Toxic Family Dynamic

[JenJo2024]

I'm struggling with navigating relationships with 2 members of my immediate family. It is causing me emotional distress regularly and I need some support/advice.

The first person is my brother. He is a textbook narcissist. Unable to show empathy, is self centered, abusive, overbearing and loves to minimize others contributions and make himself out to be the martyr in most situations. I recently found out that my brother took control of my mothers assets. The family knew some of it was happening (long story), but it wasn't supposed to completely just go to him. Now he gets everything and the rest of us are left with nothing. He took it all and lied about  it. I've requested he fix things and make it right, but he has ignored me thus far. He is the type of person that pushing the issue will lead to the two of us going no contact. He and I have go no contact before and went a decade without talking. It was bliss. I didn't miss his b.s.

The second person is my mother. She is mentally ill and an emotionally immature parent. We've never had the typical parent-child relationship. I've always been parentified and made to feel responsible for her feelings and problems. She neglected me throughout most of my childhood and failed to provide me with the things I needed. I've confronted her about this new situation and how things were moved to my brothers name and she doesn't care. I don't think she has the mental capacity to understand what has transpired, nor does she care how it has made me feel.

Right now, I'm holding them both at arm's length and struggle not to toss the two of them out of our lives and slam the door closed. They belittle me and take me on expensive guilt trips with their own problems and things they think I should be doing for them. I've set some minimal boundaries to protect myself which they both resent and they trample over.

I know many people will say I should just go no contact. What stops me is my son. I've been hanging onto these relationships not because I love either of these relative but because of the relationships they have with my son (age 8). 

Give me your honest thoughts...What should I do? I'm miserable and falling apart trying to deal with these two people. I don't feel like I want to cut them off completely because of my son, but I'm not sure how much more I can stand before I break. Thanks for your wisdom ❤️

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by JenJo2024

[S2B]

Toxic relationships whether it’s family or others is always difficult.

since you don’t have positive feelings about these two people - why would you think it would benefit your son to be exposed to toxic people?

 

[basil67]

For starters, you should see a lawyer about your mother's assets.  If your mother doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what your brother has done, you may be able to appeal. 

You should probably block your brother, but it's hard to comment on your mother without knowing the details of her mental and emotional capacity.  Does she require care from a psychiatrist?  If so, this is something else which the forementioned lawyer would need to know.  

Your mention of "the rest of us" suggests you have siblings.  What is their take on this? 

[JenJo2024]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

For starters, you should see a lawyer about your mother's assets....

Your mention of "the rest of us" suggests you have siblings.  What is their take on this? 

I considered the lawyer, but the estate is not sizeable enough for it to make sense for me to do that. Nor do I have the funds to pay a lawyer out of my own pocket and potentially throw that money away. I honestly don't care if I get the money, it's the principle behind what he did that enrages me.

Sorry - I was thinking of my child when I said "rest of us". We have other distant people, but nobody that care enough to do anything.

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, JenJo2024 said:

I considered the lawyer, but the estate is not sizeable enough 

Sorry this is happening. Is he living with her? Does he have power of attorney?

Unfortunately she can name whoever she wants in her will. So an attorney can't help you with that.

However if you have documentable proof of elder financial abuse, you could pursue that.

Please try not to subject your child to these people if they were horrible to you. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Wiseman2

[MsJayne]

My advice to anyone dealing with a narcissist is always the same, rid yourself of them. Only you know your full history with your brother, but if it's anything like most people who have to deal with a narcissist family member you probably have to fight the urge to strangle him. You mother sounds fairly typical of this dynamic, I bet she thinks the sun, moon, and stars shine from your brothers behind, yes? Best thing you can do is go ahead and slam that door, and don't feel bad about your son not having those relationships, it would do him no favours to be around toxic people who have no regard for others because he could end up catching A*****e Syndrome from them. The narcissist sibling or parent is never above using your child as an avenue to torment you. The hard part would be explaining to your son why, he's too young to be burdened with family drama. 

[JTSW]

Just leave them to their own little messed up selfish world and get as far away from them as you can.

From what I can gather, nothing will be come of any action you take, so just rid yourself of these toxic people.

Your mother will be gone one day and Karma will eventually bit your bother in the ass.

He thinks he's clever, but he will mess up at some point and that's his tough luck.

Walk away and be happy.

[Alpacalia]

Unfortunately for you, your Mom is not going to be respectful of boundaries unless you make it clear that she must. This may mean going no contact for a while so you can establish boundaries and let her know that her mistreatment will no longer be tolerated. It may be difficult at first, but once your Mom sees you are serious about respecting your own boundaries and maintaining your own happiness, she may start to come around.

I know this because there was a period where my Mother behaved very similar to yours and the only way I could maintain any type of healthy relationship with her was by limiting our interactions and not being available whenever she asked. Our relationship is much better now but it took a lot of patience and determination on my part and learning the skills to not engage and maintain enough distance to protect my own wellbeing.

On the other hand, it's highly unlikely that your brother will respond to reasoning or boundaries as he is exhibiting Narcissistic traits. TV shows and books convey that you need to just stand up to them and they will come around, but that is rarely true. Your brother's behavior is likely to become worse if you continue to try to reason with in him. With your brother, it may be best to avoid him as much as possible and not engage in any arguments with him. Ultimately, you have to decide which route is best for your own sanity and wellbeing.

Focus on rebuilding your connection with your son and increasing his relationship with other family members who may be a positive influence in his life. In the long run, it is far more beneficial to your son to have a mentally healthy parent present in his life than to have a distant relationship with an inappropriate family member.

