I'm so uncomfortable about his ex-gf

[MicheleT]

17 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

First of all - if you’re all in your forties, what are these financial issues all about that prevent them from moving? That would be my first issue. It doesn’t sound like they’re having children together, and they’re not in their twenties anymore so what’s the financial issue and what’s the deal with the 2-month timeline? What will be different in 2 months?

Apart from that, I think your issue is with him not with her. You can’t control her, but you can ask him to stop certain behaviors, which you did. Good for you!

And about her: To me it seems like she’s trying to point it out to you over and over that they have a history together, that they’re still very much present in one another’s life, and that she is and will be a staple in his life, while you’re just the “new” addition at this point. She’s marking her territory, not necessarily because she wants him back, but because she wants to remain somewhat relevant in his life. It’s very odd that she would keep in touch with his family. That’s also a “marking her territory” thing. No normal person after a separation (esp if they weren’t married and if they don’t have kids together) would make a point in remaining in an ex-partner’s family of origin. There’s just no point. Same applies to social media comments. She wants to show the world and him that she’s still relevant or important somehow. She might not be a bad person per se, but maybe she has some insecurities. I’m sure if she finds a new partner this will stop pretty quickly. I understand why you blocked her, but I wouldn’t have done that. It looks petty and she probably got the impression that her attitude has had some effect on you. And that’s probably exactly what she wanted to accomplish. But again, I understand why you did it and how her snarky comments must have annoyed you.

It seems like you and your guy have a pretty good communication basis so I would just ask him to please make sure that her family limits or ceases contact with her. That’s the least he can do. Once he has moved out, he should cease contact as well, if possible. 

This thoughtful post summarizes the whole situation nicely!  I also think the ex is quite immature and insecure.  So you’re playing into her hands if you act like you’re bothered by her immature and insecure behaviors.  Just ignore her nonsense.  Tell the guy to at least have a clean break with her once she moves out, including on social media.  Until then, he has no business dating you!

[basil67]

 

57 minutes ago, ExpandPalace said:

I find it difficult to watch someone I care for being treated like that. accepting this kind of treatment. 

Fixed it for you.  

This guy isn't a victim of her actions because he's choosing to continue being a friend.  And did I read that she's still involved in activities with his family?  (sorry if I imagined it)

I think the bigger question is why he's apparently OK with how she treats him and why he chooses to see her posts on social media.  

Edited August 9, 2023 by basil67

[ExpandPalace]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 

Fixed it for you.  

This guy isn't a victim of her actions because he's choosing to continue being a friend.  And did I read that she's still involved in activities with his family?  (sorry if I imagined it)

I think the bigger question is why he's apparently OK with how she treats him and why he chooses to see her posts on social media.  

You're 100% right. Thanks for the fix. You nailed it. That's the crux of what's bothering me. Thank you for helping me flesh that out!

I feel disgusted and irritated that he accepts poor treatment. And, admittedly, I began to feel resentful because I don't treat him that way, yet he keeps me at arms length as a third wheel.

I know what I bring. I've done a lot of work on myself and I know my worth. I'm a good partner. I'm emotionally supportive, patient, stable, reliable, emotionally intelligent, mature, kind... I feel not jealous, but resentful that he seems so afraid of dating me for fear of repeating his mistakes, yet clings to the familiarity of his ex. I understand it. It's very common human behaviour, especially for those of us who grew up in toxic families. He genuinely wants to have a healthier relationship and he's trying so hard to make that happen, but old patterns are difficult and scary to change.

She's a safety blanket. She's what he's known for so long. In his words, "She's kind but not nice". I know what he means. When it really matters, she's a solid support and a good friend. She means him well. But she's also snarky, insulting, and dismissive. I know plenty of family dynamics like that. They're there during crisis and for the big things, but they're also cutting and dig at your self-esteem.

 

He puts up with her because it's familiar. He's struggling with letting go of the familiar for something different, which is a painful growth process for anyone who's broken a glass ceiling or deliberately changed toxic habits.

 

Thanks so much for your help identifying that. This is the clarity  I needed.

[basil67]

I'm so glad I could help.   Meanwhile your description of "kind but not nice" has just helped me identify a certain dynamic in my own extended family - so I thank you in return

[ExpandPalace]

Just now, basil67 said:

I'm so glad I could help.   Meanwhile your description of "kind but not nice" has just helped me identify a certain dynamic in my own extended family - so I thank you in return

I love when that happens! I hope whatever that situation is improves for you too.

[Gaeta]

45 minutes ago, ExpandPalace said:

I know what I bring. I've done a lot of work on myself and I know my worth.

