32F and 34M in a Relationship for 14 Yrs w/ No Engagement

[BrinnM]

I feel the same way as your partner, generally speaking. Marriage is overrated.
But if you have a long-term partner, and shared property and all that jazz, and that partner wants to get married, why say no?

If it makes them happy, if that is what they want, and if I think we’re probably going to last forever, why deny them that wish? Makes no sense. I don’t understand your boyfriend’s stubbornness here.
Same with the life-insurance issue: It should definitely be in your name. You’re his life partner, his parents are not; and they’re probably not going to outlive him anyways. If he wants them to have something in case of his early death, he can take out an additional policy where they’re the beneficiaries, but it shouldn’t affect your benefits. (Out of curiosity: Do you have life insurance with him as the beneficiary? If so, I would change the beneficiary.) 

Generally speaking, I don’t think starting over in your 30s is late. You’re very young. However, you say that you still love him, whatever that entails. All the things you are listing that bother you are completely valid though:

1) You want marriage, it’s important to you, and he simply refuses. To me that means that he doesn’t consider your feelings. He just continues on as if nothing is wrong. That’s callous, IMO.

2) The life-insurance. Totally unacceptable. Your safety and stability need to be his priority. It’s already bad enough that he doesn’t feel that his life-partner, the one he shares property with, the one he loves, deserves this kind of security, but even worse, if he’s prompted/asked to change the beneficiary, he fights it. Again: unacceptable. 
 

3) He has no friends? Why? For me personally, people with no friends are a red flag. How do you guys socialize? Is it only with your friend group, OP? Or is the family really tight-knit? Families can sometimes be a substitute for a lack friends, but it’s still weird if you have zero friends. 

I really think there’s some degree of disregard here for your needs, your feelings, and for who you are as a person. I wouldn’t take this lightly. If I put myself in your shoes, I’d certainly take some time to thoroughly think about my future with this partner, his potential, my options, and about what I get out of this relationship in general.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

I don't think  you proposing to him is going to make any difference, OP. 

Someone who has been balking at the idea of a wedding and marrige is just going to say no to a proposal. I wouldn't bother going this route. He doesn't seem to want marriage, and that he is with you for the same reasons you're still with him: it's comfortable and you're afraid of the unknown, but neither of you sound very happy on a deeper level. 

After 14 years, he'd have married you by now if he wanted to. If you see marriage as important life goal, then you need to concede that this is not your man. And I don't know where you got the idea that "most men are awful" - what's up with that? Plenty of men are perfectly wonderful people who cherish their partners and are open about. 

 

[Alpacalia]

I have not but it sounds like you are in an incredibly tough spot.

He has been quite clear that he is not ready yet and is not willing to commit to a traditional wedding. This may be a sign that he is not the right person for you, but I understand how difficult and confusing it can be to make such a decision. The best advice I would give is to really listen to what your partner has been saying. He is not ready for a traditional wedding or for marriage at all.

You also mention that he has no friends. Isn't that valuable information and something to consider when making your decision? Imagine if you were married, he has no friends, that means no support system should anything else happen in your relationship, and he would be relying solely on you.

If marriage is something that is really important to you this guy isn't going to be the one. He has been quite clear that he is not willing to commit in the traditional way. If you want to keep the relationship alive then you need to evaluate whether or not it's really worth it in the long run. It sounds like it's been quite a roller coaster ride already, so it would not be surprising if it doesn't get easier.

[stillafool]

OP, I don't understand you.  If he has told you the reason he doesn't want to get married is because weddings are too expensive, why do you have to have a wedding?  A lot of men feel women are more into the wedding than the marriage itself.

Edited September 7, 2023 by stillafool

[basil67]

9 hours ago, yimby63 said:

in your situation, did you both agree to not get married, or is one person (like in my situation) more open to the possibility? how did you agree to not get married? 

