Left feeling hurt by the 'bystander' approach from friends during abuse by a mutual friend

[babybrowns]

Hello all,

I have been a member of a social group for a number of years. I made some friends on the group and decided to plan a little vacation with a few of them. 5 of us went in the end; a mix of older and newer friends of mine who all get along very well. 3 men and 2 women (we are all in our 30’s and 40’s, and single). We were staying in separate rooms at the same hotel; I was sharing a room with the other female in the group.

I spent months planning this 3-day trip and ensured to make it a wonderful experience for all. Most of the 3 days were packed with fun, good times and lots of laughter. I constantly made sure that everyone was comfortable, was happy and had a say in where we might go for dinner, etc.

However on the very last night of the trip, there was an unfortunate incident between myself and one other (male) friend on this trip. He was one of my newer friends on the trip but I had still invited him on it since he seemed nice.

We were all planning on meeting for dinner that night at a certain time, however due to the female friend that I was sharing a room with taking a while to get ready, the men needed to wait for us for 20-30 minutes. 

When we finally met up with the men, this particular male friend was very aggressive with me and accused me of being late. He made the assumption that it was for *me* that they had to wait, and yelled at me. The other 2 men were also a little frustrated that they had to wait for us but did not manifest it in their behaviour like this. Me and my female friend tried to explain the reason we were late, but nobody cared to hear it.

The aggression of this man towards me temporarily stopped when we were walking to the restaurant, but was brought up again at the dinner table when I asked him to apologise for speaking to me in that way since the yelling had caused a tension in the air that was getting in the way of us being able to speak freely with each other. 

This unfortunately flared him up even more and he got very nasty; his words were “Asking me to apologise to you means you are losing your temper Laura, did you know that that’s why some other people in the organisation don’t like you either?” This was met by a few shocked gasps at the dinner table because I am known for being a well-liked and agreeable member of the social organisation. I asked the man to elaborate on this but he refused. My female friend got involved at this point and made it a point to call out the man’s nasty behaviour towards me.

This latter statement which the man made, trying to damage my reputation amidst the group by bringing up a wider issue (regardless of whether it was true or not), might have been a breach of trust because not too long ago, I confided in this man that one of the ladies on the group (whom we both know) had an issue with me after I wrote her a poor review for one of her events. It was rare for me to write a bad review but I felt that there were some things I needed to say in the review.

I found this man’s treatment of me at the dinner very hurtful, and it ruined the last night of the trip for me completely. It was upsetting after all the hard work I had put in to planning the trip for us. But what was worse is that, only one friend (my female friend) was defending me at the table when this man was giving me the verbal abuse, but the 2 other men were just sitting watching, and not defending me. Rather, they just tried changing the subject so that we all spoke about something else, despite me being in great pain and needing it to be sorted.

The next day though, all the other participants of the trip made it their mission to individually communicate with me how much they appreciated what I had done to give them a great time on this trip and how much they enjoyed the trip. None of them brought up the rumour that this nasty man alluded to. Two of them told me how inappropriate this man’s behaviour towards me was on our final night. One of the other men told me that they didn’t get involved at the dinner table when I was being abused because he didn’t want to risk infuriating the aggressive man even more; that it was “a way to make the aggressive man calm down.” This I feel was just an excuse he used to not get involved, since nobody in the vacation group knows the man that well.

I am left feeling very hurt by the treatment that I received last night which was when this ordeal happened, but also, still hurt that the other members of the group did not take it upon themselves to stick up for me when I was being slaughtered at the dinner table by this man. The mood generated by the man‘s aggression on the final night was such a stark contrast to the fun we were all having in the previous 3 days of the trip. It had me in tears for my whole journey back, at a time when I should have been celebrating a successful vacation that was well enjoyed by all save for the unfortunate ending.

I am not sure whether I am still happy to keep friendship with the other friends from this trip, given that they didn’t stick up for me during the attack I experienced by this man at the dinner table.

I would welcome thoughts from anyone for this, thank you. 🌸 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

55 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

 the 2 other men were just sitting watching, and not defending me. Rather, they just tried changing the subject so that we all spoke about something else, 

Sorry this happened. He seems like a rude jerk. It's great the other two tried to change the subject and deescalate things and not make a scene leading to further the conflict.. All you can do is not invite this guy anymore. It's great the other friends consoled and thanked you privately.