I'm sincerely sorry to point this to you, l don't want to come across as mean l'm not,  but a woman with self worth would not have dated him at all.

A woman that has her life on track would be completely repulsed by the living arrangement and the drama from the get go. She would not have over looked those red flags to then find herself emotionally attached to so much dysfunctions 6 month later.

No amount of connection, qualities, and being compatible justify living with this drama.

Between you and l, you're not a bit embarassed of him?  Maybe it's just me but l would die before introducing a man to my family that still lives with his ex and uses social media back and forth with his ex.  

[ExpandPalace]

17 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I'm sincerely sorry to point this to you, l don't want to come across as mean l'm not,  but a woman with self worth would not have dated him at all.

A woman that has her life on track would be completely repulsed by the living arrangement and the drama from the get go. She would not have over looked those red flags to then find herself emotionally attached to so much dysfunctions 6 month later.

No amount of connection, qualities, and being compatible justify living with this drama.

Between you and l, you're not a bit embarassed of him?  Maybe it's just me but l would die before introducing a man to my family that still lives with his ex and uses social media back and forth with his ex.  

I don't fully disagree and I don't fully agree. I'm from a very fringe and misfit portion of society and I run into this difference of opinion all the time. I'm monogamous, but have many poly friends and what you're attaching to self-worth is a very mono-normative opinion. People in poly relationships who are dating someone married don't have low self-worth. It's largely a cultural thing. In other cultures or relationship types, self-worth wouldn't be tied to dating someone still living with his ex - values would.

I made a decision to date him based on many conversations with him about their situation. He worked hard to show me that there's nothing between them. In my friend group there are many alternative relationship behaviours that heteronormative society would label wrong or what have you, that we don't see the same way. 

That being said, what has affected my self-esteem and what I do recognize was me selling myself short was how often I tolerated him talking about her and what he said about her. There are ways that she's still very much a primary fixture in his life that I don't think he was fully aware of and they came out gradually. He said some very hurtful things when we were supposed to be out on a date just him and me. That's where I agree with you that I began to shrink with him.

The final straw for me was when I drove him to the airport to kiss him goodbye for the trip he's currently on and he talked about his ex in a few ways that essentially still placed her as the fixture in his life. I broke up with him in response to it once he landed and was settled at his family's (which I realize I didn't make clear in my OP). I left the proverbial door open by telling him that once she's moved out and once he's actually ready to make space for me in his life, then we can talk.

The struggle is that he doesn't want to let me go. Since I told him how hurt I was and told him I was worth more, he's been doing a lot of self-reflection and trying to reassure me every day (for the last 3 weeks) how much I mean to him and that he wants to talk it out. When I tell him I want to just mourn him and get over my romantic feelings, he persists and says he wants to talk.

The other thing I didn't mention in my original post was that he's neurodivergent. It's a contentious topic and I get tired of people commenting things like, "that's no excuse", which always angers me. I'm very familiar with neurodivergence and I know very well-meaning people who have done really dumb things without realizing it. I know many failed relationships where the neurodivergent person really didn't realize they were hurting the other person and needed things told to them directly. I knew that going into this with him and it's one of the things I accept about him. Sometimes he does things that could easily offend people, but he doesn't mean it that way at all. He's upset many people over his life without intending to. He's one of the kindest people on the planet. He's neurodivergent and that's what it means sometimes to be neurodivergent.

I decided to get to know his true intentions and to make space for him to be completely genuine with me without masking. I ask him tons and tons of questions. "What did you mean when you said X?" Very often, my initial reaction is not what he meant at all, so we clarify and move on.

People in the adhd and asd community feel a lot of resentment and sadness over how much they're misunderstood by neurotypicals because their brains are literally different.

So, in large part, the choices I've made with him have been rooted in alternative ways of being in the world, which many heteronormative and neurotypical people would label as "unacceptable" or having basis in low self-esteem. I don't think it's as clearcut as that. 

No, I'm not at all embarrassed by him. Not even a little. It's not the fact that they still live together. That was a pragmatic decision based on logic, which is how he thinks. He's highly logical and it made way more sense to save money. He's almost ready to buy his own place now as a result of that choice with her. That made perfect sense to me at the time and it wasn't based in low self-esteem.

[MicheleT]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

I'm sincerely sorry to point this to you, l don't want to come across as mean l'm not,  but a woman with self worth would not have dated him at all.

A woman that has her life on track would be completely repulsed by the living arrangement and the drama from the get go. She would not have over looked those red flags to then find herself emotionally attached to so much dysfunctions 6 month later.

