How can a guy be attractive to women?

[flaxcapacitor]

Sorry for the really stupid and juvenile question. I'm 40 years old and have never had a woman be attracted to me before. I'm pretty lonely and all. I don't really know what I can do to improve my chances. I'm pretty ugly and have no charisma so if I'm honest my instinct is to say I just don't have what it takes to be in a relationship, but friends think I should think better of myself. I'm keen to do that but how does an ugly guy with no personality make himself attractive?

Sorry. This isn't really a question. I'm just a bit sad and exasperated that I'm not allowed to just accept that I don't have any attractive qualities.

[MsJayne]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  One of my favourite boyfriends was a short, scrawny, ugly redhead. He had the best sense of humour and had confidence in spades, and those were the things that made him popular with girls. Self-deprecation and self-pity are unattractive to women, /so maybe some counselling to help with your confidence and self-esteem might help? 

Edited September 9, 2023 by MsJayne
Left something out.

[flaxcapacitor]

Just now, MsJayne said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  One of my favourite boyfriends was a short, scrawny, ugly redhead. He had the best sense of humour and had confidence in spades, and those were the things that made him popular with girls. 

That's nice.

I'm sorry I'm just whining.

What I could really do with help with is just accepting what I am. It's not that easy sadly

[flaxcapacitor]

I'm sorry, that was such a passive aggressive reply

[Goodguy05]

31 minutes ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Sorry for the really stupid and juvenile question. I'm 40 years old and have never had a woman be attracted to me before. I'm pretty lonely and all. I don't really know what I can do to improve my chances. I'm pretty ugly and have no charisma so if I'm honest my instinct is to say I just don't have what it takes to be in a relationship, but friends think I should think better of myself. I'm keen to do that but how does an ugly guy with no personality make himself attractive?

Sorry. This isn't really a question. I'm just a bit sad and exasperated that I'm not allowed to just accept that I don't have any attractive qualities.

Get yourself in good shape that's a start you'll look and feel better...I've never seen an ugly fit person ☺️

[glows]

If I’m understanding this correctly you want a safe space to feel bad about yourself and think of yourself as unattractive? Want to know something funny - we all have ugly days. Even the most good looking person will eventually puke, feel bloated, get a pimple popper episode, feel bad about something going on, mental health not on point, have bad hair day or gain weight. So what. Tell yourself it’s ok not to be perfect and defining who is attractive is extremely subjective. 

And it is also ok to feel like total crap. 

[flaxcapacitor]

13 minutes ago, glows said:

If I’m understanding this correctly you want a safe space to feel bad about yourself and think of yourself as unattractive? Want to know something funny - we all have ugly days. Even the most good looking person will eventually puke, feel bloated, get a pimple popper episode, feel bad about something going on, mental health not on point, have bad hair day or gain weight. So what. Tell yourself it’s ok not to be perfect and defining who is attractive is extremely subjective. 

And it is also ok to feel like total crap. 

Thanks...yeah I feel like that. But also I just know I need to be at peace with who I am, even if who I am is a person who isn't good enough to ever be in a relationship.

[glows]

8 minutes ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Thanks...yeah I feel like that. But also I just know I need to be at peace with who I am, even if who I am is a person who isn't good enough to ever be in a relationship.

That’s tough if you’ve not been in a relationship because it feels like a stone unturned and like a loss. Am I understanding that right? All I wanted so badly in my 20s and 30s was for someone to ride into the sunset with and be my forever person so I get it. It’s such a painfully strong urge, that desire to feel loved and love in return. My self esteem was so low too in those years. I just worked and worked and every relationship was so wrong.

 

[Alpacalia]

Don't worry, you don't have to accept that you don't have any attractive qualities.

Even if you think you're ugly and have no charisma, there are still plenty of things that make us attractive to others.

My younger brother felt that way for the longest time, never dated or had a relationship, and recently he has been making connections and going out on dates. What he did was focus on the things that he does well and find ways to hone his skills, even if they are unconventional. He also worked on his confidence and becoming comfortable in social situations. I honestly don't know why he felt this way because his intelligence is through the roof and he has always been a very kind person and he has great conversational skills.

There are times when I feel so invisible but then I just pop on my headphones and listen to one of my favorite speakers, Eckhart Tolle, and all of a sudden I am transported to a world that is warm, inviting, and filled with possibilities. Whatever it is that helps you to feel more confident and inspired, I highly recommend it. 

