Hint or not about being a 'gentleman'

[Sam2020]

I've been dating "John" for just over a month.  He's much younger than me (early 50's), and I've noticed that he doesn't do all the gentlemanly things that I am used to.  My own 26 year old son is a complete gentleman who opens the car door for me and his fiancé, he carry's grocery bags for us, and when walking down a street, he puts himself on the street-side.  So it can't be an age thing.  My son's fiancé was just telling me how lucky she is that my son is such a gentleman.  She feels especially lucky because  her friends complain that their own S.O.'s aren't gentlemanly.  I've never dated a man who was not a complete gentleman.  I would never try to change a man from who he is (like women often do), but it does bother me.  Should I even hint at this?  If so, how?  🤔

[Alpacalia]

What does he do that you feel isn't "gentleman" like. Certainly it's nice to have someone carry your bags but you can carry them too yourself, no?

[Wiseman2]

Just now, Sam2020 said:

I've been dating "John" for just over a month.  He's much younger than me (early 50's), and I've noticed that he doesn't do all the gentlemanly things that I am used to.    🤔

How much of an age difference is there? Is he about your son's age? 

You've only been dating 30 days so it's a good time to observe incompatibilities and miscommunication.

Try not to compare him to your son, because your son is being respectful because your his mother. 

Just step back and observe. Maybe he thinks you don't need help with groceries? Is he nice in other ways? 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Sam2020 said:

.I would never try to change a man from who he is (like women often do), but it does bother me.  Should I even hint at this?  If so, how?  🤔

This is a complete contradiction. Either you like him as he is or you don’t. If you don’t, dump him. If you’re fine with it, keep dating him. But don’t try to change him. 

[Ami1uwant]

Define gentleman things……

[MsJayne]

"Gentleman" needs to be defined because it's 2023, we're in the era of women's "empowerment", and it now means something different to what it used to. Some women like to have a door opened for them, some women perceive it as a sexist gesture, so men have to be careful. You mention men carrying shopping bags - chivalrous or sexist? Depends on the woman. If she spends three nights a week lifting weights at the gym she can probably lift her own shopping bags and might perceive an offer to help her as a put-down. It also depends on the different influences on your ideals. If you grew up in a home with a father who held old-fashioned values then you likely look for that quality in a partner and find men with new age attitudes towards women, ("if they want equality they can carry their own bags"), a little confusing, or even rude. Of course, it may just be that your guy has bad manners, because most men I know still do open doors, pull chairs out, etc, for someone they're dating. 

[basil67]

I think a lot of what men do comes from what women in their past have wanted. 

I'm female and in my mid 50's -- my partner is early 60's.   To me it goes back to the question of whether or not the help they give is beneficial.  If I'm carrying all the groceries and he's carrying nothing, then I won't hesitate to ask and he will do it willingly.  And after 30 years together, he's actually thinking to pick up bags himself!  Yay!

I definitely need help (an arm to lean on) when I've got heels on and the footpath is uneven or broken and so I don't hesitate to ask.   

I don't care for car doors being opened or chairs being pulled out because I'm perfectly able to do that myself.  I don't think of it as sexist...it's just overkill. 

All that said, I probably wouldn't be that attracted to a "gentleman" anyway.  He might expect me to not fart.

[JTSW]

Just because he doesn't open a car door for you doesn't mean he's not a good guy.

Does he treat you well?

[Gaeta]

It's not an age thing & it's not a good or bad thing, it's just a thing men have or don't have BUT they can be taught. 

I have always dated men with gentlemen ways, I don't care about car doors and chair pulling but I do care about being given a hand with grocery bags and anything heavy, I mean it's not just a boyfriend's business, my brother or father would not let me lift heavy suitcases by myself, it's a quality that is innate in men usually.