We basically covered the topic over a weekend.  It started when we were laying in bed one Saturday morning and I said "hey, do you reckon we should get married?"  And he said "yeah, OK".  And then we spend the rest of the weekend discovering that we couldn't agree on a wedding, so we happily let the topic drop and spent the money on a new bathroom instead. 

I did have a slight niggle over it for a while, but I realised it was mostly discomfort about still having the name of my ex-h, so I legally changed my name to that of my partner.  Have been perfectly content since.

9 hours ago, yimby63 said:

thanks for your insight, you're definitely right about him moving the goal posts to just not talk about it. the life insurance thing seems rational and logical, so not agreeing to do that bugged me. i think there's an assumption my family would take care of me in the event something happened, while maybe true, we've worked very hard to build our lives independent of my family's wealth, and he knows how toxic they can be. he's not very good with doing paperwork - i found out even our health benefits were supposed to be added more coverage but he never actually did it (we have universal healthcare this is just for dental/eye care stuff). i am often the one planning and organizing things.

To be fair we didn't actually take out life insurance until we had children because I was working.   With the kids, one is disabled and I'm carer, so the life insurance acknowledges that I can't earn any significant income if he died.   I really can't see the point of having life insurance going to his parents unless he's already supporting them.   I guess a bigger question is whether you are the beneficiary of his will.  Will you get his share of the house if he died?

Given the lack of paperwork on his side, does he even have a will?

[d0nnivain]

I can only share my story.  I lived with a man for almost 10 years from 24 to 33.  I wanted to get married.  He didn't "believe" in marriage.   I should have left years earlier than I did.  Staying too long is one of the reasons I don't have kids.  By the time I met & married my husband it was too late. 

Don't be me.  

Do talk to your guy about getting serious.  Lay it out that you need to know where his head & heart are.  If he gives you BS about not being ready, wanting to save more money etc you will have accept that it will never happen.  So if you are OK with just living together without marriage for the rest of your life, carry on.  If marriage means something to you, then you have deal with the fact that he's not your guy.  

Yes, it's scary & change can be upsetting.  I cried every day for almost 2 years even after I got a new rebound BF when I broke up with the guy I lived with.  Still it was for the best.  My only regret is not doing it sooner but then maybe I would not have met my husband.  

[S2B]

If you two don’t have the common goal of marriage and you prioritize it - then it may be best to end it knowing you should never need to force anyone to marry you.

Then also suggest selling the house so you can move forward with a clean break.

[Els]

OP, the crux of it is that no matter what anyone tells you about their own personal beliefs re: marriage (or not marrying), at the end of the day you are entitled to choose whether or not you want it for yourself. If you decide that you do want it, it's a completely valid decision, and you shouldn't let people talk you out of it. It's also valid for him to not want it for himself, but he shouldn't string you along - he needs to be honest with you about this.

There are plenty of men your age out there who DO want marriage - the 30+ age range is the most common age of marriage in today's world. You'll almost certainly find someone who wants the same things as you do, but that would involve leaving this person first.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Els

[Acacia98]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:08 AM, Lotsgoingon said:

This guy took two years to say "I love you." Why do I know that he is emotionally not the most nurturing and affirming partner on the planet?

OP, getting married doesn't solve anything--he's still going to be distant. 

I agree.

[Whodatdog]

You're feelings on wanting to get married are no less important than his not wanting to get married. At this point its simply a matter of incompatibility, and on this issue its difficult to compromise. If he saw marriage in his future, he would have done it long ago. Theres just simply people who dont want to get married. And there are people that do. You just need to decide whats more important to you at this point in your life. Id decide rather quickly, as the clock is ticking.

[heavenonearth]

Some people don't want to get married. I don't want to get married either.

It does not mean I have no commitment to my partner. You guys own a house together, that is a much bigger deal, in my opinion, than a piece of paper.

Sometimes, people who really love their freedom or who have some commitment issues from their past really do not like the idea of marriage. As I said, I am one of them.

