URGENT Please MORE advice for a calculating sincere guy

[jack]

MY Ex phoned. I think she was wondering why I hadn't called today. I told her about the date a friend of mine had set up for me for tomorrow night, changed from Friday. SHE WAS VERY INTERESTED in this information, wanted to know details about the girl, where we were going, AND TOLD ME TO CALL HER after the date no matter what time. "Call me" in an adament tone, were her final words. I now want to cancel this date but am going to go because I told her I was going. SHOULD I CALL afterwards and if so WHAT SHOULD I SAY????? Don't want to sound calculating but should I make it sound like we got along, didn't get along, had fun, was thinking of her the whole time??? WHAT does one say when there ex tells them to call after a date and you want her back????? CONFUSED. ANY HELP greatly appreciated.....

[Tony T]

This whole exchange between you and your ex was pretty juvenile. Your life is NONE of her business at this point. You also have no obligation to call her after a date. This whole game playing thing is pretty sickening.

 

You are obviously wanting to get back with your ex for some reason. But let me tell you, she is NOT interested in getting back with you. It's just a female thing to want information...in her case it's quite sick because she called you straight away instead of getting the information through other sources.

 

If you want to do something to drive your ex crazy and get her interested in you again, don't call her and don't return her calls for a while. If you conduct a juvenile exchange with her, she'll know how phoney it all is and she'll get pretty tired of it.

 

Again, it's only natural for an ex to be curious but she is NOT, repeat NOT interested in getting back with you and will absolutely never be if you cooperate with her sickening demands.

 

This go 'round, ignore her, don't call her and go out and have a great time on your date.

 

You've got to be out of your everlovin' mind to consider cancelling this date.

 

In this particular case, you ex doesn't want to date you but she really doesn't want anyone else dating you either. If she really wanted to be with you, she would be. She is phoney, insincerely, deceitful, cunning, and in my opinion not the kind of lady most men would want for a long term mate.

 

I know you won't listen to me here. You've got to learn the hard way. I had to learn the hard way and you do to. When we are in DUH love, we lose our senses and rationality. It's OK...I'm still your buddy. I'll be here when this ex of yours rings your neck a second time. It's OK. You'll survive.

 

Just promise me after she jerks you around a few more times, you'll learn a lesson and stay away from her. Shes a user and a manipulator. I know. I've been there more than a few times. She shows all the symptoms. She's a user because she doesn't want any other woman getting from you what she could get from you...materially, not sexually (so don't flatter yourself).

 

You've got a LOT to learn about women, dude!!!

 

And the next time she calls wondering why you haven't called her, tell her you just didn't want to!!!

[jack]

Pretty heavy stuff Tony but I see it a different way. We were best friends & lovers for 2 years, really close. We still maintain a close friendship. I know she's alot of the things you say but most women are. I think she just needs to be reminded that she really does still love me. She obviously feels threatened by another woman having me. Lets pretend for a moment that guys, perish the thought "play" women when the want them. What I really need here Tony is a woman's advice on what this girl is thinking and what she wants to hear. Believe me she was INTERESTED even wanted to know what time we would be roller blading (part of the date) so she could get a look at her. This is not passive, want of information, this was serious jealousy. Tony or the ladies ANYONE what does she want to hear about this date???

 

Does anyone have other advice except back off, don't call?

[jack]

One other thing Tony. Wouldn't I be breaking a trust in our friendship if I didn't call after she so insisted I do.

[jack]

One other thing struck me Tony. How do you know she doesn't want any other woman getting anything from me materially not sexually? "so don't flatter yourself" We had great sex. Does that comment come from some deep insequrity you may have?

[sparkle]

I know she's alot of the things you say but most women are.

HOLD UP ONE FREAKIN' SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOST WOMEN ARE??????? WHAT THE HECK???????????? How many women have you had a serious relationship with? 5? 3? ONE? Whatever the number, I can tell it's not too many.

 

You do not know the first thing about women, ESPECIALLY if you think most women are like that.

 

Tony was right. She's a user and a manipulator. And you have a lot to learn about women.

