dumped and isolated

[HeartNPA]

9 minutes ago, S2B said:

Do you actually mean:

THIS is what he told you? Because - remember - he is a known liar. 
 

please stop thinking you should believe what he’s told you. 

I don’t know, though.  I think it’s fair to assume that I’m naive and pretty gullible to buy what he was selling.   However, I had a partner once with pretty severe PTSD that manifested in some scary moments and it’s not something that you just make up for attention, I don’t think. 

[HeartNPA]

3 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Read up on triangulation. 

Not that he thought, oh, I should use this technique to manipulate her. But... it is so common in affairs. And it makes the OW feel safer in the situation. She relaxes knowing she does x,y,z better. MM feeds more details- maybe not always lying but omitting. So maybe he shares the flaws in his wife but he leaves out all the great details about her. Also allows you to form your own opinion of her and doesn't correct you. 

Okay, wow.   So, if I’m understanding correctly, triangulation the “victim” twisting or manipulating the facts so that “the rescuer”  hates  “the persecuter”.  
 

I’m assuming that what you wanted me to understand about this is that I was the rescuer and by framing things the way he did, I was drawn closer to him.   Not only did he need me, but I was better for him.  
 

I think this explains why it’s stinging so much in this chat when people are offering some compelling ideas about the wives experience.  
 

It also, again, doesn’t really help me to feel like I’ve taken very good care of myself.  I feel like I don’t have one lick of sense in me.  Still helpful to understand, but it’s heavy.   Thank you. 

[Wiseman2]

40 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

 I think they both know he can use that to impact custody decisions. 

So your goal is to break up their marriage permanently?  Why are you talking about custody?

Please realize cheaters demonize their spouses all the time. And if you inject yourself, he'll lie about it to her and simply depict you as "psychotic" also.

Keep in mind, you're more disposable than a wife and he'll definitely throw you under the bus.

Ask your therapist about the wisdom of telling the wife. This is someone neutral and professional, who knows your history. Please realize what duplicitous snake he really always has been. It's hard to believe you believe a word he said.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Wiseman2

[HeartNPA]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

So your goal is to break up their marriage permanently?  Why are you talking about custody?

That was never my goal, no. I tried to end it numerous times because I was uncomfortable with him using me as another reason he should leave.   

This was just information that I gathered in over a year of talking with a man for hours a day. 

I honestly thought I believed that we would never work in a real relationship. 

But I also believed what he told me and that he loved me and that he needed me and that neither of us had ever found some one we could talk to and be this close to before.  

Over the last 24 hours, I’m learning a lot about how much of this is ridiculous and foolish of me. 

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please realize cheaters demonize their spouses all the time. And if you inject yourself, he'll lie about it to her and simply depict you as "psychotic" also.

Keep in mind, you're more disposable than a wife and he'll definitely throw you under the bus.

This is so true and my fear.  
 

I will certainly talk to my therapist about the cost/benefit analysis of outting our relationship.   And what I owe to the wife. 
 

To be fair, I also know some other pretty incriminating things about his sexuality and some ways he’s been exploring that that feel pretty risky and relevant in this conversation as well.  
 

So, just lots to consider.   But not today. 

[S2B]

Quote

 

To be fair, I also know some other pretty incriminating things about his sexuality and some ways he’s been exploring that that feel pretty risky and relevant in thisconversation as well.  

 

Are you referencing anything that puts his wife at further risk? 

[BaileyB]

42 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

So, if I’m understanding correctly, triangulation the “victim” twisting or manipulating the facts so that “the rescuer”  hates  “the persecuter”.  
 

I’m assuming that what you wanted me to understand about this is that I was the rescuer and by framing things the way he did, I was drawn closer to him.   Not only did he need me, but I was better for him.  