Being someone's wife terrifies me. I do not find the idea romantic at all, I find it entirely suffocating. And that does not mean I do not love my boyfriend or am not committed to him in other ways. I do not want to be alone nor do I want to be with anyone else. But getting married to him? No, thanks.

So I think maybe your partner really just has problems with showing his emotions, is more avoidant and a bit more reserved, but that does not mean he is not entirely committed to being with you. The problem I see is more that he seems to be incapable of implementing some changes. People should not stop growing when in a relationship, you gotta always try to become a better version of yourself, a better partner. He seems to not be doing that.

We hear your side of the story. Is he content? Happy in the relationship? How does he feel about everything? Does he think there could be improvements in the relationship or is he just content with how things are? I feel you could either benefit from some mediation, so your needs will be met long-term, or this relationship just has run its course.

Sometimes people just become used to one another but stop growing together.

 

[Weezy1973]

You essentially are married. Common-law is in every way legally the same as being married in Canada. 
 

The big issue in your relationship however is the lack of communication on these difficult topics. Likely some conflict avoidance on both sides. Trust me, the much bigger issue should be kids. Have you discussed having children? When you lull start your family etc.? It’s hard to think about, but if you want kids, your clock is ticking. If he’s indecisive, you might want to think about freezing your eggs.

[Lauriebell82]

Seems like he is ambivalent about marriage but likes the relationship and is comfortable with where things are right now. Not everyone feels a strong need to make things official. I think at this point you may have to make a decision as to which is more important...continuing a relationship with your boyfriend or pursuing marriage. You just (unfortunately) may not be able to have both within the context of THIS relationship. Sad after 14 years, but there is really no right or wrong answer here. If he was the only one for you then marriage or not, you'd be staying. If you don't feel that way then there isn't anything wrong with that either! Not everyone can stay with someone who does't want the same thing they do (and be okay with that). You almost just have to look at it like are you still getting all your RELATIONSHIP needs met in general? And take the marriage part out of it. Because in reality, marriage is just a title that you are putting on your already existing relationship of 14 years. Hell, most marriages don't last 14 years. So that's something to look at for sure! 

If you decide that marriage is a higher priority for you however, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You entitled to be in a relationship that works for you! 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Lauriebell82

[BaileyB]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:18 AM, yimby63 said:

I have brought up my sadness that it still hasn't happened and his response was that a wedding is a stupid waste of money.

This is your answer. He doesn’t want the wedding.

My question is - what do you want? You obviously want the wedding/marriage. Do you want children? Does he wants children? I ask only because he doesn’t sound like the type who wants to get married and raise a family. Kids are very expensive.   So, if these are things that are important to you - you have a very difficult decision to make. 

 

On 9/7/2023 at 6:35 AM, yimby63 said:

in your situation, did you both agree to not get married, or is one person (like in my situation) more open to the possibility? how did you agree to not get married? 

I’m not going to speak for Basil, but I think when it comes to the life altering decisions like getting married or having children - one must always default to the negative. Marriage and having children is not going to work if people feel that they have been forced into making a decision that they do not want. There is no happiness to be found there. It’s far better to separate and find someone who had the same goals in life…

[BaileyB]

On 9/17/2023 at 1:54 PM, heavenonearth said:

Some people don't want to get married. I don't want to get married either.

It does not mean I have no commitment to my partner. You guys own a house together, that is a much bigger deal, in my opinion, than a piece of paper.

Sometimes, people who really love their freedom or who have some commitment issues from their past really do not like the idea of marriage. As I said, I am one of them.

Being someone's wife terrifies me. I do not find the idea romantic at all, I find it entirely suffocating.

This could have been said by my best friend’s first serious boyfriend. They dated for five years - she tried for five years to convince him that he wanted to get married and have children. He felt exactly as you do.

She finally found the strength to end the relationship and two years later - she was married and expecting her first child. They are now happily married for 15 years with two children. And her first boyfriend, is happily living with his girlfriend and he has no children.

