32F and 34M in a Relationship for 14 Yrs w/ No Engagement

[yimby63]

We met nearly 14 years ago, obviously we were very young then... but I can't help but wonder (sorry, grew up watching SATC) am I just not the one for him since he has still not proposed. We own a home together, have fur kids together, have been through lots of life's ups and downs, including long distance. I have brought up my sadness that it still hasn't happened and his response was that a wedding is a stupid waste of money. It honestly broke my heart, and I still can't get over it. I tried to explain that it's more about the feeling of being wanted, the commitment and moving forward to another stage in life. Now, I just feel like I'm being pacified that it "will happen" in a couple years or "starting to save money" but I'm starting to feel like it's just excuses. I've seen a new therapist who thinks my foot is already out the door, but I can't help but feel like a completionist, and undoing my life isn't an easy feat - and I still love him. Dating in 30s terrifies me, and I know most men can be awful. For context my partner took over two years to say "I love you" after dating too - maybe that was a sign of things to come. I honestly feel so lost. For context, he has no friends - which I'm starting to think is a red flag. I don't know if he's unhappy/insecure in other areas of his life, including friendship, so maybe he's trying to build a perfect picture before taking the plunge? I've discussed eloping on a beach, courthouse etc too. We looked at rings once over 2 years ago, and have been waiting since. Looking for others who have gone through this other than my virtual therapist's kneejerk response.

[stillafool]

Hi, it seems like I've read this before and if so I'm sorry that you aren't married by now.  Do you have to have a wedding or would a small ceremony do?  If the cost of a big wedding is the hold up consider something else.  I can tell you I know a woman who spent 16 years with a guy she was waiting to marry.  They broke up and within 2 years he was walking down the aisle with someone else.  Don't wait around until that happens to you.

[yimby63]

I haven't posted on here before, but I am starting to realize a lot of people have the same issue as me. it's really hard when you essentially "grow up together". i honestly just want anything at this point. I've mentioned eloping, doing a beach wedding with just direct family, doing it in the cottage backyard. cost really isn't an issue, if I'm being frank, i think it's an excuse now. i've started to notice how we even go out for a dinner or grab a beer by the water and cost of things comes up so much. 

question is - what to do now. I feel like I've wasted time, and it's eating me alive. do i set a one year deadline? 

[stillafool]

6 minutes ago, yimby63 said:

I feel like I've wasted time, and it's eating me alive. do i set a one year deadline? 

Unfortunately at this point - YES, if not sooner.  You have to tell him that you are willing to leave and take the kids if you two aren't going to get married in your time range.  Don't just settle for an engagement ring because you could just stay engaged for the next 10 years.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, yimby63 said:

 We own a home together, have fur kids together,

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have any incentive to get married and seems to be coasting along complacently with the status quo.

Instead of discussing types of weddings try to focus on the legal and financial advantages of marriage including on your children.

[yimby63]

very true. so frame it more as the union than the first step to getting engaged. another red flag is that he wouldn't put me as a beneficiary for life insurance. we equally own our home together (canadian common law affords more rights than in the USA) but this bugged me - his "parents could use the money more than me". i think overall this situation is the loss of trust, and positive thinking, now that he reveals he thinks that weddings are stupid and a waste of time and money, it really shattered all my illusions. I don't know if he was saying things rashly. I brought up my issues with this response of his in a discussion and he said he DOES want to marry me. but again, i'm not seeing the action plan at all, even though he explains that he already has created a home with me/shares duties with our pets. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, yimby63 said:

 he wouldn't put me as a beneficiary for life insurance. 

That's ridiculous. It should be in your children's name in a trust. Please contact an attorney in your jurisdiction about common law marriage and your rights.

[yimby63]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have any incentive to get married and seems to be coasting along complacently with the status quo.

