Was I dating a man who preferred his parents? Some very unusual relationship dynamics.

[Samantha11]

47 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I think so. It's hard, I get it, I had to step away from something that felt right because of the signs I was getting and it wasn't an easy decision. Oh my goodness it was hard. If you are convinced he wasn't going to fix his pattern or if the guilt and apology made you stay longer than you should have then yes, it's best to end it. Patterns like these don't change overnight. It's better to leave it and move on with better quality relationships in the future. Because when you get stuck in this cycle, it's hard to break out of it without hurting yourself more in the process. Then it takes double the amount of effort to move on because it's not easy unpacking and relearning to love yourself and trust someone else again.

And just a sidebar on the sensing the good in people. I think that's a wonderful quality to have. With the caveat that measuring or quantifying intuition is challenging due to its nature as a visceral, instinctual sensation arising within an individual.

It emerges devoid of extensive cognitive analysis, often intertwined with emotional influences. Primarily rooted in prior encounters, intuition blends with present perceptions. However, these perceptions are often molded by the subliminal signals captured by the subconscious, which frequently stem from historical patterns and associations.

So when you are saying that you feel “something” is wrong or that something does not ‘feel’ right, it is likely that it is the release of a pre-existing perception. The most reliable way of measuring these visceral or instinctual reactions is through direct feedback from the individual. Or in this case, this man. Of course, things can guide you like recognition of bad behavior, body language, gestures, tone of voice, and record of previous occurrences. But you can't suggest that this person is "good" or "bad" for sure unless he provides you with feedback of what he did and how it made him feel and in turn how it felt to you.

And he's deflected on providing you these details. 

That is a good analysis. Are you a psychologist? Or in some related field?

I really appreciate your feedback. Like I said at the beginning of this post, my intent here was to learn from the experience, and leave something for others to learn from too if possible. I feel like I am learning a lot, and getting so much to think about, and you have been very insightful. 

[Samantha11]

30 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

It's a lot less obvious that being a typical arrogant tool, and it's very effective with people who want to give the benefit of the doubt and find the "awkwardness" endearing. 

Wow, I am learning a lot. This is really informative, and it is amazing to always find out new things. I guess it looks like the chances that he was just a jerk, albeit a rather nerdy one, are high. I am grateful I never slept with him, and that I never went beyond kissing.

He sent me very long emails almost every day over a period of almost three months that he said took him several hours to write every evening, so if what you are saying is true, he sure worked hard at it. Glad I never went any further and held back until I could prove him, which I never was able to. Always learning something new in this life! It is amazing. 

[Samantha11]

15 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This part has worked even back when I was in HS.  You'd be surprised how many girls put out to guys like this out of pure sympathy.

I can see it working in HS, or when people are young, but being well over 40 and professing so much inexperience - I would think someone would turn red just at the thought of it. But maybe that is a sign that he was making it up - that he was so willing to admit it so early and easily. If it had been me, I would not have shared that for a LONG time. 

I sure am learning a lot. I am glad I never slept with him, and that I never did anything with him beyond kissing. I wanted to wait and prove him, which I never was able to with all the red flags that kept popping up. I had empathy for him, but not enough to get in bed with him over it. (A note to leave to future women reading this: never sleep with a man until he commits to you. This is just another good example out of probably a seemingly infinite number regarding why.)

Thank you so much for sharing! I really am glad to be learning so much, and it is helping me get over him very quickly! I only like good people. I guess in the end it really has nothing to do with how cool or how nerdy a person is - people can just be jerks no matter what. So glad I am learning from everyone here, thank you for your help! 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Samantha11

[Samantha11]

20 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yes, all the better because then you think he's sincere.  It worked like a charm.

You know, he did say to me at one point that our situation was an example of women wanting commitment, and men wanting intimacy. It felt to me at the time like that was almost like him admitting... I just want sex.

Maybe that really was what he was admitting to, given everything. 

[stillafool]

36 minutes ago, Samantha11 said:

can see it working in HS, or when people are young, but being well over 40 and professing so much inexperience - I would think someone would turn red just at the thought of it. But maybe that is a sign that he was making it up - that he was so willing to admit it so early and easily. If it had been me, I would not have shared that for a LONG time.

