Relationship problems

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, L1991 said:

   I’ve laid it all out now for her to message 

Excellent. Leave it at that, let the dust settle and wait for her to reach out.

Unfortunately there seems to be some major communication and other incompatibilities that may need to be ironed out.

Take this time for yourself to reflect why you feel angry in the relationship. 

[L1991]

1 hour ago, Versacehottie said:

Hmmm, I agree it could feel or seem awkward or as if you are on the rocks....I think though one thing you could do to not make it feel or seem that way is: rather than perceive it as if she is the gatekeeper to your relationship or effectively locked you out of spending time together, I would recommend REFRAMING it as if the bit of space and time would be good for you as well. That simple shift in your head should greatly help. And I don't think it's a trick either--I would guess it's true. If you've been stressed at work, you probably are stretched too thin and maybe need some time to recover after a hard day that is just for you. Or you with friends so it's less of a pressure cooker to what it is with her. I think you should take the time for yourself and meet up shortly before the two week outing with her brother...I think it would be awkward to just jump right into that with other people so see each other alone a couple of days before.

I think one thing that understandably upsets you is that she seems to call all the shots on the relationship or at least has here on this one that could be very damaging. It's unilateral and one-sided. How do you take back your power and feel ok with it? Recognize the good that can come out of it just for you. I actually would guess if you "agree" to this space, she won't like it and will appreciate you more...especially if she is the anxious type. This can be a common ploy for anxious people tbh. They throw a tantrum effectively and then hope it will spur you to some action that they want which isn't the "space" but something else. She might not even be doing this maliciously or consciously. I think it's best to respond to this one-sided things or relationship "threats" by accepting them so they don't become something that happens over and over. You can "accept" them in a way that works for you cognitively...also maybe some space is what you need so YOU can consider the future of the relationship. Good luck

Thanks, I guess my mind is just going into overdrive mode right now and I’m worrying and overthinking myself.  This is the first time she’s just agreed to when I’ve said I need to step back and stop talking to allow space.  Usually she says she doesn’t want that and wants to work through the tough times and communicate.  Like I said she said last night she still wants to talk, and has acknowledged the birth control has affected her.  But I will wait and see what happens towards the end of this week before reaching out again.   She normally says goodnight every night so I expect her to say that again tonight which is fine.   But like she said she just needs time and space to forget about the arguments.  
 

after I laid it all out to her today she said she appreciates my message and said she just needs the time and space.  She said she wishes I said all this in person rather than text or phone.  I said well I would but you won’t meet me and she said it’s fine.   She seemed to think I open up more in text which isn’t necessarily true in my eyes but I didn’t say that.  I then said il stop talking now and take on board both sides of everything and will wait for her to reach out so we can have fun again. She just replied with ok and I didn’t reply.  

[L1991]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Excellent. Leave it at that, let the dust settle and wait for her to reach out.

Unfortunately there seems to be some major communication and other incompatibilities that may need to be ironed out.

Take this time for yourself to reflect why you feel angry in the relationship. 

That’s fine and I’m willing to communicate in a mature manner going forward and not go angry or escalate things.  Which is what she wanted too.  In my eyes if she truly loves me she will forget the argument and work with me on this.   My take is how long do I wait before she reaches out properly to meet.  

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, L1991 said:

Thanks, I guess my mind is just going into overdrive mode right now and I’m worrying and overthinking myself.  This is the first time she’s just agreed to when I’ve said I need to step back and stop talking to allow space.  Usually she says she doesn’t want that and wants to work through the tough times and communicate.  Like I said she said last night she still wants to talk, and has acknowledged the birth control has affected her.  But I will wait and see what happens towards the end of this week before reaching out again.   She normally says goodnight every night so I expect her to say that again tonight which is fine.   But like she said she just needs time and space to forget about the arguments.  
 

after I laid it all out to her today she said she appreciates my message and said she just needs the time and space.  She said she wishes I said all this in person rather than text or phone.  I said well I would but you won’t meet me and she said it’s fine.   She seemed to think I open up more in text which isn’t necessarily true in my eyes but I didn’t say that.  I then said il stop talking now and take on board both sides of everything and will wait for her to reach out so we can have fun again. She just replied with ok and I didn’t reply.  