Neither of you are wrong for feeling the way that you do or wanting what you want OP. But, you are incompatible and that means that you feeling have to have. Hard talk with yourself about what you really want and find the courage to go out and find it. 

[Wiseman2]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:43 PM, yimby63 said:

. we equally own our home together canadian common law affords more rights.

If you are in a common law jurisdiction and live together this long, would you have to divorce if you left? It seems like you need legal advice as to what constitutes "marriage" in your jurisdiction.

If you just want a ceremony/party, and he thinks it's a waste of money, why not have a fun honeymoon like trip instead that you can both enjoy?

[stillafool]

13 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

If you just want a ceremony/party, and he thinks it's a waste of money, why not have a fun honeymoon like trip instead that you can both enjoy?

IDK, I think she really wants to hold out for a wedding.  I've asked her several times why a wedding is so important if that is the only reason he won't marry her, but she won't answer.

[Gaeta]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:48 PM, yimby63 said:

for me, the benefit of marriage is celebrating love, the union, and sharing that with friends and family, as well as having a special day that represents our union, along with sealing a trust between two individuals in that commitment

I feel you think a wedding will magically bring all that to you, it won't. You said you were in love with him but I don't read there is much <love> from him. When we love someone we don't want to put them in a difficult situation so we make that call to the dental insurance, we take life insurance on each other, we plan a safety net for the one we love. Your partner does not do that for you. You sound like someone capable of deep love and commitment, he doesn't sound like that at all. Yes the 2 years to say he loves you was a red flag. 

Please open your eyes, You don't have that trust & love to celebrate in a wedding in frot of friends and family. 

I would not leave a man because he doesn't want to get married IF he committed to me with a good will & insurance protecting me in case of death. But your guy won't even give you that. Is that love?

I think you need to look at this relationship for what it is. Marriage will not fix what's missing. 

 

 

[Bettylou]

I relate to you so much OP.     I was in an on/off relationship with my ex for nearly 15 years and he was the same.  Whenever I bought up about getting engaged, he would immediately shut it down or reply "One day but for now I'm happy with how we are now."     Yes just like you, we bought a house together and we very much like any other couple but no ring.   One day I saw a social media post of a friend who had only been dating her now husband for a year and he proposed.   It came to ahead and I confronted him and like you OP, he said "We bought a house together it is a big commitment for us, we don't need to get married."    Then one day during our 12 year together he got me a ring.  He did the big proposal and it should have been the happiest time but reality was it was a "Shut up" ring.  He came up with the date of the wedding being two years from the proposal date.   Everyone questioned why so long and he couldn't give a direct answer.  

Long story short, I left him for a very serious reason.   He confessed that he didn't want to marry me at all and he felt pressured to go through with it.   Though I did hear he got married eight months after I left him to someone else.

OP I think you need to have a long time to reflect and think of you relationship and future.  By the sounds of it, he most likely will not go through with proposing.  At the end of the day do you want to just be in a long term partnership where you will resent that he will never go the next level and that you have wasted many precious years on the relationship that is going no where or perhaps it is now time you think of yourself, self care etc.    I think you deserve someone that will treat you with love and put you and your relationship first.    

[S2B]

Set a timeline to leave- I wouldn’t give him another year - seeing as his goals don’t align with yours.

when that deadline comes and he hasn’t married you - put the house on the market/split the money - and start building your own life.

you can only count on him dragging his feet- and you should never need to beg someone to marry you!!!

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, Bettylou said:

Long story short, I left him for a very serious reason.   He confessed that he didn't want to marry me at all and he felt pressured to go through with it.   Though I did hear he got married eight months after I left him to someone else.

This^  I can't tell you the number of women I've seen this happen to after wasting years of their life waiting on one particular man to marry them.  OP, if you want to call his bluff, forget about some wedding and propose to him and tell him you two can go to the court house and get married.   Have a party to celebrate.  If he refuses that offer he never had any intentions of marrying you.