Married men tend to pit the other woman against the wife. To be fair, sometimes he doesn’t have to do much because many other women are often envious and coveting the position of the wife in their own way. The wife has his name, his home, his children, she shares his bed, his vacations (that’s a hard one for many other women to accept, there are many posts on this site from desperate women who can no longer deny the fact that his marriage is not as despondent as he would lead her to believe when he choses to go on a happy vacation with his spouse/or their family.) In response, he tells the other woman that she has his heart, she listens better, she is his peace, she is the best sex that he’s ever had, etc… That boosts the other woman, gives her the feeling that she has a position of special importance in his life and is superior to the wife. The easiest way to boost one’s sense of self-worth or to feel more secure in the affair is to diminish the other person. 

His complaints about the wife are designed to make the other woman feel empathy for the married man - manipulative, don’t you think. “Feel sorry for me. Love me! Soothe me! She does not love me/does not have sex with me/does not give me any love and attention/she fights with me all the time, she is so demanding, etc…” I think you will recognize that pattern in your relationship. Or, he lies by omission, as was said above. As one regular poster used to say, the married man need only drop a few hints and the other woman will pick up and continue the story…  In the other woman’s mind, “the sex has dropped off” turns into - “she does not love him anymore, she will not meet his needs which is why he needs me, I will do things that she will not do - I am a much better partner for him and he stays only out of duty, while he obviously loves me more…”

The thing is, as the other woman, your self esteem is often in the toilet. I mean, who can feel good about yourself when the man that you love - the man who tells you that you are special and he loves you in return - goes home to another woman every night. Who is happy when you are never able to have that which you truly want. It’s a lonely, and isolating, and unhappy place to be so it’s easy to understand how a woman begins to compare themselves and develop jealous feelings toward the wife. It’s easy to understand why the other woman needs to feel like she is the special one, the superior woman, the person he truly loves…

Edited September 1, 2023 by BaileyB

[S2B]

And remember - since he talks bad about his wife - he will talk bad about you too.

the man knows no boundary when it comes to being cruel and manipulative to women (yes - plural).

all of his words are designed to swing in an outcome that he’s looking for. This is why cheaters are known liars.

[MsJayne]

4 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

Except they are also very religious

But not so religious that he can't light his prayer candle in an extra-marital church. Oh, the stench of hypocrisy 🤮.

1 hour ago, HeartNPA said:

She had some pretty scary post partum psychosis about 10 years ago

So he says. I'd be wanting to see the psychiatrist's report on that one, not to mention hear the wife's side of that story. 

1 hour ago, HeartNPA said:

f***, I feel like a monster now that I’m sharing this.   What in gods name is wrong with me. 

Absolutely nothing. You're having a pretty normal reaction to an unpleasant realisation. There is a monster in this scenario, but it's not you. Maybe put yourself in the wife's shoes. You've been married for X years, you have kids, you have a comfortable life, you've always suspected that your husband's a player but he's been gas-lighting you for so long that you no longer bother confronting him because you've grown to doubt your own perception of things. Especially since the breakdown 10 years ago....he went 'round telling everyone you had post-partum depression and went crazy, and you went along with that because you were too tired to argue, but the reality was that you knew he'd been having an affair through most of the pregnancy, and the stress and isolation of a new baby plus the knowledge of what a lying dirtbag he is was too much for you and you just fell apart.......  That may not be what happened, but what if it was? What if the guy you thought was Mr Wonderful was actually capable of being that cruel and manipulative towards the woman he's married to? Would that guy think twice about lying to women to get what he wanted? 

[S2B]

When any wife has a husband she suspects of cheating it mentally drives the woman crazy. It could easily have been his cheating that sent her over the edge - but that’s not something he would admit… cheaters like to blame their bad behavior on someone else. They also never like to take responsibility for the way they participate.

but most wives feel something is off. And for good reason.

it really gets to me when a cheater pulls that “religious” crap too 🤮 

could he actually be more of a hypocrite than that? I don’t think so.

Edited September 1, 2023 by S2B

[BaileyB]

51 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

So he says. I'd be wanting to see the psychiatrist's report on that one, not to mention hear the wife's side of that story. 