[MsJayne]

You were late for dinner because the other female wasn't ready on time. Did you let the guys know you were going to be late? Did you send them a text or call their room and say, "Hey, sorry, but we're running about half hour late"? The other female should have immediately spoken up and explained that it was her fault that you were late rather than standing there and letting you take the abuse. The guy yelling at you, hmm, I don't think I'd bother pursuing a friendship with someone who thinks yelling and aggression is OK, and I doubt you'll ever get an apology from someone so uncouth. There was no need for him to mention that other people in the organisation don't like you, that was way below the belt and intended to hurt.....he's a bit of a bully, very nasty stuff. I'm one of those people who finds lateness extremely disrespectful unless there's a legitimate reason, it's very entitled behaviour expecting others to wait for you, so maybe he had reason to be annoyed but he had no right to blame and abuse you. The other guys didn't intervene because they were probably all standing 'round moaning about waiting for the women, they secretly agreed with him. Depending on how much you value these friendships I would think twice before mixing these people again, and I wouldn't bother even acknowledging the guy who yelled at you. 

[basil67]

I'm really torn on this.  I too, think it's very rude to be late for dinner without a legitimate reason. It's not like she got caught by a car accident which blocked the road.   Did she call those who were waiting, apologise and let them know she'd be another 20 mins?  If not, it speaks to a high degree of entitlement on her part.  

The guy at your table was extraordinarily rude to berate you in public, but I understand why the others worked on trying to deescalate by changing the topic.  Ideally, someone should have taken him outside and calmed him down before rejoining the table with the issue to be discussed at a later time.  Things, is, had they started defending you, the whole thing would have turned into a verbal brawl and destroyed the meal of everyone else in the restaurant.  For better or worse, things don't get "sorted" while both people are still upset.  This needs to happen when you'd both had time to consider your actions and possibly with a single, trusted person to mediate.  

I hate to say it, but the fact that none of them has privately denied the rumour he alluded to suggests there may be some truth in it.   Is there a member of your group who is both honest and kind who you could speak to about it?  I'd ask if it's true and if so, is there anything you could do differently. 

[Weezy1973]

The guy that yelled at you sounds like a loose cannon, which is likely why the other guys didn’t step in. They didn’t want things to escalate, and with a loose cannon that’s always a possibility. 

[Keeves1]

Even though your male friend was not saying anything because they did not want it to get worse and the fact that your female friend did not stand up for you saying for example «It was me who took to long to get ready and that’s why we were late» shows that they are not your friends and they did you dirty. I honestly don’t even know why they came to this trip with you if they all knew you were not well liked in your social group. 

If I were you I would cut them out of your life and be no longer friends with them.

I would too get hurt by that man’s comment because I’d always say that the opinions of your friends and families are the opinions that matters the most. Apparently everyone was your friend on this trip until the last day and they all showed they’re true colors. 
 

I’m sorry this happened and I hope me and the others in this forum could help. Stay Strong! ☺️

[Alpacalia]

I don't understand why these men had to wait for you and the other female. Couldn't they just have met you at the restaurant? Could you not have texted them that you were both running late and tell them to go ahead and you'll meet them at the restaurant?

It just seems like an overreaction and an intense and unnecessary chain of events that ensued over a 20 minute delay.

[NuevoYorko]

Travel is stressful for many people.  It was very ambitions and risky for you to plan a group vacation with 5 people you don't know well, evidently from some type of meetup group.  This one guy "seemed nice" and turns out he wasn't nice.  You found out the hard way.

I understand why the others didn't start defending you.  The situation seems like one that would have been best handled by trying to move on and pay little attention to the guy who was being a jerk rather than getting involved taking sides, and making an even bigger scene out of it.  They are not your close friends, and for all you know, his rude insult towards you was true.  Maybe some people don't like you.  There are people who don't like all of us. 

 I agree with the poster who said that you apparently were just as at fault as your woman friend.  You both came down late together.   And ... writing a bad review of another member's event of course put a target on your back.  That's a choice you made which clearly will put you in a position of "outsider" among this group.  It wasn't wrong for you to write it since you felt compelled to do so, but I do think you might expect people to be wary about you since you did it.

