apologized

I think this biggest mistake you made was in raising this by text.  Arguing by text has got to be the worst way to deal with an issue.  Without tone of voice and physical expressions, things get taken out of context and something which could be addressed in 4 sentences becomes huge.  If this discussion was had in person, it may have had a much better outcome.

I'm also curious about your insistence on an apology.  What if she simply admitted that you've got a good point and promised she won't make that mistake again.  Would that have been enough?  I guess it's a moot point now, but I'm just curious if that would have been sufficient.

Edited June 27, 2023 by basil67

[ExpatInItaly]

48 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

That there's no sense in worrying about it now. I try to learn from my experience.

Your misundersood what I meant. 

I don't mean you shouldn't reflect on what happened. My point was that you shouldn't ruminate over whether this was a missed opportunity, because I don't think it was going to last anyway. 

[basil67]

On 6/25/2023 at 3:47 AM, helloladies21 said:

She essentially admitted that she would have wanted to know if I put her in a similar situation. She can't be a hypocrite.

At what point did she say this?   And what did she actually say? 

[helloladies21]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

I think this biggest mistake you made was in raising this by text.  Arguing by text has got to be the worst way to deal with an issue.  Without tone of voice and physical expressions, things get taken out of context and something which could be addressed in 4 sentences becomes huge.  If this discussion was had in person, it may have had a much better outcome.

I agree that over the phone is better and in person is best. Our argument started in person, but she left to let things cool down or because she was too uncomfortable. I wasn't yelling or arguing with her. She could tell I was bothered and distant. The next day she had her daughter with her, so there was no opportinity to talk about it over the phone. It unfolded the way it had to. Looking back, my sense is that there was no miscommunication. I can't say with certainty, though.

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

I'm also curious about your insistence on an apology.  What if she simply admitted that you've got a good point and promised she won't make that mistake again.  Would that have been enough?  I guess it's a moot point now, but I'm just curious if that would have been sufficient.

This is a great question. It certainly would have been. Even if she didn't call it a mistake. Just to say that she won't do it again would have been good enough. But what she essentially communicated to me was; I wouldn't have needed you to tell me in this specific example, but I'll make an exception for you and your needs. It came off a bit condescending and dismissive, especially when she followed it up with examples where she would have wanted to know, which were very similar to what she did to me.

Edited June 27, 2023 by helloladies21

[helloladies21]

30 minutes ago, basil67 said:

At what point did she say this?   And what did she actually say? 

It was in the middle of our final argument. I asked her when she would like to know about my prior dating history with someone. I sensed she was being hypocritical and I wanted to expose this. She responded:

"I feel like most examples I can think of you probably shouldn't be doing anyway. Like if you were going to go out alone for drinks with someone you used to date and hadn't seen in a while. Or maybe even in a group of people going out drinking and you had some sort of relationship with someone in the group, I think I'd want to know ahead of time. Meeting someone by accident - I guess I'd leave that to your discretion. I think this isn't just a big issue from my perspective. I tend to trust people. 

If I were going to go out even just for lunch, which actually happened a couple weeks before I met you, with my most recent ex - not telling you ahead of time to see if you felt ok about a public lunch meeting would be clearly deceptive."

How can she not see the double standard? The rule governing her examples and what she did to me is the exact same from my point of view. 

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

I agree that over the phone is better and in person is best. She had her daughter with her, so there was no opportinity to talk about it over the phone. It unfolded the way it had to. Looking back, my sense is that there was no miscommunication. I can't say with certainty, though.

You should have waited.  And waiting longer would have let you cool off a bit first too.  

And it's not so much about misunderstanding, but texted words being taken more harshly than were meant.  

Quote

[she said] I feel like most examples I can think of you probably shouldn't be doing anyway. Like if you were going to go out alone for drinks with someone you used to date and hadn't seen in a while. Or maybe even in a group of people going out drinking and you had some sort of relationship with someone in the group, I think I'd want to know ahead of time. Meeting someone by accident - I guess I'd leave that to your discretion. I think this isn't just a big issue from my perspective. I tend to trust people. 

If I were going to go out even just for lunch, which actually happened a couple weeks before I met you, with my most recent ex - not telling you ahead of time to see if you felt ok about a public lunch meeting would be clearly deceptive."

Oh for heaven's sake!  Dumping her over this is so petty on your part.  You made a point and she agreed she wouldn't do it again.  

I honestly think you were nitpicking in dissecting all her words. So you chose to stir the pot to try and expose her hypocrisy.  You were fighting for a win to show that you're right and she's wrong.  And where did that get you?

We have an expression here:  "let it through to the (wicket) keeper" and I think this is what you should have done. Sometimes a wayward ball comes your way and rather than taking a swing and potentially getting yourself out, just let it go.  Remember nobody is perfect.  Sometimes our partners can say something which makes us think "what the hell?"  And sometimes they can't read our minds.  Sometimes we need to agree to disagree.  Sometimes we need to sleep on something for a day or two to really let it go.   Thing is, if we want to sustain a relationship both parties need to become adept at letting stuff go.  

If you want a good relationship, you need to learn how to back off and let things simmer down

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by basil67