I think she just needs to be reminded that she really does still love me.

Why does it matter? Why do you care if she needs to be reminded? You two have broken up, remember? Leave it at that.

She obviously feels threatened by another woman having me.

That's cause she has some major issues. Most normal women are able to put their ex behind them and not feel threatened by his future girlfriends. Why is it any of her business who you talk to now. You two have broken up, remember??

What I really need here Tony is a woman's advice on what this girl is thinking and what she wants to hear.

Why do you care what she's thinking? Why do you care what she wants to hear? Forget about her and move on. Once again, you two have broken up, remember???

Believe me she was INTERESTED even wanted to know what time we would be roller blading (part of the date) so she could get a look at her.

AND YOU TOLD HER???????? What is wrong with you?

This is not passive, want of information, this was serious jealousy.

No, actually it's called an immature, screwed up chick. Why would you even want to be with her again? She sounds possessive and unstable and insecure. She has no right to ask you this information.

Tony or the ladies ANYONE what does she want to hear about this date??? Does anyone have other advice except back off, don't call?

You want "other advice except back off, don't call"? Sure. Call her now. Call her every single hour. Call her every day from now on. Run home after your date, call your ex up and tell her every single detail...don't forget mentioning what time you used the restroom, what you had for dinner, what cologne you put on, and whether your date is an incredible kisser or not. And keep this up for at least a week. Hopefully by then, she will be so extremely sick of you that she will BEG you not to call her ever again.

 

What's wrong with us telling you to back off and don't call? You posted here to get our honest advice, remember? Now you are telling us to give you advice other than what we think/know is the BEST thing to do?

 

We wouldn't tell you to stop calling her just because we had something against you and wanted you to be miserable. We DO NOT KNOW YOU. That's the best thing about this. That way, we are totally neutral, we have no hangups, and we can offer you the BEST ADVICE that we know of. And a lot of people are speaking from years and years of experience or many relationships' worth of experience.

 

You either take it or leave it. But don't ask us to sugarcoat our advice and twist it around into something that you want to hear.

 

That is just plain wrong.

[sparkle]

One other thing Tony. Wouldn't I be breaking a trust in our friendship if I didn't call after she so insisted I do.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but your friendship ended when your relationship did. I know you'll deny it but it's true. Maybe after many months, you two might be able to have a real friendship again, but what you have right now isn't one.

 

Most people aren't able to be friends with their ex. Sad but true...very true.

 

Stop hanging on by the last thread...cut it off, and move on.

[Tony T]

YOU ASK: "One other thing struck me Tony. How do you know she doesn't want any other woman getting anything from me materially not sexually?"

 

I know this because, AS I TOLD YOU, I have been there many times. I've seen this happen over and over and over and over and over, TO ME...and to others. Her behavior is like the snake that you cut with a shovel and it keeps on moving, and you cut it again...and all its parts keep shaking and wagging for a while. The snake is dead...but it keeps wiggling. The same here. The realtionship is over...but it just keeps wiggling and may continue for a while. Not only is it dead now but it didn't have a chance from the start. You only deluded yourself.

 

She very well may not want anyone having you sexually either. She probably doesn't want you having anything to do with another woman from any aspect...BUT SHE DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU EITHER.

 

Yes, you could get her back temporarily but you'll lose her again. Once a user is done, the only way you can totally get rid of them is not to talk to them, not to call them. Man, this lady has you wrapped around her little finger and she knows it. She can dangle you and make you do anything she wants. A woman DOES NOT WANT A GUY LIKE THAT. Even users get sick of easy prey. Even users want a challenge.

 

Go take a cold shower and come back to the computer, I'll wait..................................................................................................................................................................................

 

What woman in the universe, who you have dated previously, is going to have the gonads to call you and ask you details of a date you've had??? A lady who cares about you deeply doesn't want to hear that kind of stuff cause it hurts. But a user has no problem listening to that stuff because she has NO EMOTIONAL CONNECTION TO YOU, she just wants to know if your new girl is going to try to get things from you that she wasn't able to.