Instead of discussing types of weddings try to focus on the legal and financial advantages of marriage including on your children.

i only have pets. now i fear having children with him because he doesn't seem fully in it. 

see my response above re life insurance - we file taxes separately though we could file together being common law. there aren't too many benefits to marriage in our province other than the potential upsides with any securities, ability to make health decisions for another person, etc. one actual benefit to legal marriage may be spousal savings plan contributions to offset one person's income tax but we both make the same amount of $. 

for me, the benefit of marriage is celebrating love, the union, and sharing that with friends and family, as well as having a special day that represents our union, along with sealing a trust between two individuals in that commitment. maybe that's corny, but i guess it's not "practical" or "rational" to him. 

[yimby63]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ridiculous. It should be in your children's name in a trust. Please contact an attorney in your jurisdiction about common law marriage and your rights.

i don't have kids!!! lol only pets... i wish i could put my dog as a beenficiary, but maybe i can set up a trust for her care LOL. 

[Els]

The whole "weddings is expensive" thing feels a bit like a red herring, especially since you've said you're fine with eloping.

Have the two of you actually sat down together and discussed marriage before? Not weddings, just marriage. Literally just walking into a courthouse and signing the paper. Has he said how he feels about that? If not, is there a reason why this was never discussed for 14 years?

I know popular media makes it seem like men propose and the woman gets "surprised" by something that just "happened"... but IMO in reality that's usually not what happens at all - not in the modern day, anyway. There are usually discussions leading up to it. Yes, of course some people still do the "surprise" proposal and the ring and all the other stuff... but the core of things (important issues that would actually impact your life and marriage, and consequently the decision to get married or not, and when) are discussed together. It feels to me like you two haven't had an open line of communication there.

The life insurance thing would be a huge red flag to me at 14 years together. Maybe it might be worth reflecting on why exactly you're still with him... are you genuinely happy in this relationship and do you strongly feel like he's the one for you, or is it just fear of the unknown/sunk cost fallacy?

[yimby63]

5 minutes ago, Els said:

The whole "weddings is expensive" thing feels a bit like a red herring, especially since you've said you're fine with eloping.

Have the two of you actually sat down together and discussed marriage before? Not weddings, just marriage. Literally just walking into a courthouse and signing the paper. Has he said how he feels about that? If not, is there a reason why this was never discussed for 14 years?

I know popular media makes it seem like men propose and the woman gets "surprised" by something that just "happened"... but IMO in reality that's usually not what happens at all - not in the modern day, anyway. There are usually discussions leading up to it. Yes, of course some people still do the "surprise" proposal and the ring and all the other stuff... but the core of things (important issues that would actually impact your life and marriage, and consequently the decision to get married or not, and when) are discussed together. It feels to me like you two haven't had an open line of communication there.

The life insurance thing would be a huge red flag to me at 14 years together. Maybe it might be worth reflecting on why exactly you're still with him... are you genuinely happy in this relationship and do you strongly feel like he's the one for you, or is it just fear of the unknown/sunk cost fallacy?

i agree it feels like a red herring I feel like anytime we discuss it, it always comes back to money. which frankly, isn't a #1 concern being honest, given our careers and place in life. 

i don't think it's been discussed plainly because we've been focused on our careers, doing long distance, and then purchasing a home together. but now i feel silly that it wasn't communicated earlier. I guess i just assumed it would come with natural progression. 

i used to be genuinely happy, but now, hearing his thoughts that marriage and weddings are stupid - really hurt my feelings. he said another thing to me that upset me as well regarding his feelings for me and just being "comfortable" and our relationship being rational. there's definitely a fear of the unknown, sunk cost, and having to restart. 

[Els]

3 minutes ago, yimby63 said:

i agree it feels like a red herring I feel like anytime we discuss it, it always comes back to money. which frankly, isn't a #1 concern being honest, given our careers and place in life. 

i don't think it's been discussed plainly because we've been focused on our careers, doing long distance, and then purchasing a home together. but now i feel silly that it wasn't communicated earlier. I guess i just assumed it would come with natural progression. 

i used to be genuinely happy, but now, hearing his thoughts that marriage and weddings are stupid - really hurt my feelings. he said another thing to me that upset me as well regarding his feelings for me and just being "comfortable" and our relationship being rational. there's definitely a fear of the unknown, sunk cost, and having to restart. 