No amount of connection, qualities, and being compatible justify living with this drama.

Between you and l, you're not a bit embarassed of him?  Maybe it's just me but l would die before introducing a man to my family that still lives with his ex and uses social media back and forth with his ex.  

To add, how kind can he be and how well can he be treating you if he constantly subjects you to this mess of a drama?

But then his being autistic changes my views, because they tend to lack filters.  Sorry for being blunt, but could his ex get fed up at “babysitting” him in navigating socially?

[Gaeta]

8 minutes ago, ExpandPalace said:

The struggle is that he doesn't want to let me go

But is he ready to cut his link with her, disconnect from her social media and let go of socializing with her family?

[ExpandPalace]

3 minutes ago, MicheleT said:

 Sorry for being blunt, but could his ex get fed up at “babysitting” him in navigating socially?

No, it seems she's mostly fed up with his ADHD behaviours. Neurodivergent means more than just autistic. It encompasses PTSD, ADHD, and other things. I do strongly believe he's also on the autism spectrum, but it's mainly his ADHD that clashes with his ex so much. She's low energy and he dances around the house full of energy. I personally love his enthusiasm and he's one of the few people in my world who actually matches my enthusiasm. I usually feel deflated when I get excited about things and they don't get it. He gets me and I get him in many ways.

He doesn't need babysitting. He has impulsive spending and that's the only problematic behaviour that concerns me. Otherwise, he's extremely intelligent and high functioning. He's very competent socially and he's actually even more social than me, but his friend group are all neurodivergent people who he doesn't have to mask around. 

[ExpandPalace]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

But is he ready to cut his link with her, disconnect from her social media and let go of socializing with her family?

I don't think they should have to disconnect from each other's social media. That's, again, a normative standard I don't personally follow. I was completely comfortable with them remaining friends and on social media with each other up until the point that I repeatedly felt pegged down, kept at arm's length, and shadowed.

The salient questions are:

When they live apart, will she stop staying with his family (it's she who stays with his family when she's working in their country), will he make space for me as a primary partner, will he stop talking about her except for occasional mentions, will he keep our private life private from her, will he stop using her as a safety blanket...

[Gaeta]

17 minutes ago, ExpandPalace said:

I don't think they should have to disconnect from each other's social media. That's, again, a normative standard I

My suggestion to disconnect from her social media was not about following norms but about having them stop going back and forth. I doubt she will stop making comments about their life together just because he doesn't live with her anymore.  

I don't care what's the norm and who's friends with whom as long as it's done in the respect of all involved. I don't see it happenning without these 2 disconnecting.

[MicheleT]

25 minutes ago, ExpandPalace said:

No, it seems she's mostly fed up with his ADHD behaviours. Neurodivergent means more than just autistic. It encompasses PTSD, ADHD, and other things. I do strongly believe he's also on the autism spectrum, but it's mainly his ADHD that clashes with his ex so much. She's low energy and he dances around the house full of energy. I personally love his enthusiasm and he's one of the few people in my world who actually matches my enthusiasm. I usually feel deflated when I get excited about things and they don't get it. He gets me and I get him in many ways.

He doesn't need babysitting. He has impulsive spending and that's the only problematic behaviour that concerns me. Otherwise, he's extremely intelligent and high functioning. He's very competent socially and he's actually even more social than me, but his friend group are all neurodivergent people who he doesn't have to mask around. 

Being social (as in, enjoying meeting/hanging out with others) is different from being socially competent though.  I just can’t reconcile the fact that he constantly subjects you to their messy drama with his being a kind person, unless he’s socially very dense!  

So it was the ex’s idea to break up?  Why did she tolerate him for so long if she’d been so fed up with some of his behaviors?  

[ExpandPalace]

8 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

My suggestion to disconnect from her social media was not about following norms but about having them stop going back and forth. I doubt she will stop making comments about their life together just because he doesn't live with her anymore.  

I don't care what's the norm and who's friends with whom as long as it's done in the respect of all involved. I don't see it happenning without these 2 disconnecting.

Fair. Thanks for explaining.

This is where I start acknowledging my own baggage. It's extra challenging for me to be in a position where I feel like the demanding or controlling bully and that's how I would feel setting a term or boundary that they disconnect on social media. It's just not something I'll ever feel comfortable doing. If they want to be friends, be friends. But it seems they still have resentments with each other without having closure. I'm not sure social media is going to make or break that. It's just highlighting it.

[ExpandPalace]

10 minutes ago, MicheleT said:

Being social (as in, enjoying meeting/hanging out with others) is different from being socially competent though.  I just can’t reconcile the fact that he constantly subjects you to their messy drama with his being a kind person, unless he’s socially very dense!  