 

You'll learn. It's OK. It took me years to learn. I'm trying to teach you. I don't think nature wants you to learn from a forum. You have got to get chopped up a little. That's OK. Just keep all this in mind.

 

YOU ALSO WROTE: "Does that comment come from some deep insequrity you may have?"

 

The only deep insecurity I have is about not winning the lottery. I have played most Saturdays for 11 years and only got three numbers five times and four numbers twice. I feel very insecure about winning the lottery.

 

As for talking about this lady, I have experience with these types of people, lots of it. Take advantage of my experience or pay no attention to it. You choice. But you asked this question because of YOUR OWN INSECURITY, not mine.

 

Why in the name of heaven do you want to play these juvenile games with an ex???

 

When you get to the point of actually wanting to face the truth, you're going to look back...your face will turn RED, and you will see the fool you have been played for.

 

That's OK, too. I've been there.

[Tony T]

l. "Pretty heavy stuff Tony but I see it a different way."

 

Well, of course you do. That's why you asked for advice from dispassionate observers.

 

2. "We were best friends & lovers for 2 years, really close. We still maintain a close friendship."

 

You thought you were best friends. You fooled yourself into thinking that...that's OK. If she was your friend, after the break up she would want the very best for you. She doesn't want that. She wants the very best for HER.

 

I have NEVER, EVER had a close friend who called me prior to a date and wanted a full report afterwards, maybe a few...but NOT ONE OF THEM was a girl I had just broken up with...NOT ONE...EVER!!!!

 

3. "I know she's alot of the things you say but most women are."

 

God, I would really hate to think that. Since I know a lot of really bad users but NEVER EVER HAS ONE asked to hear details of a date I've had, I would say she pretty well stands out among women.

 

4. "I think she just needs to be reminded that she really does still love me. She obviously feels threatened by another woman having me."

 

Hey, Bub, the two of you ARE BROKEN UP...FINISHED...THROUGH. Yes, she does feel threatened. But it's a woman's ego thing, it has absolutely nothing to do with you at all...it has to do with her ego. Animals are territorial. A dog doesn't let me in the back yard of its owner...it will bite me if I climb the fence. Women are territorial. They don't want another woman in their territory. Until she get's used to the fact that you are no longer her territory, she will continue pissing around you to mark her territory. But, like the dog, it ONLY has to do with territory...not with the back yard...not with you.

 

5. "Lets pretend for a moment that guys, perish the thought "play" women when the want them. What I really need here Tony is a woman's advice on what this girl is thinking and what she wants to hear."

 

I think sparkle has given you some excellent insight. I believe she is close to your age...but you can ask her for those statistics. I am only qualified to give you an objective view, not from a male perspective or a female perspective. I was a newspaper and television reporter for years...I only know how to write objectively unless assigned to do otherwise.

 

6. "Believe me she was INTERESTED even wanted to know what time we would be roller blading (part of the date) so she could get a look at her. This is not passive, want of information, this was serious jealousy."

 

No, this was not serious jealousy, it was serious SICKNESS. She is seeing just how much of a fool she can make you. Like I said below, if this girl cared for you even a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit emotionally and she was sane, she would not want to hear details of a date you had. That would be very hurtful for her.

 

But because she is a user, hearing about your date is strictly a business thing...no emotion to it. She just wants to hear what you did with the other girl and gave to the other girl that you never gave to her. Let's say on the outside chance I'm wrong and that she still loves you. In that case, she has a SEVERE case of masochism as well as arrested development in wanting to hear these kinds of details and a sane guy would run fast and run far away from her.

 

7. "Tony or the ladies ANYONE what does she want to hear about this date???"

 

I have already answered this question. But one more reason is she wants to see just how stupid you are. Only an immature idiot who is a lovesick wimp would go out on a date for the sole purpose of getting home as soon as possible in order to call the ex he's still in love with to make her jealous with the embellished details (or think he is).

 

I don't even know how a shrink would describe a guy who calls his ex ahead of time to tell her exactly what time he and his date would be at a specific spot and time it out so his ex could get a look at her. That's not even in the books yet.