If it helps, at 32 you are really quite young. Many of my friends met their partners in their early 30s and beyond. It will be hard but I am sure you could do it if you wanted to.

Have you talked to him about your feelings on this? If you are already thinking about leaving (should marriage not be in the cards), then he should know so he has the chance to right it before you leave, if he wants to.

[yimby63]

4 minutes ago, Els said:

If it helps, at 32 you are really quite young. Many of my friends met their partners in their early 30s and beyond. It will be hard but I am sure you could do it if you wanted to.

Have you talked to him about your feelings on this? If you are already thinking about leaving (should marriage not be in the cards), then he should know so he has the chance to right it before you leave, if he wants to.

after the intial "blow up" where he said weddings are stupid and a waste of money, i was pretty upset. several weeks later i articulated how hurt that made me and that i needed to know he wanted marriage with me. he said he does. but i don't think there's a plan. i think i will keep being pacified, distracted and gaslit. maybe i need to ask plainly and present him with the option, although deep down, I want him to want it too. i feel like such a fool. 

[Els]

5 minutes ago, yimby63 said:

he said he does

Maybe then say "Great! How about the courthouse on X date?".

At the very least, his answer will give you the closure that you need.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Els

[ShyViolet]

If marriage is so important to you, that is something you should have discussed with him earlier on in the relationship, like one year into it, and found out if that is something he wants too.

Now he has already shown you that marriage is not something he wants.  There's no confusion here....he isn't interested in it.  You should not be coercing him into it or setting ultimatums trying to "make" him marry you.  Why would you want to marry someone who doesn't really want to marry you, if the idea doesn't come straight from him?  You simply need to decide if you are okay staying in a relationship without that legal piece of paper.  He has already made it clear that he is committed to you... you own a house together for goodness sake.  It doesn't sound like his commitment to you is in question, it's just that he isn't interested in making it legal with that piece of paper.

Only you can decide whether you are unhappy enough with this, that it's a reason to leave. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, yimby63 said:

i don't have kids!!! lol only pets... i wish i could put my dog as a beenficiary, but maybe i can set up a trust for her care LOL. 

Apologies. Read "fur kids" as "four kids".  In any case, yes try the legal angle since you have been together so long and already co-own assets. But especially if you both want children in the future it could help being legally married.  Is the main objection money or weddings or some philosophical antimarriage stance? 

[Lotsgoingon]

I am imagining that the OP isn't all that happy in the relationship.

Two issues: one, her happiness in the relationship and two, her desire to get married.

I can't help but think the OP assumes getting married will solve the other issues of the marriage. This guy took two years to say "I love you." Why do I know that he is emotionally not the most nurturing and affirming partner on the planet?

OP, getting married doesn't solve anything--he's still going to be distant. 

[MsJayne]

Fourteen years, no proposal, plenty of excuses. It's possible that he genuinely does believe weddings are a foolish waste of money, but if that really was the reason we all know there's no need to make a wedding a million dollar affair and it's just an excuse. And another possibility is that he genuinely doesn't think formalising a union is necessary and so doesn't understand your feelings on the matter. The thing is though, you've made your feelings very clear, and he's choosing to disregard you, and that brings me to the conclusion that he really doesn't want to marry you. Women can propose now without any social stigma, but the ties of tradition and culture are still very strong in most people and there's something just not right about a man putting a woman in the position where she has to prompt him to do the asking or do the asking herself. Only my opinion, but it smacks of misogyny in a "make her beg" sort of way. I suggest a very honest conversation. Not an ultimatum, just a truthful discussion about why he's avoiding the final commitment. I originally misread your post and thought "fur kids" was "four kids". If you've no children and you have such different values, why stay with this cheapskate, unromantic man? 