Yeah to the bolded, I would have guessed that you are also a overthinker, anxious etc.  So I guess it's good that you are aware of it. The thing is you can't just proceed as if anxious feelings etc have a ton of merit or justification for anything you do on your end (same with her!!)...It usually will make whatever you want come true. I only had time to read your original post...so are you saying that you also effectively "threaten" her with needing a break that you either regret or don't mean now that you really wanted.  That is typical anxious behavior in a relationship. Without realizing it you might have been wanting to twist her arm into behaving as you wanted. Now you are upset that she agreed that space was a good thing. My advice is the same even if you are the one who started this...Reframe it in your mind and embrace the space for the benefits the space can provide you. I think going back on your word--both to her and to yourself is what teaches you that you can't trust yourself and can make a person even more clingy and desperate. You can't really change what the other person thinks with MORE of being around each other when you are emotionally charged. Better to reset yourself and come back to it with her without resentment and some self-awareness. Not super easy to do but you can if you want to change. 

The second bolded is sort of hint to me that you are indeed anxious. Looking for these signs of reassurance. What is the worst that would happen if you two were no longer together? I think that is what you need to be considering and getting comfortable with right now. Even the fact that you got in touch again like you had "one more thing to say" is typical of anxious behavior in relationships--so both of you might be...and now she is effectively stonewalling you potentially. Sounds like it can be very one-sided. IMO you won't be able to change how that person interacts with you, without changing something in your approach toward her. You need to center yourself by telling yourself and believing it that you will be ok either way, even if the relationship falls apart. Good luck

[L1991]

1 hour ago, Versacehottie said:

Yeah to the bolded, I would have guessed that you are also a overthinker, anxious etc.  So I guess it's good that you are aware of it. The thing is you can't just proceed as if anxious feelings etc have a ton of merit or justification for anything you do on your end (same with her!!)...It usually will make whatever you want come true. I only had time to read your original post...so are you saying that you also effectively "threaten" her with needing a break that you either regret or don't mean now that you really wanted.  That is typical anxious behavior in a relationship. Without realizing it you might have been wanting to twist her arm into behaving as you wanted. Now you are upset that she agreed that space was a good thing. My advice is the same even if you are the one who started this...Reframe it in your mind and embrace the space for the benefits the space can provide you. I think going back on your word--both to her and to yourself is what teaches you that you can't trust yourself and can make a person even more clingy and desperate. You can't really change what the other person thinks with MORE of being around each other when you are emotionally charged. Better to reset yourself and come back to it with her without resentment and some self-awareness. Not super easy to do but you can if you want to change. 

The second bolded is sort of hint to me that you are indeed anxious. Looking for these signs of reassurance. What is the worst that would happen if you two were no longer together? I think that is what you need to be considering and getting comfortable with right now. Even the fact that you got in touch again like you had "one more thing to say" is typical of anxious behavior in relationships--so both of you might be...and now she is effectively stonewalling you potentially. Sounds like it can be very one-sided. IMO you won't be able to change how that person interacts with you, without changing something in your approach toward her. You need to center yourself by telling yourself and believing it that you will be ok either way, even if the relationship falls apart. Good luck

I can be an overthinker yes, I won’t lie.  She just called me now as she was driving home from the gym. It was just normal chat like nothing happened.  I acted normal as well and that was that.  It’s a strange one. 

[L1991]

She also got annoyed with me as I messaged her brother yesterday to let him know if he wants he and his gf can stay at my house after we go for a night out in 2 weeks.  I was just being helpful.  She saw it as I just messaged him to ensure it happens as we’ve had an argument. As I also told her I’d booked something for us in October.   But I was just genuinely being helpful.   I then said if you don’t want to go with me for a night out in 2 weeks that’s fine il respect that.  Ideally I’d like to see you before then and have a good time.  She then said of course it won’t go on for that long, I called you earlier.   She then said goodnight and so did I.   So tomorrow I just won’t say a word and let her message.  

[basil67]

19 minutes ago, L1991 said:

She also got annoyed with me as I messaged her brother yesterday to let him know if he wants he and his gf can stay at my house after we go for a night out in 2 weeks.  I was just being helpful.  She saw it as I just messaged him to ensure it happens as we’ve had an argument.

Stop being helpful.  And no, I'm not being sarcastic.  Step back and let her arrange her own family...both now and in the future

And at this point, you don't even know if you will be going away with her in two weeks and her perception of your actions is easy to understand.  

 

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, L1991 said:

She also got annoyed with me as I messaged her brother yesterday to let him know if he wants he and his gf can stay at my house after we go for a night out in 2 weeks.  I was just being helpful.  She saw it as I just messaged him to ensure it happens as we’ve had an argument. As I also told her I’d booked something for us in October.   But I was just genuinely being helpful.   I then said if you don’t want to go with me for a night out in 2 weeks that’s fine il respect that.  Ideally I’d like to see you before then and have a good time.  She then said of course it won’t go on for that long, I called you earlier.   She then said goodnight and so did I.   So tomorrow I just won’t say a word and let her message.  