Everyone says be yourself but I think that's pretty cliche' so what I mean is focus on the things that make you, you. Embrace them, love them, and be thankful.

Whether it's your intelligence, sense of humor, or conversational skills.

Sure, you can stay stuck in a perpetual cycle of comparing yourself to others and self-loathing because it's comfy and you know it.

[Weezy1973]

13 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

Thanks...yeah I feel like that. But also I just know I need to be at peace with who I am, even if who I am is a person who isn't good enough to ever be in a relationship.

Being on the ugly side of attractiveness has literally nothing to do with being good enough to be in a relationship. That’s the mindset I’d try to change. Folks in long term relationships are generally equal in terms of attractiveness, so as long as that works for you, you’ll be fine. 
 

But you need to break out of the mindset that you’re not good enough. 

[Gaeta]

14 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

if who I am is a person who isn't good enough to ever be in a relationship.

Have you seek therapy to understand where that feeling comes from? I will risk saying it often comes from childhood. It won't go away magically, you need to address this.

[MsJayne]

19 hours ago, flaxcapacitor said:

That's nice.

I'm sorry I'm just whining.

What I could really do with help with is just accepting what I am. It's not that easy sadly

OK, so, when you say "what I am", what exactly are you talking about? Have you got some type of physical affliction that makes other people look twice at you? Like, for example, Turia Pitt, the lady who lives with horrific burns scarring. Or is it to do with self-perception? 

[Lotsgoingon]

I definitely recommend therapy. 

Sounds to me like you are socially isolated and not just with women. My worry is that you probably don't have many friends or acquaintances and I wonder if you feel isolated from coworkers if you're working.

The building blocks for socializing with women are built by first socializing with other people, including coworkers. But you don't have to figure this out by yourself. Go to a therapist for this. 

I'm pretty extroverted, and still one of the best things I did for myself was therapy with a woman who showed me all the ways I was miscommunicating (or not communicating at all) with people. 

[throwaway7865432]

I don't know if you are actually ugly but ugly people get in relationships with each other all the time.

Edited September 9, 2023 by throwaway7865432

[basil67]

You've said in previous threads that you have a good friendship circle. That you have friends both male and female.  And apparently some of those female friends like you enough to help you get a makeover.   The fact that you have friends says that you have a personality.....so this proves your statement incorrect.   And for what it's worth, "charisma" is not a common trait.  Most of us aren't charismatic.

Anyway, that your female friends have offered to help you get a makeover suggests that your appearance could use some help.  Thing is, for a lot of men and women...they don't need a supermodel, but they do want a partner who does the best they can with what they've got.  I'm not talking about a lot of hard work, but at least have fashionable clothes and new haircut.

As you're so miserable, why haven't you taken them up on the offer?  Do you think the offer still stands?   When's the last time you bought a new outfit - preferably with a bit of styling help from the sales assistant?

Sitting and complaining, but not doing anything about it achieves nothing.  And honestly, this type of attitude is probably one of the biggest turn offs of all

Edited September 9, 2023 by basil67

[Foxhall]

Ive probably improved at this area at around your age- that still leaves me with a few regrets about missing out on certain things- having a family, not marrying the love of my life from a number of  years ago and so on,

but better late than never as they say

be grateful for what you have and make the best of what you have-

I realised I enjoyed talking to women in recent years- if the woman has a certain vulnerability has had a few knocks along the way then it is quite possible they will be easier to talk too ,

Ive met a number of interesting women in different random ways - I dont think online is the best way, but it may be as good as any for a shyer guy, as you describe yourself,

get yourself in situations where you have the chance to have one on one encounters- be interested in telling your story and be interested in hearing theirs- be chilled about it all and not anxious,

and six months/ a year down the line you will meet someone suitable. (even a pretty younger one!)

 

[Nkaye]

The first thing you need to do is stop being so hard on yourself. Everyone has something to offer and that includes you. 

You mentioned your friends think you should feel better about yourself so listen to them...after all they are your friends and they see you are worth it so why wouldn't other people. 

We all go through hard times, thoughts of not being good enough etc etc but that doesn't mean you can't go on dates and find someone you enjoy spending your time with. 

If there is something you have an interest in then that would be a great start, use it as a talking point, a way to find like minded women.

The other thing is, spend more time listening and asking questions about the people you meet....it works great. 

 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

On 9/9/2023 at 6:21 PM, basil67 said:

 your female friends have offered to help you get a makeover suggests that your appearance could use some help ...