And even if it is true, post partum anxiety, depression, and even psychosis is a medical condition that is temporary, can be treated, and life goes on… She experienced a mental illness in the process of birthing his child. If anything, she is deserving of empathy and support - not judgment.

I’m not saying that you are judging her OP. But, to hold that experience and her illness over her head in this way when talking about her right to custody of her child is a terrible thing for him to do. That should give you serious pause about the type of man you have been dating - my partner’s ex-wife experiences mental health issues including paranoia and delusions and he has never threatened to keep his son from his mother. I also work with many people who have a diagnosed or undiagnosed mental illness, they are all raising their children. A past history or a diagnosis of mental illness does not mean that she would not have shared custody of her children. As  long as she does not present an imminent risk to her children, she will retain custody of her children. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by BaileyB

[S2B]

It’s why I say - you can’t believe anything he has told you.

[JTSW]

17 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

Would you give any thought to the fact that he really ended it all in a few text messages, though?  Like, it feels more brutal because it was done there. 

He did it the cowards way which says allot about him.

It shows he is not willing to face up to his responsibility.

[Will am I]

9 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

I hate to say it but it was literally the perfect set up for him to hide

Yet you allowed yourself to be maneuvered into this hiding place. 

 

Concerning the past, I think it would be smart to look at what got you into that situation.

Cheaters may be manipulative persons. Lying and lovebombing in order to get what they desire. So manipualtion is one possible factor. But there also possible risk factors on your end. Like people with low self esteem are more more prone to end up in these situations. People who lack intimate friendships too. And people who are insecure about their options to find a life partner. And I believe that being the victim of manipulation early in your life may also be a risk factor (because family structures with manipulation do not establish or respect healthy boundaries).

 

As for the future, part of it is just mentality. Stand up for yourself and decide that you're too good, too much fun, too nice, too pretty to be treated like that.

Like that line from the old Cindy Lauper song. "I wanna be the one to walk in the sun". 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Will am I
typo

[Starswillshine]

6 hours ago, S2B said:

When any wife has a husband she suspects of cheating it mentally drives the woman crazy.

Exactly. The gas lighting will put one questioning everything. 

I once sat down with my x-husband, and we had a long conversation about his behavior recently. His phone was with him at all times (it was typically something he threw on the counter when he got home never to touch again), his personality had changed- best I could describe it, he was a 20 year old at college just leaving mommy and daddy's home for the first time. He traveled a lot, and his drinking and partying was getting out of control. He was mid-40s. Everything led me to believe there was someone else. He, empathically, stated there was no one else, he loved me so much. This man even broke down in tears claiming how horrible he felt that his behavior put me in a state of such anxiety. He was beating himself up for the fact that I was worrying about him. Then he said these things, "You know, if you want to go speak to someone, I fully support it." (He was talking about a therapist). AKA, in supportive speech, he told me I was crazy.

2 days prior, he had returned home from a "work trip"... one he worked over nights and we didn't speak much. AKA, he used company funds to take his mistress to her favorite city. 

We had what most people thought was a picture perfect marriage and family. And, at the time, i thought so, too. We had 4 kids, we were very financially successful, we traveled together just the 2 of us often, I wasn't a wife who was thrown too much into my kids top exhausted for my husband, we had sex most nights he was home, I was in really good shape, took care of myself, always dresed well, etc. But what the OW heard was a completely different story. 

When I found out, with the help of this OW, that she wasn't the only one. I knew I could not move passed it. Though he fought me tooth and nail, and though I know at any given moment, I could go back to him, I decided to divorce him.

In 2 months, I am marrying a man who is the complete opposite of my ex. He isn't as good with words (these manipulators ALWAYS are), his ACTIONS prove everything I need to know and feel. 