 

This girl is not stupid. She is smart and cunning. MOST women are a hell of a lot smarter than men. When you call her after your date, the second she hears your voice, she will think "this guy is more stupid, more of a sucker than I ever thought. Wow, I can play this guy like a fiddle. This guy is so in love with me he would go out with another girl just to make me jealous. Oh wow, I think I'm getting sick. Let me hear what he's got to say real quick and I'll keep this bag hear in case I have to barf before I hang up."

 

Those will be her thoughts.

 

I know you don't want to hear this...so I'll tell you what I'm going to do in the interest of fairness. I'm going to write what you want to hear. Here it goes:

 

__________________________________________________________

 

THE OPPOSITE VIEW (What you want to hear):

 

l. "Pretty heavy stuff Tony but I see it a different way."

 

Oh, no, I'm with you man. Cancel this date immediately and call your ex and tell her you cancelled the date just for her.

 

2. "We were best friends & lovers for 2 years, really close. We still maintain a close friendship."

 

You bet. She's a real good friend. You kissed her, loved her, had sex with her. You absolutely owe it to her to call her with all the details of your life until she tells you otherwise. What else are ex's for than to call and give all the details of dates with new girls. Cool, man!!!

 

3. "I know she's alot of the things you say but most women are."

 

Yep, every woman I've ever dated...when we broke up...every one of them asked me to call with details of subsequent dates. They wanted every detail. It was an educational thing, I suppose. But they were great friends and I thought the only friendly thing I could do was give them a ring when I got home.

 

I would always call them at two or three and apologize for calling so late because I had screwed my date two or three times so we went late into the night. My ex's understood. They were great. They always asked me if I used a rubber or not. They were all concerned about me getting STD's and stuff. They loved me so much. What guy could ask for more?

 

4. "I think she just needs to be reminded that she really does still love me. She obviously feels threatened by another woman having me."

 

Yes, you do need to remind her and she needs to be reminded. Call her often to tell her you love her. Send her cards, letters, etc. Start asking her out. I mean, if she wants to know you love her and you're great friends, I mean there's no reason you shouldn't take her out once or twice a week. As a matter of fact, you could tell her about your other dates in person rather than over the phone.

 

Telling her about other girls you go out with and have sex with will absolutely remind her of how much she loves you. And when you get married, send her a wedding invitation so she can attend. That will REALLY remind her of how much she loves you. She may even help you with the down payment on a house for you and your bride...her being the close and wonderful friend she is.

 

5. "Lets pretend for a moment that guys, perish the thought "play" women when the want them. What I really need here Tony is a woman's advice on what this girl is thinking and what she wants to hear."

 

Well, sparkle did that above but she was way way wrong. Your ex is clearly craving your love and your body. She wants you back. She is clearly giving you signals to ask her out. Why don't you do that? She loves you more than anything in the world. She broke up with you so she could see how much she misses you. Put her out of pain and call her this very moment as she if you can go hang with her at her place!!!

 

6. "Believe me she was INTERESTED even wanted to know what time we would be roller blading (part of the date) so she could get a look at her."

 

Wow, this girl loves you so much she wants to make sure that other girls you go out with treat you well. GREAT. That is proof positive this girl loves you more than anything in the world. This is the sign. This is your cue. This is absolutely magic. Wow. You have found the love of your life. Be sure to give her the correct time and where she can sit to get a great look at your date. This is such a love story I'm going to cry.

 

I can't believe sparkle was so far off on this one. She is usually right on the mark.

 

7. "This is not passive, want of information, this was serious jealousy."

 

Oh, God, you don't even know. She is green with jealousy. Put her out of her misery. Promise her you'll always give her every detail of your other dates and that you will always cancel any one of them she asks you to. Tell her you will always put having sex with her FIRST before having sex with any other woman. That will be music to her ears.

 

8. "Tony or the ladies ANYONE what does she want to hear about this date???"