If I'm being honest, it's you with all the actions above that is acting like the anxious one. Sorry😅 You are doing the anxiously attached thing. Even you are trying to rationalize it as if you are just being "helpful"  and then with the bolded in a way that is like pressing for some information. TAKE. THE. SPACE. 

For each of you, if you are genuinely taking space, then there will be some repercussions...like maybe that offer to her brother would be one that comes at the last minute...maybe her brother is a big boy and can figure out where he's staying on his own or reach out to you on his own. And yeah you didn't need to mention October thing you booked...this is you unconsciously or maybe consciously trying to get reassurance from her or proceed as if everything will be the same--it may be but it may not be. October is a long time away. Also you are trying to do MORE and focus on her/your mutual relationship when you should be focusing on yourself. You cannot truly find your validation in other people. I say focus on yourself and try not to be so rattled. To tell you the truth if you were acting as you did today and yesterday after an agreed upon break, i'd be annoyed in her shoes...don't take her seemingly moment of sounding normal to mean much (that's anxious behavior, you think you are making it through or whew, that interaction was fine or whatever...when the truth is you guys are sort of at a crossroads. Don't fool yourself. I would not like it if there's effectively a call for change but it's just a bandaid change or you are waiting out the period (or NOT as you are doing with needy bits of contact) but aren't really reflecting and making good strides, personal growth.

[Alpacalia]

15 hours ago, L1991 said:

She has said before she understands things are not always going to be great but it’s how we get through these tough times and work together is what counts.   She said that not me.  I do feel the pill has affected her a lot.

I would try to avoid birth control in conversations with her about tough times. It's cute when men cite a woman's use of birth control, but it usually isn't well-received in most contexts. Of course, if you do have concerns about the pill's effects, then maybe it's worth sticking a pin in it just to see if she has any thoughts on the topic another time.

It's like "honey, I've noticed you've been cranky from your jock itch." 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, L1991 said:

 tomorrow I just won’t say a word and let her message.  

This is a great idea. Also don't contact her people or otherwise do end runs.

She's upset you yelled at her and displaced your anger on her. Give her the space she asks for.

Keep in mind she is probably talking to her people about it and they could be telling her you were verbally abusive.

Let her process in her own time and in her own way.

[L1991]

4 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I would try to avoid birth control in conversations with her about tough times. It's cute when men cite a woman's use of birth control, but it usually isn't well-received in most contexts. Of course, if you do have concerns about the pill's effects, then maybe it's worth sticking a pin in it just to see if she has any thoughts on the topic another time.

It's like "honey, I've noticed you've been cranky from your jock itch." 

Yeah she’s acknowledged herself that it’s affecting her.  I haven’t mentioned anything about it. 

[L1991]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is a great idea. Also don't contact her people or otherwise do end runs.

She's upset you yelled at her and displaced your anger on her. Give her the space she asks for.

Keep in mind she is probably talking to her people about it and they could be telling her you were verbally abusive.

Let her process in her own time and in her own way.

To be honest from knowing her well I’d be surprised if she’s talking to anyone else about it.  You could be right… but from what I know of her she likes to keep personal stuff about me and her to herself: this is due to the fact she doesn’t like other peoples opinions to cloud her judgement.   She may talk to her dad at some point if it was extremely getting her down but he’s on vacation for the next week now.   I suppose it’s a positive she called me last night for a normal conversation.  But I’m keeping it minimal and if we don’t meet up on the weekend I will tell her I’m completely distancing myself otherwise we have no chance of working.  She has said herself it’s not going to go to on for the next two weeks and acknowledged that she called me so I guess it’s small steps at a time.  

[basil67]

33 minutes ago, L1991 said:

f we don’t meet up on the weekend I will tell her I’m completely distancing myself otherwise we have no chance of working.

If you completely distance yourself, it also has no chance of working.  

[L1991]

12 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If you completely distance yourself, it also has no chance of working.  

This is where I’m struggling to figure out what to do….  She seems to text me with small talk, doesn’t wanna completely distance herself from me but also she’s still not over the argument and forgetting about it.  Small steps forward as she called me last night for a brief chat and said this situation won’t go on for long until we all go out which is in 2 weeks.   My thoughts were to ask to meet up this weekend and if she says no then say we can’t continue like this as it’s not healthy and ask how we work it out.  Because we can continue like this as I don’t know where we stand.  At the end of the day we had a disagreement over small things that can be easily rectified.  Yeah I get that she wants to see these changes in person.  
 