It endeared him to you because so many men have high numbers when it comes to sex, this made him appear special.  He was lying.  Just like his "family" probably is his wife and kids.  That is why he had to always leave early so he could get back home.  Also why he became sick once you rented the hotel, he knew there was no way he could see you every day or night.  Also why he couldn't give you an answer as to why he always ended dates so early.  He felt pressure from you at that point and ended it.

[Samantha11]

5 minutes ago, stillafool said:

It endeared him to you because so many men have high numbers when it comes to sex, this made him appear special.  He was lying.  Just like his "family" probably is his wife and kids.  That is why he had to always leave early so he could get back home.  Also why he became sick once you rented the hotel, he knew there was no way he could see you every day or night.  Also why he couldn't give you an answer as to why he always ended dates so early.  He felt pressure from you at that point and ended it.

I thought of that too, to be honest. I wondered if him suddenly getting sick had something to do with trying to get out of seeing me, but he had wanted to see me right away when we both got back. I was actually the one who asked him to wait a few days, because I was exhausted from travel and such, and I felt a bit bad, like I was letting him down. And when we did meet, he had flowers for me, and wine, and we had a really great time. And at the end of that date, he was saying he wanted to see me a few days later. He never pushed me for sex on that date either. It was the next date where he pushed me, a week later. So the strange thing is, his actions can read both ways, which makes it hard to be sure. But I did think of the same thing as you did. 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Samantha11 said:

That is a good analysis. Are you a psychologist? Or in some related field?

I really appreciate your feedback. Like I said at the beginning of this post, my intent here was to learn from the experience, and leave something for others to learn from too if possible. I feel like I am learning a lot, and getting so much to think about, and you have been very insightful. 

No, Natural Sciences.

You're welcome!

[Wiseman2]

You visited his home? Anything unusual there? Usually a person's home reveals a lot about them and how they live. As far as using you for sex, it doesn't seem like it. You two corresponded for months and were long distance. If that's all he wanted there's plenty of easier local ways to go about it. 

[Samantha11]

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You visited his home? Anything unusual there? Usually a person's home reveals a lot about them and how they live. As far as using you for sex, it doesn't seem like it. You two corresponded for months and were long distance. If that's all he wanted there's plenty of easier local ways to go about it. 

Thank you Wiseman. Yes, I did visit at the second date, and every date after, except the last one. He even told me that I could come over any time I wanted, and offered to let me stay there if I got back to town before he did when we were both away. His parents place was not too far away also, one could easily walk there, which he said he often had. I know which house his parent's house is, as he pointed it to me on a map the second time I ever talked to him (before we dated) and he even offered to show it to me one time when we were dating. 

He lived in a very small studio condo. Just over 200 square feet. He said a girl he had taken on a date had picked on him and made him feel bad about the size of his condo. He said he paid it off about 15 years ago. It was very, very simple, and kind of needed remodeled imo. The paint was chipping in some areas, and while it was orderly, the floor when looking close was dirty and there was a lot of dust on the furniture. I noticed it smelled like urine, particularly in the bathroom, and was not sure why. He had had a dog about 9 years ago, but I would assume that was too long ago to be from that. The carpet in front of the toilet was extremely dirty and needed washed many times, or even better, replaced. A number of items were rusty, like his small fridge, and some exercise equipment. 

There was no shower curtain on the shower, which I wondered how he showered there, but he claimed he took a bath. His closet had very few items in it, and honestly the apartment had very few items. He said he did not cook there, but ate at his parents. I did notice the fabric of his bathrobe hanging on the back of the door looked ripped in many areas, which I was surprised by. I mean, I am known for keeping old things around myself, but that was long gone and useless. 

I wondered about all of these things, but thought it might have to do with him being a mix of a bachelor, and just dealing with a lot of personal issues. 