 

She wants to hear that you had a terrible time on your date...that you miss her dearly...that it is impossible for you to be with other women...that you want her back in the worst way. She wants you to ask her how soon you can see her. She wants to hear that you will always have great love for her and her only. (You can go on from hear, I have a feeling you'll be great at it)

 

9. "Does anyone have other advice except back off, don't call?"

 

Hell, no, don't back off. Call her often, go to her place with flowers. Talk to her as often as you can, ask her out. Reassure her that she is your number one and always will be. If you can afford it, send her a nice piece of jewelry.

 

This is a relationship made in heaven.

 

_______________________________________________________

 

Now, there, you have it from opposite viewpoints. I don't do this for everybody but YOU are special.

[Miss Mojo]

....what she is saying about ex's being friends (or rather, not being able to be friends) is 110% true. it is one of the hardest things a person will ever have to do, (next to figuring out the meaning of life).

 

why on earth people feel they need to be friends when a relationship ends is beyond me...but hey, this is only my opinion. i don't judge those who want to head down that road.

 

if you remain friends with an ex, you will never fully be able to move towards a new relationship. like sparkle said, you're always hanging on by that last thread....hoping that maybe someday this great friendship will lead you to say, "what the hell are we thinking....we do get along great don't we. let's get back together". well, that is all fine and dandy for the movies, but not for real life.

 

when i read the way your ex is behaving, it sounds to me as though she is just curious. no girl in their right mind who was completely hung up on an ex would want to know about how a date went, what the girl looks like etc. i would ask this information of a guy who i wasn't interested in at all, but i would most certainly not ask my ex these things. why? because it would bloody hurt too much.

 

from my girl's point of view, this girl is playing games. i also got the feeling that maybe she is wanting information because it's quite possible she is over you.

 

if you really want her back that badly, or if you want to see if she wants you, get on with your life for now. if she truly wants you as her boyfriend, she will let you know when you stop hanging off her every word.

 

good luck to you, and i hope you can start to move on

[Tony T]

YOU ASK: "Wouldn't I be breaking a trust in our friendship if I didn't call after she so insisted I do."

 

First of all, what friendship are you speaking of? She has not asked you to call her out of friendship...she has asked you to call out of sickness, morbid curiosity, etc.

 

Since the relationship is over, trying to characterize her as a friend, at least for now, is not appropriate.

 

As far as breaking a trust, SHE is the one who is SEVERELY abusing trust and your alleged friendship by asking you to call her when you get home from your date. It is just plain sick and ignorant.

 

You are headed for some sorry times if you go along with this.

 

I am so sorry you fell in love with this girl and even sorrier you want her back.

 

You sound like the type who is going to call her no matter what people say. You came here bowed at your computer, praying to the Gods that someone would encourage you to make this call. So do what you want. It is just so sick and silly.

 

You are headed for some very serious pain in your life until you get a lot more strong emotionally. But everybody has to go at their own speed...not putting you down. It took me a long time as well...I just HATE to see you make the same mistakes I did.

[jack]

I agree calling after the date is the wrong thing to do. Is it possible she is not a user & manipulator (I've never seen her act like she did in that phone call after I told her about the date) but is having a change of heart about our breakup? We did seem to be making friendly progress. Her reaction to the date really threw me, it was VERY out of character. I WILL NOT CALL afterwards, you all are right that would be pathetic, BUT is it possible she is simply beginning to feel she made a mistake in breaking up? If so how do I handle the date thing if she does call??

[Tony T]

All things are possible. Yes, she could be having second thoughts. But don't get a lot of hope up. As I told you before TWICE, a girl who really cares about you WOULD NOT want to go through the pain of hearing about your date.

 

If she calls after your date, DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE. Turn off the ringer or take the phone off the hook and go to sleep.

 

If you actually feel that she is trying to get back together, unless she goes about it a little more rationally, you need to avoid her. She is pretty wacky.

 

The process of getting back should include you stepping back and away from the situation, not talking to her for a bit of time, making a very cool-headed assessment of everything, and making a decision.

 

If you make it very easy for her to come back into your life, you will send her a message that she can leave you anytime she wants and she'll be free to come right back.