Anyway I am sorry you had such a bad experience.  I don't mean to take the sides of the others, but I do see how it ended up playing out this way.  It sounds like overall the trip was fun.   Maybe you have a calling as a tour director.

 

[Stret]

You need to take these situations in life more maturely and not act like a hurt child. There are jerks, bullies and sociopaths on every corner and in every company. You will be a target of their rage sometimes, but only if you let yourself be a target.
You should have looked at him yelling and asked him: "are you done? OK, let's wait until you're done so that we can go to dinner." You should have said at the dinner table: "OMG are we still talking about it, get over it! We already explained what happened, do you want it in a written form or are we going to have to listen to your whining all vacation for waiting for 20 min?"

You should have refused to talk about it from then on. 

Throw the ball back at him for ruining the good time and you go on having fun without him. Let him look like a jerk he is in front of everyone. But you were defending yourself and engaging with him seriously. He sounds like he thrives on these situations. 

You say you are well-liked and agreeable. Why do you care if you are well-liked? It also means that you give a lot of importance on what others think of you and my guess is that you lost your authentic self trying to please - but people can see through the masks usually and you are neglecting your real self. Being agreeable often is a synonym for not standing up for yourself. This thing exploding into your face and not any other women (even the one that was in fact late) tells something about how others perceive you. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ShyViolet]

Maybe your friends were shocked and didn't know what to say, or didn't want to escalate the situation and thought that ignoring him would be the best thing to do.  I don't blame them

You have obviously learned that this guy is crazy and a very rude person.  Now maybe you see why it's a bad idea to plan a vacation with someone you barely know.

[ExpatInItaly]

I would keep my distance from the aggressive guy, no matter what. It turns out he is not much of a friend and it seems he resents you and has been gossiping about you with other people. 

However, I think you are being unreasonable in your expectation that the other two should have jumped in. I believe they correctly identified the potential for this guy to get even more agitated and didn't want the situation to escalate. It was smart to steer clear of another confrontation. Try to understand where they are coming from, and don't turn this into a measuring stick of their loyalty to you. 

 

[introverted1]

On 7/21/2023 at 2:54 PM, babybrowns said:

The aggression of this man towards me temporarily stopped when we were walking to the restaurant, but was brought up again at the dinner table when I asked him to apologise for speaking to me in that way

At this point, you should have let it go rather than ratchet things up again, especially in a group setting. You had to know that the odds of a sincere apology would be next to nil at that point.  Next time, if you feel compelled to demand an apology in a similar situation, wait until you can speak privately to the person.  A heart-to-heart conversation when you have both calmed down might have led to you understanding why he (seemingly) has a grudge toward you and perhaps allowed you to mend the friendship...  or, at a minimum, understand why he is so upset with you rather than the friend who caused the lateness. It would also give you an opportunity to respectfully say your piece.  Calling someone out at a group event is likely to back-fire exactly as it did. And yes, I am aware that he also called you out at a group event, but you can only be responsible for your own actions and thinking about whether your actions will help or hurt a situation is a skill worth cultivating.

Beyond this, I am confused as to why anyone would have any doubt about why you were late.  Did the woman who caused the lateness not contact the group to let them know she would be delayed by 30 minutes?  Why did you wait with her rather than meet up with the group and let her join you all later? Particularly since you were the group "host" so to speak, I think you should have met the group at the appointed time and let the other woman join you later. 

ETA:  I think your friends were quiet during the dinner because they were likely hoping to de-escalate the situation.  I don't necessarily think their way of handling it was wrong: "defending" you would just have expanded and prolonged the matter.  The only person who should have said anything was the friend who caused the lateness:  "Hey, [name], please don't get upset with Laura, I was the one who was late; Laura was just keeping me company."  And she should have said this immediately when you joined the group that night. 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by introverted1

[basil67]

Introverted1 makes a good point. An apology which you’ve asked for has no meaning.  It’s no different to when the siblings argue and mom makes them apologise and they stand with their arms crossed and sulkily say “I’m sorry 😠” just to get mom to stop it.  