I hope he was not just trying to have sex. I get why people think that, and maybe they are right, but there was something about him that if you saw was just honestly matching with someone who would be a 40+ virgin, but I don't know. I guess that is probably more info. than you asked for! Thanks again Wiseman2. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Samantha11

[Acacia98]

All I can do is speculate about this guy because I haven't met him: I'm inclined to think he is as you perceived him--"emotionally stunted" (I'm borrowing this description from one of the earlier posts). It is possible for him to be this way AND to also be manipulative. I don't think your perception/instincts are completely off.

Your perception of his vulnerabilities has encouraged you to feel sorry for him. That's understandable. But personally, I would argue that his vulnerabilities make him an unsuitable relationship partner for you. I got the impression, when reading your earlier posts, that he was somewhat childlike and that, if you and he had stayed together longer, you would have ended up playing a mother-like role in the relationship. Yet it sounds like your ideal in a relationship is a partner who is your equal. Your description of his home suggests that he isn't quite able to handle the finer details of looking after his home environment. So it makes sense that his family would play a more involved role in his life.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Acacia98

[Alpacalia]

One thing I am also curious about is why did most of your correspondence outside of seeing each other consist of emails? I find that a bit strange since it seems like you would have wanted to talk through phone calls or Skype instead of emails. Did you have any particular reason for using emails rather than other forms of communication?

The home you visited could have been a second property and him living with a wife in another location. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he's married based on the behavior you described. It's possible that email was preferred because it made it easier for him to keep correspondence and plans discrete. He may have also felt that it provided him with space to maintain stories he told you and confidentially communicate. It may have also provided him with security in not accidentally giving away details he'd preferred to keep hidden.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, Samantha11 said:

There was no shower curtain on the shower.  His closet had very few items in it, and honestly the apartment had very few items. He said he did not cook there, but ate at his parents. 

Are you sure he actually lives there? Perhaps he lives with his parents (or whoever) most of the time?

[ExpatInItaly]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you sure he actually lives there? Perhaps he lives with his parents (or whoever) most of the time?

I was wondering the same thing. It doesn't sound like he spends much time there. 

[JTSW]

The more I read here, the more I think he is actually married.

The place he took her to wasn't his.

The timed dates were the timeframe he gave his wife for being at meetings etc.

This is my theory.

[Samantha11]

21 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

All I can do is speculate about this guy because I haven't met him: I'm inclined to think he is as you perceived him--"emotionally stunted" (I'm borrowing this description from one of the earlier posts). It is possible for him to be this way AND to also be manipulative. I don't think your perception/instincts are completely off.

Your perception of his vulnerabilities has encouraged you to feel sorry for him. That's understandable. But personally, I would argue that his vulnerabilities make him an unsuitable relationship partner for you. I got the impression, when reading your earlier posts, that he was somewhat childlike and that, if you and he had stayed together longer, you would have ended up playing a mother-like role in the relationship. Yet it sounds like your ideal in a relationship is a partner who is your equal. Your description of his home suggests that he isn't quite able to handle the finer details of looking after his home environment. So it makes sense that his family would play a more involved role in his life.

Thank you Acacia. I think I would say I feel empathy with him other than feeling sorry. I feel like I can understand him, or at least certain things about him. But I get what you mean. He has a very beautiful, sensitive, kind side; but like you said, that does not mean there cannot be another side too. I know for a fact that he also has a very intelligent, sharp side, with passionate beliefs that he can argue intensely for, but that does not seem to come out very often. Your comment about his home environment makes sense, regarding it being a sign that he might need his family to play a more involved role but he is not explaining to me the extent of that perhaps. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate it. 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Samantha11

[Samantha11]

12 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

One thing I am also curious about is why did most of your correspondence outside of seeing each other consist of emails? I find that a bit strange since it seems like you would have wanted to talk through phone calls or Skype instead of emails. Did you have any particular reason for using emails rather than other forms of communication?

The home you visited could have been a second property and him living with a wife in another location. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he's married based on the behavior you described. It's possible that email was preferred because it made it easier for him to keep correspondence and plans discrete. He may have also felt that it provided him with space to maintain stories he told you and confidentially communicate. It may have also provided him with security in not accidentally giving away details he'd preferred to keep hidden.