 

I don't think she wants back. I think she's just going through withdrawal symptoms. As I told you before and based on years of experience, if the two of you did get back under these kind of sick circumstances she would dump your butt again in short order.

 

But you've got to go through this for yourself in order to learn. I wish you Godspeed.

[jack]

All things are possible. Yes, she could be having second thoughts. But don't get a lot of hope up. As I told you before TWICE, a girl who really cares about you WOULD NOT want to go through the pain of hearing about your date. If she calls after your date, DO NOT ANSWER THE PHONE. Turn off the ringer or take the phone off the hook and go to sleep. If you actually feel that she is trying to get back together, unless she goes about it a little more rationally, you need to avoid her. She is pretty wacky. The process of getting back should include you stepping back and away from the situation, not talking to her for a bit of time, making a very cool-headed assessment of everything, and making a decision. If you make it very easy for her to come back into your life, you will send her a message that she can leave you anytime she wants and she'll be free to come right back. I don't think she wants back. I think she's just going through withdrawal symptoms. As I told you before and based on years of experience, if the two of you did get back under these kind of sick circumstances she would dump your butt again in short order. But you've got to go through this for yourself in order to learn. I wish you Godspeed.

 

OK Tony I will heed your advice. I do feel she is having second thoughts (I know her pretty well) but you are right not to make it too easy for her. Specific question. Should I answer her call tommorow, I'm assuming she will call, what should I say about the date when & if I do answer her call? How should I talk to her now? Confused.

[Tony T]

If you must, answer her call...keep it short...keep it light...if she asks about the date, tell her you had a good time and THAT'S ALL. If she asks for more details, just tell her you feel your dates with other people are personal and you respect people's privacy. It'll piss her off at first but she'll admire the fact that you do keep things private and that you will never discuss the details of your dates with her with other people.

 

Make very sure you keep the conversation SHORT and DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES discuss the two of you getting back together. If you do that, you'll blow the whole thing. Make her sweat...if indeed that's what she's doing.

 

This is such a stupid, silly child's game. I hate to see you stoop to this level of moronic behavior. Don't do it for long.

 

You're on your own from here, bub. I feel like I'm compromising my own dignity by participating in this. Sorry.

 

Over and out...and out of here!!!

[Laurynn]

Jack, Jack, Jack....

 

You come across as being so completely desperate and obsessed with your ex, and not having much pride or self respect.

 

Now, about the fact that you're going out on a date. Why are you doing that? It's abundantly clear that you're no where near being over your ex, that you're not in the right 'frame of mind' to be dating someone......so do you honestly think it's "fair" to go on a date with someone/possibly lead them on, when the truth is, you're still extremely hung up on your ex? What is this DATE all about, anyway? A diversion? Something you did just to 'tell your ex' so that you can a) make her jealous..b) piss her off...c) see if it will bother her enough to make her come running back into your arms?

 

Okay, so now you're asking WHEN you should next call your EX, what you should say, etc. How many times (and I mean no offense here) are we going to tell you that you need to leave her alone? DO NOT CALL HER. DO NOT TAKE HER CALLS. Get on with your life. Right now, you're entire world and every waking minute revolves around your hopes of getting your ex back, and hanging on her every move and word. This is NOT healthy.

 

Are you desperate? Do you not think you're worth MORE than to have to go through all of this? She broke up with you. It doesn't get much clearer than that, that she was no longer interested in you. Do you need someone to draw you a picture, or put a flashing neon sign on your front lawn? Why are you holding on by a thread, to someone who dumped your ass? No pride? No self respect or self esteem? Self worth?

 

It's none of her freaking business what you do, who you date..though I do suspect YOU are the one who gladly told her about your upcoming date, just to make her jealous/get a reaction out of her.

 

I think you need to forget dating at this time. Get some counselling, get your life and focus back on track. Forget your ex (this will take time). Keep busy, get some new interests/hobbies....hang out with friends, make new ones.....stop sitting at home by the phone. Stop wondering WHEN you'll hear from her, whether you should call her, what you'll say. Time to get with the program, I swear to God.

 

L