Now, you could mention to your boyfriend what you like, when the moment present itself  and I am sure he'd be happy to please you. Exemple when my bf and I started dating and we took my car instead of his, I handed him my car keys and I said with a smile you drive, I like my man to drive me around ;-) He's been happily driving us around since. This morning I wanted to cut a big squash in half, I handed him the knife and said honey would you please cut that for me with your big strong hands... I bet you I will never have to cut a squash myself from now on. 

I am a strong believer in guiding our partner on how we want to be loved BUT guide him right in the moment with a smile, make it flirty, give him a compliment. 

Give it a try and update us :-)

 

 

[introverted1]

Are you male or female? What are the specific things you would like John to do that he doesn't? 

[Lotsgoingon]

You say he doesn't do the gentlemanly things that you are used to. I note your language "used to" isn't the same as expect. So I'm not picking up that these are all black marks that rule him out for you. 

You can say something if you want. I'm not sure a "hint" will work. You'll have to directly ask for what you want. Do you mean holding doors, for example? You can simply stand there and say "I really like it when a man opens the door." Or maybe you can hint (as you say) and just stand there in front of a door until he figures out that he expects you to open it for him.

I'm only guessing on the specifics--because as others have said, specifics would be really helpful here.  

 

[Sam2020]

Seems I wasn't clear.

I wouldn't ask this question if I didn't think he is a great guy.  That would be silly.  I'm asking because he's the first man who hasn't display gentlemanly ways such as opening my car door to allow me to be seated first (not to get out, a bit much for me, lol).  Carrying groceries or whatever. I'm NOT comparing it to my own son, I'm saying that men I've dated  in the past, has done these thing.  I was raised as an old fashion gal.  At 50, I would think he would know.  But again, I like him and I'm not saying I'll kick him to the curb because he doesn't do above mentioned.  I'm simply asking if I should somehow hint, just accept until other things that don't align with me are apparent.  

Gaeta: Love your answer!

[ExpatInItaly]

He may have previously dated women who don't much care about these things. 

I am one. I don't assign value one way or another to a man opening a car door for me, or walking streetside. If he does it, fine. But if he went out of his way to do so every time, I would honestly find it a bit infantilizing and irritating. I'm an adult, not a fragile flower (again, I realize this is my own mentality and not something everyone agrees with) 

That may be all this is - a difference in mindset. I wouldn't expect a man of any age to assume that being a rather old-fashioned gentleman is what a woman necessarily wants nowadays. By the same token, would it be okay with you if he hinted that he finds such a notion antiquated? And hinted that you should be able to do things like open your own car door? I ask because this sort of thing can go both ways. If that's the case, there would be a difference in values that may speak to a bigger incompatibility. 

[Sony12]

You mentioned you are a bit older (how much older than him are you)? Has he dated that many older women prior to you?

A lot of guys who date older women often aren't the gentlemenly type as a lot of times women who date younger men aren't necessarily looking for a gentleman. They often are looking for a guy who is exciting.

If a guy being a gentleman is really important to you dating younger men might not be best.

In any case you aren't going to change him so if the other things about him that you do find attractive aren't strong enough to look past him not being as much of a gentleman as you want him to be it might be best to go your separate ways.

[glows]

You could mention it but I wouldn’t. I take people exactly as they are. I dislike having a hand in changing anyone according to my liking. If you’re very turned off this early I don’t think this will go very far. 

[Alpacalia]

Like Gaeta, my father and brother are the same. Not let me pay for things, lift heavy things for me or always try to keep me safe. My Dad is older and it's frustrating because I try to help him with certain tasks or treat him to dinner but he won't let me. But I also love and appreciate his fierce desire to provide and care for his children and our closeness.

It sounds like you're asking if it's OK for you to bring up the fact that he doesn't display gentlemanly behavior to you. While it's natural for you to be attracted to someone who does those things, it's also important to remember that everyone has different views on what is and isn't "chivalrous" and some people may not show others courtesies like that because it isn't a value or norm that they were raised with.

I don't think it's necessary for men to act chivalrous in order to show their humanity. For me, chivalry mostly means being understanding, caring, and so on. Yes, if you're struggling with your luggage, the natural thing to do is help. 