So it was the ex’s idea to break up?  Why did she tolerate him for so long if she’d been so fed up with some of his behaviors?  

It was a mutual decision and I suspect it was a sunk cost fallacy, along with an established routine that kept them together so long. There were practical benefits they both relied on.

 

As for being socially competent, that's a good point. There are things he's not so good at with social etiquette, but I don't personally care about those things. I'm not sure if she felt like she had to babysit him. Their dynamic is so foreign to me and the little I know disturbs me.

I keep trying to see how I feel about your comment about him subjecting me to their drama. I'm still unclear about that, but thanks for asking the question! That's very helpful. 

[ExpatInItaly]

9 hours ago, ExpandPalace said:

And, admittedly, I began to feel resentful because I don't treat him that way, yet he keeps me at arms length as a third wheel.

This right here is how you know you're dating the wrong guy. 

Plain and simple. 

[JTSW]

So what happens after she has moved out in 2 months?

Are they going to keep in touch?

What many are trying to convey here is that regardless of them living together or not, they will always have this dynamic between them.

Nothing will really change.

They are weirdly enmeshed.

And you are the outsider in their dynamic.

[MicheleT]

So he was still saying hurtful things to you and venting about his ex up to the point you drove him to the airport?  I hate to break this to you, but he didn’t respect your uncomfortable feelings about having to listen to their drama constantly.  My former co-worker/friend was the same.  He would keep making crass statements about my looks (among other things) despite my repeated requests for him to stop.

[ShyViolet]

There's no way I would date a guy who has such poor judgment and lack of maturity.  Some part of him must enjoy this in order to choose to stay in this situation for as long as he has.  If he has "financial issues" and can't afford to have his own place, then he can get a DIFFERENT roommate, like many people do.  He didn't have to stay living with this woman and constantly talk about her.  He chooses to do that.  Frankly I'm really surprised that you have put up with this for as long as you have.

[Gaeta]

I find this interesting that he could not afford to move out but he was able to save enough money for a down payment on a house.

You've picked for yourself a man with multiple mental issues that keeps you at a distance. A man that volontarely stayed in a toxic relationship for years and would still be in that relationship if she had not broken up.

 

[ShyViolet]

12 hours ago, ExpandPalace said:

The salient questions are:

When they live apart, will she stop staying with his family (it's she who stays with his family when she's working in their country), will he make space for me as a primary partner, will he stop talking about her except for occasional mentions, will he keep our private life private from her, will he stop using her as a safety blanket...

The fact that you even need to ask these things means you are dating the wrong person.  It's weird that you would even consider putting up with this.

[MicheleT]

19 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I find this interesting that he could not afford to move out but he was able to save enough money for a down payment on a house.

You've picked for yourself a man with multiple mental issues that keeps you at a distance. A man that volontarely stayed in a toxic relationship for years and would still be in that relationship if she had not broken up.

 

I take it to mean that he stayed with the ex because he wanted to save money, not because he couldn’t afford to move out.  But yeah, I’d rather move to a small studio than getting entangled in this messy drama.  His choice also tells you his values and priorities.  Imho, that’s a bit cheap, but then he also has no problem spending impulsively?! 

[Els]

 Again, I will say that this is not how healthy relationships work - if a city is so expensive and a person is really so broke that they must live with their ex for 8 months after splitting (but they also "spend impulsively"?) then fine, but no decent person would actually date seriously during that time. They would stay in that house, sure, since it beats being homeless, but they wouldn't date. It's so disrespectful to expect you to put up with this situation, and no decent partner will expect this of you.

Unfortunately, it seems like you are so caught up in making excuses for his choices and his behaviour that you won't see the facts that are right before you.

15 hours ago, ExpandPalace said:

When they live apart, will she stop staying with his family (it's she who stays with his family when she's working in their country), will he make space for me as a primary partner, will he stop talking about her except for occasional mentions, will he keep our private life private from her, will he stop using her as a safety blanket...

And many of us are telling you that the answer to your question is "no". Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like an answer that you are willing to accept. So, I'm not entirely sure what else can be said here... it seems like you've made up your mind to accept the status quo, so what is there to discuss?

 

[introverted1]

18 hours ago, ExpandPalace said:

he seems so afraid of dating me for fear of repeating his mistakes, yet clings to the familiarity of his ex.

He's not ready to date.  He has work to do on himself before he can be a healthy partner. 

[ExpandPalace]

Just now, introverted1 said:

He's not ready to date.  He has work to do on himself before he can be a healthy partner. 

I agree.