If you want a genuine apology, wait till things calm down and tell them how their actions made you feel using a calm and unconfrontational voice.  Or simply let it drop and see if they ponder their actions and come back to you with an apology of their own volition.

Also, I agree with the poster who said inviting someone who you’ve left a less than stellar review for was going to be tricky.   If you value someone’s friendship, give a great review for their business, but speak to them in private about any issues.  Or give a review which only mentions the good stuff and leave out the bad.  

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

Yeah the demand for a public apology while at the dinner was very ill advised.   I'm sure the other members of the party were embarrassed about that.  

[babybrowns]

Hello all,

Thank you so much for your posts on this. I can see that there is a strong consensus to view the other men’s actions at dinner as them doing the right thing with the intention of de-escalating the situation. I’m trying to get my head around that and your helping a lot.

I have definitely learnt to not invite someone on vacation whom I’ve just met 4 or 5 times. This guy had just seemed quite nice prior to this; everyone besides me also got a shock when his nastiness came out at this dinner.

It is probably also worth mentioning that this guy has had a crush on me for a while and has been trying to get me to go out with him on dates, for which I’ve not said yes (but rather than directly rejecting him, I found excuses here and there to not go out with him as to not hurt him). I don’t know if this is what made him harbour hidden resentment towards me- but he seemed fine with me on the trip prior to that.

The rest of the trip did go very well, we were all having such a blast and were roaring with laughter and fun almost every minute prior to that particular evening. The shock of things suddenly taking this turn made it all the more painful for me, when I had put a lot of work into people having a good vacation.

Yes perhaps I should have gone down to meet the guys earlier and not waited for my friend, but the main issue was that I received communication from my friend that everyone was cool with her new proposed time (she said she had organised it with them downstairs after I’d already come up to my room to get ready when they were still at the pool).

And to clarify, it is not this man whose event I had written the poor review about, but rather a mutual friend of his and mine. As I say I’m not one to write bad reviews of events of this organisation- this was the first time I’d written a bad one in 7 years of being a member. Which also brings me to the point that I have very seldom had issues with any member of the organisation, and I have mostly had good experiences with it. Even so, a bad review of someone else’s event in this way need not be punished in this horrific way.

This man has ended up losing respect amongst some group members who were witness to the ordeal that I experienced from him, so he might have lost more than one friend from this. I have blocked him on every media possible and have asked the other friends on the trip to not let him know my whereabouts or updates about me if he asks- I feel he will want to apologise to me after calming down, since I’d never done anything wrong to him (apart from gently reject him romantically), but I am not prepared to hear him or have anything more to do with him whatsoever.

[stillafool]

28 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

is probably also worth mentioning that this guy has had a crush on me for a while and has been trying to get me to go out with him on dates, for which I’ve not said yes (but rather than directly rejecting him, I found excuses here and there to not go out with him as to not hurt him).

If you only met this guy 4 or 5 times and knew he had a crush on you but you had no interest in him, why did you

invite him?  That's a lead on.  You reject him for dates yet invite him on a trip is giving mixed signals.

32 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

but the main issue was that I received communication from my friend that everyone was cool with her new proposed time (she said she had organised it with them downstairs after I’d already come up to my room to get ready when they were still at the pool).

If this was the case why didn't your friend stand up and explain to the guy yelling at you that she had done this?

 

[basil67]

35 minutes ago, babybrowns said:

It is probably also worth mentioning that this guy has had a crush on me for a while and has been trying to get me to go out with him on dates, for which I’ve not said yes (but rather than directly rejecting him, I found excuses here and there to not go out with him as to not hurt him). I don’t know if this is what made him harbour hidden resentment towards me- but he seemed fine with me on the trip prior to that.

And here we have the real reason he was upset.   

You knew he had a crush on you, but instead of being honest about not being interested, you made excuses about being busy.  Then you invite him on the holiday and he (quite reasonably) thinks that you've now got the time to spend with him.   So he goes along to find that he was friendzoned the whole time and is rightly angry at you for leading him on.

@babybrowns given that you'd never actually said No to the the poor guy, how can you not see how tone deaf your invitation to him was?  