He initially gave me his email to send me a link to a project he had worked on, and then we started emailing back and forth and he asked me out. I never asked for a phone call because I actually don't like talking on my phone that much. For some reason, cell phones can make me not feel well after awhile, so I try to keep mine turned off. It is just easier for me to email, and I have always enjoyed writing letters, so I never really questioned it and we kept emailing. I do realize though that could give someone an extra level of secrecy, I just did not think I had to worry about that at the time. I did see his contact list on his phone once though, when he was showing it to me, and the only people on the list were his immediate family. All the names I recognized he had told me about, unless one of the people who he calls his sister is his wife. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Samantha11

[Samantha11]

11 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you sure he actually lives there? Perhaps he lives with his parents (or whoever) most of the time?

He told me from the very beginning that he spends most of his time at his parents house. They live very close to him, and he said he goes there after work, eats dinner with them, spends the evening, then comes home to sleep. He goes over in the morning for breakfast at their house, and spends his days off there too.

[Samantha11]

11 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I was wondering the same thing. It doesn't sound like he spends much time there. 

He doesn't. He told me from the beginning he spends most of his time at his parent's house. 

[Gaeta]

If l'm reading this right you were always the one driving to his area to meet?

That would have been my first red flag. Serious reliable men go to you. They find time and find ways.

My other point is it was a mistake to take a hotel for a month in his area after dating this short time. Yes you were free and were going to spend the money anyway but doing it in his area made you too available and you became less 'shiny' to him. 

The big red flag is him changing his stories, this happens when people lie and don't remember what lies they used. 

You were too flexible, too forgiving, gave too many chances. Being sweet is never a good reason to give a second chance.  Being sweet is the same as talk being cheap..it takes no effort. 

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, Samantha11 said:

He doesn't. He told me from the beginning he spends most of his time at his parent's house. 

Exactly. 

Together with all the other red flags, that would make me wonder who "parents" is code for. I would bet any money he actually lives with a woman. 

[basil67]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:13 AM, Samantha11 said:

He said a girl he had taken on a date had picked on him and made him feel bad about the size of his condo. He said he paid it off about 15 years ago. It was very, very simple, and kind of needed remodeled imo. The paint was chipping in some areas, and while it was orderly, the floor when looking close was dirty and there was a lot of dust on the furniture. I noticed it smelled like urine, particularly in the bathroom, and was not sure why. He had had a dog about 9 years ago, but I would assume that was too long ago to be from that. The carpet in front of the toilet was extremely dirty and needed washed many times, or even better, replaced. A number of items were rusty, like his small fridge, and some exercise equipment. 

I doubt she made him feel bad about the size of the condo...rather the terrible state it was in.  That urine smell in the bathroom comes from not washing any human urine sprays from the bathroom floor.  The carpet probably reeked of it.  

No matter how much 'goodness' shines from a guy, if his place is dirty and unkempt, don't pursue further.  It's a bit sign that you'd be doing ALL the housework if you got a place together. 

[Alpacalia]

10 hours ago, Samantha11 said:

He initially gave me his email to send me a link to a project he had worked on, and then we started emailing back and forth and he asked me out. I never asked for a phone call because I actually don't like talking on my phone that much. For some reason, cell phones can make me not feel well after awhile, so I try to keep mine turned off. It is just easier for me to email, and I have always enjoyed writing letters, so I never really questioned it and we kept emailing. I do realize though that could give someone an extra level of secrecy, I just did not think I had to worry about that at the time. I did see his contact list on his phone once though, when he was showing it to me, and the only people on the list were his immediate family. All the names I recognized he had told me about, unless one of the people who he calls his sister is his wife. 

Sure, it's worth contemplating this aspect for the future (i.e. only communicating by EMAIL), as it could potentially create a scenario where an individual, who solely communicates via email instead of phone calls, might have the opportunity to withhold certain information due to the absence of phone conversations. Given that you haven't insisted on phone calls and considering the dynamic where you've been the one traveling to meet him, while he hasn't reciprocated, lent itself to a situation where it was difficult for him to be upfront with you.

If I were placed in the position of the other person, and our communication was restricted solely to emails I might assume that you were avoiding talking to me for other reasons.