Edited September 6, 2023 by MsJayne
Misread OP

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, yimby63 said:

 we equally own our home together canadian common law affords more rights 

I'm surprised that you are not researching your rights in a common law jurisdiction. Why not start there? You need to inform yourself on what constitutes a common law marriage in your area. Perhaps you are already "married" in your area. If that's the case, it's just about the having the party/wedding. Which he's against. Inform yourself on the common law situation where you are.

[yimby63]

4 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I am imagining that the OP isn't all that happy in the relationship.

Two issues: one, her happiness in the relationship and two, her desire to get married.

I can't help but think the OP assumes getting married will solve the other issues of the marriage. This guy took two years to say "I love you." Why do I know that he is emotionally not the most nurturing and affirming partner on the planet?

OP, getting married doesn't solve anything--he's still going to be distant. 

thank you, i'm starting to fear this. for a while i thought work stress was making me stressed and anxious, now i feel things totally differently and realize it's been my relationship and lack of emotional connection. are men in general nurturing or emotional? I think the two men in my life (one being this partner the other being my father) are not emotional beings at all. 

[basil67]

Disclaimer: My partner and I have been defacto since 1992, have legal recognition, two kids, mortgage, pets and have outlasted many couples who did get formally married.   

My message is this: You're not hearing him.  He doesn't want to get married. 

The reason why really he doesn't want marriage isn't relevant.  Yes, he agrees to it when you push him...but then does nothing.  Again, this tells you that he doesn't want to get married.  You could wait another year..... talk about it more.....but truly, nothing will change.  And for what it's worth, I think that he agrees to marriage in the vague future just so he doesn't have to talk about it again for a while. I really don't think he means it.  

When you look at the facts, you have two choices: either accept living defacto or end the relationship and find someone who shares your goals.  

Also about the life insurance, I'm shocked that he owns a house with you but won't put you on his insurance.  If his parents are so in need of the extra money, why isn't he helping them now?

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by basil67

[JTSW]

Why don't YOU propose to HIM?

Get down on one knee with a ring for him and ask.

If he turns you down then you know he is never going to marry you and you can make a more informative decision about your future together.

[yimby63]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

Disclaimer: My partner and I have been defacto since 1992, have legal recognition, two kids, mortgage, pets and have outlasted many couples who did get formally married.   

My message is this: You're not hearing him.  He doesn't want to get married. 

The reason why really he doesn't want marriage isn't relevant.  Yes, he agrees to it when you push him...but then does nothing.  Again, this tells you that he doesn't want to get married.  You could wait another year..... talk about it more.....but truly, nothing will change.  And for what it's worth, I think that he agrees to marriage in the vague future just so he doesn't have to talk about it again for a while. I really don't think he means it.  

When you look at the facts, you have two choices: either accept living defacto or end the relationship and find someone who shares your goals.  

Also about the life insurance, I'm shocked that he owns a house with you but won't put you on his insurance.  If his parents are so in need of the extra money, why isn't he helping them now?

 

in your situation, did you both agree to not get married, or is one person (like in my situation) more open to the possibility? how did you agree to not get married? 

thanks for your insight, you're definitely right about him moving the goal posts to just not talk about it. the life insurance thing seems rational and logical, so not agreeing to do that bugged me. i think there's an assumption my family would take care of me in the event something happened, while maybe true, we've worked very hard to build our lives independent of my family's wealth, and he knows how toxic they can be. he's not very good with doing paperwork - i found out even our health benefits were supposed to be added more coverage but he never actually did it (we have universal healthcare this is just for dental/eye care stuff). i am often the one planning and organizing things.

[yimby63]

2 hours ago, JTSW said:

Why don't YOU propose to HIM?

Get down on one knee with a ring for him and ask.

If he turns you down then you know he is never going to marry you and you can make a more informative decision about your future together.

i might be at this breaking point. but makes me feel like i'm begging. maybe i plan a date or opportunity to get married and see if he agrees... 

[stillafool]

18 hours ago, yimby63 said:

hearing his thoughts that marriage and weddings are stupid - really hurt my feelings.

Why do you have to have a wedding?  Can't you just go get married.