When she went through A lot of stress at her work at the beginning of this year, secured a new job and lost a family member I was nothing but supportive, understanding throughout it all.  I hope she can move past me not being totally right this past month and a half when I’ve been stressed and not myself.  I’ve recognised everything and promised to rectify it all. 

[basil67]

30 minutes ago, L1991 said:

At the end of the day we had a many disagreement arguments over small things that can can't  be easily rectified.  Yeah I get that she wants to see these changes in person.  

You're minimising the issues.  And while you do this, you have no chance of making things better.   What you've described are bigger than disagreements over small things.  And it was ongoing over a couple of months.  And if it was easy to rectify, it would have been rectified long before she got to the point of needing space. 

Perhaps in her innocence she hoping to forget the arguments, but she doesn't know that people don't forget arguments.  Rather, they forgive when they feel ready.  But those argument still linger in the backs of our brain and if it happens again, they resurface as we start to see patterns. 

Do you think she also sees the topics of your arguments as "small things"?  Or do you think she sees them as being important? 

30 minutes ago, L1991 said:

 I hope she can move past me not being totally right this past month and a half when I’ve been stressed and not myself.  I’ve recognised everything and promised to rectify it all. 

It's easy to be a good partner when times are good. But the proof of whether or not we are a good partner is when times are bad.  Surely you knew that your behaviour was bad at the time, so why didn't you give yourself a kick up the rear end when it was happening?  

 

[L1991]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're minimising the issues.  And while you do this, you have no chance of making things better.   What you've described are bigger than disagreements over small things.  And it was ongoing over a couple of months.  And if it was easy to rectify, it would have been rectified long before she got to the point of needing space. 

Perhaps in her innocence she hoping to forget the arguments, but she doesn't know that people don't forget arguments.  Rather, they forgive when they feel ready.  But those argument still linger in the backs of our brain and if it happens again, they resurface as we start to see patterns. 

Do you think she also sees the topics of your arguments as "small things"?  Or do you think she sees them as being important? 

It's easy to be a good partner when times are good. But the proof of whether or not we are a good partner is when times are bad.  Surely you knew that your behaviour was bad at the time, so why didn't you give yourself a kick up the rear end when it was happening?  

 

The morning of our argument (last Saturday) after some time she said herself they were only small things and it wasn’t like any of us cheated or anything big like that.   
 

at the time when I was maybe not as patient with her or angry in ways my judgement and thought process was clouded by wanting to do the best possible job in my new role, working late..  it’s only now after all this I can see it from both sides and willing to work on it all.  That contributed by the birth control affecting her mood as well didn’t help which she has acknowledged.   

[JTSW]

I'm going to give you my honest opinion here.

She sounds far too difficult and inexperienced.

The tiniest thing bothers her to the point of dragging it out for days.

What's the point of that?

It's clearly making you feel like you don't know if you're coming or going and confused as hell.

She points out all your flaws and everything she thinks you are doing wrong, but doesn't acknowledge her flaws.

I honestly don't recommend you continue this relationship.

She's making it too complicated.

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, L1991 said:

The morning of our argument (last Saturday) after some time she said herself they were only small things and it wasn’t like any of us cheated or anything big like that.   

If she really does see this as so minor, why isn't she wanting to see you?   Her refusal to see you combined with needing to "forget" what you said/did, tells me that she feels worse than you're describing.

[L1991]

46 minutes ago, JTSW said:

I'm going to give you my honest opinion here.

She sounds far too difficult and inexperienced.

The tiniest thing bothers her to the point of dragging it out for days.

What's the point of that?

It's clearly making you feel like you don't know if you're coming or going and confused as hell.

She points out all your flaws and everything she thinks you are doing wrong, but doesn't acknowledge her flaws.

I honestly don't recommend you continue this relationship.

She's making it too complicated.

 

Oh I will agree and she’s even said herself she is hard work. She’s very very stubborn and overthinks things so maybe doesn’t let things go for a while.  But she is amazing in other ways and I like in the past how she’s communicated and willing to fix things rather than just quitting.   She knows deep down what she does wrong as she’s acknowledged it before. But recently I know I’ve definitely made things bad by talking about money all the time, not focusing on fun together which I hope I get the chance to rectify. 