 

Sorry for the sidebar with my story, but I am just sharing because there is an opposite side to this, but at the same time... the OW and a BS are in the same boat. Gaslighted and manipulated by a WS. He/She is the only one to know the truth. The others in the triangle will never know nor understand. It is only when you can step back, FAR back, does reality start to clear. And the best thing is.... you start to not even care about the truth. It no longer matters. 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, HeartNPA said:

.I will certainly talk to my therapist about the cost/benefit analysis of outting our relationship.   

, I also know some other pretty incriminating things about his sexuality 

Definitely discuss with your therapist whether contacting him or his wife is in your best interests. You can't undo things but you can reflect and wait until you're not so hurt and angry.

Why are you trying to build a case against him with "incriminating evidence". Unfortunately the more you write, the more you come across as woman scorned and out for revenge as far as revealing the affair to his wife.

[JTSW]

@HeartNPA I honestly don't recommend telling his wife anything. 

It won't help anything.

She is aware that he has cheated so I don't think there is any need to get involved and hurt yourself further.

It will just open up a whole new can of worms and cause you more harm than good.

You won't have anything to gain from it.

You are better off keeping as much distance as you can from them and moving on with your life.

Edited September 1, 2023 by JTSW

[Starswillshine]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Definitely discuss with your therapist whether contacting him or his wife is in your best interests. You can't undo things but you can reflect and wait until you're not so hurt and angry.

Why are you trying to build a case against him with "incriminating evidence". Unfortunately the more you write, the more you come across as woman scorned and out for revenge as far as revealing the affair to his wife.

I don't really get this impression. I think she is just grappling with what she believed/felt for the past year and his actions in ending it. She is going through the motions. She doesn't want to tell his wife because she doesn't want to be outed, and I believe she doesn't want to betray him in the chance that he comes back. She hasn't resolved the cognitive dissonance just yet.

[HeartNPA]

18 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why are you trying to build a case against him with "incriminating evidence". Unfortunately the more you write, the more you come across as woman scorned and out for revenge as far as revealing the affair to his wife.

 

9 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

I don't really get this impression. I think she is just grappling with what she believed/felt for the past year and his actions in ending it. She is going through the motions. She doesn't want to tell his wife because she doesn't want to be outed, and I believe she doesn't want to betray him in the chance that he comes back. She hasn't resolved the cognitive dissonance just yet.

I think both of these summaries are partially true. 
 

I mentioned the depth of information that I have about him as an aside because I had realized it’s just more information that perhaps the wife should know, if we’re considering that this is the best possible action.   What he shared with me is completely counter to the man she thinks she has married in every way possible. 

It was also the reason that I often felt compelled not to “abandon” him (his words).   He had finally shared this side of him and was accepted and not judged.   

AND at the same time, I am in some ways hoping to keep myself as a safe space for him.   Some moments it feels like I am because I don’t want him to be alone again.   Others, I feel like I want him to reach out so I can tell him about himself, about all that I’ve learned in these discussions in this room, now that I’m not alone, and I can be the person to reject him. 

Where I’d like to be is a much less emotional place, where I can make the decision that is best from an objective place. 

 

I’m also devastated and unpacking a whole lot of information.   Sharing and talking and hearing insight for the first time ever since entering this relationship.    So sometimes it feels like I’m just unloading all of it and feeling relieved to have anyone listening and caring.   Thank you both so much for your help and insight.  ❤️

[HeartNPA]

33 minutes ago, JTSW said:

@HeartNPA I honestly don't recommend telling his wife anything. 

It won't help anything.

She is aware that he has cheated so I don't think there is any need to get involved and hurt yourself further.

It will just open up a whole new can of worms and cause you more harm than good.

You won't have anything to gain from it.

You are better off keeping as much distance as you can from them and moving on with your life.

I think this is exactly where I am right now.   Just letting the dust settle and trying to build myself up because I don’t want to go back there. 
 

I’ve been heartbroken and devastated and just so sad.  I’ve missed my friend and our conversations.   I’ve a few cute little moments where I couldn’t wait to tell him, and then the devastating realization that I’ll never tell him.  
 