[yimby63]

On 10/1/2023 at 12:59 PM, S2B said:

Set a timeline to leave- I wouldn’t give him another year - seeing as his goals don’t align with yours.

when that deadline comes and he hasn’t married you - put the house on the market/split the money - and start building your own life.

you can only count on him dragging his feet- and you should never need to beg someone to marry you!!!

we are at a point where we should be putting cash in to pay down the principle but im currently hesitant to do so. and yea, i do not want to beg! i told him this... 

[d0nnivain]

At this point you are even pulling back on the financial commitments you made to each other.  You don't have to beg.  You also don't have to walk away without a word.   It's time for a hard bottom line talk.  Tell him you love him & want to be married.  Ask what he wants.  Ask about his time line.  If you don't get clear answers you can live with, then you walk with your head held high knowing you tried.  Sitting there, seething & wasting more time isn't the answer.  

[yimby63]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:52 AM, Bettylou said:

I relate to you so much OP.     I was in an on/off relationship with my ex for nearly 15 years and he was the same.  Whenever I bought up about getting engaged, he would immediately shut it down or reply "One day but for now I'm happy with how we are now."     Yes just like you, we bought a house together and we very much like any other couple but no ring.   One day I saw a social media post of a friend who had only been dating her now husband for a year and he proposed.   It came to ahead and I confronted him and like you OP, he said "We bought a house together it is a big commitment for us, we don't need to get married."    Then one day during our 12 year together he got me a ring.  He did the big proposal and it should have been the happiest time but reality was it was a "Shut up" ring.  He came up with the date of the wedding being two years from the proposal date.   Everyone questioned why so long and he couldn't give a direct answer.  

Long story short, I left him for a very serious reason.   He confessed that he didn't want to marry me at all and he felt pressured to go through with it.   Though I did hear he got married eight months after I left him to someone else.

OP I think you need to have a long time to reflect and think of you relationship and future.  By the sounds of it, he most likely will not go through with proposing.  At the end of the day do you want to just be in a long term partnership where you will resent that he will never go the next level and that you have wasted many precious years on the relationship that is going no where or perhaps it is now time you think of yourself, self care etc.    I think you deserve someone that will treat you with love and put you and your relationship first.    

while a house IS a big commitment, us as women committed to it too! we're paying half the bills, put in down payment etc.

in your situation, how did you feel it was a shut up ring? was it because you begged for it? did it come from him only or out of pressure? i get the confession came later - but really - i've already had that confession from him that he thinks marriage is stupid, a waste of time and money.

lastly - it absolutely GUTS me that these men then pick up and move on and finally marry the first woman that looks their way after. 

my only thought is that it must be a control thing, and they probably feel out of control in these longer term relationships where the female partner is their equal. 

how is your life like right now? did you end up moving on with someone else? if i sold my place, i would 100% have to leave my city, it is completely unaffordable solo. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, yimby63 said:

it absolutely GUTS me that these men then pick up and move on and finally marry the first woman that looks their way after. 

my only thought is that it must be a control thing, and they probably feel out of control in these longer term relationships where the female partner is their equal. 

No, it's actually that they found someone more compatible.  There's a reason he doesn't want to marry you; but he won't reveal it.  My husband's friend did this to his girlfriend of 9 years.  They lived together and she wanted to marry and start a family.  He said he didn't believe in marriage.  Finally, she left and shortly after he met another girl and fell head over heels in love.  My husband asked him why he's ready to marry this girl but not the other one?  He said he felt something was off about their relationship and he just couldn't see her as his wife; but would always have love in his heart for her because she's a good person.  He said with the new girl everything just jelled and he couldn't see himself without her.  Don't waste your time if you have to beg him to marry you.  This is just one case; but I know many that have happened this way.

Edited October 3, 2023 by stillafool