As you're so miserable, why haven't you taken them up on the offer?  Do you think the offer still stands?   When's the last time you bought a new outfit - preferably with a bit of styling help from the sales assistant?

Sitting and complaining, but not doing anything about it achieves nothing.  And honestly, this type of attitude is probably one of the biggest turn offs of all

Oh my, the above statement is gold. Why haven't you followed through with the guidance of your women friends?! I know guys who are quite socially adept who take tips and suggestions from women friends and sisters and coworkers all the time! It's funny: I knew a prominent local politician, who before he made any appearance in front of a camera, would go to one of his assistants, and run his position-argument by them and have them pick out his tie and all the rest. 

I have a hunch about why you have not taken up the lovely offer by your women friends. Your resistance may be tied to depression. Depression (which I know quite well and which thankfully I have under remission right now) is all about convincing you to do nothing. Depression wants to say "I will never fit in. It's all a waste of time. It's all fake." And then when someone comes to you and say, "hey I can help you feel better," depression says "Oh, no. No. No. No!"

Get yourself to therapy my friend. And take up the offer of those women buddies. Get that depression treated. 

 

[flaxcapacitor]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:21 PM, basil67 said:

You've said in previous threads that you have a good friendship circle. That you have friends both male and female.  And apparently some of those female friends like you enough to help you get a makeover.   The fact that you have friends says that you have a personality.....so this proves your statement incorrect.   And for what it's worth, "charisma" is not a common trait.  Most of us aren't charismatic.

Anyway, that your female friends have offered to help you get a makeover suggests that your appearance could use some help.  Thing is, for a lot of men and women...they don't need a supermodel, but they do want a partner who does the best they can with what they've got.  I'm not talking about a lot of hard work, but at least have fashionable clothes and new haircut.

As you're so miserable, why haven't you taken them up on the offer?  Do you think the offer still stands?   When's the last time you bought a new outfit - preferably with a bit of styling help from the sales assistant?

Sitting and complaining, but not doing anything about it achieves nothing.  And honestly, this type of attitude is probably one of the biggest turn offs of all

 

12 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Oh my, the above statement is gold. Why haven't you followed through with the guidance of your women friends?! I know guys who are quite socially adept who take tips and suggestions from women friends and sisters and coworkers all the time! It's funny: I knew a prominent local politician, who before he made any appearance in front of a camera, would go to one of his assistants, and run his position-argument by them and have them pick out his tie and all the rest. 

I have a hunch about why you have not taken up the lovely offer by your women friends. Your resistance may be tied to depression. Depression (which I know quite well and which thankfully I have under remission right now) is all about convincing you to do nothing. Depression wants to say "I will never fit in. It's all a waste of time. It's all fake." And then when someone comes to you and say, "hey I can help you feel better," depression says "Oh, no. No. No. No!"

Get yourself to therapy my friend. And take up the offer of those women buddies. Get that depression treated. 

 

Well that was a while ago and since then the offers haven't come up again. My friends who made those offers are going through troubles of their own, in more than one instance with abusive exes and I'm sure the last thing they need right now is some guy saying 'remember a few months ago when you said you'd help me be more attractive...' especially if they're currently through thinking about relationships and what makes men seem attractive.

Maybe it's a self-worth issue why I don't feel entitled to butt into someone else's life to ask them to help me with my problems, I'm due to start attending a self-compassion focussed group therapy so maybe it's possible that this is just an attitude problem on my part but right now I can't bring myself to see asking for help from someone with so much on their own plate as anything other than wildly inappropriate and poor timing.

I do to be honest put a lot of effort into my appearance. I've had an interest in fashion for a long time. It can get me down often as well though too, it's difficult for someone of my body shape to find nice clothes and while shopping for clothes can be very enjoyable, it can also be a soul-destroying and demoralising experience and fruitless as I often come away with nothing at all that I like and that also fits. I have been spending a lot on clothes recently though as if I do find something good I feel like I owe it to myself to take the punt on it, never know how long I'll be waiting for the next opportunity.