While I still believe should have kept his temper in check, I suddenly have a whole lot more sympathy for him.  

 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, babybrowns said:

It is probably also worth mentioning that this guy has had a crush on me for a while and has been trying to get me to go out with him on dates, for which I’ve not said yes (but rather than directly rejecting him, I found excuses here and there to not go out with him as to not hurt him). I don’t know if this is what made him harbour hidden resentment towards me- but he se

Or maybe it was also because you expected them to wait while you and your female friend finished getting ready.

Why couldn't you text them to tell them to head off to dinner without you and that you'd be a bit late?

Seems simple enough.

Then you accuse him of being abusive and mean and out to be the bad guy. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, babybrowns said:

The rest of the trip did go very well, we were all having such a blast and were roaring with laughter and fun almost every minute prior to that particular evening. 

Unfortunately he was rude however they seemed annoyed that you left them all waiting this long. It's doubtful this drama had anything else behind it, since the rest of the vacation went well. 

[ShyViolet]

3 hours ago, babybrowns said:

It is probably also worth mentioning that this guy has had a crush on me for a while and has been trying to get me to go out with him on dates, for which I’ve not said yes (but rather than directly rejecting him, I found excuses here and there to not go out with him as to not hurt him). I don’t know if this is what made him harbour hidden resentment towards me- but he seemed fine with me on the trip prior to that.

Ok so now the truth comes out.  This guy, who you have only met 4 or 5 times, has expressed romantic interest in you and keeps asking you out on dates.  If you are not interested and have been avoiding his attempts to ask you out, why would you then invite him on a vacation??  That is a really bizarre thing to do and was very poor judgment.  You sent this guy very mixed messages.  If someone asks you out but you are not interested, have the courtesy to be honest with them and let them know you are not interested.  Don't string them along by continuing communication or inviting them places.

I am not at all saying it was ok that he yelled at you.  I'm just saying you made some bad decisions here and he shouldn't have been on that trip in the first place.

[Bue-aidez]

On 7/22/2023 at 2:54 AM, babybrowns said:

Hello all,

I have been a member of a social group for a number of years. I made some friends on the group and decided to plan a little vacation with a few of them. 5 of us went in the end; a mix of older and newer friends of mine who all get along very well. 3 men and 2 women (we are all in our 30’s and 40’s, and single). We were staying in separate rooms at the same hotel; I was sharing a room with the other female in the group.

I spent months planning this 3-day trip and ensured to make it a wonderful experience for all. Most of the 3 days were packed with fun, good times and lots of laughter. I constantly made sure that everyone was comfortable, was happy and had a say in where we might go for dinner, etc.

However on the very last night of the trip, there was an unfortunate incident between myself and one other (male) friend on this trip. He was one of my newer friends on the trip but I had still invited him on it since he seemed nice.

We were all planning on meeting for dinner that night at a certain time, however due to the female friend that I was sharing a room with taking a while to get ready, the men needed to wait for us for 20-30 minutes. 

When we finally met up with the men, this particular male friend was very aggressive with me and accused me of being late. He made the assumption that it was for *me* that they had to wait, and yelled at me. The other 2 men were also a little frustrated that they had to wait for us but did not manifest it in their behaviour like this. Me and my female friend tried to explain the reason we were late, but nobody cared to hear it.

The aggression of this man towards me temporarily stopped when we were walking to the restaurant, but was brought up again at the dinner table when I asked him to apologise for speaking to me in that way since the yelling had caused a tension in the air that was getting in the way of us being able to speak freely with each other. 

This unfortunately flared him up even more and he got very nasty; his words were “Asking me to apologise to you means you are losing your temper Laura, did you know that that’s why some other people in the organisation don’t like you either?” This was met by a few shocked gasps at the dinner table because I am known for being a well-liked and agreeable member of the social organisation. I asked the man to elaborate on this but he refused. My female friend got involved at this point and made it a point to call out the man’s nasty behaviour towards me.

This latter statement which the man made, trying to damage my reputation amidst the group by bringing up a wider issue (regardless of whether it was true or not), might have been a breach of trust because not too long ago, I confided in this man that one of the ladies on the group (whom we both know) had an issue with me after I wrote her a poor review for one of her events. It was rare for me to write a bad review but I felt that there were some things I needed to say in the review.