[L1991]

29 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If she really does see this as so minor, why isn't she wanting to see you?   Her refusal to see you combined with needing to "forget" what you said/did, tells me that she feels worse than you're describing.

She doesn’t want to see me right now, but she may do this weekend. Like she said it won’t go on for long into next week.  Said she wanted a few days to herself.  But I’ll ask to meet her Friday night this week.  If she says no that’s when I know then there’s a huge problem and will tell her straight this can’t go on. 

[L1991]

She messaged me to say her cousins have asked her to go to a quiz night this Friday and really want us there.  She asked me if she should say that it’s not my thing as she is really not in the mood to go.  I then said well I’ve never said it’s not my thing and it would be fun, I always do stuff with her family.   She then said she just doesn’t want us to argue whilst we are there or be in a mood.  I then said she is assuming again and needs to trust me that things will be fine and that we’ve discussed how I will take on board the things that were said.  She then just said ok and either way we are going anyway.   So I guess she’s just worrying we clash too much and it’s gonna be a thing she needs to see in person now.  Who knows if shel cancel on me come Friday.  

[JTSW]

3 hours ago, L1991 said:

She messaged me to say her cousins have asked her to go to a quiz night this Friday and really want us there.  She asked me if she should say that it’s not my thing as she is really not in the mood to go.  I then said well I’ve never said it’s not my thing and it would be fun, I always do stuff with her family.   She then said she just doesn’t want us to argue whilst we are there or be in a mood.  I then said she is assuming again and needs to trust me that things will be fine and that we’ve discussed how I will take on board the things that were said.  She then just said ok and either way we are going anyway.   So I guess she’s just worrying we clash too much and it’s gonna be a thing she needs to see in person now.  Who knows if shel cancel on me come Friday.  

Why couldn't you accept the she doesn't really want to go?

[L1991]

6 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Why couldn't you accept the she doesn't really want to go?

I would have accepted it. It’s just weeks ago she was really enthusiastic about it wanting me to go so it surprised me.  We talked more this afternoon and she said she just needs to get past some things.   She’s overthinking things I said in the heat of the moment.   That we’ve always kept busy together and done things like go out for food, cinema, bowling or drinks and when we’re along we are finding we are arguing.   I said I think she’s overthinking it and we’ve never had a problem on all the weekends we’ve spent alone at my house or when we’ve been alone in other places and she just responded by saying yeah that’s true.   
 

She said she wants to get past this but needs to build the trust back up which takes time. She said she’s not going to end things just like that but just needs to work through it which will take time but she won’t be all over me with affection on Friday.   She feels whenever she’s said stuff in person to me I’ve responded badly and like she’s hurting me and wants to get past it and move on from it.  She then said wel go to this quiz night Friday then go to her brothers house for drinks on Saturday and wel see how the weekend goes with us getting along.  She said she just needs to get past some things and that she doesn’t want to see my angry eyes again. I also told her one time when we were arguing to wait until we get home to discuss it as im not happy and she took that as if I was speaking to a child.   That’s fair enough so I said how I take on board everything she’s said and vow  sort it out.  I then said how I wanna move past it all and explained things then she said ok sounds good to me and I didn’t reply.   

[basil67]

5 hours ago, L1991 said:

She messaged me to say her cousins have asked her to go to a quiz night this Friday and really want us there.  She asked me if she should say that it’s not my thing as she is really not in the mood to go.  I then said well I’ve never said it’s not my thing and it would be fun, I always do stuff with her family.   She then said she just doesn’t want us to argue whilst we are there or be in a mood.  I then said she is assuming again and needs to trust me that things will be fine and that we’ve discussed how I will take on board the things that were said.  She then just said ok and either way we are going anyway.   So I guess she’s just worrying we clash too much and it’s gonna be a thing she needs to see in person now.  Who knows if shel cancel on me come Friday.  

Yep, I can see why she's frustrated with you.   She doesn't want to go and you pushed her to do it.   She is wary of your behaviour....and here you are, proving her point in dismissing her concerns and telling her what to think.   You're attaching yourself to her family when she doesn't want it to happen right now.   Given that you just clashed again  in this message, her concerns are very valid. 

If she doesn't want you there, I can't figure out why she even had this discussion with you.  Did her cousins invite you directly?  If so, she should have just uninvited you. She needs to trust herself more.

[basil67]

To clarify, instead of telling her she's over thinking and putting up an alternate argument, you should have simply said "I think we'll be fine, but if you want to pass, that's OK"  

And if she decided to pass, you should not go with her family without her.