I doubt if my sense of style is going to be to everyone's taste, most men prefer classic and understated looks whereas I prefer playing mix and match with colour, but then comments from people that I should dress down more and adopt one of the five generic male haircuts are usually from men while compliments on my style usually come from women, so not sure if changing that would help I'm not sure if I'd want to be a less authentic version of myself.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 9/9/2023 at 9:20 PM, MsJayne said:

OK, so, when you say "what I am", what exactly are you talking about? Have you got some type of physical affliction that makes other people look twice at you? Like, for example, Turia Pitt, the lady who lives with horrific burns scarring. Or is it to do with self-perception? 

no, nothing specific, and I wouldn't want to compare myself to someone who has to deal with something really life-affecting. It's more just an accumulation of lots of little things... almost every part of me is unattractive. I get unkind comments about how I look from time to time, including from the only woman I've ever been in a relationship with (it was more a sham than a genuine relationship) and when I was a teenager I was bullied relentlessly for being ugly (and also for having a speech impediment) and it seemed like the only thing I was good for was for laughing at how unfortunate I looked.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 9/9/2023 at 7:01 PM, Gaeta said:

Have you seek therapy to understand where that feeling comes from? I will risk saying it often comes from childhood. It won't go away magically, you need to address this.

I am due to start a group therapy on self-compassion... maybe that will change how I view myself, though I'm not sure that how I view myself is all that wrong it is certainly very negative and even if I manage to get an unwarranted sense of high self-worth I could at least feel better.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 9/9/2023 at 4:53 AM, glows said:

That’s tough if you’ve not been in a relationship because it feels like a stone unturned and like a loss. Am I understanding that right? All I wanted so badly in my 20s and 30s was for someone to ride into the sunset with and be my forever person so I get it. It’s such a painfully strong urge, that desire to feel loved and love in return. My self esteem was so low too in those years. I just worked and worked and every relationship was so wrong.

 

Well I was in a relationship once upon a time (back in my late twenties) but it was borderline psychologically abusive, left me with PTSD and having to start over again at life and career and was with a woman who, once I was locked into the relationship made it pretty clear how boring and unattractive I actually was to her. She didn't want me, she just wanted a place to live and moved on as soon as a better guy came along.

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, flaxcapacitor said:

I am due to start a group therapy on self-compassion... maybe that will change how I view myself, though I'm not sure that how I view myself is all that wrong it is certainly very negative and even if I manage to get an unwarranted sense of high self-worth I could at least feel better.

This is a great start. As well as following the advice of your friends as far as appearance. Another good way to avoid negativity is to steer clear of manosphere sites such as incels, mgtow, etc. These hate groups promote distorted and self-defeating thinking patterns. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Wiseman2

[flaxcapacitor]

I'm relieved the replies have been very compassionate. I was feeling very emotional when I posted this and then regretted it, expecting to be shot down. I know I must come across as an incel to many people and many other red flags besides that make me seem narcissistic and sociopathic and I don't really expect to get the benefit of the doubt from randomers on the internet who must be tired of 'nice guys' moaning about why women don't like them.

In truth I don't really expect women to be attracted to me, I don't think I've done anything in my life that is worthy of attraction and while I can come across very bitter, especially when I hit rock bottom and feel desperate to let my feelings out somewhere, I don't blame women or think I'm entitled to anything. Just bitter I guess at the hand I've been dealt, and that I have to exist in a world where attraction, whether that be relationships, sex, flirting, whatever or just believing that you'll eventually meet someone, is the most normal thing in the world.

[flaxcapacitor]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:59 AM, Nkaye said:

The first thing you need to do is stop being so hard on yourself. Everyone has something to offer and that includes you. 

You mentioned your friends think you should feel better about yourself so listen to them...after all they are your friends and they see you are worth it so why wouldn't other people. 

We all go through hard times, thoughts of not being good enough etc etc but that doesn't mean you can't go on dates and find someone you enjoy spending your time with. 

If there is something you have an interest in then that would be a great start, use it as a talking point, a way to find like minded women.

The other thing is, spend more time listening and asking questions about the people you meet....it works great. 

 

 

My friends do from time to time try and convince me that I am good enough to maybe find love one day. I tend to keep my feelings on it under wraps, I don't want to be a whiner or it be obvious... but then I probably do seem a bit awkward when conversation turns to relationships, worried someone will ask me a question I can't answer, and they sense this and don't really include me in those conversations, unless they really want to make me talk about my lack of success with relationships. However the only positive thing they can ever think to say about me is that I'm 'nice'. I know they think that, that's why they're my friends but I'm not so stupid that I think that 'nice' alone is enough to say I'm good enough to be in a relationship. Nice is the bare minimum women should expect and women also deserve interesting conversations, fun times, to feel sexually aroused etc and none of these are things I can provide.