I found this man’s treatment of me at the dinner very hurtful, and it ruined the last night of the trip for me completely. It was upsetting after all the hard work I had put in to planning the trip for us. But what was worse is that, only one friend (my female friend) was defending me at the table when this man was giving me the verbal abuse, but the 2 other men were just sitting watching, and not defending me. Rather, they just tried changing the subject so that we all spoke about something else, despite me being in great pain and needing it to be sorted.

The next day though, all the other participants of the trip made it their mission to individually communicate with me how much they appreciated what I had done to give them a great time on this trip and how much they enjoyed the trip. None of them brought up the rumour that this nasty man alluded to. Two of them told me how inappropriate this man’s behaviour towards me was on our final night. One of the other men told me that they didn’t get involved at the dinner table when I was being abused because he didn’t want to risk infuriating the aggressive man even more; that it was “a way to make the aggressive man calm down.” This I feel was just an excuse he used to not get involved, since nobody in the vacation group knows the man that well.

I am left feeling very hurt by the treatment that I received last night which was when this ordeal happened, but also, still hurt that the other members of the group did not take it upon themselves to stick up for me when I was being slaughtered at the dinner table by this man. The mood generated by the man‘s aggression on the final night was such a stark contrast to the fun we were all having in the previous 3 days of the trip. It had me in tears for my whole journey back, at a time when I should have been celebrating a successful vacation that was well enjoyed by all save for the unfortunate ending.

I am not sure whether I am still happy to keep friendship with the other friends from this trip, given that they didn’t stick up for me during the attack I experienced by this man at the dinner table.

I would welcome thoughts from anyone for this, thank you. 🌸 

 

 

It's perfectly fine to feel hurt, which shows you weren't happy with what happened and expected certain behaviour from the other two guys. Try look it at from their perspective, the other men were also frustrated by having to wait for the ladies. Not only that, but some people naturally don't get involved in conflicts(does their personality fit this). They did come console you later on which shows they do care.

 

People will always talk, don't let the "rumour" get to you. 

[NuevoYorko]

Can you clarify why you invited this man on a vacation when he's been trying to date you, and you've been trying to sidestep?   Honestly I cannot grasp why you'd do that.   

 

[ExpatInItaly]

Count me among the confused posters who can't fathom why you'd invite this man on vacation when you knew he liked you and you'd been dodging him. 

His behaviour with you was out of line, no doubt. But your behaviour also makes no sense. What were you thinking there? 

[JTSW]

I'm sorry to sound so blunt OP but you have created so much drama here and it's your own doing.

You invite a guy who has been crushing on you on vacation.

Without realising it, you led him to believe that the invite meant more than it was.

He obviously saw your invite as something else and became upset on the last day because he felt led on by you.

You continually use the word 'abuse' but that's not what it was.

You too are at fault here but cannot see that.

You just see yourself as a victim that hasn't done anything wrong and everyone else is a monster because they didn't defend you.

They didn't say anything because they could see what was really going on here.

And you are not an innocent party.

 

[NuevoYorko]

13 hours ago, JTSW said:

I'm sorry to sound so blunt OP but you have created so much drama here and it's your own doing.

You invite a guy who has been crushing on you on vacation.

Without realising it, you led him to believe that the invite meant more than it was.

He obviously saw your invite as something else and became upset on the last day because he felt led on by you.

You continually use the word 'abuse' but that's not what it was.

You too are at fault here but cannot see that.

You just see yourself as a victim that hasn't done anything wrong and everyone else is a monster because they didn't defend you.

They didn't say anything because they could see what was really going on here.

And you are not an innocent party.

 

It almost seems like the whole thing was set up in a sort of theatrical way.   

Taking the guy's interest in the OP out of the equation, I don't think that any group of adults would have gotten involved by defending the OP.  Everybody would have felt like they were "helping" the best way possible by trying to change the subject, to minimize the negativity going on.

But then OP demands a public apology from the spurned  fellow.

Very very awkward.  I bet everybody was quite happy when that dinner was over.

Edited July 24, 2023 by NuevoYorko