No one deserves to be verbally or emotionally abused and it is noble of you to recognize the long-term ramifications of cutting off contact with your son's grandparents. However, if it comes down to you feeling completely drained and unhappy, then the decision to go no contact may be the best choice-even if it's not an easy one.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Alpacalia

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Focus on rebuilding your connection with your son and increasing his relationship with other family members who may be a positive influence in his life. In the long run, it is far more beneficial to your son to have a mentally healthy parent present in his life than to have a distant relationship with an inappropriate family member.

This^ It's far more important that your son has a mentally healthy, happy mother who is raising him than the relationship he has with the other family member.  Go NC with them.

[Stret]

With narcissistic mothers it is very common that they make one of their children a "golden child" and the other one a scapegoat. 
For how to deal with these types of family dynamics, see Nicole LaPera (the holistic psychologist) on Instagram and she also has Twitter. Invest hours to read her posts, it will be well-spent in terms of educating yourselves and getting the kind of guidance that you seen on this forum. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Oh man, I would say you need to make sure you at at your emotional peak, as in the healthiest you can be. Because these two characters are really difficult, impossibly difficult, to deal with. 

You have been injured by growing up in this family. Beyond the latest dysfunction, you have been wounded growing up in such a family. Be aware of that, and if you find yourself spiraling down, get some help. 

I second the recommendation to go a lawyer to see about what you can do to not have all your mother's assets go to narcissistic son-brother. In my experience, it is REALLY hard to overcome the disappointment and bitterness if you get totally pushed out of inheriting assets from a parent. So I say don't reconcile yourself to losing all the assets. Go to the lawyer, a really good one, and see what you can do. 

Sometimes just a note from a lawyer's office can prompt change of behavior, but there are other options out there for sure. A good family or eldercare lawyer or estate attorney will also have practical wisdom on dealing with the narcissistic brother who is controlling and taking all the assets. Estate attorneys see that all the time. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Bue-aidez]

22 hours ago, JenJo2024 said:

I'm struggling with navigating relationships with 2 members of my immediate family. It is causing me emotional distress regularly and I need some support/advice.

The first person is my brother. He is a textbook narcissist. Unable to show empathy, is self centered, abusive, overbearing and loves to minimize others contributions and make himself out to be the martyr in most situations. I recently found out that my brother took control of my mothers assets. The family knew some of it was happening (long story), but it wasn't supposed to completely just go to him. Now he gets everything and the rest of us are left with nothing. He took it all and lied about  it. I've requested he fix things and make it right, but he has ignored me thus far. He is the type of person that pushing the issue will lead to the two of us going no contact. He and I have go no contact before and went a decade without talking. It was bliss. I didn't miss his b.s.

The second person is my mother. She is mentally ill and an emotionally immature parent. We've never had the typical parent-child relationship. I've always been parentified and made to feel responsible for her feelings and problems. She neglected me throughout most of my childhood and failed to provide me with the things I needed. I've confronted her about this new situation and how things were moved to my brothers name and she doesn't care. I don't think she has the mental capacity to understand what has transpired, nor does she care how it has made me feel.

Right now, I'm holding them both at arm's length and struggle not to toss the two of them out of our lives and slam the door closed. They belittle me and take me on expensive guilt trips with their own problems and things they think I should be doing for them. I've set some minimal boundaries to protect myself which they both resent and they trample over.

I know many people will say I should just go no contact. What stops me is my son. I've been hanging onto these relationships not because I love either of these relative but because of the relationships they have with my son (age 8). 

Give me your honest thoughts...What should I do? I'm miserable and falling apart trying to deal with these two people. I don't feel like I want to cut them off completely because of my son, but I'm not sure how much more I can stand before I break. Thanks for your wisdom ❤️

 

I think you already know what to do. You've already said it. 

 

I guess what's making it difficult is your son's relationship with them. If you look at the long term effects of having such relatives around your son, is it worth keeping them around? What could he learn from them? 

[ShyViolet]

If they are so toxic to you, why on earth would you want them in your son's life???  That truly makes no sense.  Cut them out of your life now, when your son is still young and before he develops any deeper relationship with them that would be harder to cut off.  Go no-contact.  This is a no brainer.

[justwhoiam]

Hi,

it seems like they did nothing wrong, legally. Your mom can entrust anyone she feels like. Morally, two children should be treated the same. Legally, no, as you're both adults and she has a better relationship with him.

You didn't share what kind of mental issue your mother has, so it's difficult to give more specific advice. If it's a mental issue that affects her financial judgement and/or other important areas of her life (is she fully independent? can she take meds by herself?), she definitely needs someone managing her assets. What are they? Home and bank account? Or does she also have investments, bonds, shares, other real estate properties? See a lawyer who knows what the local laws are and how to protect your child's interest. For example, let's say that your brother uses up all of her money, and then she becomes paralized and needs 24/7 care. He might not be able to afford or might lose his job, and you'd be left to foot the bill. So you need to take all the steps to prevent that from happening: either ask for joint power (but where you need double signatures for everything you want to do, otherwise your brother could still operate on his own), or make it legally clear that you're totally out of it (in which case you'd avoid any debt too). I think that if you have proof of past neglect/abuse during childhood, you're not legally bound to step in to pay for her. But to know for sure what your rights are and how to protect your son, you'd have to see a lawyer.

Regarding the relationship between your son and his grandmother and uncle, take some time to think about it. You don't have to make such decision in a hurry. But I guess I would not leave him alone with them at any time. And I would postpone any meeting with him. Let a few weeks or months go by. Will your mother reach out to you?

[S2B]

Why would you want your very young son to have any relationship with these toxic people?