But I have also felt so relieved.  I feel like I can breath into a deeper place of my lungs that hasn’t been used in a long time.  My time is my own again and I’m sleeping better.  I’m trying to focus on these things.  I’m so so grateful to have found some insight and help.   Thank you again so much! 

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

. What he shared with me is completely counter to the man she thinks she has married in every way possible.

With all due respect, you have no idea what she knows or thinks. Please focus solely on your own recovery. Hoping to torment this woman even more is not a noble pursuit.

Consider joining some groups and clubs, volunteer, get involved in sports and fitness, get a fun part-time job. Broaden your social horizons so you can rebuild friendships and share your life with decent people.  Keep yourself busy improving your life. Make friends with people you can trust.

Get a good profile and pics on quality paid dating apps. Try eHarmony. They screen for married people and members must provide proof. Start talking to and meeting quality single men with integrity. Then you'll have someone decent to talk to about your life.

[Starswillshine]

35 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

What he shared with me is completely counter to the man she thinks she has married in every way possible. 

It was also the reason that I often felt compelled not to “abandon” him (his words).   He had finally shared this side of him and was accepted and not judged.   

AND at the same time, I am in some ways hoping to keep myself as a safe space for him.   Some moments it feels like I am because I don’t want him to be alone again.

The common themes and stories in affairs would be comical if it were not for all the heartbreak involved.

This was my ex's MO as well. He told his OW that it was only she that he could open up to and share the deepest and darkest parts of himself. That he could trust her to not pass judgment. So he told her about his affairs and he told her about all the various sexual things that he had done. But let's stop for a second and think about this... all these things happened within a marriage... but outside of the marriage. OF COURSE his wife would judge. He was cheating. 

Also something my ex explained to me. But please remember these were just words he spoke that I am sure was meant to make it sound like he had respect for me... (laughable)... he said his OW was just that a mistress. He could do things and say things and not care if it offended her (sexually). But he was reserved with me because I was his wife and the mother of his children. Something else he said made me realize that there is probably a little truth in it... "different people have different roles in my life." So I was the wife and mother of his children. That was my role. Sexually- I was definitely the more adventurous one, he would hold back and didn't feel comfortable doing certain things. Which was a shocker to me when I heard about the things he did with his OW. He told me that he had respect for me so for us, it was "making love" and not just pure sex (gag).  So careful assigning extreme importance to that. It might not mean what you think it means. 

[BaileyB]

55 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

It was also the reason that I often felt compelled not to “abandon” him (his words).   He had finally shared this side of him and was accepted and not judged.   

This is a classic manipulation strategy. Like the child whose parent is abusing them, they can’t tell anyone because it will hurt the parent and they will suffer the consequences. The child “protects” the parent - when really, the parent doesn’t need protection. They are an adult, capable and responsible for themselves. But by keeping this secret, the child feels special. The bond grows (it’s called trauma bonding). But, what the parent is doing is horribly abusive to their child. 
 

55 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

It was also the reason that I often felt compelled not to “abandon” him (his words).   He had finally shared this side of him and was accepted and not judged. AND at the same time, I am in some ways hoping to keep myself as a safe space for him.

This just makes me so sad, because he has you right where he wants you. You have bought his story hook, line, and sinker…

Edited September 1, 2023 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

56 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

Where I’d like to be is a much less emotional place, where I can make the decision that is best from an objective place. 

You do this by putting some time and distance between you, and continuing these discussions and those oh your counsellor.

[JTSW]

Stars nailed it. MM know how to manipulate women into believing they are special.

When it actuality they are just a bit of fun on the side, nothing more.

[stillafool]

55 minutes ago, HeartNPA said:

I am in some ways hoping to keep myself as a safe space for him.   Some moments it feels like I am because I don’t want him to be alone again.

So does the above mean that after all of this you would take him back if he wanted you?