Another thing that jumped out at me (and please correct me if I missed it in the replies) is that he has never been to your place? Is this something that you have been avoiding or is it something else? Did he ever raise these things with you and show concern or curiosity? I feel like you may have stepped into a one-sided type of “relationship” and that it's very possible he was not ready to take things further due to his lack of knowledge about you and vice versa.

Yes, there are certainly lots of red flags on his part. His deflecting tactics and avoidance of communication with you is a clear indicator that he was not interested in an authentic relationship. Whether he is married or has committed family ties, that's up for debate but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibilities. I think one of the biggest mistakes you could have made in this situation was that you didn't set boundaries with him right away. You went into it full force without really knowing what you were getting yourself into.

It seems you got caught up in romanticized ideas and wanted this relationship to fit into a certain archetype. But the harsh reality is that what you two had was not a real relationship and it didn't have any real potential for one. Whether he was hitched or not, or dealing with a clingy family and whatnot, you strolled right into the relationship with these rosy dreams of romance and an unreal feeling of ease with a near stranger. This scenario practically screamed "warning signs."

I understand how tough it can be when you're deeply involved with someone and hoping for things to fall into place.

[Samantha11]

11 hours ago, Gaeta said:

If l'm reading this right you were always the one driving to his area to meet?

That would have been my first red flag. Serious reliable men go to you. They find time and find ways.

My other point is it was a mistake to take a hotel for a month in his area after dating this short time. Yes you were free and were going to spend the money anyway but doing it in his area made you too available and you became less 'shiny' to him. 

The big red flag is him changing his stories, this happens when people lie and don't remember what lies they used. 

You were too flexible, too forgiving, gave too many chances. Being sweet is never a good reason to give a second chance.  Being sweet is the same as talk being cheap..it takes no effort. 

No, I was not driving back and forth to his area. I was already visiting his area as a tourist when I met him. I just decided to stay longer to see if anything might be there.

I had to leave one time to go back to my hometown to do some things, after our fifth date and about a month and a half in from emailing with him (we lost a few weeks early on because I had wanted to end things when I saw red flags, but he tried to convince me to see him again and that he would correct those things), and he offered to meet me there for a day. When I was done, I drove back to his area.

He actually told me at the very end that he never had any idea I was staying around his area just for him. 

I do travel a lot; if I meet anyone else in the future, should I not stay in the area? Should I just leave and tell them to come to where I am going next? Just curious how to work that in future scenarios. 

Yes, the changing of stories and the gaslighting were two of the biggest red flags for me. I just don't feel I can trust him anymore. I really appreciate your thoughts and advice. Thanks!

[Samantha11]

5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Exactly. 

Together with all the other red flags, that would make me wonder who "parents" is code for. I would bet any money he actually lives with a woman. 

Wow. I had called him on that when I tried to end things early on as the reason I was ending things, and he apologized profusely and promised up and down he was not married... and even numerous times while we was dating he would feel frustrated if I doubted him and said he was not married. But people can lie. Thank you!

[Samantha11]

3 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Another thing that jumped out at me (and please correct me if I missed it in the replies) is that he has never been to your place? Is this something that you have been avoiding or is it something else? Did he ever raise these things with you and show concern or curiosity? I feel like you may have stepped into a one-sided type of “relationship” and that it's very possible he was not ready to take things further due to his lack of knowledge about you and vice versa.

He came over to my hotel one time at the end of our date. At the end, when we were breaking things off, he asked me why I had never asked him over to my hotel on other occasions, or why I had never asked him on dates. 

3 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

 I think one of the biggest mistakes you could have made in this situation was that you didn't set boundaries with him right away. 

Just for future reference, what boundaries would you suggest I have set up? I am curious to learn.

3 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

It seems you got caught up in romanticized ideas.

I definitely have a habit of wanting things to work when I meet someone I really like, because I rarely meet someone I really like to that degree. Getting me to go on dates is like pulling teeth usually. I know that sets me up for be willing to give someone far too many chances, when otherwise I would not. 

Thank you again for your feedback! It was great as always. 👍