But putting people into specific roles based on arbitrary rules like gender rather than the individual's wants, needs, and abilities, regardless of whether it is traditionally associated with male or female roles, is not great.

I hold doors open for people, and if I see an older person struggling with something heavy, I'll offer to help without considering gender.

It's more of an expression of our personalities than a forced and outdated cultural expectation.

Possibly what you're expecting isn't chivalry (albeit an antiquated form of it... in any case, you want what you want), but rather kindness and consideration? 

That's extremely important.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Sam2020 said:

.  At 50, I would think he would know.  .  I'm simply asking if I should somehow hint, just accept until other things that don't align with me are apparent.  

You've only been seeing each other 30 days, so you can speak up and ask him to carry something or get the door.

Whatever his age or your prior experience, he can't read minds.

Maybe he doesn't want to make you feel "old", like he's helping a little old lady across the street so it's possible he's trying to make you feel more equal? 

[ShyViolet]

If I'm ever with a guy and have to carry heavy things, I always just automatically hand it to them and say "Here, carry this."  LOL

Maybe ask?

[Gaeta]

Any update OP?

[basil67]

Putting aside that he doesn't do things for you that you can easily do yourself, is he good with things where you actually need help?   Or what about the other day to day things like offering to make you tea or coffee?   Does he cook for you?  Does he plan nice dates?

[Sam2020]

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You've only been seeing each other 30 days, so you can speak up and ask him to carry something or get the door.

Whatever his age or your prior experience, he can't read minds.

Maybe he doesn't want to make you feel "old", like he's helping a little old lady across the street so it's possible he's trying to make you feel more equal? 

LOL, maybe but I doubt it.  I have great genetics so we look the same age.  But I suppose I should hint a bit. 

[Sam2020]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

Putting aside that he doesn't do things for you that you can easily do yourself, is he good with things where you actually need help?   Or what about the other day to day things like offering to make you tea or coffee?   Does he cook for you?  Does he plan nice dates?

Okay, so I just cooked dinner for us the other day.  He's great with doing the dishes afterwards.  And I had mentioned something about wanting to get placemats, he pulled up the ones he has and asked if I'd like a set.  He's given me a laser pointer to play with my cat.  He doesn't really cook so that's out but we've done dinners, the theater, sunset dinners and movies so far.  And he's very attentive with texting me morning and evening greetings, plus chatting in between during his lunch break.  He has his own company and I'm retired so we mostly see each other on weekends.  

 

 

[Sam2020]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Any update OP?

Yes, see above reply.  

The next time we are in a situation that lends itself to being gentlemanly, I'll be saying some positive "reinforcement" and see what happens, lol.

He does have many good qualities, so I'll just do a wait and see for the next month.

Another thing that I like about him is that he is close with his family.  He speaks to him mom every weekend (they live across the country).  

[Alpacalia]

He sounds like a goodie so far and has keen interest in you.

I don't understand what the issue is? Us women's contentment knows no bounds!😆

Edited July 17, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Els]

21 hours ago, Sam2020 said:

I'm simply asking if I should somehow hint, just accept until other things that don't align with me are apparent.  

If you've never even asked, and it's important to you, then it's totally fine to ask. It's possible he just hasn't thought about it, or that he received negative responses in the past. So if you don't express your thoughts to him, he won't know what you do or don't like. But that's as far as it should go... ask, and then see what happens. Don't push for it.

Personally, I don't like the car door thing - once in a while for a full-on romantic date is nice, sure, but if H was to do that on a daily basis it would be such a hassle. Like, he'd have to walk to my side, open it, then walk over to his side... I'd rather save the extra few seconds to be honest. He does, however, automatically carry heavy stuff for me. And unlike the car door, that actually makes sense to me, because he's physically larger and stronger. I guess I don't really see it as a gender-based role, but rather a physical traits role... we each contribute the things that we are better at, and this is just an extension of it.